Not thrilled with Cosgrove

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GopherLady said:
the recruiting star system is perfect. It's a 100% indication of how good players will be, and coaching does not matter - it's all about rankings. I'd rather have 9 stars combined than a really good coordinator. Live and die by that, my friend. :rolleyes:
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What did coaches do 20 years ago before the internet and before there were stars to tell them who to recruit? I guess Joe Pa, Tom Osborne, Bobby Bowden had to use their own brain and recruit kids that fit their system and not worry about a star rating as they were confident they could coach the kid and develop him. Good thing Osborne didn't waste his time with walk-ons(he only had 27 go on the make the NFL, guys that would have probably not even been rated by the star system).
 

The only reason you Badgers want Cosgrove up here is that his DC performances got him run out of Madison, and you want the same thing to happen to us.

I don't normally say much about coaching hires, but if this rumor does come to pass, this is Brewster's first big mistake.

And if you recruiting nuts are willing to sacrifice a quality D for two recruits that are a crapshoot to begin with...
 

Talent is essential, and we see that with the top programs around the country. However, coaching is just as essential. Notre Dame has had a top 10 class, what, 4-5 years in a row? Where has that taken them?
 

If Cosgrove is hired, Maturi and Brewster should be fired on the spot.
 




parkinglotgopher said:
It'd be one thing if everyone was ready to "jump off the bridge" because this guy was young and inexperienced and we were hoping for a bigger hire. It's another thing to be gravely concerned that this guy was the co-pilot of one of the great program killings of the last 20 years.

Would you be ready to jump off the bridge if your favorite NFL team picked up Rod Marinelli to be its new head coach?
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I guess I would wait and see. You never know. I can't believe that after 40 years of futility there are people on this board who are up in arms because of a POSSIBLE hiring. Unbelievable.
 

good point

Darby11 said:
Brew has 2 years to produce. The last thing he needs is an inexperienced DC. Cosgrove at least has some recruiting connections and plenty of Big 10 experience on his resume. I am not sure Brew can do much better than Coz at this point without paying in neighborhood of $500,000. This there that type of money available for a DC?
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I may not be thrilled with the hire, but it does look like it could have some upside in experience and recruiting, and like Darby points out, who else are we going to get? Now that we'll be paying Dunbar's salary as well as adding 2 coordinators, there probably isn't a ton of money to throw around. And Cosgrove could bring a measure of stability to the program that a lot of people are asking for now. Along those lines, the story in the Strib (http://www.startribune.com/sports/g...8cyaiUjc8LDyiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiU) mentions the possibility of him sharing duties with someone else. Not sure where this rumor comes from, but that could help things. Have an old, well-known recruiter as the face of the defense, and another guy behind the scenes actually putting together the schemes. I'm not too hopeful, but if this is the case, it could work out ok.
 

RedPoo said:
I may not be thrilled with the hire, but it does look like it could have some upside in experience and recruiting, and like Darby points out, who else are we going to get? Now that we'll be paying Dunbar's salary as well as adding 2 coordinators, there probably isn't a ton of money to throw around. And Cosgrove could bring a measure of stability to the program that a lot of people are asking for now. Along those lines, the story in the Strib (http://www.startribune.com/sports/g...8cyaiUjc8LDyiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiU) mentions the possibility of him sharing duties with someone else. Not sure where this rumor comes from, but that could help things. Have an old, well-known recruiter as the face of the defense, and another guy behind the scenes actually putting together the schemes. I'm not too hopeful, but if this is the case, it could work out ok.
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That is the last thing this program needs now is two coaches trying to share the same job, this works long term in very few circumstances and if there is a difference of opinion between the two then who gets the final say, we say this with Dunbar and Davis already this season. It is not a formula for success which is why you don't see other teams doing very much.
 



If we had a DC whose teams averaged 21 ppg over 14 years in the Big Ten, there would be a bust ready to be on display on opening day at TCF. Cosgrove had 2good years at NU (18 & 21 ppg) and one OK. For the uniformed, his legacy is based on his last year at NU where the D was putrid.

14 years with Alvarez is pretty solid for me. They had a few years where they had a very solid D.

Its interesting that Whithers couldn't coach worth a crap here but his NC team allowed 21 ppg this Fall.

You win with good players who also make coaches look good.

Cosgrove will bring a lot of experience with him, mostly good, and is noted to be a solid recruiter.
 

Well, one thing is for certain - if Coz does get hired as DC, I'm sure we will all hear a loud reaction in TCF if Air Force or Cal go up and down the field on us a couple of times w/TDs.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
If we had a DC whose teams averaged 21 ppg over 14 years in the Big Ten, there would be a bust ready to be on display on opening day at TCF. Cosgrove had 2good years at NU (18 & 21 ppg) and one OK. For the uniformed, his legacy is based on his last year at NU where the D was putrid.

14 years with Alvarez is pretty solid for me. They had a few years where they had a very solid D.

Its interesting that Whithers couldn't coach worth a crap here but his NC team allowed 21 ppg this Fall.

You win with good players who also make coaches look good.

Cosgrove will bring a lot of experience with him, mostly good, and is noted to be a solid recruiter.
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he had no good years at Nebraska and if you want to settle for mediocrity go for it. Look at the national rankings of his defenses, they were terrible. And to say he didn't have talent at NU is ridiculous, he had 14 players on defense that are on NFL rosters as we speak and several starting in the NFL, he just cannot coach. Why don't you ask Alvarez if he thought so much of him why he didn't give Cosgrove the Head coaching job versus bringing in his replacement and giving him the job.

http://firecosgrove.com/bio.php

Also not included on the link was the 2007 defense which was ranked 112th in the country. That means his defenses for his career averaged in the 50 or 60 range out of 119 in the entire country, unacceptable in my opinion. If he is such a great recruiter than you have to draw the conclusion that he is a terrible coach.
 

TCF
Do you mean like Iowa did against Roof's vaunted D? And KU for that matter. Can you visualize how many TD's teams like Oklahoma or Texas would rack up against us?

Do you really believe that a new DC will produce a terrific D in 09? We need better players and a lot of them. Until that time comes, hang on to your hat and take a deep breath.
 



The scuttlebutt on the pay site is that Cosgrove may be the co-coordinator with a promoted Tim Cross....

Take it for what it's worth..
 

gopherguy05 said:
The scuttlebutt on the pay site is that Cosgrove may be the co-coordinator with a promoted Tim Cross....

Take it for what it's worth..
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Great just what we need a coordinator who has proven he cannot lead a defense sharing the role with another coach. This is not a formula for success, you cannot have two cooks in the kitchen trying to come to a consensus on a decision. Someone needs to be able to make the final call. This is a joke of a hire if Cosgrove is actually hired.
 

Bayfield,

I have no idea what our defense is going to be like in '09. I'm with you - it depends a lot on the players, no doubt.

I was just making the point that based upon the reaction on this board (five pages of comments in two days) and the level of reaction from several folks regarding the idea of Coz being hired ("If Coz hired, Maturi and Brewster should both be fired on the spot!"), it appears as though a lot of people are going to be pointing directly at the DC, right or wrong.

Trust me, after watching some of the guys we've had on defense over the years (Jamal Harris, as a recent example, are you kidding me?), I'm a big believer in talent.

And for the record, I am a Brewster guy. There were things I liked about Mason - I think he was a good coach who developed a lot of guys who were presumed to not have a lot of talent and turned them into All-Big Ten players. However, he rarely got the more talented guys and always seem to fall back on excuses for not getting the top local players. Game management was another big issue. Also, from the time the season finished, until the next season began, (w/the exception of spring practice), we never saw Mason or heard anything from him and it wasn't because he was wearing out the recruiting trail.

My hope now is that Brewster will continue to learn/develop as a Coach, and he and staff will be able to develop players with the success Mase had (in a number of cases).
 

Anybody want to revisit this topic? Besides a weekly blown assignment in the secondary and the inability to stop Clay for 2 Quarters and Cosgrove's tenure so far has looked a lot better then folks around here thought they'd be.

It's interesting to read though.
 

Agree

The defense has been fine. Could be better on third down but with the number of plays against us in our losses, you going to give up yards and points. The bottom line is the defense has been competent to this point.
 

You been skipping third downs if you think they've been fine. The Run D has been great but the pass D has been sub-par due to no pass rush and CB's playing to soft and giving up the easy slants. I don't mind giving up a big play now and then if it means getting a swat from someone other than a D-Lineman on a short pass and someone other than an LB on the deeper throws.
 



thailleagle said:
Still better then any Mason Defenses.......
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I'm going to post the season-to-date team defense stats here - would someone please go pull stats from the Mason era for comparative purposes?

Yes we know the '09 defense is on the field a lot. Yes some are arguing that a tougher schedule skews the stats. That's all fine and good. But there is still value in comparing stats year over year...

Brewster/Cosgrove '09 and Brewster/Roof '08
Scoring Defense-----------26 ppg - #75 (-5) **** 2008 – 25 ppg - #61
Rushing Defense ----------172 ypg - #89 (+7) **** 2008 – 143 ypg - #68
Passing Defense -----------230 ypg - #78 (-2) **** 2008 – 240 ypg - #94
Total Defense --------------402 ypg - #92 (-3) **** 2008 – 384 ypg - #81
3rd down conv allowed – 50% - #115 (na) **** 2008 – 39% - #61

FWIW, here is some info from the Ted Roof Wiki page - I have not verified that any of this data is accurate but it's interesting if true given the statistical difference between 2007 and 2008.

Under just one season of Roof's tutelage, the Gophers made tremendous improvements to give up 160 yards fewer passing per game and over 135 fewer overall when compared to the previous year's 119th ranked defense. Besides the nation's worst total defense, Roof also inherited a squad which had ranked 115th in pass defense, 114th in rushing defense and 109th in scoring defense in 2007. Roof's defense made strides throughout the season and finished ranked in the top-25 in both sacks[7] and tackles for loss[8] after being ranked 103rd[9] and 116th[10] the previous season. The stingy defense created 31 turnovers, second most in the Big Ten and 11th nationally. They were 7th in the nation causing fumbles (16), fueling the teams 16th rank in turnover margin. Overall, the scoring defense improved to 61st, rushing defense to 69th, total defense to 79th and pass defense to 93rd. This quick turn-around on defense contributed to the Golden Gophers improving its record from 1-11 to 7-6 and garnering an appearance in the 2008 Insight Bowl.
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Note that the final national rankings listed for Roof are only slightly different than those I've posted (I'm rounding - I think they are rounding a bit more generously perhaps :D ).

So let's test thailleagle's assertion - how does the Cosgrove led defense compare statistically to the Mason years' defenses?
 

Since Cosgrove's and Roof's coaching total defense stats are in the same general neighborhood, does this mean both experienced coaches are getting/got the most out of the talent, experience and depth available to them?

If this is the case, then a big step-up toward say the #50 range in national ranking is going to take a lot more talent and depth than currently available...continued high-level recruiting may be the only answer no matter how talented and experienced the defensive coaches.

Also, since Mason was recruiting on the "lower-tier" track and had very poor results on the defensive side...especially with 2H collapses due to talent and depth issues...I don't think the defensive stats from his regime will shed much perspective on premium coaching or where the Gs are heading on D.

In fact, one thing we are not seeing with Brew's Gs are the repeated 2H collapses so characteristic of Mase's era. As HC, Brew deserves a lot of credit for actively managing/directing his O/D coordinators to generate resilient 2H performance with intelligent in-game and 2H adjustments.
 

I've been fine with Cosgrove/Lee. There have been breakdowns and those, while often inexcusable, usually relate to a player in a given situation and not directly to how he's been coached. That's not to say these guys have been perfect, but I do see some progress.

In fairness to Mason, Brewster has really been recruiting the heck out of the defensive side of the ball. I still can't remember a Gopher LB being as far down the field and in the proper position as Cooper was last Saturday. And Cross appears to be a pretty good DL coach. Garrett Brown and Eric Small have both made strides and are more productive than the better athlete Anthony Montgomery was during Mason's tenure.
 

".Yes some are arguing that a tougher schedule skews the stats. Very true.

I'm to lazy to go and do as comparative study as done above, but here's a scoring study using Big Ten and Bowl games. That's what really counts doesn't it? Works out to 9 games for 2003,2004,2005 and 2006 (10 with Cal). 8 games in 2007 and 6 this year, 7 with Cal 9 with Syracuse, Air Force and California.

2003 - 26.0
2004 - 26.0
2005 - 31.4
2006 - 31.9 - 32.9
2007 - 38.0
2008 - 28
2009 - 27.8 - 29.8 - 26.8

With two Big Ten gams and a Bowl game coming it will be interesting to see what happens.

Regardless, it appears that we are far better of with Mr. Cosgrove and Mr. Lee then people were saying last January.
 

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