Seth Davis: Ben Johnson has done an incredible job with this team. One of the elite coaches in one of the toughest jobs in America.

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Bob_Loblaw said:
Even you could not be dumb enough to have this opinion. Just admit that you're in the midst of a nihilistic cope when it comes to Ben Johnson.

Just because we paid $2 million for a $70,000 coach does not mean that it would be impossible to improve the program by hiring a $2million coach. It's really simple. Ben Johnson is not even worthy of being the lowest paid coach in the Big 10. He is not worthy of coaching in the MAC.
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Not worthy of coaching in the MAC but somehow finished 9th in the B1G last year and somehow has 7 wins in the B1G this year with the worst roster of all time per some on GH. Got it.
 

Dave H said:
Re-read your post...you are talking about the U "building their case". The same U that can barely market themselves out of a paper bag when they have teams that are decent and fans that care is somehow building a case with a media who could care less trying to keep a coach none of the fans want or will pay to go see? And they are apparently so good at it that all the media is eating it up and helping them with their "case". (to believe that is to believe the stupid things Doogie tweets because that is all this stuff is)

You cant have it both ways, either the U is completely inept and so disorganized they can't run an Athletic Department (likely) or they are super genius level shmoozers who would rather lose money as long as they can curry influence with the local media that is dying and a national media that ignores them.

I see this crap all the time all over the place...people who are too invested and way too close to a decision who twist themselves into knots trying to prove that every horse they see is a zebra even though it is just a horse. The U isn't making a case for anything, the media is for their own selfish reasons that aren't even that hard to understand. And when the Gophers are eliminated from the BTT and everyone is ignoring them again the U will almost assuredly fire Johnson and the worry and anxiety will flip to some other version of all of us trying to vent our anxieties and frustrations. (the U will be cheap, the U wont interview the people Seth Davis likes, the media is pushing their guy, Coyle is a moron...etc)
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It was click bait. The entire industry now is based largely on "traffic". Seth Davis did his job. People are talking about it. Some are already making doomsday preparations. But more importantly, they are returning to the site and tuning in to see if his prophecy becomes reality. Translation: $$$$
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Why would a lawyer without Twitter or X need to understand the pinning functionality of Twitter?
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You don't need to know that but you probably shouldn't post like you know otherwise. It makes you look stupid
 


Johnnyboy18 said:
Not worthy of coaching in the MAC but somehow finished 9th in the B1G last year and somehow has 7 wins in the B1G this year with the worst roster of all time per some on GH. Got it.
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Yeah, he couldn't get a job in the MAC before our charity hire. If there were over/under on how many wins would any MAC coach get in the Big 10 in their first 4 seasons, I would take over 22 on every single one of them.
 

Arealgopherfan said:
As you read the fire BJ crowds comments here on Seth Davis' post, I would encourage you to go back and read their predictions on how many Big 10 wins the Gophers will have this year.

You will find their win predictions to be on par with the reaction to Davis. Let's just say they were & are terrible wrong in both instances. My favorite is USAF's zero win prediction. And he is not alone in vastly underestimating this team and coaching staff.

The fire BJ crowd sure know their basketball. LOL.
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Troll.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Yeah, he couldn't get a job in the MAC before our charity hire. If there were over/under on how many wins would any MAC coach get in the Big 10 in their first 4 seasons, I would take over 22 on every single one of them.
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You're right Bob. He probably couldn't even get a job for a varsity high school team at this point. I'm sure if the U replaces him, the U will soar to new heights and definitely won't still be a bottom tier B1G basketball school. Looking forward to it.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
You don't need to know that but you probably shouldn't post like you know otherwise. It makes you look stupid
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Then why bring up a law degree and needing to know the functionality of Twitter?

You think knowing the pinning protocol of Twitter changed the substance of my post? I know you're incredibly stupid, so I'll walk you through it. You seem to be trying to mock people on here that pointed at Marcus and LEN support for Ben Johnson as be DEI apologies. You thought you were clever and found some online pundit who thinks Ben needs another year. For whatever reason, you didn't look at that pundit, who is. . . wait for it . . . a DEI apologist.

You're so stupid that the first good point you made in this thread was accidentally proving yourself wrong.
 



Johnnyboy18 said:
You're right Bob. He probably couldn't even get a job for a varsity high school team at this point. I'm sure if the U replaces him, the U will soar to new heights and definitely won't still be a bottom tier B1G basketball school. Looking forward to it.
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You argue like a chick. Your point was awful, so now you're doing this weird irony/sarcasm thing.

I think he could definitely coach HS or some lower level. He could also get another assistant job. It's kind of like Ryan Saunders, now that he has this on his resume (undeservedly), he might also get another smaller D1 job.

Just so you know, simply being a bottom tier B1G basketball program would be SOARING in comparison to where Ben Johnson has this program. Since Ben has arrived, we have the fewest wins in the Big 10. Every Big 10 team has been to the NCAAA tournament since our last appearance. I believe every team except Nebraska has been TWICE since our last appearance.

We aren't just a bottom tier B1G basketball program, we are the worst program in the B1G. The worst.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Then why bring up a law degree and needing to know the functionality of Twitter?

You think knowing the pinning protocol of Twitter changed the substance of my post? I know you're incredibly stupid, so I'll walk you through it. You seem to be trying to mock people on here that pointed at Marcus and LEN support for Ben Johnson as be DEI apologies. You thought you were clever and found some online pundit who thinks Ben needs another year. For whatever reason, you didn't look at that pundit, who is. . . wait for it . . . a DEI apologist.

You're so stupid that the first good point you made in this thread was accidentally proving yourself wrong.
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A DEI apologist for posting that Anthony Grant and Dawn Staley are the 1st African American coaches to win an award in 10+ years?

Your above post would make sense if on the same thread he wasn't saying other African American coaches should be fired or won't work out but nonetheless he is saying that. But you're right Seth Davis and a coaching insider only have this opinion because they're 'DEI apologist'.
 

mngg11 said:
I mean, I can equally point out that you're oversimplifying a concept that is inherently complicated and your oversimplification to make your point loses the argument. Neither response is the right one and the reality falls somewhere in between.

Also, garbage picking and coaching a major college basketball program are an awful comparison. One job is the same every day, the other changes daily and yearly, especially as of late with the major changes taking place over the entire cbb landscape. You can absolutely boil it down to wins and losses, but with that thought process, probably greater than 50% of the coaching population should be jettisoned from their respective programs and never be allowed to step foot on a court again. It's not realistic.

And mind you, at no point have I said that Johnson should be retained or deserves an extention, based on numbers alone, yes, he should be replaced. However, I've been primarily complaining about the extreme takes from some like he should've never even been considered for this job in the first place along with the complete disregard by many about the moments he's shown he's competence in the face of all of these people stating otherwise. I despise disingenuity and how it's become so commonplace, especially with the spite that's associated with that behavior (this isn't directed towards you, but generally). I also hate how practically every topic has a political slant nowadays and how this particular topic is constantly steered in that direction by a handful of fringe folk. They aren't helping the "he should be replaced because of his record" detractors' cause because they have to shove their political bullshit down everyone's throat at every opportunity they can.
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It is not an extreme take to say he should never have been considered for the job. I cannot think of a person with less of a resume that has ever been given a B1G basketball position. I actually think it's less of an extreme take to say he should never have been hired than it is to say he should get another season. I can, at least, see the argument for why he should be retained. I can think of other examples of similar coaches who were retained. I cannot think of an example of any coach with a resume like Ben Johnson's being hired to coach a B1G basketball program. I actually think it's a pretty extreme take to argue he should have been considered.

Your definition of competence is likely much different than everyone else's. No program in the B1G has won fewer games than the U since Ben arrived.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You argue like a chick. Your point was awful, so now you're doing this weird irony/sarcasm thing.

I think he could definitely coach HS or some lower level. He could also get another assistant job. It's kind of like Ryan Saunders, now that he has this on his resume (undeservedly), he might also get another smaller D1 job.

Just so you know, simply being a bottom tier B1G basketball program would be SOARING in comparison to where Ben Johnson has this program. Since Ben has arrived, we have the fewest wins in the Big 10. Every Big 10 team has been to the NCAAA tournament since our last appearance. I believe every team except Nebraska has been TWICE since our last appearance.

We aren't just a bottom tier B1G basketball program, we are the worst program in the B1G. The worst.
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The worst program hasn't finished last the last 2 years. I can get down with that, great point.
 




Johnnyboy18 said:
A DEI apologist for posting that Anthony Grant and Dawn Staley are the 1st African American coaches to win an award in 10+ years?

Your above post would make sense if on the same thread he wasn't saying other African American coaches should be fired or won't work out but nonetheless he is saying that. But you're right Seth Davis and a coaching insider only have this opinion because they're 'DEI apologist'.
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I never said Seth Davis was a DEI apologist. I said the random guy you quoted as not being a DEI apologist whose top two tweets were both DEI mumbo jumbo.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
What B1G program has been worse than ours while Ben Johnson has been here?
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What B1G programs have been worse than ours the last 2 years that Ben has been here? Most coaches are fired when the wins decline year over year. If they lose out I could see a move being made but otherwise I doubt it. Like I said I don't really care either way because the program is what it is. I'd compare college football and basketball to the MLB as it's currently set up. Fire managers and coaches all you want but if you're not paying for a good roster you should expect to get bottom tier results.
 
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Johnnyboy18 said:
Finished 9th last year with the 14th salary and will finish above 18th this year with the 18th salary. If he gets fired and we repeat the 18th salary with the next coach. Where do you think the next coach will rank in the B1G?
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So if we pay the highest rate for BT coaches we finish first! You cracked the code.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
So if we pay the highest rate for BT coaches we finish first! You cracked the code.
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If there was a coach out there that would donate his entire salary to NIL, I'd think the results would match up with that pretty closely if they are close to an average coach!
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
You're right Bob. He probably couldn't even get a job for a varsity high school team at this point. I'm sure if the U replaces him, the U will soar to new heights and definitely won't still be a bottom tier B1G basketball school. Looking forward to it.
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If Ben is fired he will surely get an assistant coaching gig if he wants one. It's very unlikely he will immediately get another Division I head coaching job. Do you dispute this?
 

Bad Gopher said:
He's created a Frankenstein's monster!

Seriously, this flurry of media buzz... It makes me wonder, as EG speculated, whether word has gotten out in the basketball community that Johnson will be let go, and people are reacting to that without spilling the beans. Reacting to either influence Coyle to not follow through, or passive-aggressively to make Minnesota look bad when and if they make the move.

The Gophers are not darlings among the NCAA punditry, and it dates back to the academic fraud. We've been ostracized like no other cheater in memory has. The punditry surely knows that our cheating was not remarkable compared to things that went on and continue to go on to keep players eligible. We were the willing sacrifice who took on everyone else's sins, haha. The punishment must be perpetual to be sufficient.

Our rivals certainly want to keep us down. It serves no useful purpose in the world for Minnesota to rise and become relevant again. Even locally, the Gophers would only divert attention from the big-money pro teams. Not saying it's a conspiracy, but it's definitely the zeitgeist right now.
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A cabal of Wisconsin, Iowa, St. Thomas and Gavin Newsome. It's a powerful force.
 

Bad Gopher said:
So, what's left? How he dresses on the sideline? 👎 His presence on social media and how well he uses it to connect with fans and keep them up to date on things? 👎 His ability to explain and articulate matters of interest to fans and observers of the program in his post-game remarks and weekly radio show? 👎 What other measures of performance have I left out?
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The new baseball coach has already had more meaningful social media engagement than the basketball coach has had in four years.

 



howeda7 said:
If Ben is fired he will surely get an assistant coaching gig if he wants one. It's very unlikely he will immediately get another Division I head coaching job. Do you dispute this?
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Currently if he drops down a level or 2 in coaching, I'm pretty sure he could get a division 1 job. If he was fired after the 1st 2 years I would doubt it. If I was the AD I would have fired him after the 2nd year for rolling with Samuels, Carrington and Henley as the 2 guard options but that didn't happen.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Finished 9th last year with the 14th salary and will finish above 18th this year with the 18th salary. If he gets fired and we repeat the 18th salary with the next coach. Where do you think the next coach will rank in the B1G?
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Unfortunately, Big Ten standing doesn't really mean anything. Last year we finished 12th out of 14 teams in the NET, and this year we are 17th out of 18 teams. His first 2 years we finished 13th and 14th respectively. Collectively, he's finished on avg, one spot higher than what his salary is rank is.
 


Dave H said:
What point do you think you are making? So people thought the team would be terrible...they are just "pretty bad" and somehow that shows Ben is a good coach who deserves to keep his job? That might work at Applebees but not in any job where performance matters.

Two things can be true:

1) The team is objectively better than we thought it would be.
2) It is not good enough to justify keeping him around.

Keep trying though.

(I don't know who you really are but you stink of PBU and I bet you are hardly a Gopher Fan)
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My point is this. If you look at the actual language of Davis' comments, all he did is sited his opinion, followed by his reasons for his opinion.

"Ben Johnson has done an incredible job with this team. One of the elite coaches in one of the toughest jobs in America." He went on to site the following factors as his reason for saying so: "Tough league, brutal weather, outdated facilities, minimal NIL $$".

So how does the fire Ben Johnson crowd respond. Predictaby, with their fire Ben Johnson chant. Oh, and they are very offended by the word "elite" being used, and the weather being a mentioned factor. On the big factors of NIL and facilities, crickets.

The fact is there are major, non-coach related reasons for Gopher basketball's current state. And until those reasons are addressed, hiring a new coach is not going to be the panacea the fire Ben Johnson crowd thinks it will be.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Unfortunately, Big Ten standing doesn't really mean anything. Last year we finished 12th out of 14 teams in the NET, and this year we are 17th out of 18 teams. His first 2 years we finished 13th and 14th respectively. Collectively, he's finished on avg, one spot higher than what his salary is rank is.
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I'm sure the teams that miss out on the Big Ten tournament or played/play on weakling Wednesday would beg to differ.
 


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