Other Bowl Games Thread

[GophersInIowa]

Disagree, we got a couple good playoff games meanwhile we rendered the OSU Michigan game meaningless, the great Northern Illinois upset meaningless, the whole regular season was fairly pointless.

Not really true. If OSU beats Michigan, they're in the CC and playing for a 1st round bye. Or if Ohio St had lost another game prior, Michigan beating them likely knocked them out.

 

[Some guy]

Not really true. If OSU beats Michigan, they're in the CC and playing for a 1st round bye. Or if Ohio St had lost another game prior, Michigan beating them likely knocked them out.

The other problem is the committee is supposed to rank best teams and does a shitty job at it

I’m fine if Ohio state gets bumped to 6 if it’s objective
But if it’s just making up who the best teams are how do you possibly put Georgia, Texas, and Penn state over Ohio state in the rankings?


So it mattered a great deal. Michigan beating Ohio state meant that the committee rigged the bracket and for some reason put Ohio state out of a quadrant of an SEC team…in my opinion they tried to rig the bracket to make it easier for Georgia and Texas to make final 4…and it backfired. But they at least achieved their goal of avoiding Oregon and Ohio state both in the final 4

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Well neither had the best season, but the new format doesn’t care about that anymore.

Oregon to order regular season champions rings?

 

[Some guy]

Oregon to order regular season champions rings?

They literally will get big ten championship rings

 

[btowngopher]

Oregon to order regular season champions rings?

They’d be champions in the pre playoff era, assuming a bowl victory. By the way we’d have half a dozen bowl games everyone would be paying attention to in order to see who the champion should be in the old system.

 

[GophersInIowa]

The other problem is the committee is supposed to rank best teams and does a shitty job at it

I’m fine if Ohio state gets bumped to 6 if it’s objective
But if it’s just making up who the best teams are how do you possibly put Georgia, Texas, and Penn state over Ohio state in the rankings?


So it mattered a great deal. Michigan beating Ohio state meant that the committee rigged the bracket and for some reason put Ohio state out of a quadrant of an SEC team…in my opinion they tried to rig the bracket to make it easier for Georgia and Texas to make final 4…and it backfired. But they at least achieved their goal of avoiding Oregon and Ohio state both in the final 4

Ohio St had just looked terrible against an average Michigan team. That's why.

 

[btowngopher]

Not really true. If OSU beats Michigan, they're in the CC and playing for a 1st round bye. Or if Ohio St had lost another game prior, Michigan beating them likely knocked them out.

It should’ve knocked them out being it was their second loss and they didn’t even make the CC. Instead it was meaningless, so what if they didn’t get a bye, they still got the undeserving opportunity.

 

[Some guy]

They’d be champions in the pre playoff era, assuming a bowl victory. By the way we’d have half a dozen bowl games everyone would be paying attention to in order to see who the champion should be in the old system.

In the pre playoff era Oregon would’ve beaten Georgia by about 20 in the championship

In the pre BCS era Oregon would’ve lost to Ohio state.
Notre dame would’ve beat Georgia in the sugar bowl (is my guess at the alliance’s matchup).
Notre dame would be national champs

 

[Some guy]

Ohio St had just looked terrible against an average Michigan team. That's why.

Agree.
So if you have an objective rating I am fine Ohio state moving down: but the committee just makes stuff up to say Georgia and Texas are top 3 so how can you rate Ohio state behind Penn state?

 

[GophersInIowa]

Agree.
So if you have an objective rating I am fine Ohio state moving down: but the committee just makes stuff up to say Georgia and Texas are top 3 so how can you rate Ohio state behind Penn state?

Penn St had 1 loss prior to conference championship game compared to 2 for Ohio St.

 

[Some guy]

Penn St had 1 loss prior to conference championship game compared to 2 for Ohio St.

So did Indiana?
So why behind Penn state who they beat head to head but not behind Indiana who they beat head to head?
Penn state’s best win was Illinois
Indiana’s was Michigan

So the committee makes up shit. If they’re going to just make it up on the fly…how can you not put Ohio state ahead of Penn state. Especially when Penn state then picked up a second loss…and the only reason Ohio state had two losses is because they already played the team that ended up giving Penn state their second loss

 

[Pompous Elitist]

They literally will get big ten championship rings

I guess my facetious meaning was lost - I was referring to claiming a national championship. #1!

 

[Some guy]

I guess my facetious meaning was lost - I was referring to claiming a national championship. #1!

This reminds me of Florida state basketball hanging a 2020 banner for being the number 4 team in the country

 

[GophersInIowa]

So did Indiana?
So why behind Penn state who they beat head to head but not behind Indiana who they beat head to head?
Penn state’s best win was Illinois
Indiana’s was Michigan

So the committee makes up shit. If they’re going to just make it up on the fly…how can you not put Ohio state ahead of Penn state. Especially when Penn state then picked up a second loss…and the only reason Ohio state had two losses is because they already played the team that ended up giving Penn state their second loss

There's not a huge difference between these teams. Penn St had a better win. They didn't get blown out by Ohio St like Indiana did. They played a P4 nonconference game where Indiana didn't. Indiana has beaten one P4 team that finished the season over .500 compared to three for Penn St.

Ohio St blowing out Indiana compared to Penn St losing to Ohio St by one score is probably a big reason.

I mean they kind have to make stuff up when humans are having to decide these things.

 

[Some guy]

There's not a huge difference between these teams. Penn St had a better win. They didn't get blown out by Ohio St like Indiana did. They played a P4 nonconference game where Indiana didn't. Indiana has beaten one P4 team that finished the season over .500 compared to three for Penn St.

Ohio St blowing out Indiana compared to Penn St losing to Ohio St by one score is probably a big reason.

I mean they kind have to make stuff up when humans are having to decide these things.

If you’re going to use one logic train to put penn state over Ohio State, you should follow the same logic train to put Indiana over Ohio state, in my opinion.

And in my opinion that’s the entire problem with the committee. They use whatever metric they want to just make stuff up. And they’re simply not good at making the stuff up.

Georgia would’ve lost to at least 6 of the teams in the playoff and I would’ve picked probably everyone except SMU over them. Seeded 2

Texas has two losses and two wins over 8+ win teams all year
Seeded 3
Indiana has one loss and a win over one of those two teams Texas beat.
Seeded 10


It’s all “eye test” and then they make up a metric that suits their eye test.
there is no logic to the rankings
So if it’s all eye test putting Penn state over Ohio state was insane

 

[Pompous Elitist]

They’d be champions in the pre playoff era, assuming a bowl victory. By the way we’d have half a dozen bowl games everyone would be paying attention to in order to see who the champion should be in the old system.

As humans we are creative, curious, inquiring and gifted with inductive/deductive reasoning, far beyond our ground scraping ancestors, but we are generally awful at predicting outcomes of sporting events.

Vegas Always Knows? A Mathematical Deep Dive

People always say that "Vegas knows," but how does the spread really relate to the outcome of college football games?

www.theonlycolors.com

Personally I HATED the prior ways of electing a national champion . Nothing is perfect, true. If CFB decides to hand out regular season national achievement awards that’s fine, but the playoff champion will hold more weight in the eyes of most fans.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

This reminds me of Florida state basketball hanging a 2020 banner for being the number 4 team in the country

Florida Senate declares Florida State as national champs with NCAA tournament cancelled​

I had to look it up . Is this orders of magnitudes worse than sportswriters choosing a champion, though? Arguable.

 

[Some guy]

Florida Senate declares Florida State as national champs with NCAA tournament cancelled​

I had to look it up . Is this orders of magnitudes worse than sportswriters choosing a champion, though? Arguable.

Well at least the AP hypothetically has geographic representation outside of one state

But no, regardless of how they seed the field…there is no doubt in my mind the new model is superior

 

[GophersInIowa]

If you’re going to use one logic train to put penn state over Ohio State, you should follow the same logic train to put Indiana over Ohio state, in my opinion.

And in my opinion that’s the entire problem with the committee. They use whatever metric they want to just make stuff up. And they’re simply not good at making the stuff up.

Georgia would’ve lost to at least 6 of the teams in the playoff and I would’ve picked probably everyone except SMU over them. Seeded 2

Texas has two losses and two wins over 8+ win teams all year
Seeded 3
Indiana has one loss and a win over one of those two teams Texas beat.
Seeded 10


It’s all “eye test” and then they make up a metric that suits their eye test.
there is no logic to the rankings
So if it’s all eye test putting Penn state over Ohio state was insane

There's multiple things you look at: number of losses, best wins, who they lost to, strength of schedule, etc. When looking at Penn St, Ohio St, and Indiana specifically, no team is going to have the advantage in every area. So in the Penn St/Ohio St comparison for instance, I think they determined having a stronger win was not enough to overcome having one more loss (and it being to a pretty average team). If Ohio St beats Michigan and then loses to Oregon again in the CC, I think they end up being ranked higher in the playoff rankings.

Georgia wasn't a top team but they didn't have a choice putting them at 2 since they were the 2nd best conference champ.

I can't find this for after the Conference Championships but I remember seeing it somewhere that the BCS formula had Penn St above Ohio St, and Ohio St above Indiana. I think the BCS was pretty close to what the committee picked in terms of rankings.

 

[Texan Gopher]

I like the 12 team playoff. That said, eliminate the bottom 4 and I think you could make it an 8 team playoff and it would be even better.

 

[Sparlimb]

I like the 12 team playoff. That said, eliminate the bottom 4 and I think you could make it an 8 team playoff and it would be even better.

Still think we're more likely to go to 16 teams versus 8...

 

[Some guy]

There's multiple things you look at: number of losses, best wins, who they lost to, strength of schedule, etc. When looking at Penn St, Ohio St, and Indiana specifically, no team is going to have the advantage in every area. So in the Penn St/Ohio St comparison for instance, I think they determined having a stronger win was not enough to overcome having one more loss (and it being to a pretty average team). If Ohio St beats Michigan and then loses to Oregon again in the CC, I think they end up being ranked higher in the playoff rankings.

Georgia wasn't a top team but they didn't have a choice putting them at 2 since they were the 2nd best conference champ.

I can't find this for after the Conference Championships but I remember seeing it somewhere that the BCS formula had Penn St above Ohio St, and Ohio St above Indiana. I think the BCS was pretty close to what the committee picked in terms of rankings.

The committee does whatever they want.
Georgia was second in the committee rankings: them being the 2 seed would’ve been the case in any format

The rankings were the issue
I would pick Arizona state over Georgia on a neutral field.

 

[Some guy]

I like the 12 team playoff. That said, eliminate the bottom 4 and I think you could make it an 8 team playoff and it would be even better.

If you eliminate the bottom 4 Arizona state misses the playoff for Tennessee . That would be dumb.

 

[disco]

There's not a huge difference between these teams. Penn St had a better win. They didn't get blown out by Ohio St like Indiana did. They played a P4 nonconference game where Indiana didn't. Indiana has beaten one P4 team that finished the season over .500 compared to three for Penn St.

Ohio St blowing out Indiana compared to Penn St losing to Ohio St by one score is probably a big reason.

I mean they kind have to make stuff up when humans are having to decide these things.

All the more reason to have all conference champs get auto bids. It means much of the field isn't determined by non-objective humans.

 

[WindyCityGopher]

Florida Senate declares Florida State as national champs with NCAA tournament cancelled​

Must be a Florida thing to declare a championship you didn’t actually earn, just like UCF.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Must be a Florida thing to declare a championship you didn’t actually earn, just like UCF.

Pompous elitism is a human condition, but maybe worse in God’s waiting room.

 

[GringaGopher]

There are so many insufferable Domers living in Chicago, so maybe I’m skewed because of that.

My nieces who both married guys from Chicago say the same thing but growing up it was geography for all MN teams n genetics for ND. I take 1 of my Nephews 2 a game in South Bend and mostly the tailgating feels like any other place except WI. . Go Irish !! . I don’t like OSU but OK with the Big winning the Natty.

 

[btowngopher]

As humans we are creative, curious, inquiring and gifted with inductive/deductive reasoning, far beyond our ground scraping ancestors, but we are generally awful at predicting outcomes of sporting events.

Vegas Always Knows? A Mathematical Deep Dive

People always say that "Vegas knows," but how does the spread really relate to the outcome of college football games?

www.theonlycolors.com

Personally I HATED the prior ways of electing a national champion . Nothing is perfect, true. If CFB decides to hand out regular season national achievement awards that’s fine, but the playoff champion will hold more weight in the eyes of most fans.

I don’t know why it should hold more weight when OSU didn’t play well enough this year to have won a championship in prior formats.

 

[Slim Tubby]

All the more reason to have all conference champs get auto bids. It means much of the field isn't determined by non-objective humans.

And it continues to promote the importance of Conference play.

Auto Bids can still be seeded in the Playoffs without guarantees of a BYE if other qualifying teams are more deserving.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

I don’t know why it should hold more weight when OSU didn’t play well enough this year to have won a championship in prior formats.

Which of the two games seems more fluky in hindsight? OSU didn’t look great pretty much all year but are ripping up the playoff field, when the chips are down. I think that’s part of the essence of sports, at least if not moreso than the wins and losses of a short regular season. They played well enough to qualify for the tourney. I think the poll ship has sailed and the tournament will be very popular with fans and conferences. Ok, maybe not the SEC and the circular reasoning on poll rankings that support them.