So do we love PJ again?

[MNVCGUY]

We agree his seat isn’t hot for a few reasons but I think where you and some others disagree is on whether PJ would have achieved the nine wins if he played in the East division, for example, or played Wisconsin when they were good.

I think it’s pretty normal for sports fans to want to move on when things get stale or plateau at an average level or there is a perception of an inability to compete with top 20 teams, whatever the sport or level. This win should help change the narrative in a big way.

I honestly don't think our records in 2021 or 2022 would have been that different playing in the East or in the West. Winning the East would have been much harder than winning the West but finishing 6-3 or 5-4 with an East division schedule was not significantly harder then achieving that same mark in the West. Just means beating the Rutgers, Michigan State, Indiana and Marylands of the world, all programs we would stack up very well against most years.

 

[GO4INLALALAND]

I would love to hear PJ haters name a potential replacement that they believe can take a historically mediocre program, in a state and surrounding region that produces very few D-1 recruits, with a relatively small apathetic fan base, and turn it into a national power…life long Gopher fan and season ticket holder that loves the competitive program PJ has built that goes beyond just the w-l record.

This is so true. There just is no support for the U by the alumni like you have for many other universities, like Wis., USC, Penn State, etc. MN alumni just really don't care about the fb program. When I run into alumni here in LA, most of the time they don't even know how the team is doing. It's sad.

 

[denguegopher]

I am all in on PJ! I just hope that he doesn’t become really dumb or conservative between now and Saturday night. I may change my mind .

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

PJ'S not out of the doghouse until he beats Iowa and Wisconsin regularly.

PJ has beaten Wisconsin more than the last 4 head coaches combined.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

I honestly don't think our records in 2021 or 2022 would have been that different playing in the East or in the West. Winning the East would have been much harder than winning the West but finishing 6-3 or 5-4 with an East division schedule was not significantly harder then achieving that same mark in the West. Just means beating the Rutgers, Michigan State, Indiana and Marylands of the world, all programs we would stack up very well against most years.

Yep, you could be right the records and percentages might look the same. The bottom line is the 2024 team has turned a corner, looks competitive, got the run game going, got a screen game going, has a good QB, a good defense, and has a special playmaker in Koi. Most fans have gotta be pretty happy with the transformation we’re witnessing and be excited with the possibilities for the rest of the season.

 

[Some guy]

I honestly don't think our records in 2021 or 2022 would have been that different playing in the East or in the West. Winning the East would have been much harder than winning the West but finishing 6-3 or 5-4 with an East division schedule was not significantly harder then achieving that same mark in the West. Just means beating the Rutgers, Michigan State, Indiana and Marylands of the world, all programs we would stack up very well against most years.

The teams Minnesota played the least in the conference in the east west era were Indiana and Rutgers

 

[caliGopher]

I don’t. Do we get blown out of a lot of winnable games? Seems to me we win or are in position to win most of them against fairly equal or lesser opponents.

Do we lose a lot of winnable games because we aren't prepared or Fleck doesn't trust his team? Yes. 5 in the last two seasons but consistently in every season he's been coach we've failed to show up in games and even make an effort to win.

As for being close, showing up for less than 17 minutes vs. Iowa and Michigan really kills your chances to win.

Fleck likes to claim he's the king of the toos.

He's really the King of the IFs.

If his special teams wasn't a mess for going on 8 years and we can get a simple punt off against Michigan we win the game.

If we had continued down the offensive path from Q2 against Iowa we might have had a chance in that game.

The USC game was great.

I have zero faith, based on his track record of 7 full seasons and half of an 8th that we'll see a different coach and team for the next 6 games.

Maybe he finally has "changed his best," but he has not proven he's more than a mediocre coach that has the program exactly where it's been with more money and resources.

I'm not impressed by that, his continuous and inane sloganeering, and inability to actually take responsibility when the coaching has failed the team.

He's made it clear he doesn't care if anybody likes him or not.

The constant need of the Flecktites on the board that any small slight of our coach needs to be defended. That we, as fans in a message board must stand up and cheer for him simply because he entered the room is pathetic.

He's our coach. I've been consistent that I don't think he should be fired and don't believe he'll be fired even if I wanted it. I do believe the program is no better than the Mason and Kill/Claeys years.

Capable of more but not getting it done for different reasons. The net is the same results.

 

[Goldeng4]

This is so true. There just is no support for the U by the alumni like you have for many other universities, like Wis., USC, Penn State, etc. MN alumni just really don't care about the fb program. When I run into alumni here in LA, most of the time they don't even know how the team is doing. It's sad.

I currently live in Iowa City and years ago lived in Omaha. The passion the Hawkeye and Husker fans have for their fb teams is 10x vs. Gopher fans. We can blame that on the Vikings, Minnesota culture, etc. but whatever it is it sure doesn’t make PJ’s job any easier.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

I currently live in Iowa City and years ago lived in Omaha. The passion the Hawkeye and Husker fans have for their fb teams is 10x vs. Gopher fans. We can blame that on the Vikings, Minnesota culture, etc. but whatever it is it sure doesn’t make PJ’s job any easier.

Agreed, although IMO PJ has raised the level of Gopher love a lot in his time. It takes TIME, but after a miserable second half vs Iowa ... we still sold out the next home game for last weekend, stripe out looked great.

It's building, not sure it will ever be what you get in the middle of nowhere with nothing but one event type passion ... but it's building.

 

[btowngopher]

Do we lose a lot of winnable games because we aren't prepared or Fleck doesn't trust his team? Yes. 5 in the last two seasons but consistently in every season he's been coach we've failed to show up in games and even make an effort to win.

As for being close, showing up for less than 17 minutes vs. Iowa and Michigan really kills your chances to win.

Fleck likes to claim he's the king of the toos.

He's really the King of the IFs.

If his special teams wasn't a mess for going on 8 years and we can get a simple punt off against Michigan we win the game.

If we had continued down the offensive path from Q2 against Iowa we might have had a chance in that game.

The USC game was great.

I have zero faith, based on his track record of 7 full seasons and half of an 8th that we'll see a different coach and team for the next 6 games.

Maybe he finally has "changed his best," but he has not proven he's more than a mediocre coach that has the program exactly where it's been with more money and resources.

I'm not impressed by that, his continuous and inane sloganeering, and inability to actually take responsibility when the coaching has failed the team.

He's made it clear he doesn't care if anybody likes him or not.

The constant need of the Flecktites on the board that any small slight of our coach needs to be defended. That we, as fans in a message board must stand up and cheer for him simply because he entered the room is pathetic.

He's our coach. I've been consistent that I don't think he should be fired and don't believe he'll be fired even if I wanted it. I do believe the program is no better than the Mason and Kill/Claeys years.

Capable of more but not getting it done for different reasons. The net is the same results.

No? What five games are you claiming this happened in?

 

[Gopherchase]

I currently live in Iowa City and years ago lived in Omaha. The passion the Hawkeye and Husker fans have for their fb teams is 10x vs. Gopher fans. We can blame that on the Vikings, Minnesota culture, etc. but whatever it is it sure doesn’t make PJ’s job any easier.

Don’t know about you last sentence the heat of PJ compared to what those other two schools head coaches feel is nonexistent. There is good and bad in both

 

[caliGopher]

I honestly don't think our records in 2021 or 2022 would have been that different playing in the East or in the West. Winning the East would have been much harder than winning the West but finishing 6-3 or 5-4 with an East division schedule was not significantly harder then achieving that same mark in the West. Just means beating the Rutgers, Michigan State, Indiana and Marylands of the world, all programs we would stack up very well against most years.

For this exercise to work, we need to swap an East team to replace s in the west.

Michigan State or Indiana are the closest, and keeping Michigan State with Michigan, Indiana would move to the west that would be an imbalance n 2021, but basically a wash in 2022 based on their records that year.

Assuming we would have kept Iowa and Wisconsin as protected rivals, that means we would have replaced games with 4 of the following teams each year:

Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue, and Nebraska, Indiana.


2021
Because we played Indiana, our three crossover games give us a record of 2-1 against the west.
We played Ohio State and Maryland going 1-1 for a 3-2 record.

We mythically play Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, and Rutger's.

The FPI from 2021 Match-ups would be:

MN 9.1 (27) - Michigan 20.7 (4)
MN 9.1 (27) - Penn State 11.8 (17)
MN 9.1 - Michigan State 10.8 (19)
MN 9.1 - Rutgers -4.2 (86)

So that would project a 1-3 at worst, reasonable best case case 3-1 with Michigan being a likely loss, Rutgers a likely win and Michigan State and Penn State being favored in closer games (we beat WI ranked 13th).

So we'd have a best case 6-3 record, worst case 4-5, possible 5-4 record vs our actual 6-3 record.

2022
We went 1-1 vs WI and IA
We played Penn State, Michigan State and Rutgers going 2-1 so 3-2 in actual games.

We Mythically play Michigan, Ohio State, and Mayland

Per 2022 FPI:

MN 11.4 (21) - Ohio State 25.8 (3)
MN 11.4 (21) - Michigan 23.6 (4)
MN 11.4 (21) - Maryland 8.8 (31)

So likely 1-2, although possible 0-3 (similar distance between MN and MD as 2021 between PSI, MSU, and MD.

Brings us to 4-4 in conference. We were 2-2 with the four west teams we did play, so a 50/50 shot we'd have been 5-4 possibly 4-5, but most likely 5-4 which is exactly what we were.

The difference would have likely been 1-2 more losses in 2021 and as likely as not we'd have won the same number of games in 2022 when looking at this hypothetically.

 

[MNVCGUY]

For this exercise to work, we need to swap an East team to replace s in the west.

Michigan State or Indiana are the closest, and keeping Michigan State with Michigan, Indiana would move to the west that would be an imbalance n 2021, but basically a wash in 2022 based on their records that year.

Assuming we would have kept Iowa and Wisconsin as protected rivals, that means we would have replaced games with 4 of the following teams each year:

Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue, and Nebraska, Indiana.


2021
Because we played Indiana, our three crossover games give us a record of 2-1 against the west.
We played Ohio State and Maryland going 1-1 for a 3-2 record.

We mythically play Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, and Rutger's.

The FPI from 2021 Match-ups would be:

MN 9.1 (27) - Michigan 20.7 (4)
MN 9.1 (27) - Penn State 11.8 (17)
MN 9.1 - Michigan State 10.8 (19)
MN 9.1 - Rutgers -4.2 (86)

So that would project a 1-3 at worst, reasonable best case case 3-1 with Michigan being a likely loss, Rutgers a likely win and Michigan State and Penn State being favored in closer games (we beat WI ranked 13th).

So we'd have a best case 6-3 record, worst case 4-5, possible 5-4 record vs our actual 6-3 record.

2022
We went 1-1 vs WI and IA
We played Penn State, Michigan State and Rutgers going 2-1 so 3-2 in actual games.

We Mythically play Michigan, Ohio State, and Mayland

Per 2022 FPI:

MN 11.4 (21) - Ohio State 25.8 (3)
MN 11.4 (21) - Michigan 23.6 (4)
MN 11.4 (21) - Maryland 8.8 (31)

So likely 1-2, although possible 0-3 (similar distance between MN and MD as 2021 between PSI, MSU, and MD.

Brings us to 4-4 in conference. We were 2-2 with the four west teams we did play, so a 50/50 shot we'd have been 5-4 possibly 4-5, but most likely 5-4 which is exactly what we were.

The difference would have likely been 1-2 more losses in 2021 and as likely as not we'd have won the same number of games in 2022 when looking at this hypothetically.

So you're saying I'm.....correct????

You are really getting into the weeds on this one.

 

[swede2]

Yep, you could be right the records and percentages might look the same. The bottom line is the 2024 team has turned a corner, looks competitive, got the run game going, got a screen game going, has a good QB, a good defense, and has a special playmaker in Koi. Most fans have gotta be pretty happy with the transformation we’re witnessing and be excited with the possibilities for the rest of the season.

I would wait until the car actually enters to the turn to see if it's made the corner. Six quarters ago, this team ran into the fire hydrant before it new where the turn signal was. It's not as if PJ hasn't had a few marquee victories in his time here. He has, but history shows that there will be a return to the norm - ugly, ineffective offensive play calling and a team wholly unprepared for beatable opponents. You might well be proven correct and this team will finish the season winning more games than it loses, but chances are as good or greater that we'll all be left feeling Minnesota at Thanksgiving.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

*Caveats including the usuals that have indicted G5 teams in past: roster getting beat up more versus stronger opponents, maybe not able to spell starters as much. Knock on effects. But, it’s all purely hypothetical. PJ defeated a highly ranked blue blood this year which tilts the scales.

 

[caliGopher]

No? What five games are you claiming this happened in?

I'm not claiming anything:

2023
Northwestern - failed to show up forth fourth quarter and overtime
Illinois -- was unable to stop the backup QB who came in on 4th down and long on their own 15
Purdue -- completely unprepared to face a then 2-7 Purdue squad needing only one win to become bowl eligible allowing the total collapse of the Illinois last minute cost us two games.

2024
Iowa - were engaged for the 2nd quarter. 2nd half - blown out. PJ "I guarantee it won't happen again."
Michigan - it happened again in the 1st half where the team failed spectacularly in all phases of the game costing us a win.

Not sure what you're looking for, but poor coaching, preparedness, or adapting to changing circumstances have been an increasing issue over the past couple of years.

I wasn't counting the 2022 Purdue debacle, which was a photo copy if the 2021 Bowling Green debacle - a team that had a 14 game losing streak. At home. On Homecoming.

What could be looked at as an annual WTF experience has exploded in the past two years.

 

[Gopher Ally]

Bottom line is we are a legitimate program and the state is rallying behind them. Who doesn’t want to root for the kid from Esko?

 

[Live in the now]

PJ has beaten Wisconsin more than the last 4 head coaches combined.

Lots of people seem to forget the monumental ass whoopings the badgers used to put on the gophers. It’s actually become a rivalry again. It really wasn’t for about 15 or so years. I think the gophers would be favored against them right now.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Lots of people seem to forget the monumental ass whoopings the badgers used to put on the gophers. It’s actually become a rivalry again. It really wasn’t for about 15 or so years. I think the gophers would be favored against them right now.

Iowa too. Record against them isn’t great in Fleck era but most games have been very even.

 

[Live in the now]

Iowa too. Record against them isn’t great in Fleck era but most games have been very even.

Yeah there were a couple heartbreakers in there for sure. Fleck is a beavis and super corny but with a bunch of 3 stars and a handful of 4stars he is just what the program needs. They are much better than anything we have seen in a long time. Hopefully they can be competitive and occasionally have a special season. I can’t see it being much better than that.

 

[swede2]

Lots of people seem to forget the monumental ass whoopings the badgers used to put on the gophers. It’s actually become a rivalry again. It really wasn’t for about 15 or so years. I think the gophers would be favored against them right now.

Wisconsin also used to win Big 10 titles too. PJ has elevated the team a bit but let's not pretend he's coaching against Alvarez or even Bielema (except he is coaching against Bielema at Illinois and losing).

 

[caliGopher]

So you're saying I'm.....correct????

You are really getting into the weeds on this one.

It was an interesting hypothesis, so I dug into it over lunch (slow day). One year hypothetical 2 game decrease, one year basically no change. Thought putting some numbers behind it would be interesting.

I do think that playing tOSU, Michigan, and Penn State every year year after year in the East and not in the west created the appearance of the East teams being worse, perhaps more than they were in reality.

Rutgers, Maryland, Indiana and Michigan state (when they had issues at coaches) were facing a likely loss in 33.3% of there conf games every year and half of their divisional games. That makes it a lot harder in a proof of concept situation when they were trying to make a case to recruits to come there.

That was a reality that none of the teams in the west had to deal with. I also think that lack of consistent top tier competition hurt the teams in the west overall.

 

[60's Guy]

Not a good look...for many reasons.
Here's two: 1. Never talk to reporters in an empty gym. Very bad look.
2. Getting paid millions of dollars Ben could afford a healthy diet chef, a workout trainer and a fashion consultant.

 

[Ewert86PC]

I mean he has beaten Wisconsin 3 out of the last six, that’s pretty regular.

Iowa 1-7

 

[Ewert86PC]

PJ has beaten Wisconsin more than the last 4 head coaches combined.

And Iowa? 1-7

 

[Hotrod56425]

I can see 4 possible wins = 7 = bowl game

 

[Unregistered User]

Not a good look...for many reasons.
Here's two: 1. Never talk to reporters in an empty gym. Very bad look.
2. Getting paid millions of dollars Ben could afford a healthy diet chef, a workout trainer and a fashion consultant.View attachment 34005

Who TF are you talking to?

 

[Gopher Ally]

I can see 4 possible wins = 7 = bowl game

They can beat any team on the schedule if they play 60 minutes and avoid turnovers

 

[60's Guy]

Who TF are you talking to?

Well, that's a pretty good question. Rule #1: Never try to post with your phone.
This was intended and originally seemed to be posted in a basketball press conference thread.
It obviously has nothing to do with PJ...agreed.

 

[GopherGrit]

I think he is showing more adaptability this season than people thought he was capable of.

Here it is!

Throwing the ball! Why didn't we do that before, great idea!