Next Gopher Head Coach

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EasyThere Pilgrim said:
College Basketball 101: you don't judge a coach's recruiting based on his worst recruits....and players are better as upperclassmen than as underclassmen.

Payne, JOJ, & Carrington seem to me like they will be good as upperclassmen.

Although I realize that most fans don't have the patience for that.
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Perhaps some of these players don't have the patience for staying at Mn. We shall see
 

formerlybis said:
FIFY. The talent here this year is still below average, but that really isn't likely to change. Even if they pulled in the McAndrew type of player, that doesn't really move the needle unless they have a better plan than "play with grit".
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The talent is better than it was last year but it’s still bottom tier B1G talent. Better coaching could probably make them mediocre, but the talent is still poor.
 

Gophers7633 said:
They are, but we stink again, that's the problem. The 2017 team was actually good. And yes, Gabe was a lot better than Carrington has been through 2 years. There's no agenda, it's called statistics. Also, it's okay to say Henley is bad. He's just not a P6 player, and neither is Betts.
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The 2017 team was the best Gophers team that we've had in 25 years. Using that as your only point of reference is why your expectations are all wrong. Good young core of players on this team.....yet the need for instant gratification has you convinced that blowing it up is the correct way forward. Some people just wanted Ben Johnson to fail right from the beginning.....and have convinced themselves that things aren't looking up.
 

stocker08 said:
The 2017 team was the best Gophers team that we've had in 25 years. Using that as your only point of reference is why your expectations are all wrong. Good young core of players on this team.....yet the need for instant gratification has you convinced that blowing it up is the correct way forward. Some people just wanted Ben Johnson to fail right from the beginning.....and have convinced themselves that things aren't looking up.
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Ben Johnson is the worst coach in basketball history. No amount of wishing or pretending will change that.

A good coach will blow it up and be more competitive next year than BJ will have been in 3.
 

stocker08 said:
The 2017 team was the best Gophers team that we've had in 25 years. Using that as your only point of reference is why your expectations are all wrong. Good young core of players on this team.....yet the need for instant gratification has you convinced that blowing it up is the correct way forward. Some people just wanted Ben Johnson to fail right from the beginning.....and have convinced themselves that things aren't looking up.
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Christ. Let me say it again. That team is NOT my expectation level. It was just an example of a young team that was successful.

I don't need instant gratification, all I'd like is for us to as good as what got Pitino fired.

And I never wanted Ben to fail, it would have been awesome if he was successful, because he's an alum, from the area, and probably wouldn't leave for a higher profile job if he was successful.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
Ben Johnson is the worst coach in basketball history. No amount of wishing or pretending will change that.

A good coach will blow it up and be more competitive next year than BJ will have been in 3.
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I can't remember.....were you one of the posters mad that Ben Johnson got the job because you thought he was an affirmative action hiring?

That would make this hatred make a little more sense. Just no rationality to be found. Can't wait for more next year.....when Johnson is still the coach.

Gophers7633 said:
Christ. Let me say it again. That team is NOT my expectation level. It was just an example of a young team that was successful.

I don't need instant gratification, all I'd like is for us to as good as what got Pitino fired.

And I never wanted Ben to fail, it would have been awesome if he was successful, because he's an alum, from the area, and probably wouldn't leave for a higher profile job if he was successful.
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Being ready to cut ties and restart halfway through year three is short-sighted. Especially when the core is young and has a bunch of potential. It's the kind of instant gratification that I typically hear from younger fans that have zero reference for where this program has been the past 25 years. You simply cannot pass judgement this early. But as I've said.....there were people (like GWG above) pissed about this hiring right off the bat....and were never going to support Johnson. Must push agenda.
 

formerlybis said:
The metrics for Payne and Carrington are the same or worse than last year. JOJ is better. And, only he and Garcia are currently in the top 50 B1G players, per T-rank (48th and 11th).

Hope is not a strategy. And potential is only helpful if it’s realized.
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I'm going on hope. Often times it takes some good fortune. Let's hope everyone returns next year. And let's hope that we somehow add a great transfer to push us over the top.
 

stocker08 said:
I can't remember.....were you one of the posters mad that Ben Johnson got the job because you thought he was an affirmative action hiring?

That would make this hatred make a little more sense. Just no rationality to be found. Can't wait for more next year.....when Johnson is still the coach.



Being ready to cut ties and restart halfway through year three is short-sighted. Especially when the core is young and has a bunch of potential. It's the kind of instant gratification that I typically hear from younger fans that have zero reference for where this program has been the past 25 years. You simply cannot pass judgement this early. But as I've said.....there were people (like GWG above) pissed about this hiring right off the bat....and were never going to support Johnson. Must push agenda.
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Trust me, I understand what kind of program we are. I've been a fan my entire life. I don't expect top 25 teams year in and year out. Some of my favorite team's didn't even make the tournament(2008 for example).

I also don't think it's a given that it would be a complete restart, just because it was with Ben, who couldn't get anyone of note to stay. There are just a bunch of better, more accomplished coaches out there.

If we finish strong, I'd be okay giving him another year, I just don't think there's a lot of hope we do. We kind of are what we are at this point.
 




Gophers7633 said:
Trust me, I understand what kind of program we are. I've been a fan my entire life. I don't expect top 25 teams year in and year out. Some of my favorite team's didn't even make the tournament(2008 for example).

I also don't think it's a given that it would be a complete restart, just because it was with Ben, who couldn't get anyone of note to stay. There are just a bunch of better, more accomplished coaches out there.

If we finish strong, I'd be okay giving him another year, I just don't think there's a lot of hope we do. We kind of are what we are at this point.
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There was little of note for Ben to hold onto. He leaves.....probably looking at a mass exodus and another complete rebuild. And people want that halfway through year three.....even with an improving team and a bunch of young talent.....likely all to return (with the exception of Garcia most likely). Don't get that at all. But again....lots of people who care more about being right about Johnson than the team itself.
 

stocker08 said:
There was little of note for Ben to hold onto. He leaves.....probably looking at a mass exodus and another complete rebuild. And people want that halfway through year three.....even with an improving team and a bunch of young talent.....likely all to return (with the exception of Garcia most likely). Don't get that at all. But again....lots of people who care more about being right about Johnson than the team itself.
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That's because you think we're in a better spot than I do. We are improved, no doubt, but we still have a long way to go. Going from a team ranked in the 90's, to being good is a huge leap, that teams rarely make, even with returning a bunch. Nebraska is probably the best example of a team doing it this year, but they've added 2 really good transfers.
 

Gophers7633 said:
That's because you think we're in a better spot than I do. We are improved, no doubt, but we still have a long way to go. Going from a team ranked in the 90's, to being good is a huge leap, that teams rarely make, even with returning a bunch. Nebraska is probably the best example of a team doing it this year, but they've added 2 really good transfers.
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I like the players Johnson has brought in out of high school over the past few years and think they could develop into a good team. First HS class are only sophomores. I want to see what they develop into and deciding they aren't good enough as they are only sophomores screams instant gratification. Zero patience.
 

stocker08 said:
I like the players Johnson has brought in out of high school over the past few years and think they could develop into a good team. First HS class are only sophomores. I want to see what they develop into and deciding they aren't good enough as they are only sophomores screams instant gratification. Zero patience.
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That's why I said if we finish strong, give him another year. I don't think it'll happen, but I could be wrong.
 



stocker08 said:
I like the players Johnson has brought in out of high school over the past few years and think they could develop into a good team. First HS class are only sophomores. I want to see what they develop into and deciding they aren't good enough as they are only sophomores screams instant gratification. Zero patience.
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Lower the floor so far that the tiniest bit of hope has people thinking HCBJ should be kept 🤔...
 

stocker08 said:
I can't remember.....were you one of the posters mad that Ben Johnson got the job because you thought he was an affirmative action hiring?

That would make this hatred make a little more sense. Just no rationality to be found. Can't wait for more next year.....when Johnson is still the coach.



Being ready to cut ties and restart halfway through year three is short-sighted. Especially when the core is young and has a bunch of potential. It's the kind of instant gratification that I typically hear from younger fans that have zero reference for where this program has been the past 25 years. You simply cannot pass judgement this early. But as I've said.....there were people (like GWG above) pissed about this hiring right off the bat....and were never going to support Johnson. Must push agenda.
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I’m sure there are no younger fans left at this point to hear from. What utter bullshit.
 
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stocker08 said:
There was little of note for Ben to hold onto. He leaves.....probably looking at a mass exodus and another complete rebuild. And people want that halfway through year three.....even with an improving team and a bunch of young talent.....likely all to return (with the exception of Garcia most likely). Don't get that at all. But again....lots of people who care more about being right about Johnson than the team itself.
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I shouldn't do this as you've just gone to far down the rabbit hole in this thread and I'm not looking to fight. But here we go. An honest question. You say above that our whole team (minus DG) is likely to return. What makes you think that outside of digging your heels in that CBJ is the best coach ever.

You don't know jack squat more than anyone else, maybe the all love him or maybe for all we know 9 guys could've told Coyle if CBJ is the coach they are out. And listen this isn't all about CBJ, it's just college sports in 2024, almost no one stays 4 years. Let's break it down:

DG-seems likely to want to be done with CBB
PP: still not starting, maybe he's fine with that, maybe he's super annoyed
JOJ: starts then gets benched for long stretches, maybe he's over that
Mitchell: benched some games, never know. And don't give me the can't transfer twice, you can its not hard
Christie: I'm sure is getting offers from other schools already
Carrington: already took a leave, not getting a ton of time, who knows
Betts/ Keinys: never play easy to see them leave.

I'm saying all this to demonstrate that sure in theory we could bring back a lot, but we might also lose 6 guys who knows. You seem to be hitching all of your CBJ love on a fully returning roster, I don't know why you think that is a certainty.
 

stocker08 said:
There was little of note for Ben to hold onto. He leaves.....probably looking at a mass exodus and another complete rebuild. And people want that halfway through year three.....even with an improving team and a bunch of young talent.....likely all to return (with the exception of Garcia most likely). Don't get that at all. But again....lots of people who care more about being right about Johnson than the team itself.
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Whenever a coach leaves there will be a lot of transfers. That's life in 2024. That can't be a reason to delay the inevitable. What is the bar been needs to hit next year if he stays? NCAAs? That's incredibly unlikely. But if it's not that, then what are we doing?
 

leib0039 said:
I shouldn't do this as you've just gone to far down the rabbit hole in this thread and I'm not looking to fight. But here we go. An honest question. You say above that our whole team (minus DG) is likely to return. What makes you think that outside of digging your heels in that CBJ is the best coach ever.

You don't know jack squat more than anyone else, maybe the all love him or maybe for all we know 9 guys could've told Coyle if CBJ is the coach they are out. And listen this isn't all about CBJ, it's just college sports in 2024, almost no one stays 4 years. Let's break it down:

DG-seems likely to want to be done with CBB
PP: still not starting, maybe he's fine with that, maybe he's super annoyed
JOJ: starts then gets benched for long stretches, maybe he's over that
Mitchell: benched some games, never know. And don't give me the can't transfer twice, you can its not hard
Christie: I'm sure is getting offers from other schools already
Carrington: already took a leave, not getting a ton of time, who knows
Betts/ Keinys: never play easy to see them leave.

I'm saying all this to demonstrate that sure in theory we could bring back a lot, but we might also lose 6 guys who knows. You seem to be hitching all of your CBJ love on a fully returning roster, I don't know why you think that is a certainty.
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To put %'s of returning on the top 8:

-Hawkins: 70%. He has another year but could want to move on.
-Mitchell: 60%. He also has another year but Ben has yanked him quick several times and there seems to be friction.
Christie: 80%. Surely he will have power 5 offers if he wants to leave.
JOJ: 95%.
Garcia: 50%. He seems like he's in the same place Battle was a year ago, but probably has better pro options.

Payne: 80%. He can't be thrilled not staring and will have options. But he seems like he's a MN kid that's on board.
Carrington: 80%. Would be higher but hard to know his mindset.
Fox/Ihnen: 50%. Might want to be done with basketball finally.

Bottom line, it's pretty likely at least 2 of the top 9 leave.
 

leib0039 said:
I shouldn't do this as you've just gone to far down the rabbit hole in this thread and I'm not looking to fight. But here we go. An honest question. You say above that our whole team (minus DG) is likely to return. What makes you think that outside of digging your heels in that CBJ is the best coach ever.

You don't know jack squat more than anyone else, maybe the all love him or maybe for all we know 9 guys could've told Coyle if CBJ is the coach they are out. And listen this isn't all about CBJ, it's just college sports in 2024, almost no one stays 4 years. Let's break it down:

DG-seems likely to want to be done with CBB
PP: still not starting, maybe he's fine with that, maybe he's super annoyed
JOJ: starts then gets benched for long stretches, maybe he's over that
Mitchell: benched some games, never know. And don't give me the can't transfer twice, you can its not hard
Christie: I'm sure is getting offers from other schools already
Carrington: already took a leave, not getting a ton of time, who knows
Betts/ Keinys: never play easy to see them leave.

I'm saying all this to demonstrate that sure in theory we could bring back a lot, but we might also lose 6 guys who knows. You seem to be hitching all of your CBJ love on a fully returning roster, I don't know why you think that is a certainty.
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I stopped reading at the bolded part. Try again.
 

Gophers7633 said:
I'm not. And yeah, you'd like to think they'd be better as upperclassmen, but outside of JOJ, Payne and Carrington haven't exactly looked all that better than last year IMO.

How long should we have to wait to be competent then? In year 5, or 6? That's pretty absurd to me.
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builtbadgers always said that you know who you have after three years. If your coach hasn't made a splash--made a NCAA run or wowed you in some other ways--in the first three years, it's not going to radically change thereafter. Not sure about that myself, but I do feel strongly about one thing: after this amount of time, you know whether you have the wow factor or not. In Ames, for example, their coach wowed them from the get go. Rule of thumb: if your coach isn't wowing you, especially after the better part of three seasons, you picked the wrong coach. The only wow factor we've had here has been the almost unbelievable number of losses.
 

stocker08 said:
I like the players Johnson has brought in out of high school over the past few years and think they could develop into a good team. First HS class are only sophomores. I want to see what they develop into and deciding they aren't good enough as they are only sophomores screams instant gratification. Zero patience.
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One can not develop talent when one doesn't know how to coach. Coaching matters, the current HC for the Gopher men's team needs another 10-15 years of seasoning under a competent coach.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
I'm going on hope. Often times it takes some good fortune. Let's hope everyone returns next year. And let's hope that we somehow add a great transfer to push us over the top.
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You better hope Johnson learns how to coach at this level.

Indiana has maybe the most talented team in this league this year, at least top 4. Michigan had two guys declare for the NBA last year, neither of whom were named Hunter Dickinson.

Talent alone ain't getting you where you hope to get.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I am a huge fan of John Tauer but it's a legit question. I have absolutely no question about his Xs and Os and his ability to motivate people.

I do think there is a fair question about the reach of his recruiting. It's starting to expand outside of Minnesota and Wiscsonsin. His most recent class has a guy from Oregon and another guy from Washington - I have no idea if they'll turn out.

If Tauer is interested, which I'm not sure he would be, that would be the biggest question mark. Can he recruit outside of MN/WI?
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If one is really good at recruiting MN and WI…do you have to recruit outside of those states?
 

stocker08 said:
I can't remember.....were you one of the posters mad that Ben Johnson got the job because you thought he was an affirmative action hiring?

That would make this hatred make a little more sense. Just no rationality to be found. Can't wait for more next year.....when Johnson is still the coach.



Being ready to cut ties and restart halfway through year three is short-sighted. Especially when the core is young and has a bunch of potential. It's the kind of instant gratification that I typically hear from younger fans that have zero reference for where this program has been the past 25 years. You simply cannot pass judgement this early. But as I've said.....there were people (like GWG above) pissed about this hiring right off the bat....and were never going to support Johnson. Must push agenda.
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I wasn't one of those fans (in fact I was on here arguing against those fans) and I still think your take stinks. So we have to give a bad coach more time because of previous bad seasons by different coaches? We can't just call a spade a spade when we see one in our face? Jesus please tell me you aren't in charge of a company or even a department because that is just pure unadult-rated crap.

I was at the U when the scandal hit, I know where this program has been and what came after. That doesn't mean we have to grade a pretty mediocre coach on a curve. And I want Ben to succeed as much as anyone. But if he can't even make an NIT in year 3 (and that is iffy right now) then we as fans have every right to want him replaced. You can pretend this is some sort of impatience but that is just ridiculous.

Firing him in season would be dumb but if we are bottom 4 in conference and sitting at home in March what has he done to earn another year? It isn't like he has a long resume, lots of proof in the pudding for everyone to fall back on and say "hey he did it before he can do it again!". No this is a young guy with no real experience that was a reach for the position who is struggling to stay relevant even in a very underperforming Big Ten. It sucks, but it is still the truth. I get that you want to believe he can be like a Clem Haskins and develop teams so that every few years they can build towards a run but he does not appear to be that guy.
 



Bad Gopher said:
builtbadgers always said that you know who you have after three years. If your coach hasn't made a splash--made a NCAA run or wowed you in some other ways--in the first three years, it's not going to radically change thereafter. Not sure about that myself, but I do feel strongly about one thing: after this amount of time, you know whether you have the wow factor or not. In Ames, for example, their coach wowed them from the get go. Rule of thumb: if your coach isn't wowing you, especially after the better part of three seasons, you picked the wrong coach. The only wow factor we've had here has been the almost unbelievable number of losses.
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Whatever happened to built?
 



BarnBurner said:
Whatever happened to built?
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I genuinely miss him. I suspect he took too much grief here and just said fuck it. Also, he was a big booster of Coach Johnson and is probably sheepish about it--similar to how Coach Thorson is pretty active on Twitter when the team is playing alright but disappears when they go in the tank.

I'd guess he still reads the forum, but I could be wrong.
 

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