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GopherWeatherGuy said:
Success? They are all average to below average B1G basketball players right now. If they were a success, the Gophers would be a lot better.

None of them are in the same stratosphere as Mason, Murphy, Coffey, Oturu, or even Mashburn Jr.
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Your opinions were already bad......now you just look like a joke. Stick to the weather.
 



007gopherfan said:
Greg McDermott and ESPN top 100 recruit Jackson McAndrew 6'9" PF from Wayzata can come with him too! Get it done Coyle!
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McDermott is gonna leave for somewhere but he knows his value and it’s gonna be for a top program not the gophers unfortunately.
 


stocker08 said:
Ah.....so you don't know the difference between an opinion and a fact either. This makes sense considering all the bad takes.
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Yet you still have no argument against what I said.

I can't wait for a new head coach next year that can actually recruit!
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I can't wait for a new head coach next year that can actually recruit!
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Oh no. You think Ben Johnson is going to be gone after this year? Add it to the ever growing list of bad takes. Getting embarrassing for you now.
 





GopherWeatherGuy said:
Yet you still have no argument against what I said.

I can't wait for a new head coach next year that can actually recruit coach!
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FIFY. The talent here this year is still below average, but that really isn't likely to change. Even if they pulled in the McAndrew type of player, that doesn't really move the needle unless they have a better plan than "play with grit".
 

stocker08 said:
How so? Unless something changes.....so far Ben Johnson's first full high school class is looking like a success with Payne, JOJ, and Carrington all looking competent. Henley is hard to judge because he transferred out. Betts is the only one looking like a miss.

If you are going to flail wildly in your hatred towards Johnson....at least try a bit harder than this.
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Don't you think if it was a success, we'd be better than we are? In the grand scheme of things, they've been okay, but there are a bunch of sophomores that have performed better than them in the B1G. Also, Henley isn't hard to judge, he's terrible.
 



Gophers7633 said:
Don't you think if it was a success, we'd be better than we are? In the grand scheme of things, they've been okay, but there are a bunch of sophomores that have performed better than them in the B1G. Also, Henley isn't hard to judge, he's terrible.
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I think his high school recruits are very good. He’s just swung and missed in the transfer portal, which is just as big of a deal. Garcia seems like there should be an asterisk next to it considering if he didn’t have family health problems (if I remember right), he’d probably not be here.

He needs GOOD veterans that can take over a game and not make mistakes. I like Hawkins and Mitchell, and I think they’ll perform better next year with big 10 experience under their belts. But he still needs to recruit better in the transfer portal.
 

GoldenMAV30266 said:
I think his high school recruits are very good. He’s just swung and missed in the transfer portal, which is just as big of a deal. Garcia seems like there should be an asterisk next to it considering if he didn’t have family health problems (if I remember right), he’d probably not be here.

He needs GOOD veterans that can take over a game and not make mistakes. I like Hawkins and Mitchell, and I think they’ll perform better next year with big 10 experience under their belts. But he still needs to recruit better in the transfer portal.
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I'm not sure how you could say they are very good. The 2022 class has had two bad misses in Henley and Betts, and the core of that class hasn't led us to being any good.

I would agree, Ben needs to do a lot better in the portal.
 


Spaulding!No! said:
Wait……you are certain Ben is here next year? To the point of mockery? You changed man.
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I think the team would have to fall apart in a big way. They are good enough to compete game in and game out.

Gophers7633 said:
Don't you think if it was a success, we'd be better than we are? In the grand scheme of things, they've been okay, but there are a bunch of sophomores that have performed better than them in the B1G. Also, Henley isn't hard to judge, he's terrible.
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How long have you been watching college sports? You have very unrealistic expectations for our players.
 

stocker08 said:
I think the team would have to fall apart in a big way. They are good enough to compete game in and game out.



How long have you been watching college sports? You have very unrealistic expectations for our players.
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I've been watching forever. I don't have unrealistic expectations. My expectation level has been pretty modest, which is to on par or better than the team that got Pitino fired. That bar is pretty low if you ask me. The 2017 team had 3 of the top 4 scorers who were FR or SO.

So again, don't you think if it was a success we'd be better than we are?
 

Gophers7633 said:
I've been watching forever. I don't have unrealistic expectations. My expectation level has been pretty modest, which is to on par or better than the team that got Pitino fired. That bar is pretty low if you ask me. The 2017 team had 3 of the top 4 scorers who were FR or SO.

So again, don't you think if it was a success we'd be better than we are?
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Yes. Your expectations are not realistic. 2016-2017 was probably the best team the Gophers have had in 25 years. So this sophomore class isn't going to be successful because this team isn't as good as the 2017 team? That's ridiculous.

Payne and JOJ are good and getting better. Carrington looks like a Kalascheur clone. Henley could have been good but decided to go join a terrible DePaul team. Betts doesn't play, but he's only 18.
 

I think there's a direct comparison with Ben to Chambers taking over at PSU and I worry about the same sort of path for Ben.

Chambers brought in a recruiting class of guys (Mainly PA area guys I believe?) that took a full 4 years to develop. Maybe that was even after the first couple years? I don't totally remember.

I feel like we should expect more at Minnesota than Penn State as far as basketball goes.

Here are Chambers results below from his time at PSU:

I can't imagine we want to accept this at the U. For what it's worth, I think Ben will actually do better than this if he does stay around. But will Ben ever get us in the Dance? Idk. You can't keep a coach for more than 4 years at Minnesota if we make ZERO NCAA tournaments. Period.

If Ben stayed for this long at Minnesota, I wouldn't be surprised if results were pretty similar to these.

2011–12Penn State12–204–14T–11th
2012–13Penn State10–212–1612th
2013–14Penn State16–186–12T–10thCBI quarterfinal
2014–15Penn State18–164–1413th
2015–16Penn State16–167–1110th
2016–17Penn State15–186–12T–12th
2017–18Penn State26–139–9T–6thNIT champion
2018–19Penn State14–187–13T–10th
2019–20Penn State21–1011–9T–5th
 

Gophers7633 said:
I'm not sure how you could say they are very good. The 2022 class has had two bad misses in Henley and Betts, and the core of that class hasn't led us to being any good.

I would agree, Ben needs to do a lot better in the portal.
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College Basketball 101: you don't judge a coach's recruiting based on his worst recruits....and players are better as upperclassmen than as underclassmen.

Payne, JOJ, & Carrington seem to me like they will be good as upperclassmen.

Although I realize that most fans don't have the patience for that.
 

stocker08 said:
Yes. Your expectations are not realistic. 2016-2017 was probably the best team the Gophers have had in 25 years. So this sophomore class isn't going to be successful because this team isn't as good as the 2017 team? That's ridiculous.

Payne and JOJ are good and getting better. Carrington looks like a Kalascheur clone. Henley could have been good but decided to go join a terrible DePaul team. Betts doesn't play, but he's only 18.
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No it doesn't have to be as good as the 2017 team(I just said what my expectation level was), that was just an example of team that got good contributions from SO and FR.

This SO class hasn't been successful because they haven't been successful(maybe they will be, maybe they won't, who knows) as of now. I'm not sure how Carrington is a Gabe clone? Gabe was a lot better. Especially as a FR and SO. Henley is not good. He doesn't even start on one of the worst teams in the country. And Betts doesn't play for good reason.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
College Basketball 101: you don't judge a coach's recruiting based on his worst recruits....and players are better as upperclassmen than as underclassmen.

Payne, JOJ, & Carrington seem to me like they will be good as upperclassmen.

Although I realize that most fans don't have the patience for that.
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I'm not. And yeah, you'd like to think they'd be better as upperclassmen, but outside of JOJ, Payne and Carrington haven't exactly looked all that better than last year IMO.

How long should we have to wait to be competent then? In year 5, or 6? That's pretty absurd to me.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
College Basketball 101: you don't judge a coach's recruiting based on his worst recruits....and players are better as upperclassmen than as underclassmen.

Payne, JOJ, & Carrington seem to me like they will be good as upperclassmen.

Although I realize that most fans don't have the patience for that.
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Well, with the transfer portal, there's no guarantee they'll still be here. Because of the portal and transfer open house, I've gone from build a team the old way ( developing your underclassman) to just get the best transfers and win now.
 

The barn is basically dead, gopher hoops has been basically dead. There are a few people on this board who care and that's it.

Barely anyone notices.

This was true of the Wolves a few years back. The arena was dead, you couldn't give tickets away. They now have a good product on the court and you can't find a ticket.

That should be the goal of the gophers. Just throwing it out there.
 

Gophers7633 said:
No it doesn't have to be as good as the 2017 team(I just said what my expectation level was), that was just an example of team that got good contributions from SO and FR.

This SO class hasn't been successful because they haven't been successful(maybe they will be, maybe they won't, who knows) as of now. I'm not sure how Carrington is a Gabe clone? Gabe was a lot better. Especially as a FR and SO. Henley is not good. He doesn't even start on one of the worst teams in the country. And Betts doesn't play for good reason.
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So this team isn't getting good contributions from the sophomores? That's nonsense. Even ignoring that Henley leaving makes for incomplete data.....and Betts is only 18.....this is looking like a good class. Payne and JOJ are good and getting better. No.....Gabe was not a lot better than Carrington. Skewed memory to fit an agenda.
 


skiumah1 said:
I think there's a direct comparison with Ben to Chambers taking over at PSU and I worry about the same sort of path for Ben.

Chambers brought in a recruiting class of guys (Mainly PA area guys I believe?) that took a full 4 years to develop. Maybe that was even after the first couple years? I don't totally remember.

I feel like we should expect more at Minnesota than Penn State as far as basketball goes.

Here are Chambers results below from his time at PSU:

I can't imagine we want to accept this at the U. For what it's worth, I think Ben will actually do better than this if he does stay around. But will Ben ever get us in the Dance? Idk. You can't keep a coach for more than 4 years at Minnesota if we make ZERO NCAA tournaments. Period.

If Ben stayed for this long at Minnesota, I wouldn't be surprised if results were pretty similar to these.

2011–12Penn State12–204–14T–11th
2012–13Penn State10–212–1612th
2013–14Penn State16–186–12T–10thCBI quarterfinal
2014–15Penn State18–164–1413th
2015–16Penn State16–167–1110th
2016–17Penn State15–186–12T–12th
2017–18Penn State26–139–9T–6thNIT champion
2018–19Penn State14–187–13T–10th
2019–20Penn State21–1011–9T–5th
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The 2015 and 2016 classes were heavy Philadelphia and DMV(4/5 hour drive to Happy Valley). PSU got unlucky that Carr entered the draft after his SO year, or they could have been really good in 2019 and 2020(which they were anyway).
 

stocker08 said:
So this team isn't getting good contributions from the sophomores? That's nonsense. Even ignoring that Henley leaving makes for incomplete data.....and Betts is only 18.....this is looking like a good class. Payne and JOJ are good and getting better. No.....Gabe was not a lot better than Carrington. Skewed memory to fit an agenda.
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They are, but we stink again, that's the problem. The 2017 team was actually good. And yes, Gabe was a lot better than Carrington has been through 2 years. There's no agenda, it's called statistics. Also, it's okay to say Henley is bad. He's just not a P6 player, and neither is Betts.
 

formerlybis said:
The metrics for Payne and Carrington are the same or worse than last year. JOJ is better. And, only he and Garcia are currently in the top 50 B1G players, per T-rank (48th and 11th).

Hope is not a strategy. And potential is only helpful if it’s realized.
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Yeah, that's part of the issue. I've liked JOJ's leap this year(wish he'd play more). JOJ and Christie for the next 2 years after this is a great positive.
 

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