Postgame thoughts

[jimmyvalvanoguy]

The decline in ability for Hollins over his four years is quite remarkable; if his outside shot isn't falling, he isn't of much use on the court.[/QUOTE]

Hollins looks slow. Maybe it is turf toe, but no matter the cause he looks slow. Maybe the athletes are getting better or his injuries have caused him to lose a step.
He is slow on D and his first step really is a no factor in creating shots.

 

[LakerFan]

Uh.. Not sure why people are making the assumption we will make the NIT. We are several wins away from the minimum requirement and in total freefall.

I wondered at times last night why we don't play some of our marginally talented bench players over our marginally talented starters. Then I saw how Morris plays defense against a good team and figured it out.

Someone asked how this could be a rebuilding year with all the seniors. Hollins is either hurt or quit the team but hasn't let anyone know yet. Walker wasn't good enough to start on a couple of bad gopher teams for two years so the fact he is a senior is pretty irrelevant. He wasn't as good as an average Big 10 Big man freshman until this year. Eliason was marginally better than Walker in those first years and has worked super hard to become marginally worse than Walker 4 years later. Mathieu is playing his butt off but can't do it alone. King is hard worker, decent shooter, but can't dribble and can't finish inside.

Only bright side to this season is we have above average ball handling for a Gopher team. Mathieu, Morris, Hollins, Mason can all actually dribble the ball. That's been the best part to watch.

 

[BballJones]

1. Is Carlos Morris the worst defensive player ever?
2. You can't get down 12 points at halftime and expect to win.
3. You can't give up 25 points in a half to a freshman.
4. Blocked shots - Ohio St. had 8, Gophers 2.
5. Ohio St. appeared to be the more athletic team. I was surprised to see that we outrebounded them.

1. He's up there. It's tough to watch.
2. Apparently we aren't St Johns or Purdue, or playing ourselves.
3. +1
4. No shock there.
5. By far more athletic. Loving and Russell are incredibly athletic. But rebounding isn't about athleticism I guess...see Kevin Love, or Dusty Rychart for that matter.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

The decline in ability for Hollins over his four years is quite remarkable; if his outside shot isn't falling, he isn't of much use on the court.

Hollins looks slow. Maybe it is turf toe, but no matter the cause he looks slow. Maybe the athletes are getting better or his injuries have caused him to lose a step.
He is slow on D and his first step really is a no factor in creating shots.

I do not remember him ever being fast, maybe slightly faster than today, but never explosive or a guy that get get to the rim. He is a good shooter when hes on, and has had some historically hot run like the last 10 games of his Freshman year, 41 vs Memphis, a very good Sophomore Big10 season and non conference junior season, post injury junior year was streaky as all get out, and now he's more of the same.

When he was at his best he was getting to the line and MAKING 90% of his freethrows. Now he might have lost a step, but it's not like he was ever taking anyone off the bounce and getting layups. If he gets hot from the midrange/outside again he will be able to put up 15+ a game as teams will have to respect a pull up jumper more. That might in turn get him a few more bump fouls headed to the line. But his decline in athletic ability, in my opinion, has been greatly exaggerated.

I might have amnesia, but Hollins is who he is. A great jump shooter who appears to be hobbled on the court due to injury. Not getting as much separation due to not as much mobility, but the majority of his issues are in that he isn't making shots and not getting to the line, dude used to have 8+ ft a game.

 

[jimmyvalvanoguy]

I do not remember him ever being fast, maybe slightly faster than today, but never explosive or a guy that get get to the rim. He is a good shooter when hes on, and has had some historically hot run like the last 10 games of his Freshman year, 41 vs Memphis, a very good Sophomore Big10 season and non conference junior season, post injury junior year was streaky as all get out, and now he's more of the same.

When he was at his best he was getting to the line and MAKING 90% of his freethrows. Now he might have lost a step, but it's not like he was ever taking anyone off the bounce and getting layups. If he gets hot from the midrange/outside again he will be able to put up 15+ a game as teams will have to respect a pull up jumper more. That might in turn get him a few more bump fouls headed to the line. But his decline in athletic ability, in my opinion, has been greatly exaggerated.

I might have amnesia, but Hollins is who he is. A great jump shooter who appears to be hobbled on the court due to injury. Not getting as much separation due to not as much mobility, but the majority of his issues are in that he isn't making shots and not getting to the line, dude used to have 8+ ft a game.

We agree, Hollins is not effective. Nate Mason should be starting. Hollins can come off the bench. Mason is more effective and deserves to play. We will see if Pitino agrees. It is obvious to most of us that the team is better with Mason on the court.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

We agree, Hollins is not effective. Nate Mason should be starting. Hollins can come off the bench. Mason is more effective and deserves to play. We will see if Pitino agrees. It is obvious to most of us that the team is better with Mason on the court.

We do not agree, maybe that Hollins is struggling, but thats about it.

Nate Mason shot 28%, Hollins shot 23%.

The decline of Hollins has been greatly exaggerated as has the rise of Nate Mason. Not saying one isn't struggling and the other doesn't show promise. However you, like many other gopher holers, are going waaay overboard on some of this sh1t.

 

[Bad Gopher]

That Gopher defense was the closest thing to the Generals pretending to guard the Globetrotters since...the last time I saw the Generals play the Globetrotters. It was pathetic. In a not unrelated note, Mason has been on the floor at the end of the last two games instead of Morris - and for a significant stretch of time. It's clear that Pitino doesn't trust Squirrel's defense or shot selection at critical times, and I can't blame him. For Carlos to make up for his shortcomings he needs to be a scoring machine, and he's not a scoring machine.

This game was eerily similar to Minnesota/Purdue last week except in the last five minutes of regulation. That's when the Gophers fell to pieces against the Boilermakers. In this game OSU did allow the tie, but they didn't completely collapse.

These games come down to who wants it more, who believes in themselves, who feels they deserve success and who executes.

 

[cjbfbp]

The goal is to make the tourney. Can you honestly say there are enough wins in the remaining games to do that? Name one notable win this year.

Yes, there are enough games left. Nebraska started 0-4 last year and finished 11-7 in the conference. I'm not claiming we will emulate that performance, but it isn't impossible.

So far Georgia looks like a quality win (although they did lose last night).

 

[bigticket1]

If Mason makes both FT's we win in regulation. Very tough loss.

You forgot to say the same thing about our senior leader career 86% free throw shooter who also went 1 for 2 late in regulation.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Yes, there are enough games left. Nebraska started 0-4 last year and finished 11-7 in the conference. I'm not claiming we will emulate that performance, but it isn't impossible.

So far Georgia looks like a quality win (although they did lose last night).

And that's why Pitino needs to continue to preach positivity. He knows this thing can still be turned around, but players who are capable of playing better need to play better.

 

[GuyFawkes]

I was OK with not calling a timeout at the end there but did feel like they should have called one at the end of regulation, there was still a bit of time left and they could have saved a good amount of time by inbounding the ball from backcourt to front court and gotten a better look. I'm reminded of a game a few years ago at Wisconsin where Wisconsin took a 2 pt lead on a lucky shot that bounced up of rim and went in with few secs left, gophers inbounded it around center court, and tubby instantly called time out with little over a sec left, from there the were able to inbound the ball inside to mbakwe where he got fouled, we ended missing the 2nd of the 2 shots and lost but the coaching leading up to that play was good, don't get why more coaches don't do that instead of having their team throw up a prayer from half court

 

[brucekaupa]

King's buzzer shot just landed in Fridley...

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

King's buzzer shot just landed in Fridley...

Hahaha, thanks for the laugh, I needed that.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

After every loss I think I post this, but it's always so damn true. I'm so glad I don't know any of you. Many of you are emotional freaks that deal in complete hyperbole.

Get a goddamn grip, this isn't nearly the team you're making it out to be, and it wasn't nearly the team you made it out to be a month ago.

R.E.L.A.X. - enjoy the process.

Luckily you're not emotional or prone to hyperbole.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

We agree, Hollins is not effective. Nate Mason should be starting. Hollins can come off the bench. Mason is more effective and deserves to play. We will see if Pitino agrees. It is obvious to most of us that the team is better with Mason on the court.

Doosh move. Just say your piece, don't act like everyone else thinks you're right. Your opinion is no better than anyone else's.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

Luckily you're not emotional or prone to hyperbole.

I'm the king of Hyperbole, that's why I can see it being used so well!

 

[GopherCountry]

In response posted earlier about whether MO gives us more on the offensive end than he hurts us on the defensive end.....

IMO I would start EE to set the tone defensively and also help rebound better. Additionally, it seems that the offense is more fluid when EE is in there instead of concentrating on feeding MO the ball down low. I love MO's offensive game but I think it takes away from the ball movement too many times and for long stretches. I'd rather have MO come of the bench and be that spark plug if things are not going well. Plus, I have only seen MO pass the ball back out once or twice this entire year. In last night's game, he was doubled many times and never thought about passing it back out. It doesn't help though either when everyone else stands on the perimeter instead of cutting to the hoop.

 

[scher215]

We do not agree, maybe that Hollins is struggling, but thats about it. Nate Mason shot 28%, Hollins shot 23%. The decline of Hollins has been greatly exaggerated as has the rise of Nate Mason. Not saying one isn't struggling and the other doesn't show promise. However you, like many other gopher holers, are going waaay overboard on some of this sh1t.

Not disagreeing with your overall point. But the difference between Hollins and Mason can't be described by only shooting percentage. Andre picked it up significantly in the second half, but has been a sloppy ball handler and not a quick defender as of late. Really hoping for a turnaround there.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

My thoughts...

- Great crowd. Great energy once we got back into the game. I went with a friend who's an OSU grad and he was very impressed with the barn and the crowd.

- As someone else said, this team is bad, but it's still fun to watch.

- As someone else said "We have four Seniors, if this is a rebuilding year, what does that make next year?".

- I don't blame Pitino for not taking a time out at the end. What for? Too let OSU get set defensively and then run a play that we can't execute? Our best shot was letting Lil Dre race up court and make something happen. It didn't work out and the better team won.

- Lil Dre is solid, but limited offensively due to his size. I enjoy him and what he does, but look forward to next year when we start fresh with the new guards and Mason.

- Dre Hollins pulling it out of the ditch is our only shot at winning some games this year. Pitino is still on his honeymoon, so people are being nice, but if it was Tubby at the helm people would be asking how a player like Dre could "regress" this much under a coach? I really think Dre is a player who's better with the ball in his hands. While he doesn't drive the hoop very well, he can create his own shot off the dribble. Without the ball in his hands he has a hard time getting open due to his lack of athleticism.

- Mason is the most complete player on the team, hands down. He plays ferocious defense and really shut down their stud Freshman after he'd been abusing Dre Hollins. He also has a swagger and confidence that this team is desperately lacking. He's probably the toughest guy on the team as far as I can tell. That said, he still has some things to work on. He still gets lost on defense at times. Against Maryland it was so bad, Carlos Morris bad in fact, that he sat for a good chunk of the game. He's also a poor free throw shooter. I've been thinking all year that a PG has to be better at the line than he is and that it would hurt us at some point this year. Last night was that night.

- Carlos Morris is maybe the worst defender I've seen since...Charles Buggs. Ugh. He's a guy who needs to sit and be taught by the coach when he messes up, but with McNeil looking at jail time, we have no other option but to let him play through it. Not only is he awful on defense, he's really not that great on offense either. His shot selection is brutal. His basketball IQ, is just not that high. The drop off from Austin Hollins last year to Carlos Morris is huge.

- Charles Buggs is brutal as well. He looks like a carton character out there. Like he's not even taking it seriously. He just doesn't get it and he's a pretty old player (21 y/o) to not get it yet. Add in the fact that he's booby soft, and it's not pretty. To put it in perspective, Joey King is our starting PF, Carlos Morris is our starting SF, we have no reserves ahead of him and Buggs can only get a total of 6 minutes backing up both of them.

- Joey King does the best he can. He's completely outclassed playing PF in the B1G, but at least conceptually, he understands what he's supposed to do. I'd like to see him try a little harder at rebounding and boxing out (looks like he has T-Rex arms when he boxes out), but he's physically outclassed against every single PF in the B1G conference, so it is what it is. I remember a lot of debate about this last year, but does anyone think Oto wouldn't be an upgrade right now if healthy and eligible?

- Apparently Bakary & Gaston between them aren't capable of giving us one single minute. Doesn't inspire much confidence for next year, does it?

- Mo is what he is. He can score with his finesse stuff, but If we had a "soft" contest, he and Buggs would face each other in the finals. He gets the ball ripped away by guys half his size consistently. He doesn't box out at all. He doesn't rebound unless it falls into his lap and only then if it's below the rim. On that note, he may be the shortest 6'11" player in basketball. Everything is below the rim. Lay ups, finger rolls, tip ins. He's not the reason we're not playing well, but he's frustrating to watch because I really get the feeling his problem is lack of effort, not lack of talent.

- Elliot of course is like a photo negative of Mo. With Mo, you have to check his pulse every two minutes to make sure he's still breathing. With Elliot you have to shoot him with a tranquilizer dart every two minutes to calm him down. He really provided the spark last night that led to our comeback with his defensive aggressiveness and scrappiness under the basket. He is literally the only big on the team who wants to rebound.

- We absolutely HAVE to find a willing rebounder at PF for next year. Even someone like an Andre Ingram (who took a ton of abuse on GH) would be a huge, huge upgrade. Next year we return Mason, bring in Jarvis & Dorsey, so the future should be bright in the back court. We also bring in McBrayer & hopefully Ellison (who visited last night) to play with Morris at SF. At Center we have Bakary (couldn't earn a single minute last night) and Nwanko. I like what I've seen of Nwanko. He looks like he'll rebound and plays with power, but he's limited offensively and will probably be in foul trouble all the time, as many Freshmen bigs are. That leaves PF, where we return King and Buggs. We HAVE to find a PF who will rebound or it'll be another long season.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

I'm the king of Hyperbole, that's why I can see it being used so well!

Love it! Own that shiznit.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

Love it! Own that shiznit.

Great recap, per usual, very stable analysis, lack of extreme hyperbole is troubling....

I disagree with the sentiments on Andre needing the ball in his hands. I might be a better ball handler than he is, I'm competent with both hands, but I'm not a good ball handler. If Mo is the shortest 6'11" guy in the B1G (great description) then Andre is the slowest quick guy in the B1G, Centers could guard him on the dribble drive. Andre is most effective when we are running our weave action and he gets lost in the fray for a set up jumper from either corner or a slot.

I'm probably a bit more optimistic than you. I think we are playing some bad stretches of basketball, that if we could play 40 minutes (what coach doesn't say that right?) we'd be alright.

Carlos Morris can score, and he has shown in other games that he can be efficient, he just struggles in the half court. I've read on here, not you, but someone else stated he would be better served playing man2man than the zone, I'm the opposite. This team might be better served going zone and try and trap and get turnovers. If we get burnt a couple times, so what, try to get 20 TO a game. The likely answer to that question is "depth".

I think the biggest thing here is we are stuck with half a roster of slow it down style players and half a roster of not perfect recruits for a up and down pressure system. Deandre, Mason, Morris, Bakary, Gaston are all guys built to get the ball out and run. Andre, Mo, EE, and even Joey are more slow it down guys. Mix'm together and you got sh1tty lineup variables and a hell of a time trying to gel those styles together.

 

[El Amin Fan]

Good post CRG. Your comment about next year's front court is downright scary. It could be historically bad, but I am looking forward to the back court.

 

[scher215]

Great recap, per usual, very stable analysis, lack of extreme hyperbole is troubling.... I disagree with the sentiments on Andre needing the ball in his hands. I might be a better ball handler than he is, I'm competent with both hands, but I'm not a good ball handler. If Mo is the shortest 6'11" guy in the B1G (great description) then Andre is the slowest quick guy in the B1G, Centers could guard him on the dribble drive. Andre is most effective when we are running our weave action and he gets lost in the fray for a set up jumper from either corner or a slot. I'm probably a bit more optimistic than you. I think we are playing some bad stretches of basketball, that if we could play 40 minutes (what coach doesn't say that right?) we'd be alright. Carlos Morris can score, and he has shown in other games that he can be efficient, he just struggles in the half court. I've read on here, not you, but someone else stated he would be better served playing man2man than the zone, I'm the opposite. This team might be better served going zone and try and trap and get turnovers. If we get burnt a couple times, so what, try to get 20 TO a game. The likely answer to that question is "depth". I think the biggest thing here is we are stuck with half a roster of slow it down style players and half a roster of not perfect recruits for a up and down pressure system. Deandre, Mason, Morris, Bakary, Gaston are all guys built to get the ball out and run. Andre, Mo, EE, and even Joey are more slow it down guys. Mix'm together and you got sh1tty lineup variables and a hell of a time trying to gel those styles together.

Well said on the roster make up. Not sure you've said this, but I don't see next year necessarily being a huge drop off or "rebuilding" year. It very well could be, but if the new recruits play well and contribute and maybe fit the system better we could improve. This isn't football where it could take guys 2-3 years to impact the team. If just 2 of our guards can have seasons comparable or better than Mason has this year, we could be alright. Especially if that fit is there.

The main concern of course comes from the bigs. But what do they always say about college basketball? Guard play!

 

[mnsportsgeek]

We do not agree, maybe that Hollins is struggling, but thats about it.

Nate Mason shot 28%, Hollins shot 23%.

The decline of Hollins has been greatly exaggerated as has the rise of Nate Mason. Not saying one isn't struggling and the other doesn't show promise. However you, like many other gopher holers, are going waaay overboard on some of this sh1t.

Through the first 3 B1G games:

Stat	Andre Hollins	Nate Mason
FG%	18.8%	30.4%
3P%	22.2%	20%
Rebounds	14	9
Reb/min	0.14	0.11
Assists	5	5
Turnovers	5	2
Ast:TO	1.00	2.50
PPG	7	7
Points/min	0.2	0.26
Steals	3	3
eFG%	12.5%	26.1%

I count 4 categories where Nate significantly out performs Andre and the rest are pretty much equal. That's not even mentioning that Nate is a significantly better defender. There is no exaggeration going on. Nate is outplaying Andre.

I don't care whether or not one of them starts over the other, but let's not sugarcoat it.

 

[SelectionSunday]

My main concern as well, next season's frontcourt.

We had one freshman forward that was a total wipeout (Martin), and we now have two freshman bigs (both 21 years old) that don't see any (meaningful) PT despite a roster begging for frontcourt help, even if it's only to supply breathers for Mo, EE, and Joey. That's troublesome.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

Great recap, per usual, very stable analysis, lack of extreme hyperbole is troubling....

I disagree with the sentiments on Andre needing the ball in his hands. I might be a better ball handler than he is, I'm competent with both hands, but I'm not a good ball handler. If Mo is the shortest 6'11" guy in the B1G (great description) then Andre is the slowest quick guy in the B1G, Centers could guard him on the dribble drive. Andre is most effective when we are running our weave action and he gets lost in the fray for a set up jumper from either corner or a slot.

I'm probably a bit more optimistic than you. I think we are playing some bad stretches of basketball, that if we could play 40 minutes (what coach doesn't say that right?) we'd be alright.

Carlos Morris can score, and he has shown in other games that he can be efficient, he just struggles in the half court. I've read on here, not you, but someone else stated he would be better served playing man2man than the zone, I'm the opposite. This team might be better served going zone and try and trap and get turnovers. If we get burnt a couple times, so what, try to get 20 TO a game. The likely answer to that question is "depth".

I think the biggest thing here is we are stuck with half a roster of slow it down style players and half a roster of not perfect recruits for a up and down pressure system. Deandre, Mason, Morris, Bakary, Gaston are all guys built to get the ball out and run. Andre, Mo, EE, and even Joey are more slow it down guys. Mix'm together and you got sh1tty lineup variables and a hell of a time trying to gel those styles together.

I should clarify that he doesn't create his own shot, rather that he needs to ball in his hands to get his shot off via screens, picks n rolls, etc. Asking him to race around the court, get open in the corner to shoot 3's against guys faster and more athletic than him isn't a winning formula, imo.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

Through the first 3 B1G games:

Stat	Andre Hollins	Nate Mason
FG%	18.8%	30.4%
3P%	22.2%	20%
Rebounds	14	9
Reb/min	0.14	0.11
Assists	5	5
Turnovers	5	2
Ast:TO	1.00	2.50
PPG	7	7
Points/min	0.2	0.26
Steals	3	3
eFG%	12.5%	26.1%

I count 4 categories where Nate significantly out performs Andre and the rest are pretty much equal. That's not even mentioning that Nate is a significantly better defender. There is no exaggeration going on. Nate is outplaying Andre.

I don't care whether or not one of them starts over the other, but let's not sugarcoat it.

Neither stat line is impressive afurry. I'm not trying to say that Hollins is outplaying Mason, so I don't get what you are trying to prove by comparing the two.

My comment about the decline of Hollins has been greatly exaggerated isn't so much to prop him up, but to say he never was that great. I'm getting threads mixed up here, but ever since the Wisconsin game he has had numerous stretches of bad basketball combined with numerous stretches of "good" basketball.



Edit: I just realized I'm mixing threads... I don't know what I said to whom or for what reason.... I could be totally off as to where this post came from....

 

[Winasota Gopher]

I should clarify that he doesn't create his own shot, rather that he needs to ball in his hands to get his shot off via screens, picks n rolls, etc. Asking him to race around the court, get open in the corner to shoot 3's against guys faster and more athletic than him isn't a winning formula, imo.

I hear ya, but even on a high ball screen he feigns that contact with his exaggerated head movement and has a propensity to lose the ball in the double team. If I'm an opposing coach, every-time Hollins touches the ball with a high ball screen I storm trap him. Going to get quite a few TO that way.

I think he's best served getting lost by the defense and using his quick release to get jump shots and 3s off. Get fouled and work on your FT game.

i'm not trying to rag on Hollins, I'm higher than most on him, if he wasn't in one of his droughts (eerily similar to Austin last year who went 2 halves without making a bucket at one point irc?) he would be fine. If he hits the J, his slower first step isn't as impactful as a ball fake gives him a lot more space.

 

[Uncle Rico]

2. When did Andre Hollins forget how to dribble?

What about forgetting how to shoot, dribble, shoot FT's, penetrate with any effectiveness, defend, etc? Up front I will say I thought this kid was going to be a stud after his freshman year. I cannot remember being so disappointed with the career of another player at the U, given what we know they were capable of. Its painful to watch. He is a below average starter in the BIG. Who would have thought that 2.5 yrs ago? He just basically curled up and took it in the first half last night. He literally cannot score unless it is an open jumper, zero penetration ability, zero finishing ability.

Also, I don't care if Mo scores 14 ppg or whatever. The guy loses us 10 ppg on turnovers standing directly under the damn rim, not to mention his shoddy defense and rebounding. That's not saying we have any better options.

I think people really need to be careful not to get too wound up over this team. Look around the court at crunch time during a BIG game. Who really belongs? Just my opinion, but my criteria is who belongs on the court for a top 4-5 type team in the BIG....

Mathieu- yes but inconsistency and small stature make him less than ideal also (my favorite player tho)
Hollins- Unbelievable to say, but I am going to say very borderline.
King- No but he tries
Walker- He's a backup C for a good team.
Eliason- spot energy boost, nothing more
Mason- I think yes, projecting from what I've seen
Buggs- No
Morris- No. He doesn't make the team better. Poor D and the ball stops moving when he catches it, every single time.
Gas/Konate- Time will tell.

 

[brucekaupa]

A little more analysis on Joey's "buzzer beater"...

Exhibit A: The shot

Man. Throwing it up with 2.1 seconds left? Just think how much closer he could've been in 1 second. Hell, he might even have gotten fouled. I've heard some say that he should've passed to Dre on the left.

Exhibit B: The result

In the words of at least 3 people around me, and also echoed by me: "That has to be the worst last-second shot I've ever seen."

Not that I expect him to make that, but c'mon...at least hit the backboard.