Point Guard

[MNJay]

We have to hope that they don't lose Payne and/or JOJ. Those two guys are foundational. I don't gamble either. However, if I did, I'd bet that reps from other schools are in their ears and the conversations include dollars.

I'm basing all my opinions (building for the future, etc.) on this not happening.

If our freshmen are bribed away by other teams...I will be done with college basketball. I will quit watching, I will say "goodbye" on here, and that will be the end of it.

 

[Mountaineer Gopher]

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that when a former walk-on is granted a scholarship, it only needs to be granted for 1 year at a time, as opposed to standard freshman scholarships which must be honored for 4 years.

Myth # 3: Athletic Scholarships are guaranteed for 4 years. Truth: They are a one year deal. With the exception of major conferences (Power 5), the majority of athletic scholarships are guaranteed only for one year.

 

[jamiche]

I'm basing all my opinions (building for the future, etc.) on this not happening.

If our freshmen are bribed away by other teams...I will be done with college basketball. I will quit watching, I will say "goodbye" on here, and that will be the end of it.

You might want to find another interest. These guys don't belong to us and they have every right to make money playing hoops. The universities have been making millions off of the players for decades. I'm happy the players are finally getting paid something.

 

[jblass]

You might want to find another interest. These guys don't belong to us and they have every right to make money playing hoops. The universities have been making millions off of the players for decades. I'm happy the players are finally getting paid something.

You may be right but I would be surprised if the U of M was making millions, especially after they had to cut some sports. Also, I guess a free college education is not worth that much anymore.

 

[sal]

Cooper has some nice, refined skills. (Not damning him with faint praise.) The problem is that he's slow. It's exacerbated when he's on the floor with Samuels.

As I said after the first game I attended, it's a slow team that has multiple out of shape players. They have some players that have real potential, if they can keep them out of the transfer portal. Pharrel Payne, who is in shape, should not be playing twelve minutes a game. He's going to be really, really good. Samuels shouldn't see the floor. Ever. Cooper is fine. He'll never be great, but he's a B!G player and he's the least of their problems.

I feel bad saying it, but the starting five going forward should be Payne, JOJ, Carrington, Cooper, and Battle. It's a little undersized, but it's the most athletic they've got. Garcia should come off of the bench.

No way should Garcia come off the bench, he’s our most skilled offensive player, he rebounds and plays really hard, works hard. I would like to think that can be infectious. Absolutely needs 30+ minutes a game.

 

[skyman31]

I applaud you for recognizing the pg position. That's where it starts and ends.

There were two possible ways to respond to my post there: the way 60’s Guy did, with well-thought out points and valid critiques of Cooper, along with specific areas our offense struggles in. Those types of posts are why I enjoy this website.

And then there’s the way you did, which makes me never want to post here again.

 

[Holy Man]

We have to hope that they don't lose Payne and/or JOJ. Those two guys are foundational. I don't gamble either. However, if I did, I'd bet that reps from other schools are in their ears and the conversations include dollars.

Agree absolutely. It will test the relationship Ben has with players, and the character piece that seems to be so important to him.

 

[MNJay]

You might want to find another interest. These guys don't belong to us and they have every right to make money playing hoops. The universities have been making millions off of the players for decades. I'm happy the players are finally getting paid something.

Yes, I will find another interest if our freshmen are bribed away.

But no, fans don't pay to watch amateur players. Fans pay to watch their SCHOOL TEAM.

 

[jamiche]

Yes, I will find another interest if our freshmen are bribed away.

But no, fans don't pay to watch amateur players. Fans pay to watch their SCHOOL TEAM.

It's not bribery. It's fair market compensation. The starting QB for the Georgia Bulldogs makes over $1M per year in NIL money, and he should. About 100K people show up to watch him play every game and millions of people watch him on TV. He's 95% a football player and 5% a student. He doesn't have time to be a real student anyway. At least now the arrangement is a little more honest.

Fans pay to watch their school teams now the way they pay to watch the Vikings and the Timberwolves and that's the way it should be.

 

[Bfan]

People need to be patient. Give coach his three-year rebuild plan time to work.

Freshman guard Braeden Carrington won Minnesota's Mr. Basketball -- the best player in the state of Minnesota. Minnesota landed him as a recruit! Star Tribune named Carrington to to the All Metro First Team.

A freshman can't be a sophomore or junior. Show me the math where that is possible. Be patient. Show me where freshman equals a sophomore or junior. This takes some times.

Is guard a problem now? Yes.

Did Coach Johnson also sign an elite center coming in next year? Yes.

Will this team look better in a year from now?

Is it possible to rebuild a team overnight? Maybe if you're Duke.

Yes the team has issues and yes there is a plan.

Park Center's Braeden Carrington Wins Mr. Basketball - CCX Media

Park Center's Braeden Carrington was named Minnesota's Mr. Basketball at a ceremony at the school Tuesday.

ccxmedia.org

Meet the Star Tribune 2021-22 All-Metro teams

The official home of Minnesota boys' high school basketball.

www.mnbasketballhub.com

 

[Bfan]

People need to be patient. Give coach his three-year rebuild plan time to work.

Freshman guard Braeden Carrington won Minnesota's Mr. Basketball -- the best player in the state of Minnesota. Minnesota landed him as a recruit! Star Tribune named Carrington to to the All Metro First Team.

A freshman can't be a sophomore or junior. Show me the math where that is possible. Be patient. Show me where freshman equals a sophomore or junior. This takes some times.

The freshman is already showing us what the future looks like!

Braeden Carrington’s career-high 20 points helps Gophers end five-game losing skid

The Gophers men’s basketball team hadn’t scored a bucket in more than six first-half minutes against Arkansas-Pine Bluff on Wednesday, and the U’s five-game losing streak was looming inside Williams Arena. Then Braeden Carrington made it look like “NBA Jam.” The freshman from Park Center High...

sports.yahoo.com

 

[MennoSota]

Garcia is a veteran at this point. He was part of an NCAA title team for half a season (that counts for something) + he is like 21.5 years old. Battle is veteran. Cooper and Samuels have multiple seasons of experience.

You’re keep moving your definition of veteran. Next it will be all big ten as a requirement…(which Battle was a pre-season all conference selection).

For you definition (P5 veteran) maybe those players saw through the grit vision and knew it was really a “shit” vision.. and didn’t want to be part of a bottom program. The gophers haven’t played an exciting brand of basketball sense Ben took over. As some posters have stated, the gophers (since CBJ took over) have had a terrible offense and defense (horrendous)…can anyone answer what style we play?

He certainly is a veteran, who has been in 2 different programs before joining the Gophers this season. These are facts.
Samuels and Cooper are veterans of mid-major teams in their 1st year here at UMN. These are facts.
Jameson Battle is in his 2nd year here at Minnesota and he is playing with all other players who are in their 1st year here at Minnesota. These are facts.

Now, your task is to show me a compatible team in the B1G or any other P6 program. These are the teams you can use to compare our experience against.

The learning curve is higher for this squad than most others. However, the ceiling is likely higher for this squad as well. Therefore, I am watching for progress in climbing this steep curve and reaching the ceiling. Frankly, we won't hit the ceiling this year, in my opinion. I actually don't think these kids hit the ceiling for a couple years, but the slope will not be as steep by the end of this season.

Now, you and your petulant siblings won't acknowledge this. You are like the girl in Willie Wonka who wanted her candy right now. No one liked that girl and they cheered when she was gone. So, stop acting like her.

 

[MNJay]

It's not bribery. It's fair market compensation. The starting QB for the Georgia Bulldogs makes over $1M per year in NIL money, and he should. About 100K people show up to watch him play every game and millions of people watch him on TV. He's 95% a football player and 5% a student. He doesn't have time to be a real student anyway. At least now the arrangement is a little more honest.

Fans pay to watch their school teams now the way they pay to watch the Vikings and the Timberwolves and that's the way it should be.

Paying players to attend a school is an absolute joke. Straight out of the Twilight Zone or 1984.

But everyone is so brainwashed by the smiling faces in suits-&-ties on television that they believe literally anything their told.

 

[Bfan]

Paying players to attend a school is an absolute joke. Straight out of the Twilight Zone or 1984.

But everyone is so brainwashed by the smiling faces in suits-&-ties on television that they believe literally anything their told.

There are two economoc views and then a spectrum between it.

First consumers are free to spend their money as they want without government telling us what clothes to wear or that we have to drive junk government issued cars or black and white TVs. Consumers vote with their dollars. We choose what phone to use and what tickets to buy.

Consumers love to spend on sports. Right or wrong Consumers will pay a lot for sports. Many sports have long waiting lists for season tickets at sky high prices.

Some schools make a fortune off sports and players received little.

That is the first view.

The second view is that society has a right to ban the purchase of some things. I will leave it to others to argue what that should be. Ban paying players so the fans at some schools can't outbid? A salary cap?

A problem with banning things is that the economic facts do not go away, they go underground. Money changes hands in secret. The laws of supply and demand do not go away. There is value to being out in the open.

I am not giving an opinion. I am saying there are realities and trade offs.

This would not be an issue if huge amounts of money were not involved.

 

[Crappie]

There were two possible ways to respond to my post there: the way 60’s Guy did, with well-thought out points and valid critiques of Cooper, along with specific areas our offense struggles in. Those types of posts are why I enjoy this website.

And then there’s the way you did, which makes me never want to post here again.

Well, you acted as if pg skills are a foreign concept to you. A quick look in the mirror will do wonders.

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

He certainly is a veteran, who has been in 2 different programs before joining the Gophers this season. These are facts.
Samuels and Cooper are veterans of mid-major teams in their 1st year here at UMN. These are facts.
Jameson Battle is in his 2nd year here at Minnesota and he is playing with all other players who are in their 1st year here at Minnesota. These are facts.

Now, your task is to show me a compatible team in the B1G or any other P6 program. These are the teams you can use to compare our experience against.

The learning curve is higher for this squad than most others. However, the ceiling is likely higher for this squad as well. Therefore, I am watching for progress in climbing this steep curve and reaching the ceiling. Frankly, we won't hit the ceiling this year, in my opinion. I actually don't think these kids hit the ceiling for a couple years, but the slope will not be as steep by the end of this season.

Now, you and your petulant siblings won't acknowledge this. You are like the girl in Willie Wonka who wanted her candy right now. No one liked that girl and they cheered when she was gone. So, stop acting like her.

Mississippi State and I’ll raise you a coach who is in year 1

 

[jamiche]

Paying players to attend a school is an absolute joke. Straight out of the Twilight Zone or 1984.

But everyone is so brainwashed by the smiling faces in suits-&-ties on television that they believe literally anything their told.

Players have been paid to attend school since well before 1984 and it's not out of the Twilight Zone. At least now the "deal" is becoming less one sided. Why should coaches make millions of dollars a year and universities make tens of millions of dollars a year while players perform for the love of the game and the love of the university?

In terms of the "free" education, when you spend 50-60 hours a week on your sport in season and 20-40 hours a week on your sport during the off season, when do you have the time for a full course load of real classes?

 

[MennoSota]

Mississippi State and I’ll raise you a coach who is in year 1

Share the roster and the number of true freshmen playing.
Here's the roster and year in college. Tell me how many true freshmen are on the MS ST roster. I will wait.
NO NAME POS MPG HT WT CLASS HOMETOWN
#0 D.J. Jeffries F 30.1 6'-7" 225 SR Olive Branch, MS
#1 Tolu Smith F 26.4 6'-11" 245 SR Bay Saint Louis, MS
#2 Jamel Horton Jr. G 13.3 6'-3" 200 SR Queens, NY
#3 Shakeel Moore G 20.3 6'-1" 190 JR Greensboro, NC
#4 Cameron Matthews G 23.2 6'-7" 225 JR Olive Branch, MS
#5 Kimani Hamilton F 8.0 6'-7" 215 FR Clinton, MS
#10 Dashawn Davis G 25.2 6'-2" 195 SR Bronx, NY
#11 Eric Reed Jr. G 21.2 6'-2" 200 SR Baton Rouge, LA
#12 KeShawn Murphy F 10.0 6'-10" 235 FR Birmingham, AL
#13 Will McNair Jr. F 13.1 6'-11" 265 SR Philadelphia, PA
#14 Tyler Stevenson F 13.5 6'-8" 220 SR Columbus, MS
#15 Justin Rumph G 1.2 6'-5" 225 SR Birmingham, AL
#21 Martavious Russell G 7.5 6'-2" 185 FR Coker, AL
#24 Tyler Brumfield G - 6'-2" 180 SO Los Angeles, CA
#25 Isaac Stansbury G 1.4 6'-1" 170 SR Bowling Green, KY
#30 Shawn Jones Jr. G 12.5 6'-5" 200 FR

 

[MNJay]

There are two economoc views and then a spectrum between it.

First consumers are free to spend their money as they want without government telling us what clothes to wear or that we have to drive junk government issued cars or black and white TVs. Consumers vote with their dollars. We choose what phone to use and what tickets to buy.

Consumers love to spend on sports. Right or wrong Consumers will pay a lot for sports. Many sports have long waiting lists for season tickets at sky high prices.

Some schools make a fortune off sports and players received little.

That is the first view.

The second view is that society has a right to ban the purchase of some things. I will leave it to others to argue what that should be. Ban paying players so the fans at some schools can't outbid? A salary cap?

A problem with banning things is that the economic facts do not go away, they go underground. Money changes hands in secret. The laws of supply and demand do not go away. There is value to being out in the open.

I am not giving an opinion. I am saying there are realities and trade offs.

This would not be an issue if huge amounts of money were not involved.

I generally come down on the side that it's a free country.

But a University shouldn't be running a professional sports team. Or if they do, they shouldn't be allowed to use the University logos or call the players 'students'.

It's no different than students buying diplomas. Or Universities giving diplomas out to whoever they feel like.

 

[jamiche]

I generally come down on the side that it's a free country.

But a University shouldn't be running a professional sports team. Or if they do, they shouldn't be allowed to use the University logos or call the players 'students'.

It's no different than students buying diplomas. Or Universities giving diplomas out to whoever they feel like.

The first time somebody handed a college athlete cash a hundred or so years ago, universities were fielding professional sports teams. The only reason the word "student" was put in front of "athlete" was so the NCAA could avoid paying workers comp to injured athletes.

It's a business. Always has been. That doesn't mean that the players, coaches, fans, universities shouldn't love it. It's time for the people who are providing the enjoyment to benefit at least somewhat proportionally.

 

[roadrunner]

Talon Cooper is a decent backup PG, IMHO. His stats against the weak non-conference are telling.
Averaging 35 MIN (team high) he is at 9.9 PPG and 51% FT. That will not lead to success in high school. Ironically, his 43.5% FG and whopping 52.9% 3PT shooting stand out, suggesting he should shoot A LOT more.
I guess we will see his true ability as BigTen play commences.

 

[GopherBlood777]

Talon Cooper is a decent backup PG, IMHO. His stats against the weak non-conference are telling.
Averaging 35 MIN (team high) he is at 9.9 PPG and 51% FT. That will not lead to success in high school. Ironically, his 43.5% FG and whopping 52.9% 3PT shooting stand out, suggesting he should shoot A LOT more.
I guess we will see his true ability as BigTen play commences.

I feel like his high percentage from 3 is due to him being smart with his shots. He doesn't typically take it if it's not there, so when he does take a 3 it's an open look. Still very impressive at 50% +, but if he started shooting more his percentages would probably go down a lot further. 43.5% from the field but over 50% from 3, he is struggling to score consistently inside the arc as it is. His ideal role is just feeding our scorers and padding assists, taking open shots when they present themselves.

 

[Crappie]

I feel like his high percentage from 3 is due to him being smart with his shots. He doesn't typically take it if it's not there, so when he does take a 3 it's an open look. Still very impressive at 50% +, but if he started shooting more his percentages would probably go down a lot further. 43.5% from the field but over 50% from 3, he is struggling to score consistently inside the arc as it is. His ideal role is just feeding our scorers and padding assists, taking open shots when they present themselves.

I am thinking the going for Cooper is about to get very tough.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Yes, I will find another interest if our freshmen are bribed away.

But no, fans don't pay to watch amateur players. Fans pay to watch their SCHOOL TEAM.

You don't think some players might just want to play for a winning program? I'm not saying it won't happen here but I don't know if anyone outside of Payne will make any money with a move. In a hypothetical world where this is a transfer portal but no NIL, I think we'd still have to worry about folks leaving. It's really the same reason why the successful programs (pre-NIL) got great players - those players want to play for a winning program.

I'm not disagreeing with you that it would be annoying and it's no shot against Ben that player movement is a concern (it's available now).

As far as people not paying to watch amateur players, yes they do. It happens all the time. Alumni only make up a tiny percentage of the viewership of college sports. I've gone to many games that didn't include MN or anyone from the Big 10. People watch and pay for the Olympics.

People pay to watch amateur players all the time. It's actually less common that they are just paying to follow their school.

 

[TD12]

I am thinking the going for Cooper is about to get very tough.

Agree, Cooper is a backup at best. Big Ten play will be tough for him.

 

[MNJay]

The first time somebody handed a college athlete cash a hundred or so years ago, universities were fielding professional sports teams. The only reason the word "student" was put in front of "athlete" was so the NCAA could avoid paying workers comp to injured athletes.

It's a business. Always has been. That doesn't mean that the players, coaches, fans, universities shouldn't love it. It's time for the people who are providing the enjoyment to benefit at least somewhat proportionally.

We've never had our good players bribed away by other teams before. If that's how it is now, I will quit watching.

I highly disagree that the fans should love this. If we were smart...even now we'd spend more time in the gym ourselves rather than watching others do it.

 

[MNJay]

You don't think some players might just want to play for a winning program? I'm not saying it won't happen here but I don't know if anyone outside of Payne will make any money with a move. In a hypothetical world where this is a transfer portal but no NIL, I think we'd still have to worry about folks leaving. It's really the same reason why the successful programs (pre-NIL) got great players - those players want to play for a winning program.

I'm not disagreeing with you that it would be annoying and it's no shot against Ben that player movement is a concern (it's available now).

As far as people not paying to watch amateur players, yes they do. It happens all the time. Alumni only make up a tiny percentage of the viewership of college sports. I've gone to many games that didn't include MN or anyone from the Big 10. People watch and pay for the Olympics.

People pay to watch amateur players all the time. It's actually less common that they are just paying to follow their school.

I'm not saying our freshmen will transfer. In fact, I'm basing all my opinions on the fact that they'll still be here in 2 years.

Others are saying we need transfers now, because we can't count on our freshmen not being bribed away. I'm just saying that if that's the case, I'm done with college basketball.

But I highly disagree that fans watch college FB & BB because of the players. If they weren't 'students' of the schools, nobody would watch. Nobody watches the NBA G-League...and they're better than the college teams. Nobody wears jerseys of amateur players.

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

Share the roster and the number of true freshmen playing.
Here's the roster and year in college. Tell me how many true freshmen are on the MS ST roster. I will wait.
NO NAME POS MPG HT WT CLASS HOMETOWN
#0 D.J. Jeffries F 30.1 6'-7" 225 SR Olive Branch, MS
#1 Tolu Smith F 26.4 6'-11" 245 SR Bay Saint Louis, MS
#2 Jamel Horton Jr. G 13.3 6'-3" 200 SR Queens, NY
#3 Shakeel Moore G 20.3 6'-1" 190 JR Greensboro, NC
#4 Cameron Matthews G 23.2 6'-7" 225 JR Olive Branch, MS
#5 Kimani Hamilton F 8.0 6'-7" 215 FR Clinton, MS
#10 Dashawn Davis G 25.2 6'-2" 195 SR Bronx, NY
#11 Eric Reed Jr. G 21.2 6'-2" 200 SR Baton Rouge, LA
#12 KeShawn Murphy F 10.0 6'-10" 235 FR Birmingham, AL
#13 Will McNair Jr. F 13.1 6'-11" 265 SR Philadelphia, PA
#14 Tyler Stevenson F 13.5 6'-8" 220 SR Columbus, MS
#15 Justin Rumph G 1.2 6'-5" 225 SR Birmingham, AL
#21 Martavious Russell G 7.5 6'-2" 185 FR Coker, AL
#24 Tyler Brumfield G - 6'-2" 180 SO Los Angeles, CA
#25 Isaac Stansbury G 1.4 6'-1" 170 SR Bowling Green, KY
#30 Shawn Jones Jr. G 12.5 6'-5" 200 FR

Check out the Purdue roster ESPN Purdue roster

*as of today, Gopher freshmen have played a total of 949 minutes out of a total 2425 minutes played...representing 39.13% of all possible minutes played....

Purdue's freshmen have played 980 minutes of a total 2425 minutes, which represents 40.41% of the total possible minutes.
- Fletcher Loyer (339 minutes)
- Braden Smith (345 minutes)
- Trey Kaufman-Renn (182 minutes)
- Sam King (3 minutes)
- Brian Waddell (111 minutes)

Also, they are ranked #1 in the country

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I'm not saying our freshmen will transfer. In fact, I'm basing all my opinions on the fact that they'll still be here in 2 years.

Others are saying we need transfers now, because we can't count on our freshmen not being bribed away. I'm just saying that if that's the case, I'm done with college basketball.

But I highly disagree that fans watch college FB & BB because of the players. If they weren't 'students' of the schools, nobody would watch. Nobody watches the NBA G-League...and they're better than the college teams. Nobody wears jerseys of amateur players.

I'm not saying they will transfer either, I'm just saying that if they did it wouldn't necessarily be because they were bribed.

Of course they watch because of the players. It's a combination of the schools and the players but to argue that people aren't watching college football or basketball because of the players is crazy.

It's like any other sport - the interest comes from the team + players. I've seen way more Maroney jerseys than Shady Salomon jerseys, why? The player. Lets say Athan becomes the next Drew Brees, do you think more people would watch Gopher games? More people would attend Gopher games? If it's not at all about the player, why would you stop watching if our freshman left? Why does Bryce Young have a NIL deal with Dr. Pepper?

 

[BarnBurner]

Check out the Purdue roster ESPN Purdue roster

*as of today, Gopher freshmen have played a total of 949 minutes out of a total 2425 minutes played...representing 39.13% of all possible minutes played....

Purdue's freshmen have played 980 minutes of a total 2425 minutes, which represents 40.41% of the total possible minutes.
- Fletcher Loyer (339 minutes)
- Braden Smith (345 minutes)
- Trey Kaufman-Renn (182 minutes)
- Sam King (3 minutes)
- Brian Waddell (111 minutes)

Also, they are ranked #1 in the country

Oh oh. Jay and Menno hiding....