Sid: Fleck "We have nine total scholarship seniors, which is not a lot."

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How do we know the players left because PJ drove them off? Are there quotes from each player documented somewhere?

Also, is it's PJ's fault if player asked "Hey coach, will I get much playing time next year?" and PJ says "No, to be honest, probably not".
Is that PJ driving the player off the squad or is that the coach just being honest and the player then deciding to leave?



A lot of the blamers seem to want to believe Fleck withdrew all of their scholarships or something or kicked them off the team. Is it okay if he had some honest conversations with some of these players and they decided to leave, or is that a Fleck-fault?
 

GFBfan said:
Hunter Register, Melvin Holland Jr., Everett Williams, Jaylen Waters, Drew Hmielewski(not a transfer, just decided to concentrate on baseball), Mark Williams
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How do we know PJ drove these players off vs them deciding to go elsewhere because they thought they would get more playing time / interest in football changed?
 

Face The Facts said:
How do we know the players left because PJ drove them off? Are there quotes from each player documented somewhere?

Also, is it's PJ's fault if player asked "Hey coach, will I get much playing time next year?" and PJ says "No, to be honest, probably not".
Is that PJ driving the player off the squad or is that the coach just being honest and the player then deciding to leave?



A lot of the blamers seem to want to believe Fleck withdrew all of their scholarships or something or kicked them off the team. Is it okay if he had some honest conversations with some of these players and they decided to leave, or is that a Fleck-fault?
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You have issues.
 




Make a choice PJ:

1. Only 9 scholarship seniors
2. Sign 25....leading to some pointing to that as evidence of you being a great recruiter (more kids=more total points)

You can't have it both ways. If you had more seniors, you're class wouldn't be as heralded as some think it is due to less schollies.
 

We had 206.66 points with 25 recruits for an avg. of 8.27/recruit. Let's say we have 12 seniors on scholly (3 less signees). That leaves us with 181.87 points. That drops us to 57th (right in between Boise St. and Rutgers).

FYI....I think somebody leaped us in the rankings. The last I saw I think we were 37...now we are 38 (2018).
 

OddStack said:
We had 206.66 points with 25 recruits for an avg. of 8.27/recruit. Let's say we have 12 seniors on scholly (3 less signees). That leaves us with 181.87 points. That drops us to 57th (right in between Boise St. and Rutgers).

FYI....I think somebody leaped us in the rankings. The last I saw I think we were 37...now we are 38 (2018).
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Top 30!
 

Dpod....want to make a bet? (asking for a friend....JB18)
 



OddStack said:
Make a choice PJ:

1. Only 9 scholarship seniors
2. Sign 25....leading to some pointing to that as evidence of you being a great recruiter (more kids=more total points)

You can't have it both ways. If you had more seniors, you're class wouldn't be as heralded as some think it is due to less schollies.
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So now Fleck signed 25 recruits to make himself look better?

That's a great take. :clap::clap::clap:
 

scools12 said:
So now Fleck signed 25 recruits to make himself look better?

That's a great take. :clap::clap::clap:
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He signed 25 recruits b/c he had 9 scholly seniors. I didn't hear him complain (about 9 seniors on scholly) or point out that this is an unusually large class in terms of size b/c of the lack of scholarships and experience they have on the team.

The situation--being what it is--allowed him to take credit for a large class and look great, yet the situation is now an excuse for lowering expectations. How about he takes credit for a good/large class by pointing out (while taking credit) that the lack of seniors was a great opportunity to bring in the talent? That's something called CREDIBILTY!
 

OddStack said:
He signed 25 recruits b/c he had 9 scholly seniors. I didn't hear him complain (about 9 seniors on scholly) or point out that this is an unusually large class in terms of size b/c of the lack of scholarships and experience they have on the team.

The situation--being what it is--allowed him to take credit for a large class and look great, yet the situation is now an excuse for lowering expectations. How about he takes credit for a good/large class by pointing out (while taking credit) that the lack of seniors was a great opportunity to bring in the talent? That's something called CREDIBILTY!
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PJ and his backers require he has it both ways.
 

I just read this entire thread (which I realize can only be taken as an indictment of my own intelligence) and I can't get the image of a pre-teen girls slumber party gone sour out of my head. If any of you posters (on both sides of the pissing contest) consider yourself adults, you should re-consider your style of discourse.
 



For reference (and this is unbiased and a hopefully a pox on both houses), the Kill/Brewster class of 2011 had 26 commits and Kill's first class had 27 commits. In other words, the pattern of guys leaving isn't an odd one when there is a coaching change, which then leads to large recruiting classes in the first year or two of the new coach's tenure. Kill pretty much said the exact same things Fleck is saying now. If anything, Kill was more critical of the team's prospects.
 

PhillyGopher said:
I just read this entire thread (which I realize can only be taken as an indictment of my own intelligence) and I can't get the image of a pre-teen girls slumber party gone sour out of my head. If any of you posters (on both sides of the pissing contest) consider yourself adults, you should re-consider your style of discourse.
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I'm rubber, you're glue. Bounces off me and sticks to you. (sarcasm)

There are two ways to look at this thread. I happen to think it is a microcosm of what Gopher Hole has become in the last few years. The sexual assault investigation, the boycott and the firing of Claeys was a watershed moment for the Gopher FB program, and also for this website.

The Gopher fan base, and specifically this board, have divided into two camps. One camp thinks Claeys got a raw deal, and has questions or misgivings about Fleck, his personality and his approach. the other camp believes Claeys had to go, and believes that Fleck is the right person to lead gopher Football back to national prominence.

What's different is the intensity of people's feelings, and the outright enmity that each camp seems to have for the other. This goes way beyond the former pissing matches over Mason vs. Brewster, Mason vs. Kill, Leidner vs. Nelson, etc. I would say there is a direct parallel between the Claeys and Fleck camps, and the Liberal vs. conservative political debate on the off-topic board. it's gone from people expressing differing opinions to outright warfare.
 

50PoundHead said:
For reference (and this is unbiased and a hopefully a pox on both houses), the Kill/Brewster class of 2011 had 26 commits and Kill's first class had 27 commits. In other words, the pattern of guys leaving isn't an odd one when there is a coaching change, which then leads to large recruiting classes in the first year or two of the new coach's tenure. Kill pretty much said the exact same things Fleck is saying now. If anything, Kill was more critical of the team's prospects.
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He was b/c they were bad!!! Kill was asked how he brought his NIU team in here and beat the Gophers. He replied honestly and simply. He said they were a better team with better players.
 

OddStack said:
He was b/c they were bad!!! Kill was asked how he brought his NIU team in here and beat the Gophers. He replied honestly and simply. He said they were a better team with better players.
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That doesn't excuse throwing the team under the bus for two seasons.
 

50PoundHead said:
For reference (and this is unbiased and a hopefully a pox on both houses), the Kill/Brewster class of 2011 had 26 commits and Kill's first class had 27 commits. In other words, the pattern of guys leaving isn't an odd one when there is a coaching change, which then leads to large recruiting classes in the first year or two of the new coach's tenure. Kill pretty much said the exact same things Fleck is saying now. If anything, Kill was more critical of the team's prospects.
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i recall cringing at the things Kill said about his team in regards to talent.
 

Kill had a lot of bad things to say about academics.

Something about having to have coaching staff go around just to get the kids up and get them to go to class.
He was very negative about the Brewster era.
Yet, Brewster competed against WI better than anyone since.
 

Face The Facts said:
Kill had a lot of bad things to say about academics.

Something about having to have coaching staff go around just to get the kids up and get them to go to class.
He was very negative about the Brewster era.
Yet, Brewster competed against WI better than anyone since.
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True, but I'd take the overall performance of Kill's teams compared to Brewster's. Although I don't think Brewster's teams were as bad as everyone else seems to think.

I don't think high quality academics have a ton to do with win/loss record though (see: SEC).
 

PhillyGopher said:
I just read this entire thread (which I realize can only be taken as an indictment of my own intelligence) and I can't get the image of a pre-teen girls slumber party gone sour out of my head. If any of you posters (on both sides of the pissing contest) consider yourself adults, you should re-consider your style of discourse.
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Make Gopherhole Great Again
 

PhillyGopher said:
I just read this entire thread (which I realize can only be taken as an indictment of my own intelligence) and I can't get the image of a pre-teen girls slumber party gone sour out of my head. If any of you posters (on both sides of the pissing contest) consider yourself adults, you should re-consider your style of discourse.
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Congratulations, parting with Gopherhole tradition you were able to successfully slam our maturity and intelligence without a spelling error
 

PhillyGopher said:
I just read this entire thread (which I realize can only be taken as an indictment of my own intelligence) and I can't get the image of a pre-teen girls slumber party gone sour out of my head. If any of you posters (on both sides of the pissing contest) consider yourself adults, you should re-consider your style of discourse.
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For the record I'm the one at the party who clearly has the best butt!
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
For the record I'm the one at the party who clearly has the best butt!
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<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/l0IypeKl9NJhPFMrK" width="480" height="281" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/reactionseditor-wtf-mind-blown-l0IypeKl9NJhPFMrK">via GIPHY</a></p>
.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/l0IypeKl9NJhPFMrK" width="480" height="281" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/reactionseditor-wtf-mind-blown-l0IypeKl9NJhPFMrK">via GIPHY</a></p>
.
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That was my reaction when I overheard the discussion going on at a sleepover.... but apparently it was a discussion and I'm not missing out on the competition this time!
 

Face The Facts said:
Kill had a lot of bad things to say about academics.

Something about having to have coaching staff go around just to get the kids up and get them to go to class.
He was very negative about the Brewster era.
Yet, Brewster competed against WI better than anyone since.
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You keep bringing this up like it matters. It doesn't. 0-4 is all that matters.
 

This is getting weird. Can't wait for fall when we can stop arguing about culture, recruiting rankings, and press conferences, and instead get back to evaluating wins and losses.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
This is getting weird. Can't wait for fall when we can stop arguing about culture, recruiting rankings, and press conferences, and instead get back to evaluating wins and losses.
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Agreed. Unfortunately when you have a new coach I think you get a lot of that probably through the end of year 2. Then the honeymoon is over and you can actually talk results with most rational people.
 

Word said:
Agreed. Unfortunately when you have a new coach I think you get a lot of that probably through the end of year 2. Then the honeymoon is over and you can actually talk results with most rational people.
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You must be a newbie to the Gopherhole. [emoji56] Rational thinking is far and few in the bowels of the GH. [emoji41]
 

Word said:
Agreed. Unfortunately when you have a new coach I think you get a lot of that probably through the end of year 2. Then the honeymoon is over and you can actually talk results with most rational people.
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Oh brother!!! That means we are still TWO seasons away from results and rationality.
 

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