Point Guard

[Bob_Loblaw]

Paying players to attend a school is an absolute joke. Straight out of the Twilight Zone or 1984.

But everyone is so brainwashed by the smiling faces in suits-&-ties on television that they believe literally anything their told.

You think paying players is Orwellian? LOL. I don't think you've read the book.

I have major issues with the new system in college sports and I don't think it ends well for the vast majority of players (and programs).

However, paying players would bring college athletics back to the exact way things are done for every other thing on the planet - you want someone to pave your driveway, you pay them to pave your driveway at whatever cost they are willing to do the work.

The old NCAA system was person A (school/booster) wants to pay person B to play football at a certain place and in exchange for person B will get paid. That's literally almost every single exchange/interaction we have every day (getting lunch, streaming, getting gas, etc.).

Make no mistake, the Orwellian system before was the NCAA. It made for awesome sports - i'm not denying that - but it was a strange system that we only thought was normal because it was always normal.

 

[MNJay]

Check out the Purdue roster ESPN Purdue roster

*as of today, Gopher freshmen have played a total of 949 minutes out of a total 2425 minutes played...representing 39.13% of all possible minutes played....

Purdue's freshmen have played 980 minutes of a total 2425 minutes, which represents 40.41% of the total possible minutes.
- Fletcher Loyer (339 minutes)
- Braden Smith (345 minutes)
- Trey Kaufman-Renn (182 minutes)
- Sam King (3 minutes)
- Brian Waddell (111 minutes)

Also, they are ranked #1 in the country

Oh oh. Jay and Menno hiding....

Ben's first recruits are freshmen, they appear to have good potential, and they're getting playing-time. And we have very good recruits on the way. I'm hoping for a ground-up rebuild like Haskins did.

This has nothing to do with Purdue.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Ben's first recruits are freshmen, they appear to have good potential, and they're getting playing-time. And we have very good recruits on the way. I'm hoping for a ground-up rebuild like Haskins did.

This has nothing to do with Purdue.

Yeah, they had a lot of competition for that PT.

We don't count Thiam either?

 

[MNJay]

It's like any other sport - the interest comes from the team + players. I've seen way more Maroney jerseys than Shady Salomon jerseys, why? The player. Lets say Athan becomes the next Drew Brees, do you think more people would watch Gopher games? More people would attend Gopher games? If it's not at all about the player, why would you stop watching if our freshman left? Why does Bryce Young have a NIL deal with Dr. Pepper?

You think paying players is Orwellian? LOL. I don't think you've read the book.

Nobody is buying Mulroney jerseys. We buy college jerseys only for the school. It has to have a number on it...so yeah, might as well put the best players' numbers on it. But nobody cares about the players.

I'm amazed that so many can't seem to comprehend this.

And yes, paying players to attend a school IS Orwellian...in the sense that it's so absurd...and that the media repeating propaganda enough can make the sheep believe in literally anything.

 

[bc2211]

Cracks in the armor are really showing now.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Nobody is buying Mulroney jerseys. We buy college jerseys only for the school. It has to have a number on it...so yeah, might as well put the best players' numbers on it. But nobody cares about the players.

I'm amazed that so many can't seem to comprehend this.

And yes, paying players to attend a school IS Orwellian...in the sense that it's so absurd...and that the media repeating propaganda enough can make the sheep believe in literally anything.

Kids get paid to attend school all the time. It's a staple in graduate programs. Also - these players aren't paid to attend to go to school, they are paid to play football. It's just like you know you can be in a band and make money and go to the U.

As far as nobody having Mulroney jerseys. . . lol. You're a pretty big Gopher fan eh? So yeah, people are fans of a team and then they pick the PLAYER. It's the exact same way most people own Vike's jerseys.

Why do people watch games of schools they never attended? Why would I be more likely to watch an Alabama game NOW compared to during the Shula seasons? It's almost like having better players generates viewership.

We get it though, you're the type of person to die on an idiotic wall.

But please answer this question, if no one cares about the players, why would you stop watching if certain players left? You didn't stop when Thiam left? Why would PAyne or Carrington transferring make you stop watching U of MN athletics?

It almost seems like you are choosing to follow the U based upon the players on the team. Weird.

 

[Gophers_4life]

I know plenty of talented young people who when applying to, for example law schools, took very much into account which school was offering them the best aid package. (In addition to the rankings/reputations of the various schools, job prospects of alumni, etc.)

 

[MennoSota]

Check out the Purdue roster ESPN Purdue roster

*as of today, Gopher freshmen have played a total of 949 minutes out of a total 2425 minutes played...representing 39.13% of all possible minutes played....

Purdue's freshmen have played 980 minutes of a total 2425 minutes, which represents 40.41% of the total possible minutes.
- Fletcher Loyer (339 minutes)
- Braden Smith (345 minutes)
- Trey Kaufman-Renn (182 minutes)
- Sam King (3 minutes)
- Brian Waddell (111 minutes)

Also, they are ranked #1 in the country

Purdue has 2 legit true freshmen in Loyer and Smith. Both are Mr Basketball and are outstanding. Kaufman-Renn and Waddell are both redshirt freshmen. King is the equivalent of a walk on.
So, you are attempting to compare oranges to apples here. I do acknowledge the 2 true freshmen Painter brought in are legit ballplayers that make a difference.

Do you think any of Minnesota's past 4 head coaches could have reeled in these 2 Purdue freshmen to play at UMN?

At what point will you stop pouting like a petulant child?

 

[MennoSota]

Oh oh. Jay and Menno hiding....

Give me time, hoser. Unlike you, I have a life

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

Purdue has 2 legit true freshmen in Loyer and Smith. Both are Mr Basketball and are outstanding. Kaufman-Renn and Waddell are both redshirt freshmen. King is the equivalent of a walk on.
So, you are attempting to compare oranges to apples here. I do acknowledge the 2 true freshmen Painter brought in are legit ballplayers that make a difference.

Do you think any of Minnesota's past 4 head coaches could have reeled in these 2 Purdue freshmen to play at UMN?

At what point will you stop pouting like a petulant child?

They are classified as freshmen, plain and simple.

 

[MennoSota]

They are classified as freshmen, plain and simple.

The two are redshirt freshmen, go look at the Purdue roster, plain and simple.
What we don't see is four true freshmen receiving the same or similar minutes to our true freshmen.
What I acknowledge is that Loyer and Smith are excellent freshmen.
I note you don't answer my question. Do you think any of the past four Gopher coaches would have been able to recruit these two true freshmen, Loyer and Smith, to Minnesota?

 

[Crappie]

The two are redshirt freshmen, go look at the Purdue roster, plain and simple.
What we don't see is four true freshmen receiving the same or similar minutes to our true freshmen.
What I acknowledge is that Loyer and Smith are excellent freshmen.
I note you don't answer my question. Do you think any of the past four Gopher coaches would have been able to recruit these two true freshmen, Loyer and Smith, to Minnesota?

Mn is just a very young team with little veteran players.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

The two are redshirt freshmen, go look at the Purdue roster, plain and simple.
What we don't see is four true freshmen receiving the same or similar minutes to our true freshmen.
What I acknowledge is that Loyer and Smith are excellent freshmen.
I note you don't answer my question. Do you think any of the past four Gopher coaches would have been able to recruit these two true freshmen, Loyer and Smith, to Minnesota?

Loyer and Smith? Probably not. But the freshman on this team are once again just an excuse. Pitino's two NCAA tournament teams were young.

2018-19
Coffey - JR
Murphy - SR
Oturu - FR
Kalschuer - FR
McBrayer - SR

2016-17
Mason - JR
Coffey - FR
Murphy - SO
McBrayer - SO
Lynch - JR

Tubby's first NCAA tournament team, which was his 2nd year as a coach here:
Westbrook - JR
Johnson - JR
Nolen - SO
Sampson - FR
Hoffarber - SO
Iverson - FR
Joseph - FR

This years best players are: (I'm not counting the covid year because this is the year they'd be prior to Covid, which Pitino and Tubby didn't have)

Garcia - JR
Cooper - SR
Battle - SR
Payne - FR
Carrington - FR
and Samuels - SR has been starting, which is ridiculous.
Ola-Joseph - FR

This team is older than Pitino and Tubby's first NCAA tournament teams, and about the same as Pitino's last tournament team. It would be fun to even have a conversation about an NCAA tournament team right now but instead we're losing by double digits to everyone ranked higher than 150. That's how bad the the roster and coaching have been.

 

[bga1]

The two are redshirt freshmen, go look at the Purdue roster, plain and simple.
What we don't see is four true freshmen receiving the same or similar minutes to our true freshmen.
What I acknowledge is that Loyer and Smith are excellent freshmen.
I note you don't answer my question. Do you think any of the past four Gopher coaches would have been able to recruit these two true freshmen, Loyer and Smith, to Minnesota?

This is a stupid argument. That said, Arkansas has three freshman starters and of their 6 frosh they play a total of 10 minutes or so more than ours per game.
Pretty solid coach there...

Oh but wait, it gets better.... Musselman, got 5 transfers as well- the whole starting lineup is new for the 11-1 Razorbacks.

Arkansas 2022 Basketball Commits

Arkansas

247sports.com

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

Agree, Cooper is a backup at best. Big Ten play will be tough for him.

Not so much thus far. on the O side. D, that's another story.

After two BIG games, 10/18 FG, 5/7 3pt, 4 Reb, 6.5 Ast, 3 TO, 5/6 FT, 15.5 Pts. Stats don't tell the whole story but at least they show well.

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

The two are redshirt freshmen, go look at the Purdue roster, plain and simple.
What we don't see is four true freshmen receiving the same or similar minutes to our true freshmen.
What I acknowledge is that Loyer and Smith are excellent freshmen.
I note you don't answer my question. Do you think any of the past four Gopher coaches would have been able to recruit these two true freshmen, Loyer and Smith, to Minnesota?

Monsoon recruited rickert and humphries (both McDonald’s all Americans and consensus 5 star recruits)…so I guess I would say yes, but don’t know what that really has to do with anything. I also believe Smith is only a 3 star recruit, so technically many of our coaches can recruit 3 star recruits…(Amir Coffey was more highly rated)

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

This is a stupid argument. That said, Arkansas has three freshman starters and of their 6 frosh they play a total of 10 minutes or so more than ours per game.
Pretty solid coach there...

Oh but wait, it gets better.... Musselman, got 5 transfers as well- the whole starting lineup is new for the 11-1 Razorbacks.

Arkansas 2022 Basketball Commits

Arkansas

247sports.com

MennoSota will move the goal posts again, don’t you worry

 

[MennoSota]

Mn is just a very young team with little veteran players.

Thanks for stating the facts.

 

[MennoSota]

Loyer and Smith? Probably not. But the freshman on this team are once again just an excuse. Pitino's two NCAA tournament teams were young.

2018-19
Coffey - JR
Murphy - SR
Oturu - FR
Kalschuer - FR
McBrayer - SR

2016-17
Mason - JR
Coffey - FR
Murphy - SO
McBrayer - SO
Lynch - JR

Tubby's first NCAA tournament team, which was his 2nd year as a coach here:
Westbrook - JR
Johnson - JR
Nolen - SO
Sampson - FR
Hoffarber - SO
Iverson - FR
Joseph - FR

This years 5 best players are: (I'm not counting the covid year because this is the year they'd be prior to Covid, which Pitino and Tubby didn't have)

Garcia - JR
Cooper - SR
Battle - SR
Payne - FR
Carrington - FR
and Samuels - SR has starting, which is ridiculous.
Ola-Joseph - FR

This team is older than Pitino and Tubby's first NCAA tournament teams, and about the same as Pitino's last tournament team. It would be fun to even have a conversation about an NCAA tournament team right now but instead we're losing by double digits to everyone ranked higher than 150. That's how bad the the roster and coaching have been.

My4U

 

[MennoSota]

This is a stupid argument. That said, Arkansas has three freshman starters and of their 6 frosh they play a total of 10 minutes or so more than ours per game.
Pretty solid coach there...

Oh but wait, it gets better.... Musselman, got 5 transfers as well- the whole starting lineup is new for the 11-1 Razorbacks.

Arkansas 2022 Basketball Commits

Arkansas

247sports.com

Go root for Arkansas and enjoy their freshman instead of whining about the Gophers.

 

[MennoSota]

Monsoon recruited rickert and humphries (both McDonald’s all Americans and consensus 5 star recruits)…so I guess I would say yes, but don’t know what that really has to do with anything. I also believe Smith is only a 3 star recruit, so technically many of our coaches can recruit 3 star recruits…(Amir Coffey was more highly rated)

My4U

 

[MennoSota]

MennoSota will move the goal posts again, don’t you worry

No goal post to move. But, I need a boat to row through your river of tears.

 

[Dakota2]

You don't think some players might just want to play for a winning program? I'm not saying it won't happen here but I don't know if anyone outside of Payne will make any money with a move. In a hypothetical world where this is a transfer portal but no NIL, I think we'd still have to worry about folks leaving. It's really the same reason why the successful programs (pre-NIL) got great players - those players want to play for a winning program.

I'm not disagreeing with you that it would be annoying and it's no shot against Ben that player movement is a concern (it's available now).

As far as people not paying to watch amateur players, yes they do. It happens all the time. Alumni only make up a tiny percentage of the viewership of college sports. I've gone to many games that didn't include MN or anyone from the Big 10. People watch and pay for the Olympics.

People pay to watch amateur players all the time. It's actually less common that they are just paying to follow their school.

The legal issue -- which will never be addressed -- is how can a public university provide an arena, marketing, practice facilities, travel, uniforms, coaches, trainers, tutors and all the rest to professional athletes?

 

[Dakota2]

I know plenty of talented young people who when applying to, for example law schools, took very much into account which school was offering them the best aid package. (In addition to the rankings/reputations of the various schools, job prospects of alumni, etc.)

That's like an athletic scholarship. No problem. But schools are not paying athletes NIL money from university funds. Private parties are paying it.

 

[Bfan]

Athletes are watched by tens of millions. College sports generate billions in revenue.

At least the Big Ten media deal spreads money around among many schools.

I as a consumer see value in that. It has value to me and millions of others. We are free to choose how we the consumers spend our time and money.

I do not expect televised games to be commercial free.

And those huge revenue dollars earned support other sports that are not as sustainable.

Schools make huge money off that. Billions.

The reality is that we live in a new media era. We do not live in the 1800's anymore.

The Big Ten media deal at least spreads the money around so lots of schools get some of that.

What would be the ethics of players getting nothing or only the most famous schools prospering?

Big Ten completes $7B deal with Fox, CBS, NBC

The Big Ten has completed a new seven-year media rights agreement with Fox, CBS and NBC that is set to bring in more than $7 billion to one of the nation's most powerful athletic conferences.

www.espn.com

 

[Holy Man]

I'm not saying our freshmen will transfer. In fact, I'm basing all my opinions on the fact that they'll still be here in 2 years.

Others are saying we need transfers now, because we can't count on our freshmen not being bribed away. I'm just saying that if that's the case, I'm done with college basketball.

But I highly disagree that fans watch college FB & BB because of the players. If they weren't 'students' of the schools, nobody would watch. Nobody watches the NBA G-League...and they're better than the college teams. Nobody wears jerseys of amateur players.

Minor league professional sports generate no loyalty. College sports generate plenty. Count me in that category.

 

[Holy Man]

The first time somebody handed a college athlete cash a hundred or so years ago, universities were fielding professional sports teams. The only reason the word "student" was put in front of "athlete" was so the NCAA could avoid paying workers comp to injured athletes.

It's a business. Always has been. That doesn't mean that the players, coaches, fans, universities shouldn't love it. It's time for the people who are providing the enjoyment to benefit at least somewhat proportionally.

I think you’re super imposing a current reality on history. Colleges were not that sophisticated back then, but it makes a better case for the oppressed athletes narrative. Your assertion that schools make “millions” is flat out false. I haven’t seen the data in a while but the number of d-1 athletic departments that are netting positive cash is minimal. It might be 25 but probably less. The narrative of course is that the athletes are oppressed employees. What gets overlooked and ignored is that very few athletes market value is worth more than their scholarships, and the millions they generate go to fund sports that need a boost from the university. Track, most women’s sports, and a host of others don’t bring in nearly what they cost. I’m not willing to eliminate women’s cross country scholarships to be “fair “ to oppressed football players. I don’t think playing by two sets of rules will benefit anyone.

 

[Bfan]

My view isn't oppressed athletes should get paid. I simply see money as a reality and let's be transparent about it. Athletes getting something out in the open without some high and mightl entitlement bashing would be better than under the table. Society since ancient times values sports. It's the human condition. People like stadiums and athlete stars. I think we need to stop bashing players who get NIL deals or maybe even out in the open stipends from schools. Let's just be honest. But not pro athletes. I'm not saying that.

 

[bga1]

What gets overlooked and ignored is that very few athletes market value is worth more than their scholarships, and the millions they generate go to fund sports that need a boost from the university. Track, most women’s sports, and a host of others don’t bring in nearly what they cost. I’m not willing to eliminate women’s cross country scholarships to be “fair “ to oppressed football players. I don’t think playing by two sets of rules will benefit anyone.

Well said. The idea that they are oppressed is a complete joke. The athletes who are good enough are allowed to showcase their abilities to the pros in a way that a standard accounting major or engineering major would be thrilled with in their fields. Those who are not pro worthy are getting a free education and a chance to be involved in another professional field they may or may not have gotten a shot at- were it not for their God given athleticism.

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

Well said. The idea that they are oppressed is a complete joke. The athletes who are good enough are allowed to showcase their abilities to the pros in a way that a standard accounting major or engineering major would be thrilled with in their fields. Those who are not pro worthy are getting a free education and a chance to be involved in another professional field they may or may not have gotten a shot at- were it not for their God given athleticism.

Well said bga1.

That is the main reason I have watched the Gophers for decades and have endured all the disappointments and mixed in successes. But its not about me. Its about the young men and women who are competing and giving it all to be the best they can be.

I only wish that I was, at my prime, as worthy as the guy at the bottom of the depth chart. They have my highest admiration for all their efforts, both on and off the field. And I will continue to hang in there with them.

Said that, I will be tuned it excited to watch both the football team and the much aligned hoops team this Thursday.