Seth Davis: Ben Johnson has done an incredible job with this team. One of the elite coaches in one of the toughest jobs in America.

[gregbrady]

Yeah, he couldn't get a job in the MAC before our charity hire. If there were over/under on how many wins would any MAC coach get in the Big 10 in their first 4 seasons, I would take over 22 on every single one of them.

Lookup John Groce, who went from Ohio U to Illinois and won 29 games his first four years in the B1G, probably should’ve been let go, but they gave him a 5th and didn’t do much better and they let him go. Now he’s back in the MAC and has Akron playing very well.

 

[Gopheritnow]

9 pages since Sat afternoon. This is gonna wipe the FBJ post off the leader board at this rate.

Hell hath no fury like a FBJ poster scorned.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Lookup John Groce, who went from Ohio U to Illinois and won 29 games his first four years in the B1G, probably should’ve been let go, but they gave him a 5th and didn’t do much better and they let him go. Now he’s back in the MAC and has Akron playing very well.

I was just thinking about Groce the other day! I really liked the guy and thought he was an impressive man and coach, but he couldn't get it done at Illinois. At the time, people were wondering out loud whether Illinois might be one of the more difficult jobs in the Big Ten, speculating that, even though the recruiting grounds were fertile with Chicago close by, it was tough to recruit there without cheating, and Groce was not a cheater. That was some of the chatter at that time, at least. Obviously, Lou Henson had been successful there, but there were always murmurings that he was dirty. Then Bruce Weber had some success, getting them to the national final, but ultimately couldn't sustain it and was dismissed. Because Groce was well liked and regarded, the punditry concluded that it was just an impossible situation and the lack of success no fault of his. Sound familiar? That's why I was thinking about him the other day.

 

[Gophers7633]

I'm sure the teams that miss out on the Big Ten tournament or played/play on weakling Wednesday would beg to differ.

If playing in the B1GT actually meant something towards making the actual NCAA Tournament it would mean something. Unfortunately, for us it really doesn't. I'm glad it appears we will make it because I enjoy watching as much Gophers bball as possible, but unless we win it, it won't change much.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

Look hockey makes money and that is great (it is my fave sport) but more people watch reruns of Big Bang Theory than watch even the best hockey matchups. I know it sounds like I am exaggerating but I am pretty sure BTN was bragging that they got 159k people to watch a game a month or so ago. (one of the top viewership numbers they have had)

I certainly believe that hockey doesn't generate the TV money that basketball does but I don't think it's so unlikely that there are more college hockey fans than gopher basketball fans in this state. Hockey is the one sport where all of the larger state universities field D1 teams so it provides for significant in-state rivalries. This state also produces more D1 hockey players than any other (according to a publication I read about two years ago). Do you know the values of NIL for hockey vs. men's basketball?

 

[JZABR]

Everything you said is true. Remember this: They hired this same guy who had never been a head coach. Anywhere. To do this job. To me, that's crazy.

I think it is time to move on.

They are building a case that:

1. Ben has done well with the talent he has this year. Let's face it- who among us thought 7-8 wins was possible at the start of the conference season?
2. He had the beginnings of a talented team last year with Hawkins and Payne now starting on top 20 squads- but the NIL wasn't there to keep them (I blame that partly on Ben).
3. We will have the money to compete next year so Ben can do this if he has the financial backing.

That's their case. Not mine.

I don't like his offensive scheme or his defense. I don't like how he uses the bench. I don't like how he uses his timeouts. I don't think he's any better than an average recruiter. I don't think he has managed or built rosters. He has mostly brought in guards that lack speed- Hawkins and Asuma being the exceptions. He brings in guys that can't shoot or are otherwise one dimensional. The bench gets shorter as the season goes on and guys disappear.

To his credit- his teams play hard and he brings in good attitude/character kids. That is a plus for sure.

Completely agree. There's a difference between we want / feel the need to happen vs what we think will happen. Yes, his players seem to really play hard for him. That is appreciated by us fans. His bench usage always has frustrated me, and I'm not alone in this. The defense has been the better calling card vs the offense. Having am actual play maker / shot creator makes the offense look 10x better than what an offense like ours looks like right now.
There will be no shortage of coaches who will jump at the opportunity to coach a B1G team and same goes for mid-major players.

 

[Blackhammer]

Per Doogie, they're "thrilled" with their current assistants and wouldn't want any changes.

Can’t recruit or coach Xs and Os . I guess if they get better job offers my statement would be proven wrong.

 

[JZABR]

Everything you said is true. Remember this: They hired this same guy who had never been a head coach. Anywhere. To do this job. To me, that's crazy.

I think it is time to move on.

They are building a case that:

1. Ben has done well with the talent he has this year. Let's face it- who among us thought 7-8 wins was possible at the start of the conference season?
2. He had the beginnings of a talented team last year with Hawkins and Payne now starting on top 20 squads- but the NIL wasn't there to keep them (I blame that partly on Ben).
3. We will have the money to compete next year so Ben can do this if he has the financial backing.

That's their case. Not mine.

I don't like his offensive scheme or his defense. I don't like how he uses the bench. I don't like how he uses his timeouts. I don't think he's any better than an average recruiter. I don't think he has managed or built rosters. He has mostly brought in guards that lack speed- Hawkins and Asuma being the exceptions. He brings in guys that can't shoot or are otherwise one dimensional. The bench gets shorter as the season goes on and guys disappear.

To his credit- his teams play hard and he brings in good attitude/character kids. That is a plus for sure.

Completely agree. There's a difference between we want / feel the need to happen vs what we think will happen. Yes, his players seem to really play hard for him. That is appreciated by us fans. His bench usage always has frustrated me, and I'm not alone in this. The defense has been the better calling card vs the offense. Having am actual play maker / shot creator makes the offense look 10x better than what an offense like ours looks like right now.
There will be no shortage of coaches who will jump at the opportunity to coach a B1G team and same goes for mid-major players.

 

[gregbrady]

I was just thinking about Groce the other day! I really liked the guy and thought he was an impressive man and coach, but he couldn't get it done at Illinois. At the time, people were wondering out loud whether Illinois might be one of the more difficult jobs in the Big Ten, speculating that, even though the recruiting grounds were fertile with Chicago close by, it was tough to recruit there without cheating, and Groce was not a cheater. That was some of the chatter at that time, at least. Obviously, Lou Henson had been successful there, but there were always murmurings that he was dirty. Then Bruce Weber had some success, getting them to the national final, but ultimately couldn't sustain it and was dismissed. Because Groce was well liked and regarded, the punditry concluded that it was just an impossible situation and the lack of success no fault of his. Sound familiar? That's why I was thinking about him the other day.

Some Illinois fans consider it their dark period when it hit rock bottom, yet he went to 1 NCAA and 3 NIT’s in 5 years and he was let go for not winning enough. I’m sure he couldn’t get the players, as they say ‘it’s not the x’s & I’d, it’s the Jimmy’s and the Joes!

 

[WindyCityGopher]

I was just thinking about Groce the other day! I really liked the guy and thought he was an impressive man and coach, but he couldn't get it done at Illinois. At the time, people were wondering out loud whether Illinois might be one of the more difficult jobs in the Big Ten, speculating that, even though the recruiting grounds were fertile with Chicago close by, it was tough to recruit there without cheating, and Groce was not a cheater. That was some of the chatter at that time, at least. Obviously, Lou Henson had been successful there, but there were always murmurings that he was dirty. Then Bruce Weber had some success, getting them to the national final, but ultimately couldn't sustain it and was dismissed. Because Groce was well liked and regarded, the punditry concluded that it was just an impossible situation and the lack of success no fault of his. Sound familiar? That's why I was thinking about him the other day.

Groce was not well-liked in his last couple years, and was continually roasted by Chicago sports radio, with the talking heads demanding he be fired. Illini basketball has to be either especially good or especially bad to get attention in Chicago, despite all the alums who live here. The latter half of his tenure was especially bad.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

Some Illinois fans consider it their dark period when it hit rock bottom, yet he went to 1 NCAA and 3 NIT’s in 5 years and he was let go for not winning enough. I’m sure he couldn’t get the players, as they say ‘it’s not the x’s & I’d, it’s the Jimmy’s and the Joes!

I don't know that I'd say that. Here are the years that he coached at Illinois and the number of RSCI Top 100 players he had on the roster:

2016 - 5 (two played in the NBA); season record: 15-19

2015 - 4 (same two played in NBA); season record: 19-14

2014 - 4
(same two played in NBA); season record: 20-15

2013 - 6

(two different players played in NBA); season record: 23-13; made the NCAA tournament

For comparison, here were the number of Top 100 players on the Gophers' rosters during those years.

2016- 0
2015 - 0
2014 - 0
2013 - 2

I don't think Groce was a bad coach but, in terms of raw talent, he had more to work with than this program did.

 

[CentralGopher]

My point is this. If you look at the actual language of Davis' comments, all he did is sited his opinion, followed by his reasons for his opinion.

"Ben Johnson has done an incredible job with this team. One of the elite coaches in one of the toughest jobs in America." He went on to site the following factors as his reason for saying so: "Tough league, brutal weather, outdated facilities, minimal NIL $$".

So how does the fire Ben Johnson crowd respond. Predictaby, with their fire Ben Johnson chant. Oh, and they are very offended by the word "elite" being used, and the weather being a mentioned factor. On the big factors of NIL and facilities, crickets.

The fact is there are major, non-coach related reasons for Gopher basketball's current state. And until those reasons are addressed, hiring a new coach is not going to be the panacea the fire Ben Johnson crowd thinks it will be.

Both NIL and facilities have been addressed here. NIL isn’t as bad as you’d like to believe and facilities here are top notch. Players don’t care that fans pee in a trough.

 

[gregbrady]

I don't know that I'd say that. Here are the years that he coached at Illinois and the number of RSCI Top 100 players he had on the roster:

2016 - 5 (two played in the NBA); season record: 15-19

2015 - 4 (same two played in NBA); season record: 19-14

2014 - 4
(same two played in NBA); season record: 20-15

2013 - 6

(two different players played in NBA); season record: 23-13; made the NCAA tournament

For comparison, here were the number of Top 100 players on the Gophers' rosters during those years.

2016- 0
2015 - 0
2014 - 0
2013 - 2

I don't think Groce was a bad coach but, in terms of raw talent, he had more to work with than this program did.

Good info, I didn’t look up their roster. It’s interesting that he got the Illinois job after one decent year(of 4) at Ohio. They made the sweet 16, but not much else as a head coach screamed Power 5 potential.

 

[howeda7]

Both NIL and facilities have been addressed here. NIL isn’t as bad as you’d like to believe and facilities here are top notch. Players don’t care that fans pee in a trough.

I'm sure taking recruits to an empty Barn in September/October isn't ideal, but I doubt too many are basing their decision on that. It's about NIL, the coaches and and the practice facilities.

The Barn does need to be addressed, but not because of recruiting.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

As you read the fire BJ crowds comments here on Seth Davis' post, I would encourage you to go back and read their predictions on how many Big 10 wins the Gophers will have this year.

You will find their win predictions to be on par with the reaction to Davis. Let's just say they were & are terrible wrong in both instances. My favorite is USAF's zero win prediction. And he is not alone in vastly underestimating this team and coaching staff.

The fire BJ crowd sure know their basketball. LOL.

Good post. Ben Johnson may or may not be renewed here but you can't have it both ways. You can't say: "He's the worst coach in the league and won't beat anybody" and then still say he's the worst coach in the league if he finishes above 5 or 6 teams.

Of course, that rule assumes that people will have honesty, objectivity, and integrity and most of these people have none of those. Most of them aren't very bright either.

 

[bga1]

As you read the fire BJ crowds comments here on Seth Davis' post, I would encourage you to go back and read their predictions on how many Big 10 wins the Gophers will have this year.

You will find their win predictions to be on par with the reaction to Davis. Let's just say they were & are terrible wrong in both instances. My favorite is USAF's zero win prediction. And he is not alone in vastly underestimating this team and coaching staff.

The fire BJ crowd sure know their basketball. LOL.

Total Wins During Conference Season

Now that we have seen the majority of the non-conference portion of the schedule, how many wins do you think the Gophers will have during the regular season BIG stretch of games?

gopherhole.com

This one? I had them at 6-7 wins. It sure looks like a lot of people who thinks he should be fired (but won't be in my case) were not far off if off at all.

 

[bga1]

Good post. Ben Johnson may or may not be renewed here but you can't have it both ways. You can't say: "He's the worst coach in the league and won't beat anybody" and then still say he's the worst coach in the league if he finishes above 5 or 6 teams.

Of course, that rule assumes that people will have honesty, objectivity, and integrity and most of these people have none of those. Most of them aren't very bright either.

What Big Ten coach does he have a better 4 year record than? That would be objective and honest, I think.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

So, what's left? How he dresses on the sideline? His presence on social media and how well he uses it to connect with fans and keep them up to date on things? His ability to explain and articulate matters of interest to fans and observers of the program in his post-game remarks and weekly radio show? What other measures of performance have I left out?

High fives and butt slaps!