Our Commits: No other offers... no problem?

[GoAUpher]

these boys will be 4 and five star recruits by the end of the season.

I like them too but let's not get crazy. 3 star is more likely. Something tells me it is pretty rare for unranked/lowly ranked kids to jump up to 4 or (especially) 5 star status.

 

[dpodoll68]

Brady Hoke was very popular as a candidate for Minnesota. He has taken the helm with a school with loads of talent, tradition, and top line potential. Iowa has had very solid recruiting classes and top notch coaching. Wisconsin has had years of very good recruiting which is only getting better right now. Nebraska is a super power in talent and coaching.

Now it seems we're really getting to the heart of your terrible arguments.

Records last 10 years (~ lifespan of CFB fanhood for incoming recruits):

Wisconsin 88-41 (.682), 1 BT Champ, 1 BCS Bowl game, 9 bowl games, 1 losing season

Iowa 85-41 (.675), 2 BT Champs, 2 BCS Bowl games, 9 bowl games, 1 losing season

Nebraska 84-46 (.646), 0 B12 Champs, 3 B12 Div. Champs, 1 BCS Bowl game, 8 bowl games, 2 losing seasons

Michigan 79-46 (.632), 2 BT Champs, 4 BCS Bowl games, 8 bowl games, 2 losing seasons



Minnesota 59-65 (.476), 0 BT Champs, 0 BCS Bowl games, 7 bowl games, 5 losing seasons


You said it yourself: Michigan has a ton of tradition and has had good coaching, Iowa has had good coaching, Wisconsin has had good coaching, Nebraska has had a ton of talent and good coaching. So now, Minnesota, which does have tradition (though it is now all over 50 years ago), but has had little coaching and little talent for decades, is supposed to come on and recruit as their equals in the first year of a new coach? Have you lost your g*ddamn mind?

 

[getthemall]

My Argument. You say 3 star. But a 3star from Miami from the 6a division Miami central 2010 state champs.

 

[GoAUpher]

My Argument. You say 3 star. But a 3star from Miami from the 6a division Miami central 2010 state champs.

No doubt! And I'm glad we got him. Just didn't see the need in feeding MMM hyperbole that he can spin into a new rant about how everyone who disagrees with him is delusional.

 

[SMU GOPHS FAN]

Let me be the first to predict that we will have a new coaching search in place by 2014.

The only way this happens is if A)Kill is so successfull here he gets lured away to a helmet school (gawd I hate that term) or B)sadly his cancer comes back and he is unable to continue coaching.

 

[Mustang Mountain Man]

Not feeling picked on. Just ready to bust some chops over setting the bar for Kill so low a centipede could walk over it and still have its feet on the ground on both sides of the bar.

Won't give out the name of my company, because it has my name on it. Won't place bets on my prediction, because, I won't give out my name to anyone on a public board. Some of the replies need to read what I said, not what you believe I said. I never said Hoke would be a better recruiter than Kill. I am using Michigan as a yardstick. I am using Nebraska as a yardstick. All of the Legends is our yardstick. When Iowa had that top 20 recruiting class a few years back, less than 4 years later they tied for the title in the B1G. Not to say someone refuses to see the facts, but they did miss the point a team that had 20, 4 and 5 star athletes on the Iowa team that tied for 1st. As for Wisconsin, they are having a stellar year at recruiting. They have 4, 4 star recruits this year out of 8. They have 11 on their team right now. How many do we have? 1? And, you wonder why we are getting our butts handed to us on a regular basis from Wisconsin????!!!! Wisconsin is a rising power by every measure of wins and recruiting. Does Kill get a pass on recruiting simply because he is the new kid on the block. He is a known winning coach. Have we marketed that? Not at all. Seems like a big miss there.

As for the DT from Miami, 3 star guy. Okay, average at best for the Legends. Holy crap, has it been so long since we have had a run at the championship that average looks really good!? Yes, it has my friends. And, one recruit like that doesn't cut the mustard. It means we are 5 recruits like him away from even competing.

As for the DT/OG from St. Thomas.... Yes, he is a DT, he played both sides of the ball! We should use him as a DT because that is a position of need. The Offensive line has had far more success at recruiting for position and once again the d-line is getting lip service and no support. How bad was our defense in the last two years -- bottom feeders. So, moving him only to OG runs against the grain for improving the team.

As for Wren, I'll gladly take over the reins from the reining champ of running off at the mouth until the half-full crowd finds out the cup is 3/4 empty. Giving a coach a free pass for a year is not good business. The 2012 class is nearly full, and unless you pull some offers later (does the word 'trust' come to mind, or 'integrity'), then now is as good as any to judge the quality of the class. Besides, for you non-leader types out there, a mid-year evaluation is a damn good time to evaluate how the recruiting effort is going. Keeps you focused. Gives you a chance to evaluate what is +/-.

Takeaways from the Kill camps to date: Weak pool of potential recruits. No sizzle to the camps as far as buzz for the program (excluding GH). Narrow band of opportunity to evaluate the talent, very short view. Too narrow of a recruiting draw (mostly upper Midwest) Next time, have one or two camps down south of Missouri -- how about Miami and Oklahoma City. Have a High School coaches clinic for a day or two at the end of each camp. Build the base away from Minnesota as well as within Minnesota.

As for staff, I think they have been working hard, just not effectively. I have heard Kill say that recruiting has been a challenge. Nice candor. Time to face the challenge aggressively. Kill is under-promising the fan base. He is also under delivering. Kill has a system. But, the right people are more important than the right system. Tolerating mediocrity is bad judgement and never lose a good player because of lesser players. We attacked the status quo by replacing Brewster. Let's not replace one status quo for another. Don't let the program get caught in non-cognitive ignorance, where success breeds arrogance and false pride leaves the program with more bad decisions. Just because Kill is an effective leader in most instances, does not mean he is capable in all aspects of coaching.

Remember, differences in opinion only strengthen the strategy by culling out the good and bad ideas and replacing them with rigorous ones. Coach Kill has shown a propensity to have good ideas. I just don't see them as rigorous ones. Kill had an opportunity to examine his system and to analyze how well it would fit in Minnesota. He failed to make serious adjustments. He brought in his existing system and only changed slightly to fit the new environment. The term 'good enough' has been brought to my attention. Well, my response is still no, not good enough. Not close to good enough.

 

[Unregistered User]

When Iowa had that top 20 recruiting class a few years back, less than 4 years later they tied for the title in the B1G...As for Wisconsin, they are having a stellar year at recruiting. They have 4, 4 star recruits this year out of 8. They have 11 on their team right now.

Was that Iowa recruiting class coming into an entirely new regime? Is Wisconsin's? That is the point you seem to continually ignore. If you want to compare classes, compare this year's class (when it's done) to the first class of Ferret-Face in Iowa, or Alvarez's first class at Whisky. At least there would be some parallels there.

He is a known winning coach. Have we marketed that? Not at all. Seems like a big miss there.

Good point. But we can go down the road of UofM marketing and fall into a dark hole again. But I agree, marketing needs to be stepped up.

 

[Seniorsmoke]

I would grade it an F based on long range considerations like time to develop (high cost and low probability of return), low probability of moving up the B1G standings based on the recruits 4 year potential, and I could not disagree more than I have that Jerry Kill is a superior coach to the other coaches in the conference. He most certainly is an upgrade from the very last coach, but it is highly uncertain that he is superior to the competition and can thus "coach up" the players to such a point as to overcome the game strategies, training, and play making of other schools.

Brady Hoke was very popular as a candidate for Minnesota. He has taken the helm with a school with loads of talent, tradition, and top line potential. Iowa has had very solid recruiting classes and top notch coaching. Wisconsin has had years of very good recruiting which is only getting better right now. Nebraska is a super power in talent and coaching. I have my eyes wide open and the reason I grade Minnesota with an F in recruiting is for the simple measure against the competition we are falling further back than ever. Our competitors are getting stronger in recruiting and we are measurably falling back. When I said we hare recruited the worst class in decades was not to judge the effort solely against previous Minnesota classes, but to also compare this team to its direct competition. Wisconsin is recruiting at close to its all time peak right now. Michigan is doing traditionally well. Nebraska is doing traditionally well. Iowa has been rising in the ranks over the last two decades and is not letting up. Michigan State has been on a roll the last 3 years. When we come in last in the legends division in ranking, and then see how many none ranked players we have right now (immaterial that they will later on be given stars). For someone who tries to come off as an intellectual, you sure seem to have a penchant for over-looking the obvious.

1) Some of the U commits have not even been evaluated thus have zero stars, so giving a grade (F in your case) to a recruiting class is more than a little premature. As an example, Hinojosa has no stars associated with his Rivals ranking despite having offers from Michigan St and West Virginia. If the 5 Gopher recruits that have yet to be reviewed by Rivals all become 3 stars or better would you have a different opinion?

2) None of these recruits have even begun their season yet, so judging their "worth" based on their Sophomore and Junior years (for the high school recruits) without taking into consideration summer camp or Senior year performance is premature.

3) Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Nebraska have had just a tad more recent success on the field than the U has had. To think that this has nothing to do with recruiting would be foolish.

4) Neither Kill nor Hoke have coached a game at their new Big 10 school so it is impossible to know how they will stack up to their conference peers as it relates to "coaching up" their players.

I am no where near a Kill apologist so I will reserve my judgment until at the very least a season has passed.

 

[dpodoll68]

As for Wisconsin, they are having a stellar year at recruiting. They have 4, 4 star recruits this year out of 8. They have 11 on their team right now. How many do we have? 1? And, you wonder why we are getting our butts handed to us on a regular basis from Wisconsin????!!!!

Rivals 4-stars on our 2011 projected 2-deep:

Anthony Jacobs
MarQueis Gray
Keanon Cooper
Brandon Green
Michael Carter
Jimmy Gjere
Lamonte Edwards (poss.)

Scout 4-stars on our 2011 projected 2-deep:

Jimmy Gjere
Ra'Shede Hageman
Matt Garin

ESPN 4-stars on our 2011 projected 2-deep:

Tommy Olson (poss.)
Moses Alipate (poss.)
Keanon Cooper
MarQueis Gray

Buuut I'm sure you already knew that. That's what turns me on about ya - your attention to detail.

http://www.killerclips.com/clip.php?id=94&qid=984

 

[Calgoph]

If anyone has a marketing plan that will sell a losing football team they could have about 60 Division 1 clients by the end of July. Meanwhile the Gophers are marketing a new start with a new coach by having Coach Kill make appearances all over the state & appear numerous times on radio and TV in the Twin Cities.

I suspect the stadium will be full, or near full, when the season starts. The empty seats last year were clearly the result of losing. Marketing won't change that. An improving team and some wins will give fans hope and they will come.

 

[RodentRampage]

Winning comes first, recruiting follows. You can't use Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska and Michigan as standards of comparison for recruiting. That's like comparing selling Coke to selling Shasta. The Shasta is a much harder sell. The only valid comparison is to teams in a similar situation.

Yes, recruiting is important. And yes, Iowa had a good recruiting class, and later had a good record. But the reason they had a good recruiting class is at least as much the result of success on the field as it is skill in recruiting. Over the last 30 years, Iowa has been to 23 bowls, has had 5 conference championships and been in the top ten 6 times. Therefore, it isn't surprising that a coach could sell that to recruits. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Iowa_Hawkeyes_football_seasons

The Gophers over the same period have had 12 bowl games (all of them lesser bowls), were only ranked twice, and not in the top 10. And of course no conference titles. If you look at recent history, the team just won three games, and hasn't won 8 since 2003. That's a hard sell for any coach. Yes, Kill has a winning record as a head coach, and I am certain they are playing this up to recruits as is possible, but it only goes so far. Any coach is going to have a hard time selling recruits on this program. The only thing that will change this is winning.

 

[GopherGod]

Winning comes first, recruiting follows. You can't use Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska and Michigan as standards of comparison for recruiting. That's like comparing selling Coke to selling Shasta. The Shasta is a much harder sell. The only valid comparison is to teams in a similar situation.

Yes, recruiting is important. And yes, Iowa had a good recruiting class, and later had a good record. But the reason they had a good recruiting class is at least as much the result of success on the field as it is skill in recruiting. Over the last 30 years, Iowa has been to 23 bowls, has had 5 conference championships and been in the top ten 6 times. Therefore, it isn't surprising that a coach could sell that to recruits. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Iowa_Hawkeyes_football_seasons

The Gophers over the same period have had 12 bowl games (all of them lesser bowls), were only ranked twice, and not in the top 10. And of course no conference titles. If you look at recent history, the team just won three games, and hasn't won 8 since 2003. That's a hard sell for any coach. Yes, Kill has a winning record as a head coach, and I am certain they are playing this up to recruits as is possible, but it only goes so far. Any coach is going to have a hard time selling recruits on this program. The only thing that will change this is winning.

Most of the time this is true, unless you are an exceptional recruiter like a James Franklin appears to be in his first year at Vanderbilt. The class that guy is putting together is amazing for Vanderbilt and the obstacles he has to overcome there make Minnesota's look insignificant. No history of winning or even bowl games really, perennial doormat by a long shot in a tough football conference, and significant academic entrance requirements to contend with.

 

[GophersInIowa]

He is a known winning coach. Have we marketed that? Not at all. Seems like a big miss there.

The media has been all over the fact that he's won everywhere he's been. It's been talked about in the webisodes and in his visits around the state. Many fans and "experts" think he'll be successful because of his past successes. I think it's been talked about many, many times.

 

[highwayman]

OK, folks. We have all come to the conclusion MMM is a complete moron and a troll. Stop quoting him and stop arguing with him. You can't reason with an idiot or a troll, but you can certainly ignore him. Do as I do, and add him to your ignore list. If others don't quote him, you will never see anything he writes. Eventually, he will go away. Peace be with you and this cretin.

 

[Formo]

Rivals 4-stars on our 2011 projected 2-deep:

Anthony Jacobs
MarQueis Gray
Keanon Cooper
Brandon Green
Michael Carter
Jimmy Gjere
Lamonte Edwards (poss.)

Scout 4-stars on our 2011 projected 2-deep:

Jimmy Gjere
Ra'Shede Hageman
Matt Garin

ESPN 4-stars on our 2011 projected 2-deep:

Tommy Olson (poss.)
Moses Alipate (poss.)
Keanon Cooper
MarQueis Gray

Buuut I'm sure you already knew that. That's what turns me on about ya - your attention to detail.

http://www.killerclips.com/clip.php?id=94&qid=984

Have I told you that I absolutely LOVE it when you school someone (especially morons)?? If not.. I LOVE it.

 

[Monty519]

Most of the time this is true, unless you are an exceptional recruiter like a James Franklin appears to be in his first year at Vanderbilt. The class that guy is putting together is amazing for Vanderbilt and the obstacles he has to overcome there make Minnesota's look insignificant. No history of winning or even bowl games really, perennial doormat by a long shot in a tough football conference, and significant academic entrance requirements to contend with.

Looking at Vandy's class, only one of their 12 recruits aren't from Tennessee or Georgia, and that one's from Louisiana. Kill doesn't have the ability to load up on recruits within a 200 mile radius of him and expect to end up with a highly ranked class, there's just not enough of them. Don't get me wrong, what Franklin's doing is quite impressive and shows what a great recruiter is capable of, but I just think it's a little bit of a different deal down there as opposed to here, despite the very big obstacles you point out.

 

[GopherGod]

Looking at Vandy's class, only one of their 12 recruits aren't from Tennessee or Georgia, and that one's from Louisiana. Kill doesn't have the ability to load up on recruits within a 200 mile radius of him and expect to end up with a highly ranked class, there's just not enough of them. Don't get me wrong, what Franklin's doing is quite impressive and shows what a great recruiter is capable of, but I just think it's a little bit of a different deal down there as opposed to here, despite the very big obstacles you point out.

True, but when you also take into effect that he also has to compete against other Division 1 programs in his own state, as well as very successful SEC programs that are close by and going for the same type of athlete, it is impressive. It does show that it is possible to have a very good recruiting class out of the gate at a program with tons of limitations if the coach is a natural recruiter.

 

[btowngopher]

It's pretty funny that someone can look at this half season of recruiting and determine the Coach is now doomed and will be gone by 2014. You can't make it up.

 

[RodentRampage]

Making mincemeat of MMM has some entertainment value, but it is just too easy.

 

[Mustang Mountain Man]

Rivals 4-stars on our 2011 projected 2-deep:

Anthony Jacobs
MarQueis Gray
Keanon Cooper
Brandon Green
Michael Carter
Jimmy Gjere
Lamonte Edwards (poss.)

Scout 4-stars on our 2011 projected 2-deep:

Jimmy Gjere
Ra'Shede Hageman
Matt Garin

ESPN 4-stars on our 2011 projected 2-deep:

Tommy Olson (poss.)
Moses Alipate (poss.)
Keanon Cooper
MarQueis Gray

Buuut I'm sure you already knew that. That's what turns me on about ya - your attention to detail.

http://www.killerclips.com/clip.php?id=94&qid=984

I could never figure out inflected voice in the written word. Your catching on. Lol.

 

[Mustang Mountain Man]

The media has been all over the fact that he's won everywhere he's been. It's been talked about in the webisodes and in his visits around the state. Many fans and "experts" think he'll be successful because of his past successes. I think it's been talked about many, many times.

Interview any ten Minnesotans and see if it gets above 40% recognition. Then, we'll talk... I'ld take 2% nationally with all the "talk". Your not a casual fan.

 

[Mustang Mountain Man]

If anyone has a marketing plan that will sell a losing football team they could have about 60 Division 1 clients by the end of July. Meanwhile the Gophers are marketing a new start with a new coach by having Coach Kill make appearances all over the state & appear numerous times on radio and TV in the Twin Cities.

I suspect the stadium will be full, or near full, when the season starts. The empty seats last year were clearly the result of losing. Marketing won't change that. An improving team and some wins will give fans hope and they will come.

The subject is recruiting, not fanbase. I'm talking messages to the recruits. Of all the offers, the top end players who actually considered us have not signed on. The top recruit is considered soft and he is a home state kid. It was time to re-brand and reload with new emphasis on being a winning program. That buys a bump and instead we get poofff. There are marketers who can spin rock into dollars. A person won't buy, "we're not there yet" and "we have a long ways to go." Those are true statements, but it isn't in the marketing message of how to be successful in sales. We call that loser talk where I come from. Losers talk of how far we have to go. Every stop Jerry Kill has made, that was part of his stump speech. Hey, I could sell asbestos underwear to any jock out there and all I would have to say is Julius Caesar wore it every day, tunic and all (he did). People died of tampered with Tylenol. J&J didn't shy away from marketing the product. They put a tamperproof seal on the product and apologized. Sales boomed. The naysayers will tell you it can't be done. We were the losing program for too long. There is no message worth telling. That is a lame excuse for losers. What we need for Kill is a tamper proof message that get recruits excited again for Gopher football.

 

[Weisbrod]

Rivals 4-stars on our 2011 projected 2-deep:

Anthony Jacobs
MarQueis Gray
Keanon Cooper
Brandon Green
Michael Carter
Jimmy Gjere
Lamonte Edwards (poss.)

Scout 4-stars on our 2011 projected 2-deep:

Jimmy Gjere
Ra'Shede Hageman
Matt Garin

ESPN 4-stars on our 2011 projected 2-deep:

Tommy Olson (poss.)
Moses Alipate (poss.)
Keanon Cooper
MarQueis Gray

Buuut I'm sure you already knew that. That's what turns me on about ya - your attention to detail.

http://www.killerclips.com/clip.php?id=94&qid=984

And what have these 4 star players done for the program (besides Gray).

 

[Weisbrod]

This coach is old school and he believes that work and more work=success. I think one part of his evaluation of players has a lot to do with their character and willingness to learn and work relentlessly-both in the classroom and on the field. I think we are looking at the beginnings of another golden era.

Give me a break. I am so sick of these responses. You are only saying this because it sounds good. Sometimes no matter how hard a player works in the classroom and on the field, they just peak at above average. We need to not lie to ourselves anymore. This program needs good players not just hard workers. Division III programs recruit over-achieving, hard working kids who love going to class. Big 10 football programs recruit damn good, super athletic, blue chip football players who can keep themselves eligible and out of trouble.

 

[Breakin' The Plane]

Give me a break. I am so sick of these responses. You are only saying this because it sounds good. Sometimes no matter how hard a player works in the classroom and on the field, they just peak at above average. We need to not lie to ourselves anymore. This program needs good players not just hard workers. Division III programs recruit over-achieving, hard working kids who love going to class. Big 10 football programs recruit damn good, super athletic, blue chip football players who can keep themselves eligible and out of trouble.

And sometimes no matter how highly regarded a "blue chip" recruit is coming out of high school, they don't amount to a hill of beans. It goes both ways.

 

[Weisbrod]

And sometimes no matter how highly regarded a "blue chip" recruit is coming out of high school, they don't amount to a hill of beans. It goes both ways.

I agree 100 % but more times than not, blue chippers pan out more often than the non highly regarded prospects.

 

[sonnygarcia]

Give me a break. I am so sick of these responses.

I'm sick of never-has-been never-will-be Minnesota media members coming on Gopher Hole spewing their negative agendas. But hey, do your thing big guy.

 

[fryguy22]

And what have these 4 star players done for the program (besides Gray).

Did you read the thread or just jump all over a post? MMM tried to claim that we only had one 4star player on our roster, so Dpo refuted the claim quite easily. Strong reading comprehension bud.

Give me a break. I am so sick of these responses. You are only saying this because it sounds good. Sometimes no matter how hard a player works in the classroom and on the field, they just peak at above average. We need to not lie to ourselves anymore. This program needs good players not just hard workers.

I will be willing to accept starting at "above average" and building from there

 

[sonnygarcia]

Did you read the thread or just jump all over a post? MMM tried to claim that we only had one 4star player on our roster, so Dpo refuted the claim quite easily. Strong reading comprehension bud.

He has zero reading comprehension skills, I've called him on it numerous times, sad thing is he is in the media.

 

[grunkiejr]

in this case the possibility of having 5 kids from Miami Central. It is a no brainer. The football in Florida is like hockey in Minnesota. a 2** kid in Florida would be a 5***** star kid in Minnesota. There is no way you can evaluate every kid in Florida to the degree you can evaluate the couple of dozen D1 prospects in Minnesota. we have a top 20 in the State. In Dade county alone they have a top 300.

This might be the dumbest post you've ever written. It is as if you have no idea that the # of scouts in FL is way more than the # of them in MN. As if you have no idea that the # of times a player is evaluated at spring practice (yes, unlike us they have practice in the spring), at camps in the summer and again in the fall. There are so many scouts and recruiters in FL that it is much harder to go unnoticed there than it is here.

But lets assume your 2* in Miami is equivalent to a 5* in MN theory is correct...Why would Miami come up to Minnesota to recruit the Walsh brothers and Seantrel Henderson? Why did Bobby Bowden waste his time coming up to recruit Mauer and Weinke when he could take any 2* prospect in FL?