Statement from Mark Coyle

[nukedwedges]

Coyle is in a tough spot. He has people like a lot of folks on this board who love Claeys. However, the recent events of the last month have many in this state what a change in leadership. Interesting to see which way he goes.

Agreed, Kaler and Coyle must go.....


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[Bob_Loblaw]

So Kaler and Coyle are going to get fired for taking a conservative approach to a group of players who ran a train on a girl consenting or non-consenting?

I agree that communication seemed poor, and that's a problem. Outside of some of the players and some die hard fans, nearly everyone thinks Kaler and Coyle took the right approach. Whether what they did was legal or illegal, it was morally disgusting.

Zero chance either get fired for taking a stance against that.

Unfortunately, this is true. There is a weird fascist sect of the populous that wants these people to be punished, even if the sex was consensual.

As far as Kaler, I think anyone with a relatively nuanced understanding of the issues can see where he messed up. He could have taken the EXACT same course of action without putting the U in a tough spot down the road.

(1) He could have taken the recommendations and suspended the players.

(2) He shouldn't have said that Claeys was part of the decision to suspend the players (that appears to be an outright lie). He would have actually earned more points and it would have made more sense for him to say "This situation is bigger than football. We notified Coach Claeys about the decision". There was no reason to lie.

(3) Post-boycott, he should NOT have said that the players changed their minds after reading the report. Again, that does not appear to be true. This really throws the players who were boycotting under the bus. It throws Coach Claeys under the bus. It taints the "fair process" of the EoAA. He should have just said "I'm sure a lot of factors played into their decision. I am glad they changed their mind."

(4) He should never have referred to her as a victim of sexual assault. That's a colossal error. Whether he knows it or not, that's the same as calling them rapists. There is still a "fair" investigation going on. Can you imagine if the police report described a suspect as "the criminal"? It was a gigantic mistake.


Right when this thing broke, I said that Kaler is in an impossible situation. I would not have blamed him for suspending the players and taking an extremely conservative approach to these players. It was one of the reasons I initially blasted the Title IX offices, their recommendations are not mere recommendations, they really hold the University's feet to the fire (for better or worse). So I get it, Kaler had no choice. However, he has found a way to absolutely butcher this scenario. The U can't get rid of him real soon, for PR purposes, but I think he may be walking dead, especially after the litigations come through. He lied and said things he didn't have to say.

 

[I Want 2 Win]

Agreed, Kaler and Coyle must go.....


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I don't think you understand the point that you quoted...

 

[nukedwedges]

I don't think you understand the point that you quoted...

The point was that there needs to be a change in leadership....I agreed with that point. Sarcastically responded that Kaler and Coyle being so called "leaders" must go......


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[GopherinPhilly]

So Kaler and Coyle are going to get fired for taking a conservative approach to a group of players who ran a train on a girl consenting or non-consenting?

I agree that communication seemed poor, and that's a problem. Outside of some of the players and some die hard fans, nearly everyone thinks Kaler and Coyle took the right approach. Whether what they did was legal or illegal, it was morally disgusting.

Zero chance either get fired for taking a stance against that.

And this is the fraud that the media, some fans and Coyle & Kaler are perpetuating. They had the police report and knew that it was a gang bang with an allegation of assault and yet they still reinstated all the players, even while the TRO stuff was going on, the players who are now expelled were reinstated to full team activities.

Where was their indignation and righteousness when they let those young men back on the field with the knowledge that they gang banged one of the cheerleaders and that they let an underage recruit participate and drink so much that he got whiskey dick?

I don't buy it...this is CYA and nothing more.

 

[LakerFan]

Quote Originally Posted by hungan1 View Post
Be careful what you wish for.

A man saw a ball of gold in the sky;
He climbed for it,
And eventually he achieved it --
It was clay.

Now this is the strange part:
When the man went to the earth
And looked again,
Lo, there was the ball of gold.
Now this is the strange part:
It was a ball of gold.
Aye, by the heavens, it was a ball of gold.
Stephen Crane

+1

"The truth is like poetry-- And most people ****ing hate poetry," - Overheard in a Washington D.C. bar by Michael Lewis, author of The Big Short

 

[MrC]

And this is the fraud that the media, some fans and Coyle & Kaler are perpetuating. They had the police report and knew that it was a gang bang with an allegation of assault and yet they still reinstated all the players, even while the TRO stuff was going on, the players who are now expelled were reinstated to full team activities.

Where was their indignation and righteousness when they let those young men back on the field with the knowledge that they gang banged one of the cheerleaders and that they let an underage recruit participate and drink so much that he got whiskey dick?

I don't buy it...this is CYA and nothing more.

So the argument is that Coyle and Kaler should have permanently suspended or expelled the student athletes based on the police report.

Serious questions:

1) Did they have the power to do that? Could Coyle just permanently suspend the players based on his own judgement?

2) If so, what about all the indignant arguments against the EOAA process based on standards of proof, due process, fairness, etc. Is no process other than the AD's judgement somehow better?

 

[Winnipegopher]

And this is the fraud that the media, some fans and Coyle & Kaler are perpetuating. They had the police report and knew that it was a gang bang with an allegation of assault and yet they still reinstated all the players, even while the TRO stuff was going on, the players who are now expelled were reinstated to full team activities.

Where was their indignation and righteousness when they let those young men back on the field with the knowledge that they gang banged one of the cheerleaders and that they let an underage recruit participate and drink so much that he got whiskey dick?

I don't buy it...this is CYA and nothing more.

+1. Perfectly summarized.

 

[goldengophers]

And this is the fraud that the media, some fans and Coyle & Kaler are perpetuating. They had the police report and knew that it was a gang bang with an allegation of assault and yet they still reinstated all the players, even while the TRO stuff was going on, the players who are now expelled were reinstated to full team activities.

Where was their indignation and righteousness when they let those young men back on the field with the knowledge that they gang banged one of the cheerleaders and that they let an underage recruit participate and drink so much that he got whiskey dick?

I don't buy it...this is CYA and nothing more.

You mean to tell me you were indignant when the 10 players were playing?

 

[MaxyJR1]

Sincere questions: Are you arguing that no due process at all after the police did not press charges would have been better than the EOAA process? Would it be best if Coyle just arbitrarily suspended anyone who is ever suspected of a crime?

In many cases people are under restrictions or put on leave during investigations. That's all. I support due process, but also understand people restrict freedoms when they sign up for organizations.


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[GopherWeatherGuy]

And this is the fraud that the media, some fans and Coyle & Kaler are perpetuating. They had the police report and knew that it was a gang bang with an allegation of assault and yet they still reinstated all the players, even while the TRO stuff was going on, the players who are now expelled were reinstated to full team activities.

Where was their indignation and righteousness when they let those young men back on the field with the knowledge that they gang banged one of the cheerleaders and that they let an underage recruit participate and drink so much that he got whiskey dick?

I don't buy it...this is CYA and nothing more.

I think you make a fair point.

Maybe they believed the EOAA wouldn't come up with anything different than the police report did. The players had already served their suspensions while the investigation was ongoing, so they were allowed to play. Then when the EOAA came back with something different, they were left with no choice other than to suspend again.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

Sincere questions: Are you arguing that no due process at all after the police did not press charges would have been better than the EOAA process? Would it be best if Coyle just arbitrarily suspended anyone who is ever suspected of a crime?

Coyle can't have it both ways. He suspended the players during the police investigation and reinstated them after no charges were filed, even though there was still the TRO issue going on. Even without the EOAA report, the police report was made available to Coyle and it showed a gang bang with several players and an underage recruit.

Coyle can sit in his ivory tower and talk about the horrible situation and how misguided the boycott was, but when he had only part of the information he made a similar decision. Then when the EOAA report hit, he along with Kaler made the decision to suspend the 4 plus 6 more and refused to explain that to any of the players and provide any context.

So mixed signals, poor communication and an adversarial stance led to the players saying F U Mr Coyle and the U, you can't call us all rapists and suspend 10 (after clearing them just 6 weeks earlier) and you can't expect us to go to Cali and make the U millions while you treat us like crap.

And somehow the Coach saying that he supports his players rights to fight for what they think is fairness is the reason someone is going to be fired?

I remain steadfast in my belief that Kaler is fine (unless that TV interview gets him), Claeys should continue as our Coach with a huge lesson learned, 5 of the 10 players should be reinstated and the loss of the Bowl Game being their penalty and the other 5 are gone regardless of whether it is a suspension of expulsion, but the U should consider their case carefully and might find it easier to part ways in a cleaner way.

And Coyle should be fired for repeated mistakes, poor judgement, lack of control and for being a dbag. Just my opinion.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

I think you make a fair point.

Maybe they believed the EOAA wouldn't come up with anything different than the police report did. The players had already served their suspensions while the investigation was ongoing, so they were allowed to play. Then when the EOAA came back with something different, they were left with no choice other than to suspend again.

Yes I am aware of the process, but the EOAA report may have better detailed the goings ons by the players but it didn't change the core of what happened...gang bang, multiple players, underage recruit, claim of assault. Coyle muddied this and lost his moral high ground when he knew this and still reinstated the players.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

In many cases people are under restrictions or put on leave during investigations. That's all. I support due process, but also understand people restrict freedoms when they sign up for organizations.


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I actually kind of agree with this sentiment. The suspension of the players probably should have stayed until after the U investigated the case.

My issue is much more with who is doing the investigation and how it was/is done.

 

[goldengophers]

Yes I am aware of the process, but the EOAA report may have better detailed the goings ons by the players but it didn't change the core of what happened...gang bang, multiple players, underage recruit, claim of assault. Coyle muddied this and lost his moral high ground when he knew this and still reinstated the players.

Great but under your feigned argument Claeys needs to be fired regardless of Coyle. Coyle's firing is open to debate but Claeys' is not under the case you laid out. Having a recruit under you watch involved in what happened is not only morally repugnant but an automatic dismissal based on the standards you set forth.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

And somehow the Coach saying that he supports his players rights to fight for what they think is fairness is the reason someone is going to be fired?

Claeys wouldn't get fired for tweeting a poorly worded statement supporting his players.

Fair or not fair, Claeys and every coach in America are responsible for the off field conduct of their players, not ADs or presidents. If misconduct occurs, the players and coaches are held responsible first.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Outside of the gopherhole I don't think this is so true. Supposedly the petitions saying he should be fired is running about 2-1 over the petition saying he should be retained (not saying that is an accurate poll). Not every gopher fan is on this site. So no matter how prolific a poster is, they still only speak for themselves.

Is it possible that the whole controversy has helped Claeys case to continue as coach? Let me get this straight, a sexual assault scandal erupts, coach makes statement supporting players concern for due process, voila due process concerns = he is a good coach.

My guess is many of those who signed the petition are casual fans at best. Among the more die hard fans, my guess is it is pretty split on keeping/firing Claeys.

 

[Torres9]

If I'm the U, at this point, no one gets fired. Everyone (Kaler, Coyle, Claeys) has made mistakes and if I'm the board, I just leave Kaler and Coyle alone and extend Claeys. I really don't think the U wants to admit any more mistakes by firing some one because of how these rape allegations were handled. Imagine every news story about hiring X's replacement mentioning rape and 10 revenue sport players involved. No thanks.

My prediction, a couple players have their suspensions reduced to probation and we move on from this mess as quickly as possible.

 

[alchemy2u]

Guys, please check your facts before you base your whole argument on assumptions. The five players could not play home games earlier because they had a restraining order against them. They were not suspended from the team! The order was lifted and then they played in the home games, they were never suspended from team.... the only action that the U did to these players was the suspension for the bowl game, which was a result of the investigation.


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[alchemy2u]

Unfortunately, this is true. There is a weird fascist sect of the populous that wants these people to be punished, even if the sex was consensual.

As far as Kaler, I think anyone with a relatively nuanced understanding of the issues can see where he messed up. He could have taken the EXACT same course of action without putting the U in a tough spot down the road.

(1) He could have taken the recommendations and suspended the players.

(2) He shouldn't have said that Claeys was part of the decision to suspend the players (that appears to be an outright lie). He would have actually earned more points and it would have made more sense for him to say "This situation is bigger than football. We notified Coach Claeys about the decision". There was no reason to lie.

(3) Post-boycott, he should NOT have said that the players changed their minds after reading the report. Again, that does not appear to be true. This really throws the players who were boycotting under the bus. It throws Coach Claeys under the bus. It taints the "fair process" of the EoAA. He should have just said "I'm sure a lot of factors played into their decision. I am glad they changed their mind."

(4) He should never have referred to her as a victim of sexual assault. That's a colossal error. Whether he knows it or not, that's the same as calling them rapists. There is still a "fair" investigation going on. Can you imagine if the police report described a suspect as "the criminal"? It was a gigantic mistake.


Right when this thing broke, I said that Kaler is in an impossible situation. I would not have blamed him for suspending the players and taking an extremely conservative approach to these players. It was one of the reasons I initially blasted the Title IX offices, their recommendations are not mere recommendations, they really hold the University's feet to the fire (for better or worse). So I get it, Kaler had no choice. However, he has found a way to absolutely butcher this scenario. The U can't get rid of him real soon, for PR purposes, but I think he may be walking dead, especially after the litigations come through. He lied and said things he didn't have to say.

I agree with most of you points that Kaler has shown poor judgement in many cases.

You really weaken your argument by name calling and stereotyping people who you do not agree with as a "weird fascist sect of the populous" and using the assumption that all of the sex was consensual.


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[leadpipegopher]

Guys, please check your facts before you base your whole argument on assumptions. The five players could not play home games earlier because they had a restraining order against them. They were not suspended from the team! The order was lifted and then they played in the home games, they were never suspended from team.... the only action that the U did to these players was the suspension for the bowl game, which was a result of the investigation.


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Totally incorrect

 

[MNfootballfan]

Guys, please check your facts before you base your whole argument on assumptions. The five players could not play home games earlier because they had a restraining order against them. They were not suspended from the team! The order was lifted and then they played in the home games, they were never suspended from team.... the only action that the U did to these players was the suspension for the bowl game, which was a result of the investigation.


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I'm not doubting you because my memory is horrible, but I thought they were suspended, then suspension lifted, then hit with a restraining order? Anyone else remember the sequence of events? I might be wrong and have no problem being told I am wrong!

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Guys, please check your facts before you base your whole argument on assumptions. The five players could not play home games earlier because they had a restraining order against them. They were not suspended from the team! The order was lifted and then they played in the home games, they were never suspended from team.... the only action that the U did to these players was the suspension for the bowl game, which was a result of the investigation.


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They were suspended on like September 10th. They were reinstated on October 4th and the restraining orders were served in late October.

I know, it's completely illogical that she didn't ask for the restraining orders in September, but maybe an incident happened between September and late October that made her feel unsafe.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I'm not doubting you because my memory is horrible, but I thought they were suspended, then suspension lifted, then hit with a restraining order? Anyone else remember the sequence of events? I might be wrong and have no problem being told I am wrong!

You're right.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I'm not doubting you because my memory is horrible, but I thought they were suspended, then suspension lifted, then hit with a restraining order? Anyone else remember the sequence of events? I might be wrong and have no problem being told I am wrong!

This is correct. They were suspended while the police investigated. Once that was finished and there were no charges, they lifted the suspensions. Then came the restraining order.

 

[dpodoll68]

Guys, please check your facts before you base your whole argument on assumptions. The five players could not play home games earlier because they had a restraining order against them. They were not suspended from the team! The order was lifted and then they played in the home games, they were never suspended from team.... the only action that the U did to these players was the suspension for the bowl game, which was a result of the investigation.

You are the one who needs to check your facts. Claeys suspended Hardin, Buford, T. Johnson, and D. Johnson prior to the Indiana St. game on 9/10. It was announced the following Monday (9/12) that an MPD investigation was underway. When the Hennepin County Attorney's Office declined to bring charges and announced as such on 10/3, Claeys lifted the suspensions the following day. The restraining orders were implemented on 10/19 and 10/21, keeping players from playing in the Rutgers game on 10/22. The restraining orders were lifted on 10/24 (the following Monday) for Kiondre Thomas and for the other 6 on 11/2, prior to the Purdue game on 11/5.

 

[GopherBulldog]

So Kaler and Coyle are going to get fired for taking a conservative approach to a group of players who ran a train on a girl consenting or non-consenting?

I agree that communication seemed poor, and that's a problem. Outside of some of the players and some die hard fans, nearly everyone thinks Kaler and Coyle took the right approach. Whether what they did was legal or illegal, it was morally disgusting.

Zero chance either get fired for taking a stance against that.

Sadly, I believe you are correct. But if the University have good, smart people on the inside that understand organizational dynamics, Coyle and Kaler will get some serious blowback for how they have handled this issue. The public perception of the specific topic at hand is important, but the University is essentially a very large and complex corporation. The leaders of this entity set the internal culture and how employees relate to one another and succeed within its structure. What this situation has illustrated is that the most highly paid and public-facing leaders within the University operate in ways that lack clear communication, value personal PR spin over truth and transparency, are unwilling to take a strong position or support their people in difficult situations... I could go on. Essentially, an organization run with these type of leaders will eventually rot from the inside out. As someone who cares very much about the University, I hope that there are strong people in power willing to directly address these issues with both Kaler and Coyle.

 

[50PoundHead]

Sadly, I believe you are correct. But if the University have good, smart people on the inside that understand organizational dynamicsmics, Coyle and Kaler will get some serious blowback for how they have handled this issue. The public perception of the specific topic at hand is important, but the University is essentially a very large and complex corporation. The leaders of this entity set the internal culture and how employees relate to one another and succeed within its structure. What this situation has illustrated is that the most highly paid and public-facing leaders within the University operate in ways that lack clear communication, value personal PR spin over truth and transparency, are unwilling to take a strong position or support their people in difficult situations... I could go on. Essentially, an organization run with these type of leaders will eventually rot from the inside out. As someone who cares very much about the University, I hope that there are strong people in power willing to directly address these issues with both Kaler and Coyle.

Well said. No winners here. But in an era when social media and echo chambers of various sorts combine to muddy the situation, it is really incumbent for the principal actors to proceed carefully, yet decisively. I don't know who handles the crisis management at the U, but it appears there is no one in the administration (both athletically and for the university as a whole) in that role or they are giving some pretty lousy advice.

 

[Iceland12]

So Kaler and Coyle are going to get fired for taking a conservative approach to a group of Black mainly out of town players who ran a train on a White girl consenting or non-consenting?

I agree that communication seemed poor, and that's a problem. Outside of some of the players and some die hard fans, nearly everyone thinks Kaler and Coyle took the right approach. Whether what they did was legal or illegal, it was morally disgusting.

Zero chance either get fired for taking a stance against that.

That makes the statement more accurate.

Can't overestimate the percentage of people that react negatively to any story revolving around sex. Plenty of people who quite rightly respond to any assault on a woman too.

But race? That gives people a lot of consternation if it's mentioned. The Gopher Wrestling team ran a drug ring right on campus. Don't know if anybody was expelled but do know when the Coach was fired there was some outcry from the public and the story went away quickly.

Does anybody think the reaction to the story around here would have been the same if that drug ring was ran by black football players?

The answer should be no.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Sadly, I believe you are correct. But if the University have good, smart people on the inside that understand organizational dynamics, Coyle and Kaler will get some serious blowback for how they have handled this issue. The public perception of the specific topic at hand is important, but the University is essentially a very large and complex corporation. The leaders of this entity set the internal culture and how employees relate to one another and succeed within its structure. What this situation has illustrated is that the most highly paid and public-facing leaders within the University operate in ways that lack clear communication, value personal PR spin over truth and transparency, are unwilling to take a strong position or support their people in difficult situations... I could go on. Essentially, an organization run with these type of leaders will eventually rot from the inside out. As someone who cares very much about the University, I hope that there are strong people in power willing to directly address these issues with both Kaler and Coyle.

Completely agree. Also know from years in my profession that these people rarely change stripes until something major happens directly to them...like being let go.