Ranking Big Ten schools on recruiting appeal

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Being a Gopher fan since early 70's I can say that it is like alot of things in life, its complex. First our local media has never been (besides Sid) very helpful or supportive, the Twin Cites is a region filled with folks not from here, meaning many fans from many other programs around the region, not just the U of M. This has lead to a mixed message in the community in terms of support of the program (just read the comments of the Startrib comment section after any gopher FB story). Finally the politics at the U have worked against the football program for decades. The lack of adminstration support has been a killer. I recall being shocked when the new stadium was approved and built just like that. My sense was this had to do with a combo platter of shame, guilt and pressure from the big 10 coharts after years of neglect. So our FB program has been fighting a uphill battle with a larger community which has been indifferent at best and hostile at the worst. I see Jerry being the andote for much of this history, really hard for the media to be hostile towards him and the program, difficult for the adminstration to not support him, basically he is a perfect fit for our program and region.He has the potential here to build something special. I can say for the first time in my lifetime that within 3-5 years we can play in the Rose Bowl.
 


This is as good of a time as any to remind everyone that it isn't the money keeping us out of the top 25. We get enough support to make us a top 25 program by football profits and top 10 in basketball profits.

In 5 years we'll have better practice facilities and a recent history of winning. We'll start to get more of the Ragnows and Hassenauers. We still won't have a gameday experience with 100,000 fans. It seems like we might have a rough time trying to fill up the stands if the Bank is expanded to 80,000, but I think we'd fill the seats at the right price. If you build it, they will come.
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
You either made a mistake (understandable), refuse to admit you're wrong when you know you're wrong to save face and pride (childish and morally questionable), or a troll (bad person).
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A stocker combo platter I believe.
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
You either read it wrong, don't know how to read, or are intentionally misrepresenting things.

You quoted a post wrong in order to support your opinion. You said this, "we need more support from the state to play at a top tier level." The actual quote is this, "this state has a ways to go in terms of support to get the football and basketball programs to the top tier level."

Your quote defines support as resources from the state government. The actual quote defines support much more broadly and encompassing.

You either made a mistake (understandable), refuse to admit you're wrong when you know you're wrong to save face and pride (childish and morally questionable), or a troll (bad person).
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So a few words were unintentionally switched around. My condensed version pretty much says the same exact thing.

How does my quote define support as resources from the state? The state can be the people living in it. Why does it have to be the state government? Read the third post. Read Indi's response a couple posts later. Then read G7B0's response to Indi. He rehashes the pro sport idea that he offered in his first post.

I can only assume that you and station19 are part of the "woe is me", blame the pro sports crowd with your blind defense of clearly stated posts.
 




Gopherguy0723 said:
So are you still unwilling to admit that the Vikings aren't one of many factors that negatively impacts the Gophers?
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I never said otherwise. Would we be better off without pro sports in the state? Of course. I simply think that it is a lousy excuse for the teams performance. On field performance dictates the direction of the program.
 

I would like to know how the Vikings played a role in all of our 4th quarter collapses over the last 15 years.
 



stocker08 said:
So a few words were unintentionally switched around. My condensed version pretty much says the same exact thing.

How does my quote define support as resources from the state? The state can be the people living in it. Why does it have to be the state government? Read the third post. Read Indi's response a couple posts later. Then read G7B0's response to Indi. He rehashes the pro sport idea that he offered in his first post.

I can only assume that you and station19 are part of the "woe is me", blame the pro sports crowd with your blind defense of clearly stated posts.
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Why do you struggle so much with the English language?
 






MadtownGopher said:
Facilities, facilities, facilities. Man, I can't wait until we don't have to hear about how ****ty they are.
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Totally with you on this. MN needs a major investment in athletic training facilities. Might not make them Michigan or OSU but it could keep them in the upper half...
 


station19 said:
Witch hunt?

Just looking for truthful statements. You seem to have a problem with that.
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Not at all. Never said that the Gophers wouldn't be better off without the pro sports teams. Just said that it's a crappy excuse and shouldn't dictate the program's success or failure.
 

stocker08 said:
Not at all. Never said that the Gophers wouldn't be better off without the pro sports teams. Just said that it's a crappy excuse and shouldn't dictate the program's success or failure.
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Lots of things shouldn't happen, but wishing it didn't happen doesn't make it less true.
 

BarnBoy said:
I would like to know how the Vikings played a role in all of our 4th quarter collapses over the last 15 years.
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Not having good enough players or depth to finish hard-fought games.
 

stocker08 said:
Refer back to the third post. We don't have enough support.....that's why we can't compete. It's an excuse. A lousy one.
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My point is that people talk about the Vikings. People talk about Twins. I have to initiate Gopher football and basketball conversation to friends and family. That conversation lasts less than a minute. I only have luck with my brother-in-law because he is a U of M grad and has a work connection with the U. If Gopher athletics was anywhere near the level of the Vikes and Twins, they would have broken ground on new practice facilities and other upgrades by now and would attract higher quality recruits. I believe Gophers sports can compete, but a lot more people need to get on board. We have a long way to go in that regard.
 

josh087 said:
I read the post. Nowhere does it say that the Vikings can't compete for Championships only because of the Vikings.

Keep trying.

The reality is the Vikings negatively impacts the Gophers. Cold weather negatively impacts the Gophers. The recruiting area negatively impacts the Gophers. Hiring decisions have negatively impacted the Gophers.

ALL of these factors (and others) must be acknowledged and addressed for the Gophers to have the best shot at winning titles as possible. The fact is, however, the Vikings are one of them.

For Christ's sake, athletic directors from around the country have organized conferences with the sole purpose being to discuss how their college institutions can better compete in a pro sports environment.

Let's just stop believing the myth that the Vikings have no impact on the Gophers.

Let's instead embrace the problem and find ways to work around it.
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I can't believe my original post has caused such a passionate response and your post is the most eloquent one yet to describe the current state of Golden Gopher athletics.
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
You either read it wrong, don't know how to read, or are intentionally misrepresenting things.

You quoted a post wrong in order to support your opinion. You said this, "we need more support from the state to play at a top tier level." The actual quote is this, "this state has a ways to go in terms of support to get the football and basketball programs to the top tier level."

Your quote defines support as resources from the state government. The actual quote defines support much more broadly and encompassing.

You either made a mistake (understandable), refuse to admit you're wrong when you know you're wrong to save face and pride (childish and morally questionable), or a troll (bad person).
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Nailed it. Stocker08 is a complete idiot.
 

josh087 said:
I read the post. Nowhere does it say that the Vikings can't compete for Championships only because of the Vikings.

Keep trying.

The reality is the Vikings negatively impacts the Gophers. Cold weather negatively impacts the Gophers. The recruiting area negatively impacts the Gophers. Hiring decisions have negatively impacted the Gophers.

ALL of these factors (and others) must be acknowledged and addressed for the Gophers to have the best shot at winning titles as possible. The fact is, however, the Vikings are one of them.

For Christ's sake, athletic directors from around the country have organized conferences with the sole purpose being to discuss how their college institutions can better compete in a pro sports environment.

Let's just stop believing the myth that the Vikings have no impact on the Gophers.

Let's instead embrace the problem and find ways to work around it.
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It it is so far from reality I don't think it even deserves myth status.
 

Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0 said:
It's not that big of a mystery. In this town, Vikes and Twins rule the sports scene. Everyone else is far behind. Wild are probably third. I wish U of M athletics was bigger here, but this state has a ways to go in terms of support to get the football and basketball programs to the top tier level.
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Not. Teams that perform well attract an audience.
 

Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0 said:
Nailed it. Stocker08 is a complete idiot.
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You are the idiot for believing that the pro sports teams are the ones separating the Gophers from success. If the Gophers were a good football team on a year to year basis, they would have no problem with support. Quit making excuses.
 

I just don't buy it. Just because the Gophers share the same town as the Vikes and the Twins it doesn't mean those teams have any more of an influence over the entire state than the Detroit teams have over Michigan, the Wisconsin teams over Wisconsin, etc. If that's true, wouldn't all Wisconsin and Michigan teams be similarly 'plighted' with a lack of support? Hell, Packer fans are much more passionate than Vikings fans and they still seem to get up for the Badgers.

If this whole pro-sports team taking away from college holds true then the only real schools with an advantage would be those in areas where there are no pro sports teams. Iowa, Nebraska for example. However, it's pretty clear that OSU, Michigan, Penn State, Notre Dame, etc. can share a state with multiple pro sports teams and still be successful. Just because they're not in the geographic same city doesn't mean that the fan base for those pro teams isn't there. You all making that argument seem to believe that sports support is a geographic island surrounded by some arbitrary mile radius around each stadium. It's not the case. People in Eau Claire love the Packers and are damn near all the way across the state.
 


Dean S said:
Not. Teams that perform well attract an audience.
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Yes…..BUT the Vikes still sell out when they are 3-13 and the Twins still draw well during 3 straight 90+ loss seasons.

How well do the Gophers draw when things aren't good? They barely sell out when the product is good.

It's a Vikes and Twins town; thus, the "success brings an audience" stance isn't necessarily the only correlation for attendance and interest.
 


maroonedinCA said:
I just don't buy it. Just because the Gophers share the same town as the Vikes and the Twins it doesn't mean those teams have any more of an influence over the entire state than the Detroit teams have over Michigan, the Wisconsin teams over Wisconsin, etc. If that's true, wouldn't all Wisconsin and Michigan teams be similarly 'plighted' with a lack of support? Hell, Packer fans are much more passionate than Vikings fans and they still seem to get up for the Badgers.

If this whole pro-sports team taking away from college holds true then the only real schools with an advantage would be those in areas where there are no pro sports teams. Iowa, Nebraska for example. However, it's pretty clear that OSU, Michigan, Penn State, Notre Dame, etc. can share a state with multiple pro sports teams and still be successful. Just because they're not in the geographic same city doesn't mean that the fan base for those pro teams isn't there. You all making that argument seem to believe that sports support is a geographic island surrounded by some arbitrary mile radius around each stadium. It's not the case. People in Eau Claire love the Packers and are damn near all the way across the state.
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The other schools you mention are still fans of the pro teams but it's different. Pro Team fan bases draw regionally. College fan bases (yes, are spread out), but are more localized with Pro Teams in the mix. NW and Gophs are only true urbanized "traditional" B1G schools.

East Lansing 90 miles from Detroit
Ann Arbor 43 miles from Detroit
Madison 136 miles from Green Bay

Minneapolis 0 miles away from Minneapolis.
 

OddStack said:
The other schools you mention are still fans of the pro teams but it's different. Pro Team fan bases draw regionally. College fan bases (yes, are spread out), but are more localized with Pro Teams in the mix. NW and Gophs are only true urbanized "traditional" B1G schools.

East Lansing 90 miles from Detroit
Ann Arbor 43 miles from Detroit
Madison 136 miles from Green Bay

Minneapolis 0 miles away from Minneapolis.
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I guess I fail to see your point. And for all intents and purposes, as I've said before, having been in Ann Arbor for several years of my previous life is basically a western suburb of Detroit. Unlike Minneapolis which is a big circle surrounding the major city greater Detroit can only expand in half a circle thus their suburbs stretch much, much further west than Minneapolis does in any direction.

Let me try to understand your point and I'm sorry as I'm not trying to be smug:

1). Pro sports teams draw regionally (like statewide?)
2). College fan bases are more local
3). College teams aren't located in the same place as pro teams therefore they get more support (the last part is implied based on where you were trying to go though you never stated it directly)

So let's take the example of Madison as it's furthest from it's Pro Team based on your mileage above:

1). Packers draw across all of Wisconsin (regionally)
2). Wisconsin only draws locally (Madison)
3). Madison isn't in Green Bay therefore Wisconsin gets a better draw of fans

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point or maybe you're trying to make a different point but based on what I'm interpretting it doesn't make sense. Unless you're somehow saying that because Madison is far away from Green Bay therefore people in Madison are more inclined to cheer on the Badgers at the expense of the Packers which isn't what you implied by the regional aspect of Pro Football fandom.

States with pro and college teams can cooexist from a support perspective.
 

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