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Florida is looked at a lot by the recruiting services but it's still easy to fly under the radar there. There are so many recruits to look at that a late blossoming or injured player could get missed. Florida is usally the last state to get updated simply because of the raw numbers of recruits. I will wait and see where the recruiting class is on signing day, between now and then, I expect that the recruiting evaluators will have caught up. There are at least 4 revaluation periods between now and then.
 

GopherSOB said:
Hey 3399, you are correct in saying that coach Kill has never coached at the BCS level but think about it this way. Coach kill has coached kids from lower levels, non BCS conferences, FCS teams and Division 11 teams in which some of his players went on to NFL carreers. So my question is, does this make him a better judge of tallent and a coach who is more apt to be able to "coach up" his players. Seems to me it should be even harder to find kids at these lower programs after every higher division/school has sifted through every recruit in the nation and to then be able to coach them up to a point where they get into the NFL. Not trying to start an argument here but it seems to me that coach Kill has already proven to some degree that; 1) He has a nack for identifying tallent and 2) He can coach up is recruites.
Just saying.
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I understand what you are saying and I also think it is important to remember that Kill recruited a number of JUCO and players transferring down from Division 1 formely A schools. For example, on his last team, his Qb was a transfer from Western Kentucky and his running back came from Kansas University. Recruiting at a school like Southern Illinois is much different than a Big Ten school. At Minnesota, he can't bring in players from other D1A's and have them be eligible right away. He will not be able to bring in as many JUCO players. When you are at Southern Illinois and a running back from Kansas wants to transfer in, there is not a lot of talent evaluation taking place. You just say YES and hope to bring him in.
 

highwayman said:
MustangMountainMan has (at least temporarily) taken the crown from lakesbison as the most ignorant, moronic, least analytical, and schtupid dufus on this board. Go ahead, say I'm wrong. Over/under he gets banned: August 15.
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Thank Goodness we have morons like you policing the board. I could never figure out which posters are trolls without your invauluable help. Thanks also for posting something that had nothing to do with football nor the thread it resides in. Now I've done the same in turn. I guess I'm as much a dink as you are.
 

Thanks, I apologise for my outburst. I guess you've made 2,051 posts without any emotional responses. I welcome your action if you seem to think this one post deserves it. I am not a moron, but I do know when I see one. You are not one. You would be surprised how many people are arguing with this guy, which is a waste of time and space. I would like you to see my post on Ellestad vs. Lloyd over in ESPN Insider - Minnesota.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Rivals 4-stars on our 2011 projected 2-deep:

Anthony Jacobs
MarQueis Gray
Keanon Cooper
Brandon Green
Michael Carter
Jimmy Gjere
Lamonte Edwards (poss.)

Scout 4-stars on our 2011 projected 2-deep:

Jimmy Gjere
Ra'Shede Hageman
Matt Garin

ESPN 4-stars on our 2011 projected 2-deep:

Tommy Olson (poss.)
Moses Alipate (poss.)
Keanon Cooper
MarQueis Gray

Buuut I'm sure you already knew that. That's what turns me on about ya - your attention to detail.http://www.killerclips.com/clip.php?id=94&qid=984
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Lois: "How would you like for me to make your life a living hell?" Ace: "Well thanks for the offer, Lois. But I'm not really ready for a relationship right now. AAALLLLL RRRighty Then!"
 


Until a coach has a chance to be working/recruiting kids from the 9th and 10th grades you don't know what his recruiting look like. Give it 2-3 years to know what Kill's B1G recruiting will be. This is still MAC level recruiting for another year. If we had a tradition like Michigan it would be a faster transition. We do not. BTW, I love camp offer from coaches like this staff.

Kill played B1G teams tough with MAC recruiting. Even beat some and hung around the top 25. I am very OK at this point.
 

grunkiejr said:
My point was that FL is better recruited than Minnesota because everybody in the country knows it is a top 3 state for football talent. Far more scouts spend far more time there and have far more opportunities to scout the players so far fewer players fly under the radar. If you're good, they'll notice you in some game or practice. Rivals doesn't hasn't even had a midwest analyst for the last 6+ months let alone sent anyone up to Minnesota to see recruits.
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To be a fit for BCS football scholership you have to fit the physical requirements; size, weight, speed, quickness. A simple test of available candidates narrows the field down tremendously. Florida just has that many more candidates. It is a rare athlete that doesn't fit the physical profile that can succeed. It's easy to recruit a state like Minnesota because there are so few that fit the profile. Those that don't fit the profile and succeed usually get the offers at the end of the recruiting cycle, Marion Barber III, Eric Decker etc..
 





dpodoll68 said:
Rivals 4-stars on our 2011 projected 2-deep:

Anthony Jacobs
MarQueis Gray
Keanon Cooper
Brandon Green
Michael Carter
Jimmy Gjere
Lamonte Edwards (poss.)

Scout 4-stars on our 2011 projected 2-deep:

Jimmy Gjere
Ra'Shede Hageman
Matt Garin

ESPN 4-stars on our 2011 projected 2-deep:

Tommy Olson (poss.)
Moses Alipate (poss.)
Keanon Cooper
MarQueis Gray

Buuut I'm sure you already knew that. That's what turns me on about ya - your attention to detail.

http://www.killerclips.com/clip.php?id=94&qid=984
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Well, under a forced rank voting method, you have 2 four star athletes. I guess my error was one and yours... way too many. So, with no consensus on which is a 4 star, you have to go with a ranked voting method of some kind between the services. In this case, only Cooper and Gjere are 4 star athletes on the team. Everyone else is a consensus 3 star. If we as many 4 star athletes on the team as you say, Brew would have been termed before last season began.
 

Mustang Mountain Man said:
Well, under a forced rank voting method, you have 2 four star athletes. I guess my error was one and yours... way too many. So, with no consensus on which is a 4 star, you have to go with a ranked voting method of some kind between the services. In this case, only Cooper and Gjere are 4 star athletes on the team. Everyone else is a consensus 3 star. If we as many 4 star athletes on the team as you say, Brew would have been termed before last season began.
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"hahahaha, i'm mountain mustang football coach man and I make up ranking rules to support my own silly claims. Plus most of what I have said in this thread have been made up facts along with loose predictions based off of nothing."
 

I'm still waiting for mmm to say which players he thinks are going to suck. Since this is the worst class ever and all he should be able to name a bunch.
 

The First Two Who Suck

btowngopher said:
I'm still waiting for mmm to say which players he thinks are going to suck. Since this is the worst class ever and all he should be able to name a bunch.
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The first two on 3M man's list should be really easy. I expect he will start with Maxx Williams and Nick Rallis since they have either no or few stars. Another negative for these two is that they are included on the Dick Butkus 51 player watch list. I don’t know what this list is for but I am sure it can’t be good since according to 3M man this is going to be a terrible class. Our best hope is that this list is for the potentially best dressed 2012 recruits. Then, if the class is bad as 3M man says they are, they will be at least be well dressed.
 



stocker08 said:
"hahahaha, i'm mountain mustang football coach man and I make up ranking rules to support my own silly claims. Plus most of what I have said in this thread have been made up facts along with loose predictions based off of nothing."
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Not to mention that even in his ridiculous backpedaling post he STILL missed Gray as a 4 star!!
 

jovs said:
To be a fit for BCS football scholership you have to fit the physical requirements; size, weight, speed, quickness. A simple test of available candidates narrows the field down tremendously. Florida just has that many more candidates. It is a rare athlete that doesn't fit the physical profile that can succeed. It's easy to recruit a state like Minnesota because there are so few that fit the profile. Those that don't fit the profile and succeed usually get the offers at the end of the recruiting cycle, Marion Barber III, Eric Decker etc..
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You seem to implicate that Minnesota has virtually no talent. I argue hard against that. Many MN kids who are so lowly-rated come in and do quite well at the U; many lowly-rated MN kids head to smaller schools and make them some of top squads of their conferences, some national powerhouses at that level; and many MN kids head to other big schools and do well.

You know what MN's real problem is? It's not a total lack of talent, it's a lack of (1) big name HS programs and (2) national recognition. The media could care less about MN kids because MN is a place, especially in the fall and early winter, where the national media simply would rather not be. The national media does not do a good job of evaluating MN talent, and therefore most of MN's talent is unknown and therefore underrated.

For many many years the media did the same thing with MN basketball - underrated the MN kids - and the same thing happened. Wisconsin built a good basketball program largely on the backs of MN kids. Other MN kids shined elsewhere, big and small schools. It appears that the media has caught on over the past several years though, the MN basketball player ratings have gone up because of the respect garnered from those previous underrated athletes.

I'm not saying MN is a hotbed of football talent. Not even close. But to think it's a barren wasteland in terms of football is simply naieve. Especially in the outdoor stadiums, the weather toughness of the MN kids should be a big factor. And no one should ever discount the loyalty of playing for the home team. Kill would be well-served to offer more MN kids, not fewer. They won't all pan out, but those that do will do much to propel this program forward.

P.S. It's a shame that MN kids have propelled the neighbor rivals forward (WI and IA) while leaving the home team behind. WI and IA knew what MN didn't - MN has plenty of quality, underrated football talent.
 




cncmin said:
You seem to implicate that Minnesota has virtually no talent. I argue hard against that. Many MN kids who are so lowly-rated come in and do quite well at the U; many lowly-rated MN kids head to smaller schools and make them some of top squads of their conferences, some national powerhouses at that level; and many MN kids head to other big schools and do well.

You know what MN's real problem is? It's not a total lack of talent, it's a lack of (1) big name HS programs and (2) national recognition. The media could care less about MN kids because MN is a place, especially in the fall and early winter, where the national media simply would rather not be. The national media does not do a good job of evaluating MN talent, and therefore most of MN's talent is unknown and therefore underrated.

For many many years the media did the same thing with MN basketball - underrated the MN kids - and the same thing happened. Wisconsin built a good basketball program largely on the backs of MN kids. Other MN kids shined elsewhere, big and small schools. It appears that the media has caught on over the past several years though, the MN basketball player ratings have gone up because of the respect garnered from those previous underrated athletes.

I'm not saying MN is a hotbed of football talent. Not even close. But to think it's a barren wasteland in terms of football is simply naieve. Especially in the outdoor stadiums, the weather toughness of the MN kids should be a big factor. And no one should ever discount the loyalty of playing for the home team. Kill would be well-served to offer more MN kids, not fewer. They won't all pan out, but those that do will do much to propel this program forward.

P.S. It's a shame that MN kids have propelled the neighbor rivals forward (WI and IA) while leaving the home team behind. WI and IA knew what MN didn't - MN has plenty of quality, underrated football talent.
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Minnesota produces very little division 1 talent on a consistent basis. Per capita they are near the bottom of states in producing Division 1 talent. They also in many years have produced less total division 1 players than nearby states with significantly lower populations (i.e. Iowa, Nebraska). The problem isn't a lack of national media exposure, it is a lack of Division talent being produced here at the rate it is in other places. If you have true division 1 talent, the odds are that schools will find you no matter where you are from, realizing that there are exceptions to the rule.
 

GopherGod said:
Minnesota produces very little division 1 talent on a consistent basis. .... They also in many years have produced less total division 1 players than nearby states with significantly lower populations (i.e. Iowa, Nebraska).
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At least comparing to NE, there is no comparison. At least since 2003, there have been more division 1 players from Minnesota every year.
 



RodentRampage said:
That data doesn't say whether or not the number of FBS players has increased, only that Minnesota has a low number of FBS players per capita.
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It doesn't just give you per capita data, it also shows total number of recruits regardless of per capita on the site. Here is the link to that specific report showing total number and not taking per capita into consideration. If you do look at per capita production of Division 1 talent the numbers get even uglier however in how Minnesota does in comparison to other states.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/webextra/content/items/starsearchstatesoverall.pdf
 

GopherGod said:
Not according to this data. Maybe you have some different data to share that contradicts this. This is just the best or most in-depth analysis I have seen of where the athletes are actually coming from.
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So, what is a recruit? I just looked at the Rivals state rankings for 2003 to 2011 for Minnesota and Nebraska. In two of the years, Nebraska had no list. In two other years they only had a top five. In all years Minnesota had at least a top ten.
 

GopherGod said:
It doesn't just give you per capita data, it also shows total number of recruits regardless of per capita on the site. Here is the link to that specific report showing total number and not taking per capita into consideration. If you do look at per capita production of Division 1 talent the numbers get even uglier however in how Minnesota does in comparison to other states.
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Still, the link doesn't address whether or not the number of recruits from Minnesota has increased, decreased or remained the same.

What is interesting is that cities tend to produce more recruits per capita than the rest of the state does. It may that urban high schools are recruited more heavily, and that potential talent goes unnoticed. Of course, since the phenomenon of urban areas outperforming rural areas seems to hold true all over the country, recruits going under the radar wouldn't be just here. Or perhaps in small towns, the stud players don't work as hard as they might when there is more competition.
 

GopherGod said:
Not according to this data. Maybe you have some different data to share that contradicts this. This is just the best or most in-depth analysis I have seen of where the athletes are actually coming from.
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So, a junior sportswriter did this once in 2009, included walk-ons (and whoever else might be on a roster) and based it on hometowns listed on team rosters? Wow, what a definitive source.
 

harrys ghost said:
So, what is a recruit? I just looked at the Rivals state rankings for 2003 to 2011 for Minnesota and Nebraska. In two of the years, Nebraska had no list. In two other years they only had a top five. In all years Minnesota had at least a top ten.
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The data I linked however specifically looks at how many players from each state are on a Division 1 roster. When comparing states' production of Division 1 talent, the most accurate way to determine this would seem logically to look at actual Division 1 rosters, versus which players were or were not evaluated by Rivals. Based upon what you state apparently being included in a Rivals list is not a requirement for being invited to join a Division 1 program.
 

jovs said:
To be a fit for BCS football scholership you have to fit the physical requirements; size, weight, speed, quickness. A simple test of available candidates narrows the field down tremendously. Florida just has that many more candidates. It is a rare athlete that doesn't fit the physical profile that can succeed. It's easy to recruit a state like Minnesota because there are so few that fit the profile. Those that don't fit the profile and succeed usually get the offers at the end of the recruiting cycle, Marion Barber III, Eric Decker etc..
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Actually Minnesota is a very hard place to recruit because (1) Not as many kids go to camps where their height, weight, speed, quickness is measured and (2) the hours of practice time for Minnesota players is far less than other states so the players are more raw. A developed athlete is much easier to project than a raw athlete that hasn't unlocked much of his potential.
 

GopherGod said:
Minnesota produces very little division 1 talent on a consistent basis. Per capita they are near the bottom of states in producing Division 1 talent. They also in many years have produced less total division 1 players than nearby states with significantly lower populations (i.e. Iowa, Nebraska). The problem isn't a lack of national media exposure, it is a lack of Division talent being produced here at the rate it is in other places. If you have true division 1 talent, the odds are that schools will find you no matter where you are from, realizing that there are exceptions to the rule.
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You obviously didn't understand what I posted. I argued, in essence that more D1 talent exists in MN HS's than is actually coming out of it. We all know MN doesn't produce much D1 talent (duh). I gave my reasoning behind that, and surely it isn't solely based on missing talent. There's much more around than the national media recognizes.
 

cncmin said:
You obviously didn't understand what I posted. I argued, in essence that more D1 talent exists in MN HS's than is actually coming out of it. We all know MN doesn't produce much D1 talent (duh). I gave my reasoning behind that, and surely it isn't solely based on missing talent. There's much more around than the national media recognizes.
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So where is this D1 talent disappearing to that you claim exists but isn't showing up at Division 1 programs. And before you state that they are opting to play lower level football, I am sure the same thing happens in other states with some players as well at nearly the same frequency as here. Now if you have data that says that Minnesota has a higher percentage of players turning down Division 1 programs for smaller programs then you may have a case there. You claim it is largely to do with national media perception, as if implying that coaches allow media to guide where and who they recruit. The vast majority of coaches will recruit players regardless of the media buzz if they think the kid can play. Players get media buzz however if they are talented, regardless of where they are from. True division 1 talent is found regardless of where it resides, atleast the overwhelming majority of the time.
 

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