Shortell's future

[Sportsfan24]

Weird stats, not really related to this conversation:

Shortell has actually started more Big Ten road games than Gray; Shortell - 3, Gray - 2

Big Ten home game starts: Gray - 4, Shortell - 0

Home Starts overall: Gray - 9, Shortell - 1

Actually they are very relevant to this conversation.

They say that against inferior teams in the more welcoming confines of TCF, Gray has slightly better QB stats than Shortel.

 

[station19]

Actually they are very relevant to this conversation.

They say that against inferior teams in the more welcoming confines of TCF, Gray has slightly better QB stats than Shortel.

Good point.

However I am sure dpo will dispute any thoughts that are contrary to his, and then claim the reason we don't agree with him is because of our bias. He will then try to impress everyone with his massive vocabulary.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Some things you can't distill down to stats - like Leadership - like the ability to inspire his teammates - like the will to win - and other intangibles.

It may not make statistical sense, but I just feel better when Gray is in the lineup. I may be dead wrong, but my gut tells me that Gray is the best option for THIS team for THIS season.

Limegrover's offense is designed for a dual-threat QB (see: Chandler Harnish). Harnish is a better passer than Gray, but Gray is much closer to that template then Shortell. If Shortell is your QB, you almost need to run a different offense to maximize his skills, and minimize his weaknesses.

so, IMHO, the choice is play Gray, and run the regular offense, or play Shortell, and come with a different offense. What do you think the coaches would rather do?

 

[TrapperDoo]

The problem remains that the whole team is young. Just think about our O-line for a minute. Walk-on Freshmen Jon Christenson makes his 1st ever start. Soph walk-on Caleb Bak makes his 4th or 5th? As does redshirt freshmen Campion. Epping is playing his 2nd game at center out of position, and E. Olson remains the grizzled veteran as a junior. The line is really young. I think they did a very good job in pass protection, the sacks were on Max for holding the ball too long. Run blocking still has a ways to go though.

Part of the issue with Max is that on a good team, he'd be a redshirt freshmen who never would have had to see game action yet. Since Alipate and Parrish didn't pan out, there's a gaping whole at QB, in addition to O-line, WR, RB, etc. etc.

+1. Everyone needs to calm down. Max is a 19 year old kid. We have a very young team and it is really JKs first year (at least in terms of bringing in his own recruits.) We are most likely going to lose some games moving forward. I would hope for 2 x B10 wins and call it a relatively successful season, and I think we'll get them. Baby steps. Max will get better as the line play improves. Let's keep looking to the upside. There is no doubt we are better than last year, and we will continue to improve on a season-over-season basis. Fans gotta keep it positive. Remember, recruits read these boards too.

 

[HopherGole]

I agree. They need to scheme better for their personnel, but there were many mistakes made in that game by the guys on the field. Especially in the trenches. However, when you spend your entire year planning for a running QB and in one week you have to redesign everything, it can't be an easy task.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Great points!

I would also add that teams double dog dare Gray to pass by loading the box to stop him from running. Resulting in Gray getting much different (far easier) defensive schemes to pass against that Shortel.

As to having a bias. I do, I have a bias for QB's who can throw! I'm joking dpodoll68. I was as big a Gray fan as anyone at the start of last season; I still am, I just want him at the position he will play next season.

Probably true, but that also shows how valuable and good he is in the run game. Even though they load the box to try and stop him, he still is a huge threat as a runner.

 

[dpodoll68]

Good point.

However I am sure dpo will dispute any thoughts that are contrary to his, and then claim the reason we don't agree with him is because of our bias. He will then try to impress everyone with his massive vocabulary.

I couldn't care less whether anyone agrees with me or not. What I will not allow is for the facts to be disregarded.

 

[Sportsfan24]

Probably true, but that also shows how valuable and good he is in the run game. Even though they load the box to try and stop him, he still is a huge threat as a runner.

I agree; there is no doubt he is a very effective runner as a QB. However; I would absolutely hate to be a skill position player on the gopher offense with him at QB.

 

[mnsports1]

I agree; there is no doubt he is a very effective runner as a QB. However; I would absolutely hate to be a skill position player on the gopher offense with him at QB.

Right, because all you are worried about is me, me, me, and the next level. But, for someone who cares about the success of the TEAM they may not hate him at qb

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

I agree; there is no doubt he is a very effective runner as a QB. However; I would absolutely hate to be a skill position player on the gopher offense with him at QB.

That's an interesting point. There are times I wonder about how the receivers, et al feel about who is under center.

In all reality, players want to win. Some may have a minor preference one way or the other but winning cures everything. If one QB was perceived to give them a substantially better chance at winning, that's who they would go with. I would hope we don't have a lot of skill position guys that are only out for their own numbers.

 

[CentralGopher]

Gray doesn't set the schedule. He can only play against the team lined up across from him. You can't say "he can't pass" when he'd be #2 in the conference in passing efficiency if eligible. You said "he's just as bad or worse than last year when it comes to putting the ball in the air". I don't know what you're basing this on, but the stats do not support you. Thus, I am left to assume that you're seeing what you want to see regardless of what is actually there. That and the fact that you talk about our senior QB like he's a 12-year-old who's lucky to be seeing the field are what cause me "such heartburn".

I have nothing against Gray and actually like him as the qb over Shortell but saying he would be #2 in passing efficiency if eligible is far from guaranteed. Simply a wild assumption on your part.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

I couldn't care less whether anyone agrees with me or not. What I will not allow is for the facts to be disregarded.

I agree. Let's stick to the facts. Shortell has obviously been an egregious dumpster fire in Big Ten road games:

On the road, in the Big Ten over the last two years:

Gray: 36-of-73 passing (49%); 3 TD's, 4 INT's

Shortell: 33-of-58 passing (57%): 2 TD's, 3 INT's

The important stat: Collectively, the Gophers are 0-for-5 on the road in the BT the last two seasons.
Lesson: It's hard to play on the road in the Big Ten.

 

[CentralGopher]

Through just under 10 quarters, he's just as bad or worse than last year when it comes to putting the ball in the air.

Don't know how you come up with this at all. His stats are better than they were last year so regardless of what type of competition he is playing against there simply isn't any way you can say he is as bad or worse than last year. Just what are you basing statement this on? Your own personal critique of qb play? There are no stats that say he is as bad or worse than last year.

 

[dpodoll68]

I have nothing against Gray and actually like him as the qb over Shortell but saying he would be #2 in passing efficiency if eligible is far from guaranteed. Simply a wild assumption on your part.

He doesn't have enough pass attempts to be eligible. If he did, he would be #2 in the conference rankings. I'm not assuming anything.

 

[CentralGopher]

He doesn't have enough pass attempts to be eligible. If he did, he would be #2 in the conference rankings. I'm not assuming anything.

Just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. When he has enough pass attempts we will see where he is in the rankings until then he isn't ranked and you are assuming.

 

[dpodoll68]

Just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. When he has enough pass attempts we will see where he is in the rankings until then he isn't ranked and you are assuming.

Let me try stating this a different way. When he was hurt in the Western Michigan game, he was #2 in the efficiency rankings at that time. He has since fallen out of the rankings due to not playing. No other QBs have played well enough to surpass his rating in the interim.

 

[FreakyDeke]

Let me try stating this a different way. When he was hurt in the Western Michigan game, he was #2 in the efficiency rankings at that time. He has since fallen out of the rankings due to not playing. No other QBs have played well enough to surpass his rating in the interim.

Or stated another way: if he comes back and plays at the same level (which will be tougher because of better competition) for enough passes to be eligible, he will be ranked #2.

 

[Blackhammer]

Actually they are very relevant to this conversation.

They say that against inferior teams in the more welcoming confines of TCF, Gray has slightly better QB stats than Shortel.

In our conference wins last year Gray was the difference. You must scheme to stop him . He is a playmaker. Our only legit skilled position player who can score everytime he has the ball. Ask an opposing coach who they would rather have out of their game against us. I bet everyone says Gray.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I agree; there is no doubt he is a very effective runner as a QB. However; I would absolutely hate to be a skill position player on the gopher offense with him at QB.

WR probably but not RB.

 

[play hard]

Lets move on with Max and for the future. Gray can move to back up and play if Max gets hurt. We need better offense line play and we should get healthy for Northwestern. We beat Northwestern at home and the discussion becomes mute. With Gray at QB he will run and get hurt again. The QB's that are runners's are very likely to get hurt! Gray has been out twice already in two years. He is not a pocket passer and will be suspect to more injuries.

 

[CentralGopher]

Lets move on with Max and for the future. Gray can move to back up and play if Max gets hurt. We need better offense line play and we should get healthy for Northwestern. We beat Northwestern at home and the discussion becomes mute. With Gray at QB he will run and get hurt again. The QB's that are runners's are very likely to get hurt! Gray has been out twice already in two years. He is not a pocket passer and will be suspect to more injuries.

Ironically it was when Gray was in the pocket that he got hurt. Don't think the fact that he runs a lot had anything to do with it. I'd stick with the original starter until one of them shows they are improved. So far neither one has shown much of anything except Gray is an exceptional playmaker so that is what I would stick with.

 

[Sportsfan24]

In our conference wins last year Gray was the difference. You must scheme to stop him . He is a playmaker. Our only legit skilled position player who can score everytime he has the ball. Ask an opposing coach who they would rather have out of their game against us. I bet everyone says Gray.

I agree with you that he is a playmaker. I disagree at the legitimacy of our other playermakers to make a play. Our wide receivers depend on Gray to get them the ball and our rb's depend on some kind of blocking up front. If defenses disregard the past and stack the line because they don't respect the Gophers passing game; until Gray can consistently make those defenses pay by being productive threw the air, I don't believe it's fair to lay their lack of productivity at their feet.

 

[Sportsfan24]

Right, because all you are worried about is me, me, me, and the next level. But, for someone who cares about the success of the TEAM they may not hate him at qb

If we are going to make it black and white...you are correct, that is all I care about. You are extremely naive if you believe for one moment EVERYONE is not concerned about how they fit into the equasion.

Remember, only players have to move on...coaches, AD's, Presidents, sports announcers, referee's are allowed to stay until they are fired but they understandably look to better their situation.

And for the record; I don't know of anyone who has been more loyal and giving than me and mine.

 

[Sportsfan24]

WR probably but not RB.

Ummm I don't know. If I'm a running back (which I was in a previous life), I would cringe knowing it was a running play and I'm standing 7 yards deep looking at a defense play 8 of 9 in the box.

If the team is winning....who cares. But if the team is losing and fans, media are laughing at you it makes it tough.....ESPECIALLY if the guy who is the reason for teams stacking the line preventing you from being a factor in the game is being applauded as the only player that is legitimate on your side of the ball?!

I don't want to be considered a Gray hater (to late huh? because I actually believe he was given a raw deal when it comes to him playing QB. We didn't have the most organized plan when it came to his development as a QB. We had multiple offenses, O-coords and QB coaches. Then when he finally get's to take the field he has a inexperienced team around him.

Ahhh hell what do I know, when I think of it like that maybe I am being to harsh?