Sid: Fleck "We have nine total scholarship seniors, which is not a lot."

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60's Guy said:
PJ's self serving woe is me, really wears on me. Here is the deal: Prior to the arrival of PJ, the previous 4 FOUR Gopher football seasons, we were one win short of averaging 8 wins per season... 31 wins versus 32 wins in this time period to exactly average 8 wins per season for four years. We achieved a string of 5 straight bowl appearances!! Yes, No argument, we are greedy...we all would have liked more wins and better bowls.

But then PJ comes in and continually tells us how bad we were. No PJ. We went to 5 straight bowls! We averaged 8 wins per season for four years. Then you arrive and win 5 games and break our 5 game consecutive bowl streak.

Keep telling us how bad we are so you get a longer contract to continue to make 5 times the money of the coach you replaced and win half as many games.

Please shut up about how bad we are and focus how good we will be under your elite leadership. You get what you emphasize in coaching. Constantly telling anyone who will listen how bad we are insures we will be bad going forward. Tell me how good we will be this year. If it turns out we are bad....Failure is growth. But at least we'd be able to hear optimism for 12 months versus your BS how bad the program was. Wrong!!
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Your constant negativity and complaining is wearing me out. Give it a rest.
 

Hey Mulligan don’t get caught up in the 60‘s guy comments. He is a troll who hasn’t seen a Gopher game since well, the 60‘s.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Which players did he 'run off' ended up at an equal or better school than Minnesota? None of them. But he ran off so much talent because of his system... :rolleyes:

The Gophers do only have 9 scholarship SRs on offense/defense. I guess we should drastically increase our expectations based on a scholarship long snapper and kicker.
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Offense. Defense.

Those are the only players that count. As special teams obviously do not count.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
The kicker and long snapper are really only important in close games. That would be roughly half of the games last year. Players on offense/defense have an impact on every game.

As for the 2nd half of your blathering post, I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Special teams impact every game. The excuses are extraordinary.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
The kicker and long snapper are really only important in close games. That would be roughly half of the games last year. Players on offense/defense have an impact on every game.

As for the 2nd half of your blathering post, I have no idea what you're talking about.
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I’m actually having trouble processing the idea you don’t feel special teams are important. This is as concerning as a head coach apparently* repeating an erroneous number of scholarship seniors on his own team, barring the possibility he’s throwing out a number without qualifying why it doesn’t match the roster for undisclosed “privacy” reasons.

*so far no retirements or transfers announced. Still at 11 scholarship seniors.
 



Pompous Elitist said:
I’m actually having trouble processing the idea you don’t feel special teams are important. This is as concerning as a head coach apparently* repeating an erroneous number of scholarship seniors on his own team, barring the possibility he’s throwing out a number without qualifying why it doesn’t match the roster for undisclosed “privacy” reasons.

*so far no retirements or transfers announced. Still at 11 scholarship seniors.
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Weather dude luuuuuvs excuses where pj is concerned.
 

Looking through the 2014 and 2015 classes it’s a mishmash of impact players, medical retirements, guys that never developed, and expulsions. There are probably only a few that directly or partially left because of an oil/water real action ship with PJ. Waters, Still, Croft, maybe Craighton.

It probably can’t be overstated how much we missed and will miss players like Craig James (transfer prior to PJ), Craighton, Kiante Hardin and Ray Buford (hold your opinions on their off the field behavior) not to mention some of those linemen casualties. If eg James is here last year as a senior CB do we lose to Purdue on that last drive?
 

BarnBurner said:
Weather dude luuuuuvs excuses where pj is concerned.
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Yesterday I heard PJ is like a SEAL instructor and not setting identifiable goals so as not to discourage the team should they fail (insert tearing up laughing emoji). Today I heard kickers and field position isn’t important.
 



Pompous Elitist said:
Yesterday I heard PJ is like a SEAL instructor and not setting identifiable goals so as not to discourage the team should they fail (insert tearing up laughing emoji). Today I heard kickers and field position isn’t important.
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Its obvious that you've been in your parent's basement a long time.
 

The U needs to launch a full scale investigation into this very concerning and apparently erroneous behavior by the head football concerning his stated number of scholarship seniors on the team.


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If PJ wins 10 games next year he can say we have zero scholarship seniors and I won't care. Heck, if he does that he can say that he taught social studies at an inner city middle school to a group of troubled youth who then turned their lives around and graduated from Ivy League schools.

Just win, baby. The rest is just noise.
 



Don't let me break the mood. I still think he can be successful if he's able to keep recruiting. As a reader and someone that cares about details I just wish he'd stop with the occasional nonsense emanating from his mouth.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I’m actually having trouble processing the idea you don’t feel special teams are important. This is as concerning as a head coach apparently* repeating an erroneous number of scholarship seniors on his own team, barring the possibility he’s throwing out a number without qualifying why it doesn’t match the roster for undisclosed “privacy” reasons.

*so far no retirements or transfers announced. Still at 11 scholarship seniors.
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No, kickers and long snappers are not as important as the QB, RB, OL, DL, LBs, and DBs. They play a fraction of the time.

Nor do I think having a SR kicker over a SO kicker makes that big of a difference. Have a SR QB, or OL, or DL compared to a younger player at those positions makes a much bigger difference.
 

bizzle22 said:
If PJ wins 10 games next year he can say we have zero scholarship seniors and I won't care. Heck, if he does that he can say that he taught social studies at an inner city middle school to a group of troubled youth who then turned their lives around and graduated from Ivy League schools.

Just win, baby. The rest is just noise.
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Thing is...he didn’t in his first year as the HC here and the team played uninspired ball at the end of the season. That is on him, I don’t care how many Srs on scholarship there are or draftable seniors or whatever the excuse is going to be.


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GFBfan said:
Thing is...he didn’t in his first year as the HC here and the team played uninspired ball at the end of the season. That is on him, I don’t care how many Srs on scholarship there are or draftable seniors or whatever the excuse is going to be.


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We gotta bring Jeff Horton back to perk them up. He got them going.
 

GFBfan said:
Thing is...he didn’t in his first year as the HC here and the team played uninspired ball at the end of the season. That is on him, I don’t care how many Srs on scholarship there are or draftable seniors or whatever the excuse is going to be.


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I guess I thought beating Nebraska by 33 in the 3rd to last game was pretty uninspiring too...
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Looking through the 2014 and 2015 classes it’s a mishmash of impact players, medical retirements, guys that never developed, and expulsions. There are probably only a few that directly or partially left because of an oil/water real action ship with PJ. Waters, Still, Croft, maybe Craighton.

It probably can’t be overstated how much we missed and will miss players like Craig James (transfer prior to PJ), Craighton, Kiante Hardin and Ray Buford (hold your opinions on their off the field behavior) not to mention some of those linemen casualties. If eg James is here last year as a senior CB do we lose to Purdue on that last drive?
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Let's put some meat into this discussion:

GOPHER 2015 CLASS.jpg

The 2015 Class is disastrous. Fourteen out of twenty four players are no longer with the team. Eleven are due to transfers for various reasons including three expulsions, lack of playing time, not buying in. Two - Nick Connelly and Ted Stieber are medical/injury related. One - Ace Rogers, his eligibility clock ran out.

We haven't even touch the 2014 Class with players like Jeff Jones, Gaelin Elmore, Melvin Holland Jr, etc... leaving the team.

The plus side is they opened up scholarship slots for 2018 and 2019.

There is a reason the Gophers went 5-7 last season. Losing so many would be seniors, injuries, and having a very thin and fragile offensive line compounded the problems.

So, complainers. Complain all you want. The status quo is what it is. But, even with a lot of inexperience going into the 2018 campaign there are glimpses of hope with the talent level that the Gopher acquired in the last recruiting cycle and this cycle.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I guess I thought beating Nebraska by 33 in the 3rd to last game was pretty uninspiring too...
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No that was a good win. Team played well and the coaches actually called plays to take advantage of what was being given to them.
Can’t say the same in the last two games though.
Your response would seem to indicate that you were ok with how we played and coached those games.


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GFBfan said:
Thing is...he didn’t in his first year as the HC here and the team played uninspired ball at the end of the season. That is on him, I don’t care how many Srs on scholarship there are or draftable seniors or whatever the excuse is going to be.


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I'm fine with any complaints about his performance as a HC in terms of wins and losses, and I'm fine with people jumping all over him if his players are getting into trouble off the field. I don't care about the other things.
 

GFBfan said:
No that was a good win. Team played well and the coaches actually called plays to take advantage of what was being given to them.
Can’t say the same in the last two games though.
Your response would seem to indicate that you were ok with how we played and coached those games.


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They also played defenses that were ranked 23rd and 3rd overall in the S&P rankings.
That was with Demry Croft who is now at FCS Tennessee St, and WRs including:
Mark Williams - now at FCS Tennessee-Chattanooga,
Clay Geary - walk-on,
Phil Howard - who will probably be the 5th or 6th WR this year
Drew Hmielewski - now playing baseball
Rashad Still - transferred to a new Division II school in Michigan
Eric Carter - who was slower than a 260 lb middle linebacker from Purdue. But in Ja'Whaun Bentley's defense, he was a 5th round draft pick.

This crew of WRs dropped the ball the majority of the time they attempted a pass the last two games. I was not surprised when they couldn't move the ball against top tier defenses and it was far more due to talent than coaching.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
No, kickers and long snappers are not as important as the QB, RB, OL, DL, LBs, and DBs. They play a fraction of the time.

Nor do I think having a SR kicker over a SO kicker makes that big of a difference. Have a SR QB, or OL, or DL compared to a younger player at those positions makes a much bigger difference.
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So, should PJ break down how many Sr scholarship linemen and QBs we have into tier 1, skill players into tier 2, and special teams into the circular file? Or, how about draftable seniors? Do they count twice? Is this like Weight Watchers?

Just stop defending an awful position. Just stop saying things that don’t make sense. This is directed at PJ and everyone else.

You don’t think a good punter matters, or a good kicker, or a good coverage team, or a guy that can handle punts and/or break a big return...or the opposite? Hugely important. It’s all about yards, expected points, percentages, points ultimately. It’s all synergistic. Forget it.
 

Face The Facts said:
Refresh my memory, was it Kill who got an the extension after one season on payroll because he said it would take longer than expected?

Yep, I guess so.

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...rs-coach-jerry-kill-signs-seven-year-contract

Within two years of narrowly losing to WI by three, he assessed the program was so bad he needed 7 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota–Wisconsin_football_rivalry


Perhaps since we've been routinely losing to WI by double digits since he took over, Fleck can bargain for 14 years.
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It seems strange that you have "Go Gophers" in your signature line, when you only seem to be a P.J. fan. The endless posts like this about how bad the past players and coaches don't seem to point to overall Gopher loyalty.
 

WoodburyTim said:
The endless posts like this about how bad the past players and coaches don't seem to point to overall Gopher loyalty.
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Endless criticism of a football coach after one year doesn't seem to point to overall Gopher loyalty either. GopherHole is supposed to be a Gopher fan site but it often reads more like the Strib subscriber comments section.
 

Cruze said:
Endless criticism of a football coach after one year doesn't seem to point to overall Gopher loyalty either. GopherHole is supposed to be a Gopher fan site but it often reads more like the Strib subscriber comments section.
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Constant criticism after one year? Are you talking about Claeys or Fleck?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
So, should PJ break down how many Sr scholarship linemen and QBs we have into tier 1, skill players into tier 2, and special teams into the circular file? Or, how about draftable seniors? Do they count twice? Is this like Weight Watchers?

Just stop defending an awful position. Just stop saying things that don’t make sense. This is directed at PJ and everyone else.

You don’t think a good punter matters, or a good kicker, or a good coverage team, or a guy that can handle punts and/or break a big return...or the opposite? Hugely important. It’s all about yards, expected points, percentages, points ultimately. It’s all synergistic. Forget it.
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It makes plenty of sense. Your 100 posts complaining about not including a LS and K don't make any sense. Good kickers and punters matter, but nowhere near to the extent as a good/experienced players on offense/defense.

If your kicker/punter/long snappers are your best players on your team, your not going to win many, if any games. Of the top 10 kickers in field goal percentage last year, only 4 were SRs, 4 were FR/SO, and 2 were JRs. Experience at that position does not matter as much as other positions.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
It makes plenty of sense. Your 100 posts complaining about not including a LS and K don't make any sense. Good kickers and punters matter, but nowhere near to the extent as a good/experienced players on offense/defense.

If your kicker/punter/long snappers are your best players on your team, your not going to win many, if any games. Of the top 10 kickers in field goal percentage last year, only 4 were SRs, 4 were FR/SO, and 2 were JRs. Experience at that position does not matter as much as other positions.
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Ok - so I haven't really been tracking this argument between you guys. Is the argument that PJ says there are 9 scholarship seniors, but there are actually 11? And that 2 of those 11 are special teams players so PJ doesn't include them in his totals?
 

WoodburyTim said:
It seems strange that you have "Go Gophers" in your signature line, when you only seem to be a P.J. fan. The endless posts like this about how bad the past players and coaches don't seem to point to overall Gopher loyalty.
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I don't think his post insinuates that Kill was "bad." I think it points out that Kill was doing the same thing when he took over that Fleck is doing now.
 

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