PAC 12 Dissolution

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So much for Bill Walton's "Conference of Champions."
 


denguegopher said:
So much for Bill Walton's "Conference of Champions."
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Well of the 4 left they probably have the most national championships per institution if any conference

And it probably isn’t close.
That ratio keeps getting better if wazzu and Oregon state join the mountain west
 

Big10
SEC
Big12
Mountain West now about to be the 4th best conference....once ACC picked apart....
 


DCinOK said:
How can anyone seriously think that Easy Transfer/NIL/conference realignment is good for college football?! For college sports, in general?! I'm a proud Capitalist, but this nonsense has gone way too far.
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So you are a proud capitalist if there are certain restrictions imposed to keep things beneficial for the populace? Because that's what you're asking for.

I hate to break it to you, but this is what unfettered capitalism is. Capitalism doesn't care what good for people, it only cares about what makes more money.
 

swede2 said:
Can we quit pretending that academics have any part of college athletics anymore?
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University presidents/chancellors still have a say in adding schools. Until that changes, academics will be a large consideration for any conference (who stand to make money off of academic research like the B1G) of the process of accepting a school.
 

Taji34 said:
University presidents/chancellors still have a say in adding schools. Until that changes, academics will be a large consideration for any conference (who stand to make money off of academic research like the B1G) of the process of accepting a school.
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The only people that have a say are the tv companies and the biggest donars.
 





Xerxes_ said:
I think it was a fear based move by the B1G. They didn't add Oregon & Washington because they wanted to as much as they added them because they didn't want them joining the Big 12 or SEC. If they really wanted them, they would have invited them when they brought in USC and UCLA.

The Big 12 is becoming a national conference (albeit with lesser quality programs) stretching from Utah to the mid Atlantic. I think the B1G wanted to limit this.

I don't think the SEC gives a shit outside of their own region. Which is where the B1G made a mistake. Had O&W joined the Big 12 the B1G could have still taken them if needed later.

This addition gives the B1G the northern west coast, southern west coast, & northern east coast. I believe FSU is their next target so the B1G footprint will crisscross the country.

I do believe the move really hurts programs like Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, & Michigan State. Their place on the B1G hierarchy is at stake here.
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Out of fear? Really? Please.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Out of fear? Really? Please.
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If the B1G really wanted them they would have taken them 12 months ago and made them full share members like USC & UCLA. They didn't. It sounds like they didn't even consider it after vetting them.

Every B1G school took a pay cut to take those 2. There is only one reason to make that kind of choice. They wanted to keep them away from others.

Those 2 schools were on board a sinking ship, waiting on a Big 12 liferaft that would have paid them peanuts and kept them at bay nationally. Now they are in the premier conference. No way mid-tier programs like Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, MSU wanted these programs to be par financially with them.
 

Xerxes_ said:
If the B1G really wanted them they would have taken them 12 months ago and made them full share members like USC & UCLA. They didn't. It sounds like they didn't even consider it after vetting them.

Every B1G school took a pay cut to take those 2. There is only one reason to make that kind of choice. They wanted to keep them away from others.

Those 2 schools were on board a sinking ship, waiting on a Big 12 liferaft that would have paid them peanuts and kept them at bay nationally. Now they are in the premier conference. No way mid-tier programs like Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, MSU wanted these programs to be par financially with them.
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You're wrong about almost everything, but there is a little truth somewhere in there.

It's probably best to stop.
 



TruthSeeker said:
You're wrong about almost everything, but there is a little truth somewhere in there.

It's probably best to stop.
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Enlighten me then.

Why didn't the B1G take Washington & Oregon a year ago?

Do you you think if the Pac 12 would have decided to stay together Friday morning that the B1G would have pressed the issue and offered more to get them to jump ship?
 

Taji34 said:
So you are a proud capitalist if there are certain restrictions imposed to keep things beneficial for the populace? Because that's what you're asking for.

I hate to break it to you, but this is what unfettered capitalism is. Capitalism doesn't care what good for people, it only cares about what makes more money.
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Incorrect. Capitalism only cares about use of capital it is indifferent on profits or society.
 

Panthadad2 said:
For whatever teams remain in the Pac12, it would be smart to retain the Pac12 name and merge with other Western teams in the MWC etc. The name still has branding power. Sort of like what happened with the Big East.
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There is only four left. I agree the idea has merit. But to execute it would require a leader much, much greater than what they have at the top right now.
 


So_Money said:
Incorrect. Capitalism only cares about use of capital it is indifferent on profits or society.
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I'm going with the IMF definition (and pretty much any business school or economic department) of capitalism:

Capitalism is often thought of as an economic system in which private actors own and control property in accord with their interests, and demand and supply freely set prices in markets in a way that can serve the best interests of society.

The essential feature of capitalism is the motive to make a profit.
 

PMWinSTP said:
I'm going with the IMF definition (and pretty much any business school or economic department) of capitalism:

Capitalism is often thought of as an economic system in which private actors own and control property in accord with their interests, and demand and supply freely set prices in markets in a way that can serve the best interests of society.

The essential feature of capitalism is the motive to make a profit.
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Capitalism doesn't have a motive it allows for the private use of capital. However, the motivation of the people operating under Capitalism are varying and in fact do include things such as charity which wouldn't be possible without free use of private capital. Speaking to motivations of a system, one without implict motives is editorializing. People have motives not Capitalism.
 
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I was in a SEC group chat the other day and they were all talking about how Vanderbilt doesnt want to be in teh SEC? has anyone else heard of this?
 

So_Money said:
Capitalism doesn't have a motive it allows for the private use of capital. However, the motivation of the people operating under Capitalism are varying and in fact do include things such as charity which wouldn't be possible without free use of private capital. Speaking to motivations of a system, one without implict motives is editorializing. People have motives not Capitalism.
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Well, duh, the definition refers to private actors. Private use of capital happens in all kinds of economic and political systems, it isn't exclusive to capitalism.
 
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Who will the B1G add next?

You can say what you want about Stanford’s football, but the reality is they are a Harbaugh away from being a major football power and as the Harvard of the West Coast, B1G academics would want them badly. Plus they are very good at all the other sports.

Cal can go to the Mountain West but they would make a nice West Coast version of Northwestern.

Norte Dame is still the number one on the B1G dance card.

If the B1G could get those 2 schools, the would do it in a heartbeat. By far the best fits major sports wise and academically.

They need to get Stanford while they are desperate.
 

alaska said:
Big10
SEC
Big12
Mountain West now about to be the 4th best conference....once ACC picked apart....
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Read somewhere that the B12 is having discussions with Oregon State and San Diego State.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Well, duh, the definition refers to private actors. Private use of capital happens in all kinds of economic and political systems, it isn't exclusive to capitalism.
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The definition refers to Capitalism not the actors. That would be a definition of Capitalist. I made a statement that was irrefutably true which was questioned. After futher explanation now you agree...? I don't need to derail the thread over a one sentence correction on the understanding of capitalism. Capitalism is indifferent and good or bad can come from it. It doesn't have motives or anything else, it is not sentient, it is a system whereby people use their private capital to do what they want for profit, altruistic reasons or something in between. Any system that uses private capital is a byproduct of capitalism, restraint on the use of capital is a byproduct of a different system, yes hybrid systems exist, such as, mixed markets or planned markets which is what we have in the US.
 
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DCinOK said:
How can anyone seriously think that Easy Transfer/NIL/conference realignment is good for college football?! For college sports, in general?! I'm a proud Capitalist, but this nonsense has gone way too far.
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Would guess there are very few that really like the new college landscape but nothing we can do about it so if you want to be a college football fan you roll with the changes and if you don't you find something else to do with your Saturdays.

As long as the Gophers are playing football I will be tuning in to watch and rooting for them to succeed. Can't control all the other crap so really no reason to get overly worked up about it. It is a shame to see the direction it is all headed but it is what it is.
 

Otis said:
Who will the B1G add next?

You can say what you want about Stanford’s football, but the reality is they are a Harbaugh away from being a major football power and as the Harvard of the West Coast, B1G academics would want them badly. Plus they are very good at all the other sports.

Cal can go to the Mountain West but they would make a nice West Coast version of Northwestern.

Norte Dame is still the number one on the B1G dance card.

If the B1G could get those 2 schools, the would do it in a heartbeat. By far the best fits major sports wise and academically.

They need to get Stanford while they are desperate.
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Stanford had a really good stretch 2010-2017
Other than that stretch theyve been a pretty average program post 1990

2010-2017 (8 years)
7 top 20 finishes
6 10+ win seasons
0 losing seasons

1990-2009 + 2018-2023 (26 years)
2 top 20 finishes
1 10+ win season
16 losing seasons



In a lot of ways I think of them like a slightly worse Michigan state (in the bad years) but with a smaller fanbase and a better rowing team
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Read somewhere that the B12 is having discussions with Oregon State and San Diego State.
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Also saw where the Pac4 are talking to MWC about merger but could ask to have hawaii, san jose, nevada kicked out.
 

mngolf said:
Also saw where the Pac4 are talking to MWC about merger but could ask to have hawaii, san jose, nevada kicked out.
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Would be sad that there are 16 teams and because Colorado joined the big 12 Nevada has to joint conference USA. But here we are
 

So_Money said:
The definition refers to Capitalism not the actors. That would be a definition of Capitalist. I made a statement that was irrefutably true which was questioned. After futher explanation now you agree...? I don't need to derail the thread over a one sentence correction on the understanding of capitalism. Capitalism is indifferent and good or bad can come from it. It doesn't have motives or anything else, it is not sentient, it is a system whereby people use their private capital to do what they want for profit, altruistic reasons or something in between. Any system that uses private capital is a byproduct of capitalism, restraint on the use of capital is a byproduct of a different system, yes hybrid systems exist, such as, mixed markets or planned markets which is what we have in the US.
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The definition provided is very straightforward, understandable, and universally accepted. Bummer you can't connect the dots within it.
 

PMWinSTP said:
The definition provided is very straightforward, understandable, and universally accepted. Bummer you can't connect the dots within it.
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Whatever man. Not on me to explain capitalism to you. I certainly don't need to say anything more on it, I explained it accurately and anything more only acts to derail the thread.

That said the universally accepted definition is the same as it has always been... with no editorial.

capitalism
noun
cap·i·tal·ism ˈka-pə-tə-ˌliz-əm ˈkap-tə-
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market
 
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