Seth Davis: Ben Johnson has done an incredible job with this team. One of the elite coaches in one of the toughest jobs in America.

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

The Gophers made the NCAA Tournament in 2017 and 2019. Are you ok?

Yep. Even if we buy the argument that the U is a uniquely difficult place to succeed at in basketball (i dont buy that it is inherently more difficult than at neighboring Wisconsin), that doesn't change the fact that Ben is doing significantly worse than his two predecessors at this challenging position.

 

[bga1]

Look, you and the others floating this idea that the U is desperate to keep him could turn out to be right but I still have yet to hear anyone give me a valid reason why they would be desperate to do this.

If they bring Johnson back the season ticket numbers will drop even more then they already have and they will be playing games in front of an empty arena with a fanbase that has no interest in the program. Johnson would have to hit an absolute grand slam in terms of the players he brings in order to play at a high enough level to win people back. And while he has shown an ability to bring in some quality players he hasn't been able to bring in or retain enough of them in order to have even one really good season through his first 4. At best year 3 and maybe year 4 can be seen as ok and the first two were just flat out bad.

No over .500 in conference finishes through 4 years
Hasn't come close to making an NCAA tournament
Lots of empty seats in the barn
Whole roster turning over including the loss of almost all of the current offensive production.
Very little talent coming back and a recruiting class coming in that just looks ok.

The ONLY reason I can think of why the administration would want to keep him is to not pay the buyout and if that is true may as well just shut down the program because a Big Ten school being scared of a buyout that size would be beyond pathetic.

Everything you said is true. Remember this: They hired this same guy who had never been a head coach. Anywhere. To do this job. To me, that's crazy.

I think it is time to move on.

They are building a case that:

1. Ben has done well with the talent he has this year. Let's face it- who among us thought 7-8 wins was possible at the start of the conference season?
2. He had the beginnings of a talented team last year with Hawkins and Payne now starting on top 20 squads- but the NIL wasn't there to keep them (I blame that partly on Ben).
3. We will have the money to compete next year so Ben can do this if he has the financial backing.

That's their case. Not mine.

I don't like his offensive scheme or his defense. I don't like how he uses the bench. I don't like how he uses his timeouts. I don't think he's any better than an average recruiter. I don't think he has managed or built rosters. He has mostly brought in guards that lack speed- Hawkins and Asuma being the exceptions. He brings in guys that can't shoot or are otherwise one dimensional. The bench gets shorter as the season goes on and guys disappear.

To his credit- his teams play hard and he brings in good attitude/character kids. That is a plus for sure.

 

[Unregistered User]

Everything you said is true. Remember this: They hired this same guy who had never been a head coach. Anywhere. To do this job. To me, that's crazy.

I think it is time to move on.

They are building a case that:

1. Ben has done well with the talent he has this year. Let's face it- who among us thought 7-8 wins was possible at the start of the conference season?
2. He had the beginnings of a talented team last year with Hawkins and Payne now starting on top 20 squads- but the NIL wasn't there to keep them (I blame that partly on Ben).
3. We will have the money to compete next year so Ben can do this if he has the financial backing.

That's their case. Not mine.

I don't like his offensive scheme or his defense. I don't like how he uses the bench. I don't like how he uses his timeouts. I don't think he's any better than an average recruiter. I don't think he has managed or built rosters. He has mostly brought in guards that lack speed- Hawkins and Asuma being the exceptions. He brings in guys that can't shoot or are otherwise one dimensional. The bench gets shorter as the season goes on and guys disappear.

To his credit- his teams play hard and he brings in good attitude/character kids. That is a plus for sure.

You cracked the case!

The “U” Athletic Department is working with local and national media to “build their case” to retain Ben.

Totally logical.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Everything you said is true. Remember this: They hired this same guy who had never been a head coach. Anywhere. To do this job. To me, that's crazy.

I think it is time to move on.

They are building a case that:

1. Ben has done well with the talent he has this year. Let's face it- who among us thought 7-8 wins was possible at the start of the conference season?
2. He had the beginnings of a talented team last year with Hawkins and Payne now starting on top 20 squads- but the NIL wasn't there to keep them (I blame that partly on Ben).
3. We will have the money to compete next year so Ben can do this if he has the financial backing.

That's their case. Not mine.

I don't like his offensive scheme or his defense. I don't like how he uses the bench. I don't like how he uses his timeouts. I don't think he's any better than an average recruiter. I don't think he has managed or built rosters. He has mostly brought in guards that lack speed- Hawkins and Asuma being the exceptions. He brings in guys that can't shoot or are otherwise one dimensional. The bench gets shorter as the season goes on and guys disappear.

To his credit- his teams play hard and he brings in good attitude/character kids. That is a plus for sure.

Great post Beeg! And re: an earlier response you were correct to point out Biden crossing the nato redline. Thanks!

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

Not trying to convince you of anything. Just calling out your bullshit for the benefit of other posters who might be taken in by the seductive message of doom and passivity.

At least he has recent history on his side. All you seem to have is charges of "defeatism" for those who don't share your optimism. Plus, you emotionally bounce all over the place. Some time ago, in the John Tauer thread, you were saying that you hoped a good coach like Tauer doesn't come here because the administration is hopeless and this place could be a graveyard for him.

Some years ago (when Richard was still coach), there was a survey of Big Ten basketball coaches and they rated this as the second worst job (to Northwestern) in the conference and that was pre-NIL.

 

[NateDawgUM]

I’m just not sure the U wants to be good at basketball. I see the investments in other sports.

 

[howeda7]

Fluke wins? Come on. Im all for johnson getting fired, but woulda coulda shoulda. If were gonna do that we should be 12-6 right now and 21-9.

They are 6-2 in close B1G games this year. Some of that is probably their "old" veterans coming up in the clutch. But you'd have to admit the last three wins (USC, UCLA and yesterday) were all probably under 10% to win at some point in the last two minutes.

 

[howeda7]

Between fawning tributes to Ben’s coaching acumen, nearly all at the same time, by Reusse, LEN, Marcus and now Seth Davis, I’m getting a sneaking suspicion that this is a coordinated PR effort, either by Ben and his agent or Gophers media relations. There’s way too much coincidence to all these foolish media takes happening almost simultaneously, right when a decision is going to be made on his future employment.

Marcus has been fawning over Ben, and making excuses for him, for a long time.

I'm not sure Reusse has been fawning over him. He said he thinks he's getting fired. All along he's said he likes him as a guy and feels sorry for him because of NIL etc.

LaVelle and Seth Davis are certainly new to the party but I'm not sure it equals a coordinated PR effort. Neither of them have watched more than a couple Gopher games over the past year which makes their takes even more ridiculous.

 

[howeda7]

The local guys I could buy backing Ben, hes a guy they've all known, he gives them scoops and access, and quite honestly most of them suck at their job. So sure maybe they pump him up. I can almost guarantee you Seth has zero connection to Ben and could give 2 Fs less about him, that's why this tweet combined with the local stuff feels coordinated.

I try not to be a conspiracy guy, but logically if Coyle if saying listen, a few $$ here and there, hes suddenly this "elite" coach, we fire him some other school hires him and boom we are of the hook for millions! Like that kind of adds up and makes sense. Or maybe I'm just terrified that one of the worst coaches in the country is going to get a 5th year for no reason at all....

I hope Northern Illinois is buying the ruse.

 

[howeda7]

Some people believe that everything in the world happens by accident. You must be one of them.

Do you think it's a coincidence that, when the Rolling Stones are about to go on tour, you cannot avoid a print or TV article about them if you try? Anyone who doesn't think that what they see in the media is coordinated has the mind of a child.

We must also consider that we are in the echo chamber. The average Minnesota sports fan isn't saying "wow have you seen all the amazing press for Ben Johnson lately? I never realized what a great job he's doing."

 

[howeda7]

The greatest predictor of future performance is past performance. I don't hate the Gophers but the proof of it being a bad job is extraordinarily clear to anyone who isn't blinded.

The first and biggest step they can take to change that is get a decent coach. Ben isn't it. The NIL situation won't be magically solved by that but it will be helped. Winning will help it more.

The arena is trickier, and does need to be addressed. But I don't think it's actually that big of an issue to recruits now that they have the practice facility.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

I’m just not sure the U wants to be good at basketball. I see the investments in other sports.

I'm sure they'd like to be good at everything but don't have enough money to go around. Football appears to have reached a steady state of being competitive and I think they're going to try to maintain that. Hockey is very important in this state and the Gophers are the historical big fish in a small pond in that sport so the administration is going to maintain that status.

 

[dbmn]

On the surface I would agree but I think Johnnyboy was being ironic. There are posters here who despise Johnson in part because they consider him a "DEI hire."

Maybe CBJ was a DEI hire but that's not his fault. CBJ didn't hire himself. Hating CBJ is misdirected. The hate should go to Coyle (no guts to oppose his wife and the board) and the board who was supposedly behind the insistence in hiring CBJ.

 

[golfing18now]

The recent rash of articles in support of Ben Johnson is laughable on the surface but also depressing under one of two scenarios.

1) If Ben Johnson is "elite" and "the only choice", the implication is we have reached our ceiling and that ceiling is Northwestern. An NCAA trip in year five, six, or seven is the best we can expect here because of any combination of excuses -- lack of NIL, stadium, cold weather, etc. If Mark Coyle and the administration share this "poor Ben" attitude then why not float a few articles for a guy the media clearly likes working with. That doesn't mean any of them are getting paid, as a poster suggested. But we should all attach our Gopher basketball fandom to a few meaningless (in the big picture) wins in February after all hope of an NCAA run is over? Or....

2) Mark Coyle does still have standards for this program and has already done his due diligence in contacting agents of potential candidates and nobody is interested. We all probably overvalue this job given the historical record of the last 25 years and suggest names that would likely prefer any of the other current open job openings. But that doesn't apply to all other coaches and doesn't explain how jobs ranging from Penn State to Michigan to Wisconsin have markedly changed their fortunes simply by hiring a new coach and going from there.

At some level I guess we are all guilty of continuing to follow this program with time and money if the University itself looks at this level of "success" with an "elite" coach and makes the determination this is good enough.

 

[Some guy]

The nice thing is that if Seth Davis is right Ben will quickly get another job and mitigate any buyout we would have to pay

And the other nice thing is we literally can’t take a step back beyond having our worst 5 year stretch in school history. At worst we will have our worst 5 year stretch which would be a wash

Firing him seems no lose for anyone

 

[NateDawgUM]

I'm sure they'd like to be good at everything but don't have enough money to go around. Football appears to have reached a steady state of being competitive and I think they're going to try to maintain that. Hockey is very important in this state and the Gophers are the historical big fish in a small pond in that sport so the administration is going to maintain that status.

Yeah that’s mostly what I mean. Football and hockey for men. Volleyball and sorta basketball for women.

Success in anything else is a bonus.

 

[alchemy2u]

Between fawning tributes to Ben’s coaching acumen, nearly all at the same time, by Reusse, LEN, Marcus and now Seth Davis, I’m getting a sneaking suspicion that this is a coordinated PR effort, either by Ben and his agent or Gophers media relations. There’s way too much coincidence to all these foolish media takes happening almost simultaneously, right when a decision is going to be made on his future employment.

Maybe the team has just won a series of unpredictable games in the conference? That is not just a random occurrence for this team and everything does not have to be a conspiracy.

 

[Gopheritnow]

When I saw this piece I immediately got my canoe out and went down to the Mississippi assuming some from GH would be leaping off the river bridges? Very disappointed that I haven’t been able to save anyone yet?

 

[alchemy2u]

Or the program has sucked for 25 years and good coaches have got fired here because it's 'one of the worst jobs in the country'.

I haven't seen anything about the Rolling Stones. Probably because when they were in their prime was the last time the Gophers had a good basketball program without cheating/scandal.

Quit being such an idiot. Just being in the B1G makes it a good program in a sport that can be turned around with just a couple of players.

Or maybe the program was put in a hole from the cheating sanctions and hasn't recovered.

Who are these great coaches that we have had in the last 25 years?

Monson? - obviously the Zags assistant coach was the backbone of the program. His hands were tied with restrictions.
Tubby? - was at the top once, but became just an out of touch coach that treated his players poorly.
Pitino? - was here on the early part of his coaching career, he could be a good one
Johnson? - again, another one at the early part of the coaching career, but caught up in the turnover of Covid eligibility and the NIL free market.

 

[Ski-U-Ham]

 

[Arealgopherfan]

I get the feeling Coyle started the propaganda storm about 3 weeks ago, and the shills are drumming up support as hard as they can.

Ben is getting year 5.

It's becoming more obvious every day.

Thus the continuing suck that is Minnesota basketball. And a few clowns here will cheer the decision.

I find your opinion to be at the same level as your basketball knowledge. A zero on both levels.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Or the program has sucked for 25 years and good coaches have got fired here because it's 'one of the worst jobs in the country'.

I haven't seen anything about the Rolling Stones. Probably because when they were in their prime was the last time the Gophers had a good basketball program without cheating/scandal.

Numbers 14:2

I for one do not want to stay in Egypt. I'll die in the wilderness looking for a better situation.

The more I think about this, the stupider it gets. The fool premise seems to be this: we've had a rough go of it trying to get traction the past number of years, so what we should do is this: hire the least qualified coach in the league, watch him have the worst career in the program's history, and then continue to retain him interminably. This, because the next 25 years will undoubtedly be as bad as the last 25 years, because that's how everything in the world works (which is a non-sequitir, but that's even beside the point). I can't think of anything more idiotic.

 

[Arealgopherfan]

Where does Seth Davis live in Minnesota? I thought it was just Ben's friends defending him. Maybe he's black?

I see we a have a racist moron member.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Of all the programs this could be said of, why does he attack Minnesota? I know he feels he needs to double down on his earlier post that's deservedly being ridiculed, but...

This is where it gets into the territory of openly boosting and supporting some programs and assassinating and bringing down others. What does it serve college basketball to do that? I'll tell you who it DOES serve: other Big Ten programs who would love to see the U stand pat. The league is already a meat grinder, even for the top teams. They don't need another upstart. Every league needs a doormat, and we're it.

 

[Holy Man]

They are 6-2 in close B1G games this year. Some of that is probably their "old" veterans coming up in the clutch. But you'd have to admit the last three wins (USC, UCLA and yesterday) were all probably under 10% to win at some point in the last two minutes.

And caught them all on bad days, especially at the line.

 

[Some guy]

Anyone who mentions the weather has jumped the shark, the weather is only marginally different than about half the schools in D1 basketball

Wisconsin and Michigan state can win because Madison and Lansing have 7 days per winter below zero instead of 11?



NIL is definitely a thing
Facilities are a thing
But when you throw weather on it kind of makes me think you’re just making stuff up.

 

[Dave H]

Perfectly okay! The Gophers have made the tournament 6 times the last 25 years. Hired 2 coaches with a combined 1 year of head coaching experience the last 2 cycles. Per people who would know the budget for the next coach isn't going to change. We play in a 100 year old arena. We have bottom tier NIL. You get what you pay for and that is a bottom tier B1G team.

So we sucked for 25 years, except for the years we didn't suck? Very compelling argument on how past performance is a good predictor of the future. IT IS...except when its not!!!

Good lord I thought our media had terrible takes.

 

[Dave H]

Everything you said is true. Remember this: They hired this same guy who had never been a head coach. Anywhere. To do this job. To me, that's crazy.

I think it is time to move on.

They are building a case that:

1. Ben has done well with the talent he has this year. Let's face it- who among us thought 7-8 wins was possible at the start of the conference season?
2. He had the beginnings of a talented team last year with Hawkins and Payne now starting on top 20 squads- but the NIL wasn't there to keep them (I blame that partly on Ben).
3. We will have the money to compete next year so Ben can do this if he has the financial backing.

That's their case. Not mine.

I don't like his offensive scheme or his defense. I don't like how he uses the bench. I don't like how he uses his timeouts. I don't think he's any better than an average recruiter. I don't think he has managed or built rosters. He has mostly brought in guards that lack speed- Hawkins and Asuma being the exceptions. He brings in guys that can't shoot or are otherwise one dimensional. The bench gets shorter as the season goes on and guys disappear.

To his credit- his teams play hard and he brings in good attitude/character kids. That is a plus for sure.

Let me guess, you believed it every time Doogie said the U was calling Fred Hoiberg too

 

[bga1]

Let me guess, you believed it every time Doogie said the U was calling Fred Hoiberg too

Uh no. But I am not sure what caused that post by you.

 

[Dave H]

I’m just not sure the U wants to be good at basketball. I see the investments in other sports.

Same thing people said about football. Now all of a sudden football steals all the money according to those same people...