Sid: I've been covering Gophs for 70 years, Mason firing was one of most unfair ever

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In regards to Mason it was the right decision done completely the wrong way. I personally thought Mason had worn out his welcome, but the timing of the decision was so bad they would've been better off bringing him back and getting rid of him after what probably would've been a 4-5 win season and a smaller buyout. Tubby, I thought deserved another year and tha was also handled very poorly, but it was obvious which way the program was going. i personally thought if he could land one of the Big three in recruiting he'd deserve to keep his job. Oh well if we don't fire Mason we don't get Kill and we wouldn't be where we are now
 

bemidjigopher said:
In regards to Mason it was the right decision done completely the wrong way. I personally thought Mason had worn out his welcome, but the timing of the decision was so bad they would've been better off bringing him back and getting rid of him after what probably would've been a 4-5 win season and a smaller buyout. Tubby, I thought deserved another year and tha was also handled very poorly, but it was obvious which way the program was going. i personally thought if he could land one of the Big three in recruiting he'd deserve to keep his job. Oh well if we don't fire Mason we don't get Kill and we wouldn't be where we are now
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Yea, I pretty much agree. The 2007 team was completely devoid of talent and while Mase wouldn't have gone 1-11 like Brew did, we were probably looking at around 4-8 which would've sealed Glen's fate regardless.
 

bemidjigopher said:
In regards to Mason it was the right decision done completely the wrong way. I personally thought Mason had worn out his welcome, but the timing of the decision was so bad they would've been better off bringing him back and getting rid of him after what probably would've been a 4-5 win season and a smaller buyout. Tubby, I thought deserved another year and tha was also handled very poorly, but it was obvious which way the program was going. i personally thought if he could land one of the Big three in recruiting he'd deserve to keep his job. Oh well if we don't fire Mason we don't get Kill and we wouldn't be where we are now
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Which is back close to where Mason was.
 

csom_1991 said:
On point 1 - yes, you are delusional. Had Glen not flirted with tOSU, he would still be here. Sorry, but that is a fact because there was no way on earth they were going to firing Glen when he was making annual bowl trips, winning 6+ games in the non-watered down Big 10, won rivalry games, put stars into the NFL, and put Gopher football on the map despite the lack of Admin support, facilities, and money. Sorry, you are delusional if you think firing him outside of the tOSU pursuit was a possibility.

On point 2 - I said Glen not coaching was a CHOICE. You 'counter' that point by saying that Glen turned down offers so it was not a choice. Is your issue with the English language or are you still drunk from watching NFL today?
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The OSU thing was six years and at least one AD prior to the firing, he also flirted with Sparty after Saban left there had nothing to do with it. You're argument also conveniently ignores the crippling extension he signed the season prior, but that's more of a Maturi issue
 



husker70 said:
Earth to Sid. Earth to Sid. The most unfair firing was the Canning of Cal Stoll. There was really never any justification, only some idea that the team needed to throw it more. And the 40 years in the wilderness began with Salem being hired.
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If were counting all 70 of Sid's years wouldn't firing Bernie Bierman be more unfair. What did he win five national titles?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Which is back close to where Mason was.
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True, but like I said mason got ten years, Claeys is on year one, you would say year six, but being the head coach is completly different thn being a Coordinator. Like I said Claeys won't get ten years without hardware, but I would take where we are right now over any point with Mason except between 2003 and 04. Course you can blame brewster for Kill needing to clean up that mess, but most people can't seem to seperate the fact that firing Mason and hiring brew were two separate decisions. One decision was completely wrong, the other the right one, but made under the wrong circumstances, you can proably guess which one is which
 


Kid misses a 52 yard field goal in 2006, Mason wins 4-5 games in 2007 and we'd all live in peace for the next nine years.
 




bemidjigopher said:
In regards to Mason it was the right decision done completely the wrong way. I personally thought Mason had worn out his welcome, but the timing of the decision was so bad they would've been better off bringing him back and getting rid of him after what probably would've been a 4-5 win season and a smaller buyout. Tubby, I thought deserved another year and tha was also handled very poorly, but it was obvious which way the program was going. i personally thought if he could land one of the Big three in recruiting he'd deserve to keep his job. Oh well if we don't fire Mason we don't get Kill and we wouldn't be where we are now
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I agree with this post and your subsequent post. Frankly, I would have fired him when he and his agent started to play hardball leading up the 2005 bowl game. As per him not getting along with Maturi, tough toenails Glen. He's your boss. Don't like it, maybe Youngstown State has an opening.
 


50PoundHead said:
I agree with this post and your subsequent post. Frankly, I would have fired him when he and his agent started to play hardball leading up the 2005 bowl game. As per him not getting along with Maturi, tough toenails Glen. He's your boss. Don't like it, maybe Youngstown State has an opening.
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Really great rationalization.... don't knock yourself out.
 



Zeppelin Gopher said:
Yea, I pretty much agree. The 2007 team was completely devoid of talent and while Mase wouldn't have gone 1-11 like Brew did, we were probably looking at around 4-8 which would've sealed Glen's fate regardless.
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A 4-8 team in 2007 under Mason would not have fit the pattern of his teams or been likely.

He had a good O line that Brewster squandered, along with a great FB in Valentine and a solid TE coming back. He had a couple of OK to play WR with Adam Weber throwing the ball.

The first 3 NC Brewster debacles all would have been Minnesota blowouts as usual against NC cupcake teams with 50 plus rushing attempts.

Indiana and Purdue were 3-5 in the Big Ten. Iowa and NW were 6-6 in 2007. Under Mason they could have won 3 or 4 of those games. Even Brewster barely lost to NDSU in 2007, and he did everything he could not to work with the talent he had. His stubborn approach with Dunbar did no favors to anyone that year.

Mason TJ Watt, a really good LB that decommitted and went to MSU and a couple of new RBs with potential.

7-5 or 8-4 was quite possible in 2007. He won 3 games not one expected to win at the end of 2006 ( at MSU, Iowa by 10, Indiana by 50 plus) and had Texas Tech down 38-7 so I would not have written of the 2007 team so quickly.

The 2007 team might have been somewhat better than the 2006 team. In reality Gary Russell flunking out killed everything.
 

Okay, I overlooked a couple of things.

1. He had Ernie Wheelwright and Decker available. Wheelwright made a lot of big plays in the Mason system and Decker would have been good with Weber and Mason staff.

2. We lost TJ Watt, the Michigan State LB (Greg Jones?), and possibly two typical Mason RB recruits after the firing

3. Amir Pinnix was coming back

4. Those four guys that got kicked off the team under Brewster were still on the team under Mason, and a couple of them were pretty good on defense. Who knows what can happen with 19 year olds when lots of drinking occurs, but who knows what would have happened under Mason. Mason tended to deal with conduct issues harshly, and the players tended to behave. (please don't point out the drunken scooter ride, or McField)
 

oak_street1981 said:
Okay, I overlooked a couple of things.

1. He had Ernie Wheelwright and Decker available. Wheelwright made a lot of big plays in the Mason system and Decker would have been good with Weber and Mason staff.

2. We lost TJ Watt, the Michigan State LB (Greg Jones?), and possibly two typical Mason RB recruits after the firing

3. Amir Pinnix was coming back

4. Those four guys that got kicked off the team under Brewster were still on the team under Mason, and a couple of them were pretty good on defense. Who knows what can happen with 19 year olds when lots of drinking occurs, but who knows what would have happened under Mason. Mason tended to deal with conduct issues harshly, and the players tended to behave. (please don't point out the drunken scooter ride, or McField)
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Remember that Watt was recruited as a tight end here. It's possible that no one would've ever heard of him after coming here.

And why can't we bring up McField? He's a Mason recruit who was present the night of the sexual assault case you mentioned. How would Mason have stopped that?
 

ruppertflywheel said:
Really great rationalization.... don't knock yourself out.
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I'm a liberal like you, but you have to be the most cockeyed poster on the board. Maturi was the AD. That was a fact. If Glen didn't like it, tough crap.

oak_street, I would argue that none of the guys you mention except for Greg Jones would have reached their full potential under Mason. Of course, I can't prove the negative, so we'll have to play mental ping-pong. J.J. Watt was recruited as a TE and not as the DE monster he became at Wisconsin. We all kind of know Mason's record of loading up the offensive side of the ball, so I wouldn't have counted on Watt finding his way to the defensive side of the equation. Pinnix got hurt and our O-line was decimated. Of the guys kicked off the team, Jones was the only one we really missed. Alex Daniels did well as a DE at Cincinnati, but Mason had him playing RB after being one of his top defensive recruits.

All that said, I think 6-6 would have been possible with Mason as coach that season, but I thought he'd played out the string. Brewster was a poor choice, but the program was going to be a .400 W/L Big Ten team in perpetua. Will the future be better? Who knows, but I know I was tired of the same old, same old.
 

I don't think I've ever heard this take from Sid before.
 

I get a kick out of the people who say firing Mason was the right thing to do but hiring Brewster was the wrong thing to do as if the two are unrelated. Did they coach at different schools? Did a different AD fire one and hire the other?


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badgergopher said:
I get a kick out of the people who say firing Mason was the right thing to do but hiring Brewster was the wrong thing to do as if the two are unrelated.
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Charlie Strong was considered for the job. Are we having the same conversation if he's hired?

badgergopher said:
Did they coach at different schools? Did a different AD fire one and hire the other?
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Did the same AD hire Mason and Brewster?
 

ruppertflywheel said:
Beats 5 losses in a row. Talk to me when Claeys gets a 10 win season. Beats someone in a Bowl game besides Central Michigan and gets a win other than the bottom feeders of the B1G.
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Claeys just completed his first full season as head coach. Mason got to 10 wins in year 7. His first bowl win was in year 6. Comparing Claeys and Mason are ridiculous at this point.
 

badgergopher said:
I get a kick out of the people who say firing Mason was the right thing to do but hiring Brewster was the wrong thing to do as if the two are unrelated. Did they coach at different schools? Did a different AD fire one and hire the other?


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What's the problem with saying that? They were two different actions. It's not like they fired Mason specifically because they wanted Brewster to be the head coach.

If you're a manager of a company and you fire an employee because they aren't making sales goals, and then the guy you hire to replace him does even worse, does that mean you firing the first guy was a mistake? I would say no, it just means you did a poor job finding a good replacement.
 

Maximus said:
Charlie Strong was considered for the job. Are we having the same conversation if he's hired?



Did the same AD hire Mason and Brewster?
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Hindsight is 20/20. We know what ACTUALLY happened.

I have no problem with people that say, "Firing Mase SEEMED the right thing at the time, but in retrospect was a disaster." I'm talking about people who, in the face of historic facts, claim it was still the right thing for Joel Maturi to do.


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Man O man...many people hung up on the past along with many of the unknowns. Who knows what Mason would have done with Watt. Maybe he would have turned him into a LB. I think its high time we put this thread to rest along with another repeated requests (not by me but also by others in the past) to let go of the Mason Brewster situations. I know we all have loyalty to various coaches and that's alright. However a time comes when we need to let it go and move one. Sometimes a little maturity doesn't hurt.
 

oak_street1981 said:
A 4-8 team in 2007 under Mason would not have fit the pattern of his teams or been likely.

He had a good O line that Brewster squandered, along with a great FB in Valentine and a solid TE coming back. He had a couple of OK to play WR with Adam Weber throwing the ball.

The first 3 NC Brewster debacles all would have been Minnesota blowouts as usual against NC cupcake teams with 50 plus rushing attempts.

Indiana and Purdue were 3-5 in the Big Ten. Iowa and NW were 6-6 in 2007. Under Mason they could have won 3 or 4 of those games. Even Brewster barely lost to NDSU in 2007, and he did everything he could not to work with the talent he had. His stubborn approach with Dunbar did no favors to anyone that year.

Mason TJ Watt, a really good LB that decommitted and went to MSU and a couple of new RBs with potential.

7-5 or 8-4 was quite possible in 2007. He won 3 games not one expected to win at the end of 2006 ( at MSU, Iowa by 10, Indiana by 50 plus) and had Texas Tech down 38-7 so I would not have written of the 2007 team so quickly.

The 2007 team might have been somewhat better than the 2006 team. In reality Gary Russell flunking out killed everything.
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FYI, Gary Russell was long gone by 2007. He flunked out after the 2005 season.

Agreed that we would've cleaned up on the non conference games (besides NDSU as we were incredibly lucky to win that game in 06). It's possible that we could've squeaked out another 6-6 season had Mase stuck around, but not likely.
 

badgergopher said:
Hindsight is 20/20. We know what ACTUALLY happened.

I have no problem with people that say, "Firing Mase SEEMED the right thing at the time, but in retrospect was a disaster." I'm talking about people who, in the face of historic facts, claim it was still the right thing for Joel Maturi to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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The firing wasn't a disaster. The hiring of Brewster was.

Say I catch one of my employees stealing petty cash ($10-$20 once in awhile) and fire him. Then hire a replacement that ends up stealing several thousands of dollars. Does that mean I was wrong to fire the first guy?
 

GophersInIowa said:
The firing wasn't a disaster. The hiring of Brewster was.

Say I catch one of my employees stealing petty cash ($10-$20 once in awhile) and fire him. Then hire a replacement that ends up stealing several thousands of dollars. Does that mean I was wrong to fire the first guy?
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A post that makes perfect sense? Strange.
 

GophersInIowa said:
The firing wasn't a disaster. The hiring of Brewster was.

Say I catch one of my employees stealing petty cash ($10-$20 once in awhile) and fire him. Then hire a replacement that ends up stealing several thousands of dollars. Does that mean I was wrong to fire the first guy?
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It means you're worse off. Isn't your goal to be better off?
 


Mason's firing only looks bad because Brewster was a hot steaming pile and Maturi wasn't much better. I witnessed too many epic collapses by Mason's teams to continue to support him. We needed a change. 5 years of Claeys going 8-4 and not beating Wisconsin will get Claeys dismissed as well.
 

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