Shedeur Sanders’ Slide in NFL Draft Cost Him $44 Million

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oleboy41 said:
Mentioning Whitlock and Jemelle Hill in the same sentence is wild as they're polar opposites.

Also, while I don't personally think race was much of a factor in the Sanders situation, the folks that somehow manage to act offended at the suggestion that race is an issue are hilarious to me. They get way more up in arms about the idea of unfounded accusations of racism than they do about the actual factual racism and affects of it that are all over the place.

Also, all those

All these guys played before the mock draft boom and before social media. Also pretty much all of these guys had known and obvious weaknesses everyone knew about and most played in offenses that weren't considered pro style. So no offense but that's kind of a weak argument. The reality is that this was more about the mock draft media than anything else. And the truth is that however you want to label it, Sanders being a brash, cocky, jewelry wearing black kid was seen as a 'flag' for a lot of folks. What roll it played in NFL teams evaluations is impossible to tell. What I will say is that it's clear he has real physical limitations and that's the biggest, most obvious factor in him being a late round pick
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I get what you are oleboy, but I do think that outrage or taking massive offense to a charge of racism is natural. It’s a serious thing to allege(as it should be) that can ruin people whether it is true or not.

But I don’t really think race was much of a factor in Sanders case. I think that many “experts” and mock drafters spent well over a year pretending to know what the NFL thought of Sanders and they were way off. And those folks hate it when the curtain gets pulled back on the fact that were really just guessing.
 

WoodburyTim said:
I get what you are oleboy, but I do think that outrage or taking massive offense to a charge of racism is natural. It’s a serious thing to allege(as it should be) that can ruin people whether it is true or not.

But I don’t really think race was much of a factor in Sanders case. I think that many “experts” and mock drafters spent well over a year pretending to know what the NFL thought of Sanders and they were way off. And those folks hate it when the curtain gets pulled back on the fact that were really just guessing.
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I don't think the NFL took race into consideration. I think the NFL will draft anyone high they thing will win games. It's more the media reaction calling it racism. NFL does not care. There are plenty of black QBs in the league and most of them don't act like complete jackasses.
 

WoodburyTim said:
I think there will always be polarizing because of his playing style. Manziel being the other glaring example. The scrambling gunslinger is fun to watch and very effective in college and it makes sense that we want that style to be effective in the NFL, but it just isn’t.
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I think running QBs seem like they give you more "options" on the surface, but generally running QBs are running around because they couldn't find an option... and that's not really a good thing.
 


mcrow47 said:
I don't think the NFL took race into consideration. I think the NFL will draft anyone high they thing will win games. It's more the media reaction calling it racism. NFL does not care. There are plenty of black QBs in the league and most of them don't act like complete jackasses.
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The NFL cares about money and winning. You can always count on that.
 


oleboy41 said:
And the truth is that however you want to label it, Sanders being a brash, cocky, jewelry wearing black kid was seen as a 'flag' for a lot of folks. What roll it played in NFL teams evaluations is impossible to tell. What I will say is that it's clear he has real physical limitations and that's the biggest, most obvious factor in him being a late round pick
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What you mention here may certainly be an issue for some people but the NFL will overlook all of that if they think a kid can play.

Now you combine a bad attitude with some ability but not top flight talent and you get a 5th round draft pick
 

mcrow47 said:
There are plenty of black QBs in the league and most of them don't act like complete jackasses.
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You could have simplified that sentence to read: "There are plenty of QBs in the league and most of them don't act like complete jackasses."
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I think running QBs seem like they give you more "options" on the surface, but generally running QBs are running around because they couldn't find an option... and that's not really a good thing.
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Yeah in the NFL you have to be able to throw. You get guys like Jackson and Daniels who can really be threats on the ground or guys like Hurts and Allen who are essentially goal line backs when their team gets down there......but for the most part running QBs just don't last long in the NFL.
 




A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I think his point is that it's not likely racism if nobody has a problem picking up black QBs generally.
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Yes, there were people in the media saying the NFL doesn't like black culture trying to put off Sanders behavior as being normal black behavior. My point that it is not and you can see how the other QBs who happen to be black conduct themselves as proof it's not normal. It was being made out they're hating on him for being a black man. But when I look at Lamar Jackson and the others in the league, this is not how they acted. This is a Sanders being a privileged jackass issue, not a race issue. And as you said, I don't think there's any case to be made that black players are being held back from being QBs anymore.
 

WoodburyTim said:
I get what you are oleboy, but I do think that outrage or taking massive offense to a charge of racism is natural. It’s a serious thing to allege(as it should be) that can ruin people whether it is true or not.

But I don’t really think race was much of a factor in Sanders case. I think that many “experts” and mock drafters spent well over a year pretending to know what the NFL thought of Sanders and they were way off. And those folks hate it when the curtain gets pulled back on the fact that were really just guessing.
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Ehhhhh. I think that's an overly generous outlook to give to a society that has in no way, shape or form earned it. A society that has categorically proven to only address racism when the very thing you speak of happens: People making loud, constant accusations of it. There has literally never been a time when racist practices have been shifted without it. So when people get up in arms about accusations of racism, I often wonder if they realize that these are literally the same reactions that every generation has had towards them albeit on different scales. Anytime black americans in particular point these things out they are always met with pushback both from the hardcore racists as well as the 'moderates'. Those folks who don't intentionally engage in racism but tend to respond negatively to the idea that it actually exists. I seriously doubt people who reacted negatively to the idea that there were racial implications were doing so out of concern for the well being of the highly paid coaches of the NFL who they advocate to be fired whenever they don't like their playcalling. They don't like it because it's often a potential mirror into their own true thoughts and most folks don't want to take too close of a look. In my humble opinion.
 

MNVCGUY said:
What you mention here may certainly be an issue for some people but the NFL will overlook all of that if they think a kid can play.

Now you combine a bad attitude with some ability but not top flight talent and you get a 5th round draft pick
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I think its way more about the gifts than the attitude. I'm not sure what he's done that makes anyone label him as having a truly bad attitude. He's cocky, he celebrates, and he's unapologetic. But so are tons of QBs.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Yeah in the NFL you have to be able to throw. You get guys like Jackson and Daniels who can really be threats on the ground or guys like Hurts and Allen who are essentially goal line backs when their team gets down there......but for the most part running QBs just don't last long in the NFL.
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oleboy41 said:
Ehhhhh. I think that's an overly generous outlook to give to a society that has in no way, shape or form earned it. A society that has categorically proven to only address racism when the very thing you speak of happens: People making loud, constant accusations of it. There has literally never been a time when racist practices have been shifted without it. So when people get up in arms about accusations of racism, I often wonder if they realize that these are literally the same reactions that every generation has had towards them albeit on different scales. Anytime black americans in particular point these things out they are always met with pushback both from the hardcore racists as well as the 'moderates'. Those folks who don't intentionally engage in racism but tend to respond negatively to the idea that it actually exists. I seriously doubt people who reacted negatively to the idea that there were racial implications were doing so out of concern for the well being of the highly paid coaches of the NFL who they advocate to be fired whenever they don't like their playcalling. They don't like it because it's often a potential mirror into their own true thoughts and most folks don't want to take too close of a look. In my humble opinion.
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Hmm okay. Well I think every person regardless of color deserves to be judged on their own actions and merits. I don't think we are going to agree on that, so might be best to end this conversation now and call it a day.
 

mcrow47 said:
I don't think the NFL took race into consideration. I think the NFL will draft anyone high they thing will win games. It's more the media reaction calling it racism. NFL does not care. There are plenty of black QBs in the league and most of them don't act like complete jackasses.
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The simple counterpoint to that is that
Gophers1992 said:
He has thrown his O line under the bus after games, plus this little gem https://www.si.com/fannation/college/cfb-hq/colorado-football-deion-sanders-shedeur-twitter-spat
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I do remember a bit about the Oline stuff. Not great. The Twitter thing is hilarious though. NFL types don't like QBs to have personalities though
 

WoodburyTim said:
Hmm okay. Well I think every person regardless of color deserves to be judged on their own actions and merits. I don't think we are going to agree on that, so might be best to end this conversation now and call it a day.
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As do I. But you also can't ignore reality when doing so. Its like starting a 100m dash at the 50m mark then pretending that doesn't affect the results. Certain groups have hoarded resources and exploited others for centuries so unfortunately the 'well lets just start being kind to everyone now' (while refusing to loosen their grip on those immorally gained resources) is a self serving approach to topics such as race. Even with Sanders, we know the NFL was wildly racist when it came to black QBs for most of it's existence but still certain people get all up in arms about the suggestion that it could be a factor like we don't have mounds of evidence of this very thing being a problem in this league. 'We know they used to refuse to even let black people play QB in my lifetime but how dare they imply that some people in this sports league full of jocks may have some prejudice thoughts!'
 


oleboy41 said:
As do I. But you also can't ignore reality when doing so. Its like starting a 100m dash at the 50m mark then pretending that doesn't affect the results. Certain groups have hoarded resources and exploited others for centuries so unfortunately the 'well lets just start being kind to everyone now' (while refusing to loosen their grip on those immorally gained resources) is a self serving approach to topics such as race. Even with Sanders, we know the NFL was wildly racist when it came to black QBs for most of it's existence but still certain people get all up in arms about the suggestion that it could be a factor like we don't have mounds of evidence of this very thing being a problem in this league. 'We know they used to refuse to even let black people play QB in my lifetime but how dare they imply that some people in this sports league full of jocks may have some prejudice thoughts!'
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I admittedly haven't read through all 8 pages of this thread so I don't have the background here, but is the suggestion that Shedeur is a victim or at least having his evaluation tainted by unconscious boas/racism? I'm not making accusations, because like I said I haven't rad all the back and forth here, but nothing in this comment, to me, seems relevant to Shedeur's play.
 

Gophers1992 said:
I admittedly haven't read through all 8 pages of this thread
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You don't want to dig through 8 pages of:


giphy.gif



Why not!!?!?!?
 

Gophers1992 said:
I admittedly haven't read through all 8 pages of this thread so I don't have the background here, but is the suggestion that Shedeur is a victim or at least having his evaluation tainted by unconscious boas/racism? I'm not making accusations, because like I said I haven't rad all the back and forth here, but nothing in this comment, to me, seems relevant to Shedeur's play.
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I think a lot of people have posed that as a possibility. Im not really one of them, but I think its a valid thing to at least wonder about given the history of the NFL and black QBs. I think Sanders is a minus athlete with real flaws as a QB
 

oleboy41 said:
I think a lot of people have posed that as a possibility. Im not really one of them, but I think its a valid thing to at least wonder about given the history of the NFL and . I think Sanders is a minus athlete with real flaws as a QB
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There are plenty of successful black QBs going back to the 80s. That’s 40 years ago.
I can’t think of any primadonna, super flashy and brash personality types, that you find in a lot of successful WRs and DBs, who have been successful at QB. Black or white. Ryan Leaf, Johnny Manziel would be white examples. Black QBs who have been great: Russell Wilson, Warren Moon, Doug Williams, Mahomes, even Lamar. Successful qbs of any race seem to have that in common.
 

Section2 said:
There are plenty of successful black QBs going back to the 80s. That’s 40 years ago.
I can’t think of any primadonna, super flashy and brash personality types, that you find in a lot of successful WRs and DBs, who have been successful at QB. Black or white. Ryan Leaf, Johnny Manziel would be white examples. Black QBs who have been great: Russell Wilson, Warren Moon, Doug Williams, Mahomes, even Lamar. Successful qbs of any race seem to have that in common.
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The NFL doesn't want it's QBs to have opinions or personalities. Really any of it's players but especially QBs. As for 'plenty' of black QBs, I'd disagree. Half the QBs in the league (rough estimate) are black now. Do we think it's because black people just started playing QB? The NFL isn't alone as CFB has some part to play, but even one you mentioned, Warren Moon, felt that he had to go to the CFL to prove that he could, in fact, play QB.
 

oleboy41 said:
The NFL doesn't want it's QBs to have opinions or personalities. Really any of it's players but especially QBs. As for 'plenty' of black QBs, I'd disagree. Half the QBs in the league (rough estimate) are black now. Do we think it's because black people just started playing QB? The NFL isn't alone as CFB has some part to play, but even one you mentioned, Warren Moon, felt that he had to go to the CFL to prove that he could, in fact, play QB.
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40 years ago you’d have a strong argument.
Today? Nonsense. Multiple black QBs have been drafted first overall. All of them had opinions and personalities, they just weren’t assholes.
 

oleboy41 said:
The NFL doesn't want it's QBs to have opinions or personalities. Really any of it's players but especially QBs. As for 'plenty' of black QBs, I'd disagree. Half the QBs in the league (rough estimate) are black now. Do we think it's because black people just started playing QB? The NFL isn't alone as CFB has some part to play, but even one you mentioned, Warren Moon, felt that he had to go to the CFL to prove that he could, in fact, play QB.
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Warren Moon played 45 years ago. smh
 

Section2 said:
40 years ago you’d have a strong argument.
Today? Nonsense. Multiple black QBs have been drafted first overall. All of them had opinions and personalities, they just weren’t assholes.
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And were for the most part actually good QBs
 

Section2 said:
40 years ago you’d have a strong argument.
Today? Nonsense. Multiple black QBs have been drafted first overall. All of them had opinions and personalities, they just weren’t assholes.
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You were literally speaking of 40 years ago which is what I responded to. You may want to re-read both comments my guy
 

mggoph said:
Warren Moon played 45 years ago. smh
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Which is what the poster stated. And what I responded to. So not sure why you're shaking your head at me when he cited Warren Moon in his post and I responded with the perception of black QBs during his time. SMH
 

Without reading the essays above, are people actually arguing that Sanders is being shafted because he's black?
 

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