Pete Rose dead at age 83

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Ope3 said:
On the opposite side, Ichiro also had 7 games in which he had at 5 hits.

If he had debuted in MLB at age 20 or 21 instead of 27, I think he would have flown by the Hit King.

This will be Ichiro's first year on the HoF ballot. His inclusion should be unanimous.
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Crazy thing is he managed to still play 19 years in the MLB.
 


Another interesting thing looking back at Rchiro's numbers, he won MVP his rookie year in 2001 where he probably should have finished 3rd or 4th, but in his best season 2004 where he probably should have won MVP, he finished just 7th in the voting.

The other guy who had a good argument to win MVP in 2004 was Johan Santana.
 


fan of Ray Williams said:
4 for Rodney "Choo Choo" Carew.
He was born on a train? Correct?
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I would think anytime Rodney would get to 0-3 he would probably try drag a bunt down the line.

Yes, that is the legend (in Panama).
 


Ope3 said:
I would think anytime Rodney would get to 0-3 he would probably try drag a bunt down the line.

Yes, that is the legend (in Panama).
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Speaking of infield hits, 694 for Suzuki, or it's estimated. That in itself is a great career for some player.
 



Former Big Red Machine teammate Johnny Bench:

 





Ope3 said:
Former Big Red Machine teammate Johnny Bench:

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HBO released a 4-part doc on Rose this summer. Didn't pull many punches and most of the bad stuff is talked about extensively. I got the feeling that he and Johnny Bench absolutely hated one another and were not on good terms at any point. Maybe I just read the situation wrong.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
HBO released a 4-part doc on Rose this summer. Didn't pull many punches and most of the bad stuff is talked about extensively. I got the feeling that he and Johnny Bench absolutely hated one another and were not on good terms at any point. Maybe I just read the situation wrong.
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You can tell how much Bench was just saddened by the whole situation.

According to Rose, the seemed to bury the hatchet and were on good terms. This is from 9 years ago:


Rose is definitely right about Bench being the best catcher of All Time.
 



Ope3 said:
You can tell how much Bench was just saddened by the whole situation.

According to Rose, the seemed to bury the hatchet and were on good terms. This is from 9 years ago:


Rose is definitely right about Bench being the best catcher of All Time.
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And for that matter there's really not even much debate, right? Hard to compare Josh Gibson of course, but him, Pudge, Gary Carter and Carlton Fisk are probably the only others in his weight class.

I do think, however biased, a fully healthy Joe Mauer would have been able to challenge for that title, but I guess we can only evaluate on what actually happened.
 

Gophers1992 said:
And for that matter there's really not even much debate, right? Hard to compare Josh Gibson of course, but him, Pudge, Gary Carter and Carlton Fisk are probably the only others in his weight class.

I do think, however biased, a fully healthy Joe Mauer would have been able to challenge for that title, but I guess we can only evaluate on what actually happened.
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Have to have Yogi in there too, and he might have been closer but he had some time in LF.

Mauer with another half dozen years behind the plate without injuries, sure he could have been in the discussion.
 


Pete Rose deserves to be banned. He gambled on games he had some control on the outcomes of. The promotion of gambling on today's games would make that an even bigger offense, not justify it.

All of the steroid guys should be in. Everyone was doing it at that time, that was just that phase of baseball. Drug use was rampant in other eras of baseball, yet that doesn't prevent those guys from getting inducted.

All of the steroid guys were elite, HOF players without steroids.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
All of the steroid guys were elite, HOF players without steroids.
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That's just flat out false. McGwire, Sosa & Palmiero don't even get a sniff of Cooperstown without the juice or clear.

Clemons likely hadn't done enough either, based solely on his Red Sox tenure. His resurgence in Toronto was fueled by something extra special.
 

Ope3 said:
That's just flat out false. McGwire, Sosa & Palmiero don't even get a sniff of Cooperstown without the juice or clear.

Clemons likely hadn't done enough either, based solely on his Red Sox tenure. His resurgence in Toronto was fueled by something extra special.
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Totally disagree. Steroids don't help your eye hand coordination, ability to make contact with the ball, or the ability to hit locations and throw different pitches.

Like I mentioned, more guys were on steroids than not during that era. It wasn't just the HOF'ers, it's just the way it was. You can't take any average minor leaguer, pump them with steroids, and suddenly they are now superstars.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Totally disagree. Steroids don't help your eye hand coordination, ability to make contact with the ball, or the ability to hit locations and throw different pitches.

Like I mentioned, more guys were on steroids than not during that era. It wasn't just the HOF'ers, it's just the way it was. You can't take any average minor leaguer, pump them with steroids, and suddenly they are now superstars.
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They help you hit the ball further. That resulted in just flat out silly HR totals, to not acknowledge that their stats were impacted artificially is unbelievable denial.

The "majority" of players were doing it argument, doesn't change the fact that none of the players I mentioned would have accumulated statistics to merit enshrinement into Cooperstown, which is what you originally asserted.
 
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Gophers1992 said:
And for that matter there's really not even much debate, right? Hard to compare Josh Gibson of course, but him, Pudge, Gary Carter and Carlton Fisk are probably the only others in his weight class.

I do think, however biased, a fully healthy Joe Mauer would have been able to challenge for that title, but I guess we can only evaluate on what actually happened.
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Mel Ott! Oh I left out Thurman Munson. Many old timers in Milwaukee swear they were at the rumble in july a few days prior to his death.
 
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Spaulding!No! said:
Mel Ott! Oh I left out Thurman Munson. Many old timers in Milwaukee swear they were at the rumble in july a few days prior to his death.
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Mel Ott was a fantastic player, but never played Catcher during his MLB career.

Thurman Munson deserves inclusion in the HoF, in my opinion.
 

Gophers1992 said:
And for that matter there's really not even much debate, right? Hard to compare Josh Gibson of course, but him, Pudge, Gary Carter and Carlton Fisk are probably the only others in his weight class.

I do think, however biased, a fully healthy Joe Mauer would have been able to challenge for that title, but I guess we can only evaluate on what actually happened.
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Ope3 said:
Have to have Yogi in there too, and he might have been closer but he had some time in LF.

Mauer with another half dozen years behind the plate without injuries, sure he could have been in the discussion.
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Maybe Piazza in the mix? Least offensively.
 

I confused Mel ott with Jimmie Foxx. I try to remember the old catchers I used in that sports illustrated baseballl game.
 




fan of Ray Williams said:
Oh, ok. I only watched the Johnny Bench video.
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In the video Rose said there might be a catcher or two better than Bench defensively, ie Ivan Rodriguez. Piazza was probably a better hitter, but combined he didn't think there was even a close 2nd to Johnny.

Berra was probably the next best, in his opinion.
 


Spaulding!No! said:
Mel Ott! Oh I left out Thurman Munson. Many old timers in Milwaukee swear they were at the rumble in july a few days prior to his death.
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No one remembers Roy Campanella! Was still going strong before his accident.
 

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