Shortell's future

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Go Gophers Rah said:
The backup quarterback is always the fans' favorite player on the team. As of this week, that backup (kinda) QB is Marquis. Its convenient to think we would have won the game with Q, but we'll never know.

I do have faith in this coaching staff. After spending last year, this spring and this summer with all the QBs, they decided that Q gives them the best chances at success and I have no reason to second guess that.

I like Max Shortell as a player (and I'm presuming he's a good all around human being), but based on his three starts to date I hope that Marquis can return soon and that Parish is groomed to be the eventual starter.
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Perish the thought;)
 

Go Gophers Rah said:
The backup quarterback is always the fans' favorite player on the team. As of this week, that backup (kinda) QB is Marquis. Its convenient to think we would have won the game with Q, but we'll never know.

I do have faith in this coaching staff. After spending last year, this spring and this summer with all the QBs, they decided that Q gives them the best chances at success and I have no reason to second guess that.

I like Max Shortell as a player (and I'm presuming he's a good all around human being), but based on his three starts to date I hope that Marquis can return soon and that Parish is groomed to be the eventual starter.
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I think players like Gray are just better at the college level because nothing breaks down a defense in college like a mobile QB that can throw. Granted Gray isn't a great passer but I think the running ability is a lot more difficult to defend on the college level since a guy like Gray is athletic enough to out run or run though college level defenders. Now, a game more like Shortell's may be better for a pro-style offense but then Shortell has to be exceptional passing the ball. Now Shortell was bad in the last game but he's young and I think he can become a Cory Sauter type of QB.
 

Go Gophers Rah said:
The backup quarterback is always the fans' favorite player on the team. As of this week, that backup (kinda) QB is Marquis. Its convenient to think we would have won the game with Q, but we'll never know.

I do have faith in this coaching staff. After spending last year, this spring and this summer with all the QBs, they decided that Q gives them the best chances at success and I have no reason to second guess that.

I like Max Shortell as a player (and I'm presuming he's a good all around human being), but based on his three starts to date I hope that Marquis can return soon and that Parish is groomed to be the eventual starter.
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Parish?.....what you talking bout Willis?!
 

mcrow said:
Now Shortell was bad in the last game but he's young and I think he can become a Cory Sauter type of QB.
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Remember when Mason came in and tried to make Sauter an option QB? THAT was funny.
Sauter was a great throwing quarterback though.
 

Word said:
Remember when Mason came in and tried to make Sauter an option QB? THAT was funny.
Sauter was a great throwing quarterback though.
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Yeah, which raises the question of what Kill would want to do with him as the starter. He's clearly a statue back there so option isn't really in the cards.
 



mcrow said:
Yeah, which raises the question of what Kill would want to do with him as the starter. He's clearly a statue back there so option isn't really in the cards.
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I could be off, but I think if we are able to run with our RBs, we can easily run the read option with Shortell. Northwestern ran a similar offense with Bassanez and another slow QB. The difference is, they could run with their RB. We need to get to a point where teams need to sell out on our RB and I think Max is athletic enough to make some plays.

I could be wrong, I just don't think the read option requires a TON of athleticism from the QB.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I could be off, but I think if we are able to run with our RBs, we can easily run the read option with Shortell. Northwestern ran a similar offense with Bassanez and another slow QB. The difference is, they could run with their RB. We need to get to a point where teams need to sell out on our RB and I think Max is athletic enough to make some plays.

I could be wrong, I just don't think the read option requires a TON of athleticism from the QB.
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From what I remember of Bassanez he was significantly more athletic than Shortell.
 

mcrow said:
From what I remember of Bassanez he was significantly more athletic than Shortell.
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Yeah, I could be wrong about that. I don't think he was, I think he seemed relatively athletic because he ran for some yards. I could be wrong though. The other guy (who I promised to never mention, but his name rhymes with Pafka) was slow.

I looked some of it up...
He does appear to be slightly more athletic than Shortell.
He ran a 4.76 40 which is a notch slower than Weber.

(Point of reference: Ponder: 4.61; Gabbert: 4.61; Osweiler: 4.71; K. Cousins: 4.73).

So I don't know, Max would probably be in the 4.76-4.85 range....
 



Everyone should watch Northern Illinois highlights from 2010 and before..... We do not look like that offense with Shortell at the helm
 

I think we all know my position on a running quarterback.

Let's run the option!

For some reason people think I'm joking when I say this.
 

Studwell55 said:
I think we all know my position on a running quarterback.

Let's run the option!

For some reason people think I'm joking when I say this.
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No we don't all know your position....Option.....are you crazy or just stupid?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Yeah, I could be wrong about that. I don't think he was, I think he seemed relatively athletic because he ran for some yards. I could be wrong though. The other guy (who I promised to never mention, but his name rhymes with Pafka) was slow.

I am pretty sure Kafka was not slow. He looked like Mike Vick, or an Oklahoma Option QB from the Switzer era against Brewster's 7-1 team in 2008 when Brewster tried to move the ball with seconds left, from his own 20 and gave up a pick 6 to lose.

I also think Mike? Kafka is on an NFL Roster right now,
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Killjoy said:
Football is very much a mental game. The reality is that there is going to be a lot of ups and downs during a game and the season. The good coaches realize this and therefore are always teaching their players how to control their emotions. This is a young team who just experienced a very hostile environment and ran into difficulties. Coach Kill used this as a teaching moment and was able to get them pointed back in the right direction in the second half. Unfortunately some of the experts on the GopherHole haven't learned yet how to control their emotions but I am seeing improvement.:)
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Well said.
 

Studwell55 said:
I think we all know my position on a running quarterback.

Let's run the option!

For some reason people think I'm joking when I say this.
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Which would you prefer; Rickie Foggie or Sandy Stephens?
 

Studwell55 said:
I think we all know my position on a running quarterback.

Let's run the option!

For some reason people think I'm joking when I say this.
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We do run the option. The read option is the base play in Kill's offense.

Perhaps people think you are joking because you are advocating for the offense we already run.
 

I've been arguing for years we should be running some version of Paul Johnson's version of the option.

I say that because it would be a relative competitive and recruiting advantage for us.

Obviously you can't just install it now. But a boy can dream.

Kill's offense is designed to exploit all areas of the defensive front...to quickly move the ball around out of multiple formations. We're not even close to running it properly.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
The problem is the top two QB's have radically different skill sets. One can run and can't pass (slight exageration), the other can pass but can't run (no exageration).
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Gray has equal or better passing stats than Shortell. To say that one can pass and the other can't is wrong. They both pass about the same or Gray is a little better.
 

FreakyDeke said:
Gray has equal or better passing stats than Shortell. To say that one can pass and the other can't is wrong. They both pass about the same or Gray is a little better.
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People say that Gray can't pass because they had a pre-existing bias telling them that he couldn't. He doesn't look effortless and fluid when he throws like Shortell does, so that equals "can't pass" in people's minds. Yet the numbers and W/L record speak for themselves. Gray doesn't have enough pass attempts to qualify for the leaderboards, but if he did, he would still be #2 in the conference in passer rating, and only percentage points behind Martinez, most people's pick for Big Ten POY thus far. Imagine what his numbers would look like if he "could pass":rolleyes:.
 

Studwell55 said:
I've been arguing for years we should be running some version of Paul Johnson's version of the option.

I say that because it would be a relative competitive and recruiting advantage for us.

Obviously you can't just install it now. But a boy can dream.

Kill's offense is designed to exploit all areas of the defensive front...to quickly move the ball around out of multiple formations. We're not even close to running it properly.
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We disagree here. Georgia Tech is 2-3 (tough schedule is part of it), but just got clobbered by Middle Tennessee State at home and Navy is 1-3 and just got shut out by mighty San Jose State. Option was a great offense when LBs weighed 200 pounds, DLs ran 5.2 40s, and coaches put all the athletes on offense. Not so much anymore.

I think Shortell can run alright, he's just all arms and legs so it looks like he stumbling around. I think he could be reasonably effective, but in the read/option, the QB has to be more than "reasonably effective" running the ball for the offense to work.
 

I got halfway through the first page of this thread and had to quit. The offense is a work in progress due to a lack of both talent and experience. Its hard to run the rock with a line full of frosh and sophs, particularly when 2 of your starters are frosh/soph walk ons and your true soph QB is throwing the ball to walk on WRs going against a B10 team that has recruited B10 talent consistently for 10 years. Shortell will be fine but MOST QBs aren't really ready to play and be succesful until their 3rd year. This isn't a QB friendly system either where its a bunch of 5 yard routes.
 

dpodoll68 said:
People say that Gray can't pass because they had a pre-existing bias telling them that he couldn't. He doesn't look effortless and fluid when he throws like Shortell does, so that equals "can't pass" in people's minds. Yet the numbers and W/L record speak for themselves. Gray doesn't have enough pass attempts to qualify for the leaderboards, but if he did, he would still be #2 in the conference in passer rating, and only percentage points behind Martinez, most people's pick for Big Ten POY thus far. Imagine what his numbers would look like if he "could pass":rolleyes:.
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Almost speechless....

I'm guessing EVERY QUARTERBACK IN THE NATION would love for their offensive efficiency and passer rating to be determined from games against UNLV and UNH. The only other two QB's that UNLV has faced from FBS teams that don't run the option/veer so far have averaged 390 yards of passing... and they managed to do in 4 quarters of regulation time. And both were Sophomores.

Pre-existing bias? I've said a number of times that I came into this season EXTREMELY optimistic about Gray, thought he could put the Gophers on his back and make something special happen. That was after hearing for the last 9 months about how improved he was as a passer. Through just under 10 quarters, he's just as bad or worse than last year when it comes to putting the ball in the air.

It's embarassing to throw out stats this year against an FCS team and one of the worst defenses in FBS and use that as the primary evidence to say there's been major improvement. I don't know how anybody can do that with a straight face.

If/when he gets back on the field, I'll be rooting with everything I have and HOPING like heck that he gets it together and can be a true "dual threat". I would LOVE nothing more than for him to return and lead the Gophers to a bowl game this year. That would be absolutely phenomenal and if that happened I wouldn't care if Shortell never took another snap this year.

I'm merely saying I have seen very little to lead me to believe it's likely. Why does that observation cause such heartburn?
 

Gray doesn't set the schedule. He can only play against the team lined up across from him. You can't say "he can't pass" when he'd be #2 in the conference in passing efficiency if eligible. You said "he's just as bad or worse than last year when it comes to putting the ball in the air". I don't know what you're basing this on, but the stats do not support you. Thus, I am left to assume that you're seeing what you want to see regardless of what is actually there. That and the fact that you talk about our senior QB like he's a 12-year-old who's lucky to be seeing the field are what cause me "such heartburn".
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Almost speechless....

I'm guessing EVERY QUARTERBACK IN THE NATION would love for their offensive efficiency and passer rating to be determined from games against UNLV and UNH. The only other two QB's that UNLV has faced from FBS teams that don't run the option/veer so far have averaged 390 yards of passing... and they managed to do in 4 quarters of regulation time. And both were Sophomores.

Pre-existing bias? I've said a number of times that I came into this season EXTREMELY optimistic about Gray, thought he could put the Gophers on his back and make something special happen. That was after hearing for the last 9 months about how improved he was as a passer. Through just under 10 quarters, he's just as bad or worse than last year when it comes to putting the ball in the air.

It's embarassing to throw out stats this year against an FCS team and one of the worst defenses in FBS and use that as the primary evidence to say there's been major improvement. I don't know how anybody can do that with a straight face.

If/when he gets back on the field, I'll be rooting with everything I have and HOPING like heck that he gets it together and can be a true "dual threat". I would LOVE nothing more than for him to return and lead the Gophers to a bowl game this year. That would be absolutely phenomenal and if that happened I wouldn't care if Shortell never took another snap this year.

I'm merely saying I have seen very little to lead me to believe it's likely. Why does that observation cause such heartburn?
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I wasn't using this season's numbers against UNH and UNLV only, I'm talking CAREER. Gray 50.7% passer, Shortell 55%. Both have 7.1 yard per attempt average. Gray 1.4 TD/INT ratio, Shortell 1.33. Do you think these stats indicate that Shortell can throw and Gray cannot?
 

This tweet by Nate Sandell sums up my feelings on this Quarterback issue. It was tweeted at halftime on Saturday.

@NSandell: In Shortell's three Big Ten starts, #Gophers have been outscored 99-0, if you include the one quarter he played in start at Purdue

Let Shortell and Nelson fight it out next year and may the best quarterback win. They will be in the best position to succeed in Kill's 3rd year with a more seasoned offensive line. More experience at WR, and an older and wiser Kirkwood.

This year, I want the senior and his ability to create something out of nothing on a broken play, which we may see more often than we would like as the competition ramps up.
 

afurry91 said:
This tweet by Nate Sandell sums up my feelings on this Quarterback issue. It was tweeted at halftime on Saturday.

@NSandell: In Shortell's three Big Ten starts, #Gophers have been outscored 99-0, if you include the one quarter he played in start at Purdue

Let Shortell and Nelson fight it out next year and may the best quarterback win. They will be in the best position to succeed in Kill's 3rd year with a more seasoned offensive line. More experience at WR, and an older and wiser Kirkwood.

This year, I want the senior and his ability to create something out of nothing on a broken play, which we may see more often than we would like as the competition ramps up.
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AMEN!
Can we please end this thread with this and enjoy the remainder of the season, whoever the QB may be.
 

Weird stats, not really related to this conversation:

Shortell has actually started more Big Ten road games than Gray; Shortell - 3, Gray - 2

Big Ten home game starts: Gray - 4, Shortell - 0

Home Starts overall: Gray - 9, Shortell - 1
 

afurry91 said:
This tweet by Nate Sandell sums up my feelings on this Quarterback issue. It was tweeted at halftime on Saturday.

@NSandell: In Shortell's three Big Ten starts, #Gophers have been outscored 99-0, if you include the one quarter he played in start at Purdue

Let Shortell and Nelson fight it out next year and may the best quarterback win. They will be in the best position to succeed in Kill's 3rd year with a more seasoned offensive line. More experience at WR, and an older and wiser Kirkwood.

This year, I want the senior and his ability to create something out of nothing on a broken play, which we may see more often than we would like as the competition ramps up.
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BINGO! Well said. :)
 


Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Almost speechless....

I'm guessing EVERY QUARTERBACK IN THE NATION would love for their offensive efficiency and passer rating to be determined from games against UNLV and UNH. The only other two QB's that UNLV has faced from FBS teams that don't run the option/veer so far have averaged 390 yards of passing... and they managed to do in 4 quarters of regulation time. And both were Sophomores.

Pre-existing bias? I've said a number of times that I came into this season EXTREMELY optimistic about Gray, thought he could put the Gophers on his back and make something special happen. That was after hearing for the last 9 months about how improved he was as a passer. Through just under 10 quarters, he's just as bad or worse than last year when it comes to putting the ball in the air.

It's embarassing to throw out stats this year against an FCS team and one of the worst defenses in FBS and use that as the primary evidence to say there's been major improvement. I don't know how anybody can do that with a straight face.

If/when he gets back on the field, I'll be rooting with everything I have and HOPING like heck that he gets it together and can be a true "dual threat". I would LOVE nothing more than for him to return and lead the Gophers to a bowl game this year. That would be absolutely phenomenal and if that happened I wouldn't care if Shortell never took another snap this year.

I'm merely saying I have seen very little to lead me to believe it's likely. Why does that observation cause such heartburn?
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Great points!

I would also add that teams double dog dare Gray to pass by loading the box to stop him from running. Resulting in Gray getting much different (far easier) defensive schemes to pass against that Shortel.

As to having a bias. I do, I have a bias for QB's who can throw! I'm joking dpodoll68. I was as big a Gray fan as anyone at the start of last season; I still am, I just want him at the position he will play next season.
 

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