Seth Davis: Ben Johnson has done an incredible job with this team. One of the elite coaches in one of the toughest jobs in America.

[Dave H]

Uh no. But I am not sure what caused that post by you.

Re-read your post...you are talking about the U "building their case". The same U that can barely market themselves out of a paper bag when they have teams that are decent and fans that care is somehow building a case with a media who could care less trying to keep a coach none of the fans want or will pay to go see? And they are apparently so good at it that all the media is eating it up and helping them with their "case". (to believe that is to believe the stupid things Doogie tweets because that is all this stuff is)

You cant have it both ways, either the U is completely inept and so disorganized they can't run an Athletic Department (likely) or they are super genius level shmoozers who would rather lose money as long as they can curry influence with the local media that is dying and a national media that ignores them.

I see this crap all the time all over the place...people who are too invested and way too close to a decision who twist themselves into knots trying to prove that every horse they see is a zebra even though it is just a horse. The U isn't making a case for anything, the media is for their own selfish reasons that aren't even that hard to understand. And when the Gophers are eliminated from the BTT and everyone is ignoring them again the U will almost assuredly fire Johnson and the worry and anxiety will flip to some other version of all of us trying to vent our anxieties and frustrations. (the U will be cheap, the U wont interview the people Seth Davis likes, the media is pushing their guy, Coyle is a moron...etc)

 

[Dave H]

We must also consider that we are in the echo chamber. The average Minnesota sports fan isn't saying "wow have you seen all the amazing press for Ben Johnson lately? I never realized what a great job he's doing."

This is a very important point that is often ignored. Especially if the press is local fishwrap press which no one reads anymore.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Seth is clearly missing the point. The issue is far less with saying it is a tough job and far more with calling Johnson an elite coach.

 

[Dave H]

Numbers 14:2

I for one do not want to stay in Egypt. I'll die in the wilderness looking for a better situation.

The more I think about this, the stupider it gets. The fool premise seems to be this: we've had a rough go of it trying to get traction the past number of years, so what we should do is this: hire the least qualified coach in the league, watch him have the worst career in the program's history, and then continue to retain him interminably. This, because the next 25 years will undoubtedly be as bad as the last 25 years, because that's how everything in the world works (which is a non-sequitir, but that's even beside the point). I can't think of anything more idiotic.

Yep. Wisconsin sucked for decades and now look at them. NW was a joke, Penn State happy to be a bubble squad every so often...we aren't even close the worst program in the Big Ten but even if we are if they can get better so can we. People like Johnnyboy would rather strike out looking than swinging away and trying to win the game. for fear of making a mistake.

As for your question about Davis...it doesn't help college basketball, it helps him. He is doing this for totally selfish reasons and he is doubling down for the same reasons and because of his ego.

 

[Gopher Ally]

Every coach in the Big is hoping Ben stays

 

[WilliamsArenaGuy]

Seth is clearly missing the point. The issue is far less with saying it is a tough job and far more with calling Johnson an elite coach.

Exactly, but he has to deflect now. Instead of elite, he is now describing it as BJ has "done a solid job this year." He's already backed off, but changed the narrative to distract the readers.

 

[WilliamsArenaGuy]

Yep. Wisconsin sucked for decades and now look at them. NW was a joke, Penn State happy to be a bubble squad every so often...we aren't even close the worst program in the Big Ten but even if we are if they can get better so can we. People like Johnnyboy would rather strike out looking than swinging away and trying to win the game. for fear of making a mistake.

As for your question about Davis...it doesn't help college basketball, it helps him. He is doing this for totally selfish reasons and he is doubling down for the same reasons and because of his ego.

Probably a big Edouard Julien fan.

 

[LongLiveMilesTarver]

The greatest predictor of future performance is past performance. I don't hate the Gophers but the proof of it being a bad job is extraordinarily clear to anyone who isn't blinded.

More proof to pull the plug on Ben and try something else.

 

[howeda7]

Seth is clearly missing the point. The issue is far less with saying it is a tough job and far more with calling Johnson an elite coach.

I think he knows that so he pivoted to the less absurd part of the take.

 

[howeda7]

Every coach in the Big is hoping Ben stays

I bet Seth Davis had a conversation with Tom Izzo recently....

 

[LongLiveMilesTarver]

You hate to make political yet you do? Must suck to have that gun to your head being forced to make this political

Do you feel better now that you got your really important political take in?

I do feel better . And that was my goal all along!

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Seth is clearly missing the point. The issue is far less with saying it is a tough job and far more with calling Johnson an elite coach.

+1

Similar to the drum I've been beating, even if it is a tough job, how is Seth getting around the fact that Ben is doing that job worse than anyone who has ever held it?

 

[howeda7]

+1

Similar to the drum I've been beating, even if it is a tough job, how is Seth getting around the fact that Ben is doing that job worse than anyone who has ever held it?

I can almost guarantee he doesn't know that.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Anyone who mentions the weather has jumped the shark, the weather is only marginally different than about half the schools in D1 basketball

Wisconsin and Michigan state can win because Madison and Lansing have 7 days per winter below zero instead of 11?



NIL is definitely a thing
Facilities are a thing
But when you throw weather on it kind of makes me think you’re just making stuff up.

Tell me 112 degrees at UT-Austin isn't brutal, and it's only going to be getting worse. The only perfect climate in the US is southern California.

Every college has disadvantages. Penn State is miles from anywhere, but have I ever seen the national media tweet about that?

 

[MNVCGUY]

Exactly, but he has to deflect now. Instead of elite, he is now describing it as BJ has "done a solid job this year." He's already backed off, but changed the narrative to distract the readers.

Yep, and with the attention spans people have, especially on social media, it will be pretty easy to accomplish his goal.

 

[kg21]

Seth had no idea what Ben's record is over the 4 years combined.

Ho clue at all.

 

[howeda7]

Tell me 112 degrees at UT-Austin isn't brutal, and it's only going to be getting worse. The only perfect climate in the US is southern California.

Every college has disadvantages. Penn State is miles from anywhere, but have I ever seen the national media tweet about that?

I went to a Gopher Penn State game in Happy Valley. It was the emptiest, saddest Divison 1 venue I've ever been to. An average Divison II Northern State game would put it to shame. That is likely the toughest job in the B1G by a good bit. They do not care about basketball.

 

[GFBfan]

Everything you said is true. Remember this: They hired this same guy who had never been a head coach. Anywhere. To do this job. To me, that's crazy.

I think it is time to move on.

They are building a case that:

1. Ben has done well with the talent he has this year. Let's face it- who among us thought 7-8 wins was possible at the start of the conference season?
2. He had the beginnings of a talented team last year with Hawkins and Payne now starting on top 20 squads- but the NIL wasn't there to keep them (I blame that partly on Ben).
3. We will have the money to compete next year so Ben can do this if he has the financial backing.

That's their case. Not mine.

I don't like his offensive scheme or his defense. I don't like how he uses the bench. I don't like how he uses his timeouts. I don't think he's any better than an average recruiter. I don't think he has managed or built rosters. He has mostly brought in guards that lack speed- Hawkins and Asuma being the exceptions. He brings in guys that can't shoot or are otherwise one dimensional. The bench gets shorter as the season goes on and guys disappear.

To his credit- his teams play hard and he brings in good attitude/character kids. That is a plus for sure.

The bolded part is crazy.
He was growing/learning to be a head coach in a position he shouldn't have been in in the first place. To make matters even more interesting, he has also had to learn the ins and outs of NIL and unlimited transfers. He certainly hasn't been great at it, but has show improvement in all areas.
The U took a very large gamble when hiring him, so far that gamble hasn't paid off, but there are signs that it just might given some more time. The biggest is your last sentence in that his teams play hard. None of his teams has packed it in and the team this year, continues to battle even when down. That shows he has the respect of his players, which in this day and age is a major part of the battle.
As to the things you don't like:
Offense: The game of basketball has changed - to me not for the better. 5 players spreading the floor is the offense to run. Some do it with movement and passing, others do it with dribbling and screens. His relies on dribbling and screens, but they do have a system, even if you may not like it, it does work.
Defense: Over the course of his tenure, they have stuck with the same basic system. Again you may not like it, but when they play as a group of 5, for the most part they do a good job of defending.
Time Outs: Can be a head scratcher at times. But with the number of reviews that usually happen at the end of a game, it is pointless to hang onto them if you really want to get something set up or discuss some strategy late in a close game. Sure, you might get burned because of it, if there are no reviews, but you might get burned the other way as well if there are a bunch of reviews. Has there been a coach who has used their TO's wisely throughout a game?
I wouldn't be upset like I believe most of you will be if he is retained and I won't be upset if he is let go.

 

[FinnGopher]

"Extensive academic fraud" yet North Carolina gets nothing. How much bullshit can Seth Davis pitch?

 

[Formerswish]

I think he knows that so he pivoted to the less absurd part of the take.

I agree that this was an incorrect take by Davis. And like many others, I am disappointed and frustrated by the lack of success with Johnsons teams the last 4 years. And I also have to say that getting 7 conference wins this year with this level of talent is quite an accomplishment.

Am I excited to have Johnson back next year? Not really, but he has had one team with reasonable Big Ten talent, and that was last year when he was 9-11 in the Big Ten. And I am curious to see how he would do with solid talent again.

As a long time coach, it's quite something to see all the experts talk about playing time, how he uses his bench, when he calls timeout, etc. What you don't see or know is:

• How the players have practiced recently
• Who has a nagging injury
• What kind of attitude a player may have had recently
• A thorough examination of the match-ups against certain opponents

If Johnson shortens his bench and the team loses, it's because they're "worn down" and he should have used his bench more. If the team wins, it's no problem that he shortened his bench.

I'm not a person that would be thrilled if Johnson was back next year, but I do know that with the portal and with some extra NIL money, things could turn around in a hurry. The guy is a decent coach. Anyone who saw the improvement over the year of a team that clearly had the talent to finish last in the conference can see that.

This is a hard place to win and have success. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but I would encourage everyone to consider how much we all don't know when making posts. I wish I had the answer for the plight of Gopher hoops, I don't.

 

[bga1]

Re-read your post...you are talking about the U "building their case". The same U that can barely market themselves out of a paper bag when they have teams that are decent and fans that care is somehow building a case with a media who could care less trying to keep a coach none of the fans want or will pay to go see? And they are apparently so good at it that all the media is eating it up and helping them with their "case". (to believe that is to believe the stupid things Doogie tweets because that is all this stuff is)

You cant have it both ways, either the U is completely inept and so disorganized they can't run an Athletic Department (likely) or they are super genius level shmoozers who would rather lose money as long as they can curry influence with the local media that is dying and a national media that ignores them.

I see this crap all the time all over the place...people who are too invested and way too close to a decision who twist themselves into knots trying to prove that every horse they see is a zebra even though it is just a horse. The U isn't making a case for anything, the media is for their own selfish reasons that aren't even that hard to understand. And when the Gophers are eliminated from the BTT and everyone is ignoring them again the U will almost assuredly fire Johnson and the worry and anxiety will flip to some other version of all of us trying to vent our anxieties and frustrations. (the U will be cheap, the U wont interview the people Seth Davis likes, the media is pushing their guy, Coyle is a moron...etc)

My point is that the U doesn't care much about their basketball team. They would rather justify standing pat (building the case) than invest in making it right. Look, Johnnyboy that works over there, doesn't believe they will pay for success. Change is hard. Settling is easy.

 

[FinnGopher]

I agree that this was an incorrect take by Davis. And like many others, I am disappointed and frustrated by the lack of success with Johnsons teams the last 4 years. And I also have to say that getting 7 conference wins this year with this level of talent is quite an accomplishment.

Am I excited to have Johnson back next year? Not really, but he has had one team with reasonable Big Ten talent, and that was last year when he was 9-11 in the Big Ten. And I am curious to see how he would do with solid talent again.

As a long time coach, it's quite something to see all the experts talk about playing time, how he uses his bench, when he calls timeout, etc. What you don't see or know is:

• How the players have practiced recently
• Who has a nagging injury
• What kind of attitude a player may have had recently
• A thorough examination of the match-ups against certain opponents

If Johnson shortens his bench and the team loses, it's because they're "worn down" and he should have used his bench more. If the team wins, it's no problem that he shortened his bench.

I'm not a person that would be thrilled if Johnson was back next year, but I do know that with the portal and with some extra NIL money, things could turn around in a hurry. The guy is a decent coach. Anyone who saw the improvement over the year of a team that clearly had the talent to finish last in the conference can see that.

This is a hard place to win and have success. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but I would encourage everyone to consider how much we all don't know when making posts. I wish I had the answer for the plight of Gopher hoops, I don't.

Everything you've noted has merit. It comes down to 4 years of data showing Ben Johnson having the worst winning percentage of any Gopher coach. The data gives Coyle all the information needed to fire Ben Johnson.

 

[Arealgopherfan]

I agree that this was an incorrect take by Davis. And like many others, I am disappointed and frustrated by the lack of success with Johnsons teams the last 4 years. And I also have to say that getting 7 conference wins this year with this level of talent is quite an accomplishment.

Am I excited to have Johnson back next year? Not really, but he has had one team with reasonable Big Ten talent, and that was last year when he was 9-11 in the Big Ten. And I am curious to see how he would do with solid talent again.

As a long time coach, it's quite something to see all the experts talk about playing time, how he uses his bench, when he calls timeout, etc. What you don't see or know is:

• How the players have practiced recently
• Who has a nagging injury
• What kind of attitude a player may have had recently
• A thorough examination of the match-ups against certain opponents

If Johnson shortens his bench and the team loses, it's because they're "worn down" and he should have used his bench more. If the team wins, it's no problem that he shortened his bench.

I'm not a person that would be thrilled if Johnson was back next year, but I do know that with the portal and with some extra NIL money, things could turn around in a hurry. The guy is a decent coach. Anyone who saw the improvement over the year of a team that clearly had the talent to finish last in the conference can see that.

This is a hard place to win and have success. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but I would encourage everyone to consider how much we all don't know when making posts. I wish I had the answer for the plight of Gopher hoops, I don't.

A well thought out post from someone with real basketball knowledge. A rarity on this board.

 

[bga1]

The bolded part is crazy.
He was growing/learning to be a head coach in a position he shouldn't have been in in the first place.

They should not have hired him. We agree on that.

To make matters even more interesting, he has also had to learn the ins and outs of NIL and unlimited transfers. He certainly hasn't been great at it, but has show improvement in all areas.

How so?

The U took a very large gamble when hiring him, so far that gamble hasn't paid off,

No doubt about that. 22-55

but there are signs that it just might given some more time.

Talk to Howie about that one. Might is an ok word here if you put the probability at 25% or less

The biggest is your last sentence in that his teams play hard. None of his teams has packed it in and the team this year, continues to battle even when down. That shows he has the respect of his players, which in this day and age is a major part of the battle.

This is the best part about Ben. Not the X's and O's not the recruiting, but the character is good.

As to the things you don't like:
Offense: The game of basketball has changed - to me not for the better. 5 players spreading the floor is the offense to run. Some do it with movement and passing, others do it with dribbling and screens. His relies on dribbling and screens, but they do have a system, even if you may not like it, it does work.

Just not for these players. It just doesn't. I don't even think that is arguable. I have never heard anyone say that our offense is a good one. Look at Mike Mitchell, he is a shadow of what he was last year with the loss of Hawkins. The offense is a disaster with this group because the only guy with quickness is Asuma and he doesn't have the ball in his hands- he sits in the corner. So nobody breaks anybody down and since there is no low post to defend all of the defenders shade to the perimeter. That makes finding open looks pretty tough.

Defense: Over the course of his tenure, they have stuck with the same basic system. Again you may not like it, but when they play as a group of 5, for the most part they do a good job of defending.

They don't play help D. They switch but then mismatches form and they don't help and if it gets into the low post- good night. How many times have you seen the opposing team get a mismatch in the paint against us (this year and in the past) and nobody helps out? We didn't help Fox against Edy last year for heaven's sake.

Time Outs: Can be a head scratcher at times. But with the number of reviews that usually happen at the end of a game, it is pointless to hang onto them if you really want to get something set up or discuss some strategy late in a close game. Sure, you might get burned because of it, if there are no reviews, but you might get burned the other way as well if there are a bunch of reviews. Has there been a coach who has used their TO's wisely throughout a game?

Good coaches tend to save one. That ten second call could have been avoided and it is a small miracle that it didn't cost us the game.

I wouldn't be upset like I believe most of you will be if he is retained and I won't be upset if he is let go.

If we keep him (and I have clearly stated the case for that on this site) I will be rooting for him to prove he can do it. Maybe he can. The odds don't seem good.

 

[Ewert86PC]

Look, you and the others floating this idea that the U is desperate to keep him could turn out to be right but I still have yet to hear anyone give me a valid reason why they would be desperate to do this.

If they bring Johnson back the season ticket numbers will drop even more then they already have and they will be playing games in front of an empty arena with a fanbase that has no interest in the program. Johnson would have to hit an absolute grand slam in terms of the players he brings in order to play at a high enough level to win people back. And while he has shown an ability to bring in some quality players he hasn't been able to bring in or retain enough of them in order to have even one really good season through his first 4. At best year 3 and maybe year 4 can be seen as ok and the first two were just flat out bad.

No over .500 in conference finishes through 4 years
Hasn't come close to making an NCAA tournament
Lots of empty seats in the barn
Whole roster turning over including the loss of almost all of the current offensive production.
Very little talent coming back and a recruiting class coming in that just looks ok.

The ONLY reason I can think of why the administration would want to keep him is to not pay the buyout and if that is true may as well just shut down the program because a Big Ten school being scared of a buyout that size would be beyond pathetic.

Here is an amplifying thought to add: Next year, St Thomas will be eligible for NCAA tournament, in either field of 68 or play-in spots. How many corporate season ticket holders will switch horses next season because they view St Thomas as a better option, especially with the Tommies having a brand-spanking new arena next year?

UMN still acts, in this day and age, like it is the only option in town and everyone should bow down, expressing gratitude for their very existence, when they should be working hard in every aspect to garner substantive attention and recognition, rather than existential attention and recognition. Making a change now would be an indicator that they understand all their virtue signaling has been for naught and results need to be seen.

But then again, logic and reason are not highly esteemed values at UMN - Twin Cities. This is coming from an alumni no less.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I agree that this was an incorrect take by Davis. And like many others, I am disappointed and frustrated by the lack of success with Johnsons teams the last 4 years. And I also have to say that getting 7 conference wins this year with this level of talent is quite an accomplishment.

Am I excited to have Johnson back next year? Not really, but he has had one team with reasonable Big Ten talent, and that was last year when he was 9-11 in the Big Ten. And I am curious to see how he would do with solid talent again.

As a long time coach, it's quite something to see all the experts talk about playing time, how he uses his bench, when he calls timeout, etc. What you don't see or know is:

• How the players have practiced recently
• Who has a nagging injury
• What kind of attitude a player may have had recently
• A thorough examination of the match-ups against certain opponents

If Johnson shortens his bench and the team loses, it's because they're "worn down" and he should have used his bench more. If the team wins, it's no problem that he shortened his bench.

I'm not a person that would be thrilled if Johnson was back next year, but I do know that with the portal and with some extra NIL money, things could turn around in a hurry. The guy is a decent coach. Anyone who saw the improvement over the year of a team that clearly had the talent to finish last in the conference can see that.

This is a hard place to win and have success. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but I would encourage everyone to consider how much we all don't know when making posts. I wish I had the answer for the plight of Gopher hoops, I don't.

Don't the Gophers have one of the best players in the country on our roster? That helps a lot. Last year's team keeps getting overrated because the B1G was very mediocre.

I also don't buy he's a good coach when they lay an egg every time it looks like they might be turning a corner. He does nothing but make excuses. Re-decorating the locker room to make it look like a visitors locker room? What a joke.

I'm not sure why anyone would believe this team will be better next season when they lose Garcia and will fill their roster with a bunch of mid major recruits again. There's almost no reason to believe they would have a chance of making the NCAA tournament next season, so what's the point of continuing with him?

 

[leib0039]

This is getting caught in an all time stupid tweet and having to double down instead of admitting you're an idiot.

First off, no one's saying this is an easy job where anyone can just win 20+ a year. But by the same token, I think a vast majority of fans aren't expecting national titles, we just don't want 28% conference win %.

So let's break it down.
Weather: GTFO, as others have noted a ton of teams are in the north and its 0 issue. If Weather matters went aren't pepperdine Loyola Marymount ucf and usf in the final 4 every year?

League. Again sure we aren't going 15-5 every year, fine, this conference also gives you leeway. You can win 9-11 conference games and get in the tournament every year. We also get a huge boost from being in the big ten. Not only $$ wise but exposure for kids.

Outdated facilities: I HATE when this gets mentioned. We have an almost new athletics facility. You want to talk about the barn. Ok sure the seats aren't great, the bathrooms could use work, or better suites. Last time I checked, those things don't effect a player at all! I promise you no kid is going somewhere because their court is nice and that's it. Such a lazy take to just say ohh facilities are bad.

NIL/$$-- sure we aren't flush with cash or have a monster donor, but my lord this isn't like we are NC A&T or Idaho st here. Part of the issue with CBJ is his personality. He's so boring and not a people person. You combine that with a terrible record and no kidding you can't find money for the bball team. I promise you an outgoing coach who wins games will bring plenty of money to make the Gophers a relevant program.

The other positive I'd say we have is an understanding/patient fan base. We aren't KU or Duke who expects 30 wins a year. Put a good product out we'll be happy (see the football team).

I don't mind Seth normally but man these are truly stupid takes.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Here is an amplifying thought to add: Next year, St Thomas will be eligible for NCAA tournament, in either field of 68 or play-in spots. How many corporate season ticket holders will switch horses next season because they view St Thomas as a better option, especially with the Tommies having a brand-spanking new arena next year?

UMN still acts, in this day and age, like it is the only option in town and everyone should bow down, expressing gratitude for their very existence, when they should be working hard in every aspect to garner substantive attention and recognition, rather than existential attention and recognition. Making a change now would be an indicator that they understand all their virtue signaling has been for naught and results need to be seen.

But then again, logic and reason are not highly esteemed values at UMN - Twin Cities. This is coming from an alumni no less.

Sliced a different way, I know a number of St. Thomas grads, and when any ask my thoughts on Ben, I always reply by posing a question: would you trade Tauer for Johnson straight up. They all say no, of course; some laugh. We've talked a lot about whether Tauer would be capable of coaching at the high-major level, and that's a fair topic, but what does that say about Johnson?

 

[howeda7]

I agree that this was an incorrect take by Davis. And like many others, I am disappointed and frustrated by the lack of success with Johnsons teams the last 4 years. And I also have to say that getting 7 conference wins this year with this level of talent is quite an accomplishment.

Am I excited to have Johnson back next year? Not really, but he has had one team with reasonable Big Ten talent, and that was last year when he was 9-11 in the Big Ten. And I am curious to see how he would do with solid talent again.

As a long time coach, it's quite something to see all the experts talk about playing time, how he uses his bench, when he calls timeout, etc. What you don't see or know is:

• How the players have practiced recently
• Who has a nagging injury
• What kind of attitude a player may have had recently
• A thorough examination of the match-ups against certain opponents

If Johnson shortens his bench and the team loses, it's because they're "worn down" and he should have used his bench more. If the team wins, it's no problem that he shortened his bench.

I'm not a person that would be thrilled if Johnson was back next year, but I do know that with the portal and with some extra NIL money, things could turn around in a hurry. The guy is a decent coach. Anyone who saw the improvement over the year of a team that clearly had the talent to finish last in the conference can see that.

This is a hard place to win and have success. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but I would encourage everyone to consider how much we all don't know when making posts. I wish I had the answer for the plight of Gopher hoops, I don't.

What talent do you expect him to obtain for next year and what does he have to do to earn year 6?

 

[Arealgopherfan]

Sliced a different way, I know a number of St. Thomas grads, and when any ask my thoughts on Ben, I always reply by posing a question: would you trade Tauer for Johnson straight up. They all say no, of course; some laugh. We've talked a lot about whether Tauer would be capable of coaching at the high-major level, and that's a fair topic, but what does that say about Johnson?

So now we are at the point where the UM basketball coach is judged based on the opinions of some St. Thomas grads? Wow. How thoughtful .