Point Guard

Cooper isn't playing with any veterans.
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Tell me the veterans that came over who are ready, out of the box, for the B1G. Who had P5 experience. I will wait for you to provide the deep experience of this Gopher team whereby they should be beating most other B1G teams. Go ahead. Provide the lineup.
 


Tell me the veterans that came over who are ready, out of the box, for the B1G. Who had P5 experience. I will wait for you to provide the deep experience of this Gopher team whereby they should be beating most other B1G teams. Go ahead. Provide the lineup.
Moving the goalposts again. Stop.
 

Players are getting open shots, they just arenā€™t making enough of them. We continue to be a poor shooting team.
Let's see how many open shots Mn gets, especially from a Cooper assist, on conference. That's the point.
 



Maybe the people around him are just bad? Not much he can do if guys donā€™t make shots.
Could be. Cbj recruited all of them, so I wouldn't think he would recruit so many bad players.
 

He doesn't make anyone around him better.
I also just have no idea what this tangibly means. What specifically does he not do, that a good point guard would do, that would make other players on the team better?

This feels like a catch all ā€œI donā€™t like him cause the offense is bad and Iā€™m gonna blame the point guard cause I have no idea what else to sayā€ line.
 

Cooper has some nice, refined skills. (Not damning him with faint praise.) The problem is that he's slow. It's exacerbated when he's on the floor with Samuels.

As I said after the first game I attended, it's a slow team that has multiple out of shape players. They have some players that have real potential, if they can keep them out of the transfer portal. Pharrel Payne, who is in shape, should not be playing twelve minutes a game. He's going to be really, really good. Samuels shouldn't see the floor. Ever. Cooper is fine. He'll never be great, but he's a B!G player and he's the least of their problems.

I feel bad saying it, but the starting five going forward should be Payne, JOJ, Carrington, Cooper, and Battle. It's a little undersized, but it's the most athletic they've got. Garcia should come off of the bench.
 

Players are getting open shots, they just arenā€™t making enough of them. We continue to be a poor shooting team.
Someone posted some advanced stats that showed we were taking a lot difficult shots as a team relative to most of the ncaa. Canā€™t vouch for the analytics, but they didnā€™t paint a good picture of our offense.

Edit: it was @leib0039 via @GopherWeatherGuy. But I think the analysis was for last year. Not sure about this year.
 
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Cooper has some nice, refined skills. (Not damning him with faint praise.) The problem is that he's slow. It's exacerbated when he's on the floor with Samuels.

As I said after the first game I attended, it's a slow team that has multiple out of shape players. They have some players that have real potential, if they can keep them out of the transfer portal. Pharrel Payne, who is in shape, should not be playing twelve minutes a game. He's going to be really, really good. Samuels shouldn't see the floor. Ever. Cooper is fine. He'll never be great, but he's a B!G player and he's the least of their problems.

I feel bad saying it, but the starting five going forward should be Payne, JOJ, Carrington, Cooper, and Battle. It's a little undersized, but it's the most athletic they've got. Garcia should come off of the bench.
Thatā€™s an interesting point. Maybe the issue is not that Cooper is slow, but that none of our players are particularly fast, and generally the point guard is the one who is. If he was paired with a better shot-creating shooting guard, maybe someone like a Dupree McBrayer, or Payton Willis at shooting guard, rather than samuels and Carrington who are also not really quick penetrating guards, maybe it wouldnā€™t seem like such an issue.

Henley has speed, maybe too much of it. If he can get a bit more control, maybe heā€™s that complement.

Donā€™t know if I agree with Garcia off the bench, but definitely agree that those 6 should be getting the vast majority of minutes right now.
 

Losing is always the point guardā€™s fault. Too much or too little. Too slow or out of control. Canā€™t finish or takes too many shots.

The observable flaw in his game is that his man gets to the basket too easily. That has killed us this year.
Totally agree that his defense has hurt, and it sets a bad tone for the team when your veteran point guard is not a great defender both in terms of skill and effort.

Effort can definitely be taught though, and hoping that Thorson can build the skill at least a little bit.
 

I also just have no idea what this tangibly means. What specifically does he not do, that a good point guard would do, that would make other players on the team better?

This feels like a catch all ā€œI donā€™t like him cause the offense is bad and Iā€™m gonna blame the point guard cause I have no idea what else to sayā€ line.
Watch Ziegler from Tenn. Rewatch some of Mn previous opponents this season and compare to Cooper. Lots of examples if you're willing to actually take a look.

Conference play is around the corner. You may get your answer there. Or maybe not.
 




Moving the goalposts again. Stop.
No goalposts moved. Just pointing out the facts I have always pointed to
At some point you need to stop your whining and take a nap.
 

Can someone please explain to me our current scholarship situation. If I am correct, we are allowed 15 scholarship players by NCAA rules. We currently have 14 players on the roster, so I assume we have 1 open scholarship. Samuels will be gone next year I assume so that will leave 2 open scholarships. We have two players coming in next year so does that mean our scholarships are filled for next year?
I think I just found the answer to my question. We have 14 on the roster but only 13 currently on scholarships as Purcell is preferred walk-on. I assume Samuels will leaving after this season so that will leave 3 scholarships available, two of which are already taken. So there will be one open scholarship to go portal fishing with. Sound right?
 

I think I just found the answer to my question. We have 14 on the roster but only 13 currently on scholarships as Purcell is preferred walk-on. I assume Samuels will leaving after this season so that will leave 3 scholarships available, two of which are already taken. So there will be one open scholarship to go portal fishing with. Sound right?
Yes but you can be almost be assured in this era that at least one current scholarship player will move on. They need to recruit like they have two available.
 

I think I just found the answer to my question. We have 14 on the roster but only 13 currently on scholarships as Purcell is preferred walk-on. I assume Samuels will leaving after this season so that will leave 3 scholarships available, two of which are already taken. So there will be one open scholarship to go portal fishing with. Sound right?
Next year players on scholarship if nothing changes: Cooper, Carrington, Christie, Henley, Ihnen, Fox, JOJ, Betts, Battle, Garcia, Evans, Thompson, and Payne. All 13 filled unless someone with eligibility leaves.
 

Next year players on scholarship if nothing changes: Cooper, Carrington, Christie, Henley, Ihnen, Fox, JOJ, Betts, Battle, Garcia, Evans, Thompson, and Payne. All 13 filled unless someone with eligibility leaves.
You left out Ramberg. Wouldnā€™t that make 14 filled?
 


Watch Ziegler from Tenn. Rewatch some of Mn previous opponents this season and compare to Cooper. Lots of examples if you're willing to actually take a look.

Conference play is around the corner. You may get your answer there. Or maybe not.
So in other words, you donā€™t actually have any examples of things that point guards do that make their teammates better, and youā€™re gonna go with the ā€œgo do your own researchā€ to deflect it.

All you did was list point guards on good teams, as if thatā€™s somehow supposed to show that they ā€œmade their teammates betterā€ rather than just being surrounded by good players.
 

You left out Ramberg. Wouldnā€™t that make 14 filled?
Someone correct me if Iā€™m wrong, but I believe that when a former walk-on is granted a scholarship, it only needs to be granted for 1 year at a time, as opposed to standard freshman scholarships which must be honored for 4 years.
 


So in other words, you donā€™t actually have any examples of things that point guards do that make their teammates better, and youā€™re gonna go with the ā€œgo do your own researchā€ to deflect it.

All you did was list point guards on good teams, as if thatā€™s somehow supposed to show that they ā€œmade their teammates betterā€ rather than just being surrounded by good players.
In addition to the things already pointed out as Cooper shortcomings is our half court offense. While I have not been able to see all the games...the ones I have, we have no offense. Generally, that is a point guards responsibility in most systems. Is that his fault or Ben's? I don't know.
Out of timeouts we look like we are coached...we run something.

Most all offensive possessions other than that are ugly. Turnovers by others is often a point guard putting them in a position they don't have the ability to execute...bad shot, bad passing angle, putting them in a bad spot on the floor for their skills. Battle is a great catch and shoot shooter...how many does he get? He has to force shots to get shots. Does Cooper get Battles man to help defensively and kick it to him? Garcia is making stuff up to score...he has ability...but isn't often put in a favorable position nor receiving the ball in a good place. Our passing angles to feed the post are ridiculously difficult and late or off target with bad timing. How much of this and more is Cooper not being a point guard who gets his teammates the ball in their sweet spots or the Gophers having no idea of offense as a team? I dunno. Love to watch practice or be close enough to know what it is we are trying to do on offense. Cooper gives me no clues. He may have assists but he is not Ricky Rubio like in any way as a passer.

When a point guard can't make free throws it's tough to believe in him running your team. Any close game he's going to have the ball and get fouled.

The games I have seen we are steadier on offense with Samuels in the game.

We have some athletes. We need a point guard who can run...that isn't Cooper or Samuels.
Christie, Betts, Ihnen and Fox are athletes who can run....we need a guard who can push the ball and get some baskets attacking the rim to score enough points to win.
 

Next year players on scholarship if nothing changes: Cooper, Carrington, Christie, Henley, Ihnen, Fox, JOJ, Betts, Battle, Garcia, Evans, Thompson, and Payne. All 13 filled unless someone with eligibility leaves.
I guarantee right now that at least one player with eligibility will leave. Iā€™m sure the probability of any given has to be near 100%, but the probability of picking any particular one correctly is very low, and Iā€™m much too cheap to bet on that.šŸ˜›
 

So in other words, you donā€™t actually have any examples of things that point guards do that make their teammates better, and youā€™re gonna go with the ā€œgo do your own researchā€ to deflect it.

All you did was list point guards on good teams, as if thatā€™s somehow supposed to show that they ā€œmade their teammates betterā€ rather than just being surrounded by good players.
I applaud you for recognizing the pg position. That's where it starts and ends.
 

Samuels looks like he is carrying about 20 extra pounds. Lose that might improve his quickness.
Being quicker always helps. However, he doesn't have the skills to play in the B1G. He's this year's version of Thiam, except Ben is giving him minutes, lots of them.
 

I guarantee right now that at least one player with eligibility will leave. Iā€™m sure the probability of any given has to be near 100%, but the probability of picking any particular one correctly is very low, and Iā€™m much too cheap to bet on that.šŸ˜›
We have to hope that they don't lose Payne and/or JOJ. Those two guys are foundational. I don't gamble either. However, if I did, I'd bet that reps from other schools are in their ears and the conversations include dollars.
 

Being quicker always helps. However, he doesn't have the skills to play in the B1G. He's this year's version of Thiam, except Ben is giving him minutes, lots of them.
Thiam could barely step on the court without turning the ball over and couldn't shoot from outside which was supposed to be a strength. Samuels is much less athletic but takes care of the ball and has been somewhat consistent from 3. I agree he is getting too many minutes. He should be capped around 10 per game.
 

Tell me the veterans that came over who are ready, out of the box, for the B1G. Who had P5 experience. I will wait for you to provide the deep experience of this Gopher team whereby they should be beating most other B1G teams. Go ahead. Provide the lineup.
Garcia is a veteran at this point. He was part of an NCAA title team for half a season (that counts for something) + he is like 21.5 years old. Battle is veteran. Cooper and Samuels have multiple seasons of experience.

Youā€™re keep moving your definition of veteran. Next it will be all big ten as a requirementā€¦(which Battle was a pre-season all conference selection).

For you definition (P5 veteran) maybe those players saw through the grit vision and knew it was really a ā€œshitā€ vision.. and didnā€™t want to be part of a bottom program. The gophers havenā€™t played an exciting brand of basketball sense Ben took over. As some posters have stated, the gophers (since CBJ took over) have had a terrible offense and defense (horrendous)ā€¦can anyone answer what style we play?
 

Minnesota had 14 assists to Purdue's 22 assists.

Minnesota had 17 assists to Michigan's 18 assists.

Minnesota had 12 assists to Mississippi State's 16.

Minnesota had 10 assists to UNLV's 12.

Minnesota had 12 assists to DePaul's 15.

That's 22% less for Minnesota.
 




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