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Gopher_In_NYC said:
To a degree, but unlike football, where your position coach spends the most time with a player, on basketball it’s the head coach you’re regularly interacting with - it’s been widely recognized that multiple local players and coaches didn’t like Pitino, while Ben engenders the converse.
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It is different every year, every player, every staff. All Kimani did was recruit and similarly for Ben.
The people bashing Pitino bash him because he didn't recruit them hard enough....so they are bitter. Pitino recruited just fine. His roster construction was not good....he didn't have the depth to withstand injuries and his choices too often were involved in controversy and/or unavailable.
Hindsight is 20/20 on some of these situations.
Year two at New Mexico he qualifies for the post season with one bench player on the roster from the previous coach. That would seem to indicate he can recruit. They beat Sweet 16 San Diego St and lost with no time on the clock. Mountain West has good teams.
Once again, his best player gets injured and they finish in a funk....but like he does, they were the last undefeated team in the country this year. They give you hope almost every year. To date it always crumbles but he flirts with the Top 25 almost every year for a couple weeks...and again this year.
Pitino also has loyal followers...people who do like him. Coaching is hard.
 

golfing18now said:
The attempt to address Pitino's perceived weakness (local recruiting) was given to the guy that was responsible for local recruiting during the Pitino tenure? Or are we now arguing the local recruiting only sucked for the three years after Ben left? Getting local kids to commit is more than just having relationships with AAU coaches. Kids want to try other places too. Just because dad played here, doesn't mean (insert local high school kid) wants to play here too.

Regarding the racism charge......Reusse flat out said in the interview that Dutcher was Coyle's first choice but he was over-ruled. Reusse is far more plugged in to what is going on at the University than any of us here. I believe him. So why then was Coyle over-ruled? Surely it wasn't the resume that wasn't good enough for Montana State of Northern Illinois. Nobody that makes this diversity hire declaration is bothered by the fact a minority candidate was hired. Most of us are bothered that a far more qualified minority candidate wasn't hired (i.e. Shrewsberry, Gates, etc.).
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You're supposed to let people hire their own people and trust their judgment. If you don't trust them to hire people, then you hired the wrong person or you should have fired that person. You have managers below you who have a better understanding of the situation because they're on the frontline or closer to it.

How in the heck can anyone hold Coyle accountable for Johnson if Gabel is calling the shots? There can't be accountability if there's no responsibility in the first place.

Gabel is a nightmare. The regents need to grow a pair and keep her in line. Shape up or ship out.
 

goldengophers said:
Nearly every program has that guy, nearly every one of them doesn't get to skip ladder steps on the way to a major HC job.
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You missed my point, which was you can’t blame Ben for everything; kids come there for the school and or the HC.

Regarding your rant - well he did skip steps, but I never said he didn’t, did I? Or say it was optimal or correct. My point was you can’t blame him for everything under the sun, which is incorrect and not fair.
 
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60's Guy said:
It is different every year, every player, every staff. All Kimani did was recruit and similarly for Ben.
The people bashing Pitino bash him because he didn't recruit them hard enough....so they are bitter. Pitino recruited just fine. His roster construction was not good....he didn't have the depth to withstand injuries and his choices too often were involved in controversy and/or unavailable.
Hindsight is 20/20 on some of these situations.
Year two at New Mexico he qualifies for the post season with one bench player on the roster from the previous coach. That would seem to indicate he can recruit. They beat Sweet 16 San Diego St and lost with no time on the clock. Mountain West has good teams.
Once again, his best player gets injured and they finish in a funk....but like he does, they were the last undefeated team in the country this year. They give you hope almost every year. To date it always crumbles but he flirts with the Top 25 almost every year for a couple weeks...and again this year.
Pitino also has loyal followers...people who do like him. Coaching is hard.
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Thanks for your post.

My point was that people cannot blame Ben for everything, what’s the next the Lindbergh Baby?

From my understanding, he was the lead recruiter for both Coffey and Otoru, the best MN born players in a long time IMO.
 
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Gopher_In_NYC said:
Thanks for your post.

My point was that people cannot blame Ben for everything, what’s the next the Lindbergh Baby?

From my understanding, he was the lead recruiter for both Coffey and Otoru, the best MN born players in a long time IMO.
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Sounds like Ben was certainly a big part of those two guys for sure.
Ben seems like a great guy. He was hired to do a job he isn't ready for.
 

60's Guy said:
Sounds like Ben was certainly a big part of those two guys for sure.
Ben seems like a great guy. He was hired to do a job he isn't ready for.
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You’re likely right, but I shall remain optimistic, as that is my nature and hope he and the team take a giant step forward next year.
 


Knock Down the Barn, play in T. Ctr. for a year, start over with a real commitment from Biz Corp, NIL, Etc. Make new ‘Barn’ an 8K arena that ROCKS!! That is the real answer! BUT it will take real $$ and real commitment!! (FYI, ain’t, gonna happen, the U is are broke!)…….
 




SoMpls said:
Pitino wasn’t ready and he got 7 years.
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If it's a joke...good one. If you really are comparing the two:
Pitino won 25 games and the NIT Championship in year one.
Year 2 he was 6 and 12 in the conference
Year 3 disaster... 2 and 16 in the conference...sound familiar?
But the year 4 response: NCAA Tournament and 11 and 7 in the conference...that was good for Big Ten Coach of the Year
Ben has two last place finishes....he needs to offer something year 3 to get year four....wouldn't you agree? They don't compare so far.
 

Oly O Hooper said:
Knock Down the Barn, play in T. Ctr. for a year, start over with a real commitment from Biz Corp, NIL, Etc. Make new ‘Barn’ an 8K arena that ROCKS!! That is the real answer! BUT it will take real $$ and real commitment!! (FYI, ain’t, gonna happen, the U is are broke!)…….
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Nah. Take the money it would take to build an new arena and throw it at NIL. When we win a few championships by buying players, then build a new arena with all the new cash flowing in. From what I can see NIL is the best near term investment there is.
 

60's Guy said:
If it's a joke...good one. If you really are comparing the two:
Pitino won 25 games and the NIT Championship in year one.
Year 2 he was 6 and 12 in the conference
Year 3 disaster... 2 and 16 in the conference...sound familiar?
But the year 4 response: NCAA Tournament and 11 and 7 in the conference...that was good for Big Ten Coach of the Year
Ben has two last place finishes....he needs to offer something year 3 to get year four....wouldn't you agree? They don't compare so far.
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No comparison necessary. One had 8 years to prove he would become one of the worst coaches in conference games. One has had two. One inherited something that could play. One inherited a losing mess created by the other. Just depends on how you want to look at it. FYI, every team has injuries. You only notice ours as this is the team you follow. No worries. It is only a message board.
 



builtbadgers said:
No comparison necessary. One had 8 years to prove he would become one of the worst coaches in conference games. One has had two. One inherited something that could play. One inherited a losing mess created by the other. Just depends on how you want to look at it. FYI, every team has injuries. You only notice ours as this is the team you follow. No worries. It is only a message board.
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It's an argument over levels and timing of incompetence, Ben deserves to be gone regardless.
 


scools12 said:
The idea that the U’s Administration is anti-athletics has been around for decades.

Glen Mason during his segment with Barrerio during the college football season basically talks about it weekly. Mason says he had to continually fight against the Administration to get anything he could for the football program.
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Mason also coached when they played in the dome and had one of the worst practice facilities in the B1G. Some things have changed.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Pat IS plugged in, and I believe him, too. He'll BS and exhibit intellectual dishonesty, but he's not a liar.

This is the closest thing we've seen to direct evidence that the president's office directed a skin-color hire. (Along with her recent ethical problems, this is an increasingly bad look for Gabel. Strictly race-based hiring is NOT affirmative action or equity.)

If all true, Dutcher knows he wasn't jilted or passed over by Coyle. That's important if we end up in the same place in the next couple years: looking for a coach again. Coyle may be biding his time and low-grade I-told-you-so-ing with his superiors; next time it's his call.
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Ben was a diversity hire, that's not ground breaking analysis. But Pat is 100% lying about NIL.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Mason also coached when they played in the dome and had one of the worst practice facilities in the B1G. Some things have changed.
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Some things have changed but my point still stands that the impression the Administration at the U has an anti-athletics bias isn’t new.

Whether it is true or not is debatable.
 

SoMpls said:
Pitino wasn’t ready and he got 7 years.
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Actually, 8 years. Pitino started off well though (25 wins and an NIT championship in year 1). His second year was disappointing to be sure but it was still a winning season. His 3rd season was awful but he did well enough in his first three to get a 4th. His 4th season was very successful. From then on it was just a matter of when he would have two losing seasons in a row which he finally did in his 7th and 8th seasons.
 

60's Guy said:
Ben has two last place finishes....he needs to offer something year 3 to get year four....wouldn't you agree?
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Yes, I would. I've been adamant that he deserves a 3rd year because I haven't seen a Big Ten basketball coach fired after two years but I have seen two failed Big Ten coaches this century who were fired after three seasons. One could argue that since Hoiberg didn't get fired after starting with three losing seasons and having only a .500 season in his fourth that Ben should get at least four but I won't go that far.

I do agree with Builtbadgers that Ben Johnson faced much more difficult circumstances in his first two years than Pitino but I don't think that gives him an automatic 4 years.
 

scools12 said:
Some things have changed but my point still stands that the impression the Administration at the U has an anti-athletics bias isn’t new.

Whether it is true or not is debatable.
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It’s not true because if the U was anti-athletics, they wouldn’t have athletics. And they wouldn’t have spent 100s of millions on new facilities to support them.
 

dbmn said:
Had 3 kids that attended gopher bb games from before they could walk, graduating High School after 2012. All decided to attend UW Madison. Not only are many of the academics higher rated than the UoM, but their BB and FB tradition was a different level than the UofM. They'd never admit it but the Athletics tradition and game day experience at Wisc was the primary reason for going to Wisc. So, to the UofM Administration, you may think athletics is not important to students, but it's partially due to the administration not competing on a level playing field with the other B10 teams that also make it one of the school's priorities to have winning programs.
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So obviously, your family doesn't subscribe to the "better dead than red" philosophy.

UW is more of a college town and is well know for its partying. UM is in a big city and has to compete with all of the pro-sports for attention. As far as academics, the schools are very close, it all depend upon your major.

edurank.org

100+ Best Universities in the United States [2024 Rankings]

Below is the list of the top 100 best universities in the United States ranked based on their reputation, research performance, and alumni impact. No surveys - no bias. A graph of 24.7M academic publications and 798M citations was processed.
edurank.org edurank.org
 

alchemy2u said:
So obviously, your family doesn't subscribe to the "better dead than red" philosophy.

UW is more of a college town and is well know for its partying. UM is in a big city and has to compete with all of the pro-sports for attention. As far as academics, the schools are very close, it all depend upon your major.

edurank.org

100+ Best Universities in the United States [2024 Rankings]

Below is the list of the top 100 best universities in the United States ranked based on their reputation, research performance, and alumni impact. No surveys - no bias. A graph of 24.7M academic publications and 798M citations was processed.
edurank.org edurank.org
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Let's be honest, there will always be a certain number of kids that want to go away to school and not in the area they grew up in. That's just natural.
 

alchemy2u said:
So obviously, your family doesn't subscribe to the "better dead than red" philosophy.

UW is more of a college town and is well know for its partying. UM is in a big city and has to compete with all of the pro-sports for attention. As far as academics, the schools are very close, it all depend upon your major.

edurank.org

100+ Best Universities in the United States [2024 Rankings]

Below is the list of the top 100 best universities in the United States ranked based on their reputation, research performance, and alumni impact. No surveys - no bias. A graph of 24.7M academic publications and 798M citations was processed.
edurank.org edurank.org
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Like it or not, Wisconsin is well ahead of the U in research. They're a tier above.

Does that matter to most undergrads who get a bachelor's in something and then go look for a job? Probably not. Particularly if you're looking to stay around somewhere between Mpls and Chicago.
 

I think we need to fix what's unattractive to retain players here first and then go get our top dollar coach. Ben's a good enough coach and a good enough evaluator of young talent to continue to put reasonable looking basketball players on the floor. So far the problem is getting players to stay here and I am not hearing they don't want to stay because of Ben. Do we expect the head coach to be the #1 NIL fundraiser or is that the AD's job. Ben's not standing on a desk demanding a new stadium because he doesn't have the gravitas to do so. That needs to come from the AD as well. IF the AD fixes those issues and Ben can't build a program with players that can demand 2nd tier NIL (we won't keep first tier talent for a long time) then at least your ready to bring in a coach. Right now we're just good enough to be attractive to players who have yet to get a good NIL deal, they can come here and through the big ten exposure, up their resume to move on to somewhere and get paid. I don't think we get Fleck if he had to come in and build the football stadium and we won't get a top tier BBall coach until NIL and stadium get addressed.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
It’s not true because if the U was anti-athletics, they wouldn’t have athletics. And they wouldn’t have spent 100s of millions on new facilities to support them.
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They may not be full anti but they aren’t huge from a support standpoint. Athletics pay the bills but def not prioritize
 

Gophers_4life said:
Reading his bio, this has "dirty money/win at all costs" written all over it -- my wild, worthless, gut feel.

Not necessarily saying that's a bad thing .....
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He can do everything you want without being AD. Coyle is a good AD. I have a feeling he already knows who his target is in 2024 if Johnson doesn’t show a sign next season. Financially he has things lined up nice. Just doubled the women’s coach salary from Whalen.
 


GopherPlaya said:
They may not be full anti but they aren’t huge from a support standpoint. Athletics pay the bills but def not prioritize
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My guess is that there are plenty of the administration at the U that would much sooner see successful women's sports than men's basketball or football. I think it is more of a necessary irritation than...as you say a priority. Unfortunately they fail to recognize that athletics while they should fall behind actual academics, sports is a huge adder to the student experience and to the image of the school. It's actually attractive to have great men's sports teams.
 


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