Myron chat: Former, current players agree Tubby is not the easiest coach to play for

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Devoe Joseph was on the all Big Ten Tournament team. To say he wasn't instrumental in getting this team to the NCAA tournament is simply hogwash. Without him, they do not go. Without Nolen they went anyway. Let's see if we do this year without Joseph. I have my doubts.
 


minngg said:
Devoe Joseph was on the all Big Ten Tournament team. To say he wasn't instrumental in getting this team to the NCAA tournament is simply hogwash. Without him, they do not go. Without Nolen they went anyway. Let's see if we do this year without Joseph. I have my doubts.
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Does this team get Damian and LW back? You know, the two best players on last year's team?

Was The Quitter also instrumental in:
- 2 losses to a 7-11 Michigan team?
- Losing to a 7-11 NU team?
- Losing to a 4-14 IU team?

Or was the tourney run the only part of the season that The Quitter was instrumental in? Your selective memory is what is hogwash.
 

GoGoGophers said:
Does this team get Damian and LW back? You know, the two best players on last year's team?

Was The Quitter also instrumental in:
- 2 losses to a 7-11 Michigan team?
- Losing to a 7-11 NU team?
- Losing to a 4-14 IU team?

Or was the tourney run the only part of the season that The Quitter was instrumental in? Your selective memory is what is hogwash.
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If you think LW was one of the 2 best players on the team last year, you are insane. The Indiana game we lost last year, Nolen started and Verdell Jones ate him up. Joseph score 19 points with 8-14 shooting. Later in the year, without Nolen, MN beat IN 81-58.

The best player on the team this year is Trevor Mbakwe. Did we have him last year? Joseph was on the all Big Ten Tournament team. Teams win games and lose games. Joseph had a better winning percentage than Nolen in Big Ten games. MN beat a final four team and Purdue on a neutral floor under Devoe's leadership.Joseph was a main reason we made the tournament and if you can't admit that I give up. Go call someone else names
 



Count me in the "insane" camp. I thought our best two players last year were Damian Johnson & Lawrence Westbrook. Just an opinion.

If you asked me right now who the Gophers' best two players have been (through 15 games), without hesitation I'd answer Trevor Mbakwe & Blake Hoffarber. At the end of the season I might have a different answer.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Count me in the "insane" camp. I thought our best two players last year were Damian Johnson & Lawrence Westbrook. Just an opinion.

If you asked me right now who the Gophers' best two players have been (through 15 games), without hesitation I'd answer Trevor Mbakwe & Blake Hoffarber. At the end of the season I might have a different answer.
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The one thing I will say for LW is that he could shoot off the dribble. Something that is terribly lacking on this years squad.
 

Coach K
Roy Williams
Gary Williams
Rick Pitino

All National Championship coaches. All tough as hell to play for if you get in their doghouse. Heck, they're tough as nails almost all of the time. Other than winning a NC, they have one more obvious thing in common with Tubby: they're borderline drill sargents. They run things. Not the players. That's the way it should be. If you can't play for Tubby, you can't play for one of those 4 coaches above and odds are you'll be playing on a losing team.

I'm thinking Devoe has ALOT in common with Will Avery, Edgar Sosa, John Gilchrist, the Wear Twins. All were selfish, petulant players that couldn't play for the majority of HOF coaches in the NCAA without making a scene.
 

Pewterschmidt said:
Coach K
Roy Williams
Gary Williams
Rick Pitino

All National Championship coaches. All tough as hell to play for if you get in their doghouse. Heck, they're tough as nails almost all of the time. Other than winning a NC, they have one more obvious thing in common with Tubby: they're borderline drill sargents. They run things. Not the players. That's the way it should be. If you can't play for Tubby, you can't play for one of those 4 coaches above and odds are you'll be playing on a losing team.

I'm thinking Devoe has ALOT in common with Will Avery, Edgar Sosa, John Gilchrist, the Wear Twins. All were selfish, petulant players that couldn't play for the majority of HOF coaches in the NCAA without making a scene.
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Coach K (If I recall correctly) is from West Point ... doesn't get much more "old school" than that.
 




minngg said:
20 Minutes a game is not enough for a kid that started the previous year and did very well because another kid (now starting ahead of him) couldn't cut it in class. Think about how Devoe felt when he contributed 14 pts, 7 assists, with just one turnover in 21 minutes while Nolen goes 0-6, scores 0 points and adds 2 assists in 22 in the Wisconsin game. We lose the WI game and playing Devoe more could have made the difference. Then we play MSU and Nolen plays 30 mins and scores 4 pts with 4 TO's and 3 assists. Devoe plays 21 minutes and scores 5 pts with 2 TO's and 1 assist. We lose another close game.

Don't you think it is a possiblity that Devoe, after starting the previous year and doing very well, felt that Tubby was holding whatever he did earlier against him and that he wasn't getting a fair shake so he transferred? I am not saying that this is the right move for Devoe, but to say it is grades or pettiness on his part is speculation. We have no idea. Nolen let the team down in 2009, Devoe did this year, but it seemed Al was given the starting job back without any grudge by Tubby. Again, we have no idea. Let's stop the grades and drug stuff. There are other reasons kids leave.
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So 1 game (MSU) should be the deciding factor that Tubby wasn't going to give him a fair shake? Tubby has shown that he will stick by player's if they show the willingness to improve the situation that got them in trouble. He repeatedly tried helping Royce through his issues, meeting with him even when he had left the University. Al worked hard to correct his mis-take and Tubby stuck by him as he worked through his issues. Trevor has talked about how grateful he was for Tubby through his whole process. We have no idea what Devoe was doing to correct his mistake, but Tubby certainly has shown a willingness to stick by players that want to to be rectified.
 

Speaking as a coach and former college player, there are only a couple of "valid" reasons for leaving a team in the middle of the season and they involve abuse from the coach or teammates, and/or significant family issues. Anything else is just plain quitting... not just on the coach, but most importantly on your teammates and friends. Don't you think the rest of the team feels abandoned by a friend?

Hopefully the players now take the "F*#! him, we'll do it without him!" attitude and get mentally tougher. This will require RS3 to not mope around the floor looking like someone just shot his dog. Nolen had that look in the first half against IU too, but worked through it and showed a lot of toughness in the second half because he knows that the entire team follows his lead. Without senior leadership, some may blame Tubby and stop listening to him. Hopefully this is addition by subtraction.

I'm reminded of a Bobby Knight (i think) quote that "the key to coaching is keeping those who don't like you away from those that are undecided." If all the players like Tubby all the time, then he isn't doing his job.
 

PavedWithGold said:
Speaking as a coach and former college player, there are only a couple of "valid" reasons for leaving a team in the middle of the season and they involve abuse from the coach or teammates, and/or significant family issues. Anything else is just plain quitting... not just on the coach, but most importantly on your teammates and friends. Don't you think the rest of the team feels abandoned by a friend?

Hopefully the players now take the (right) attitude and get mentally tougher. This will require RS3 to not mope around the floor looking like someone just shot his dog. Nolen had that look in the first half against IU too, but worked through it and showed a lot of toughness in the second half because he knows that the entire team follows his lead. Without senior leadership, some may blame Tubby and stop listening to him. Hopefully this is addition by subtraction.

I'm reminded of a Bobby Knight (i think) quote that "the key to coaching is keeping those who don't like you away from those that are undecided." If all the players like Tubby all the time, then he isn't doing his job.
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Bingo.
 




Regardless of whether Devoe quit (which it is hard to argue against that) or not, the school he will transfer to has to accept him accordingly and that includes how he has behaved here at the UM. He will be there problem now.
 

calminnfan said:
Regardless of whether Devoe quit (which it is hard to argue against that) or not, the school he will transfer to has to accept him accordingly and that includes how he has behaved here at the UM. He will be there problem now.
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Devoe won't have much leverage at his new school. He might (or might not) learn a very tough lesson out of all this.....
 

BleedGopher said:
Some interesting comments from Myron in his chat today:

Myron P. Medcalf:
First ... When I spoke to Connie Joseph, Devoe's mother, Monday ... she told me things about her son's situation that were off the record. I'm going to honor that. The reason I haven't discussed the "reasons" for Joseph's move is because of my promise to Devoe's mom.
Thursday January 6, 2011 12:03 Myron P. Medcalf
12:03

Thursday January 6, 2011 12:03
12:05


Myron P. Medcalf:
I can say, however, that I don't believe this is a simple case of "a quitter" as some have pegged Devoe. Former and current players agree that Tubby is not the easiest coach to play for. He's old school. And every player doesn't respond to that style.

Devoe is one of four players who've transferred in less than a year. Others have considered it. Trust me.

I'm not saying it's all on Tubby. But his style is not a good fit for every player. And I think that had something to do with Devoe's situation.

Thursday January 6, 2011 12:05 Myron P. Medcalf
12:08


Myron P. Medcalf:
On the flip side, Devoe was suspended for six games at the start of the season for violating team rules. He didn't start the year on a good note.

Sources close to the team say he skipped practice and wouldn't answer his phone when coaches tried to contact him over the weekend.

I've been told by a source close to the program that "it wasn't the first time" that an incident like that involving Devoe occurred.

So I definitely think it was a two-way street. And like Devoe's mom told me ... "it wasn't a good situation."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/g...kD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUycaEacyU

Go Gophers!!
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Old scholl?????????????? Maybe not tough enough! If an employee of mine skips work without an excuse I would give him a hug and ask him to please not do it agian. Yeah Right! If I let that go I have chaos. I could not run my business. Tubby should have cut him from the team. pulled his free ride and not just suspended him.
 

When I was a senior in HS our starting senior QB quit 5 games into the season...we lost 3 of the last 4 and missed the playoffs. You know, after all the years of hard work and weight lifting and running and practices and two a days and off season camps and everything i did to become the starting left tackle and protect his backside...for him to quit...didnt really matter why...he took my senior season away from me and all the other seniors...I don't care what Devoe has for a reason...he quit on his teammates and stole from them...eff Devoe...he is dead to me.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
When I was a senior in HS our starting senior QB quit 5 games into the season...we lost 3 of the last 4 and missed the playoffs. You know, after all the years of hard work and weight lifting and running and practices and two a days and off season camps and everything i did to become the starting left tackle and protect his backside...for him to quit...didnt really matter why...he took my senior season away from me and all the other seniors...I don't care what Devoe has for a reason...he quit on his teammates and stole from them...eff Devoe...he is dead to me.
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Maybe if Joseph was the 'starter' you'd have a point.


I assume Nolen is dead to you too, right? He quit on the team last year.
 

USAFChief said:
Maybe if Joseph was the 'starter' you'd have a point.


I assume Nolen is dead to you too, right? He quit on the team last year.
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I am sure some will say it is semantics, but being academically ineligible is not quitting.
 


USAFChief said:
Three things, 2 specific and 1 general:

1. Specific: It's not 'Air Force guy.' There are no 'guys' in the Air Force. You can call me asshole, you can call me wrong, you can call me pretty much anything. But ff you're going to reference my service, get my *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#ing rank right. It's 'Chief.' As in Chief Master Sergeant. I spent 22 years earning that rank, and 4 proudly wearing it. I'm not about to let some dickhead disrespect it.
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Don't you think demanding that you be addressed by your rank is a little petty, guy? Especially on a message board?

I have known a lot of officers, both commissioned and non-commissioned, and none of them have ever had a problem with civilians addressing them in a familiar way. If you prefer that people call you chief in your personal life, fine, but this is not the NCO club. There is no reason for anyone to be addressing you in any way other than the way that they address anyone else on a message board.

I have a masters degree that I spent a long time earning, do you think you could kindly address me as "master Achiever" from this point hence?
 

USAFChief said:
Maybe if Joseph was the 'starter' you'd have a point.


I assume Nolen is dead to you too, right? He quit on the team last year.
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Air Force Guy, Devoe was an important part of the team. Master GopherinPhilly, Esq. was simply using the starting QB as an example. He didn't say that was the only relevant example.

As for Nolen, while I am utterly beside myself in understanding how he could let that happen, it is different from quitting, as you well know.
 

The only thing that matters in the Nolen/Devoe transgression comparison is that Al apologized and let the team and the world know that he let his teammates down. No such repentance on the part of Devoe. Both got in trouble and had opportunites to get their acts together. One did and one didn't.

I for one think Myron's entry was vague. If he wanted to do a story on how difficult Tubby was, he could have done a little more research and actually quoted some players. If he didn't have the data, filling it in with quotes from the mother of the player in question. Obviously, the team is limited by what it can say. I am not sure a one sided argument is a fair way to deal with this in the media. Maybe the media is different now.
 

USAFChief said:
Maybe if Joseph was the 'starter' you'd have a point.


I assume Nolen is dead to you too, right? He quit on the team last year.
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By this logic Devoe quit on his team twice this year.
 

USAFChief said:
Maybe if Joseph was the 'starter' you'd have a point.


I assume Nolen is dead to you too, right? He quit on the team last year.
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Depending on who/what you believe (I have heard Al was terrible with going to class, from other students, take that for what its worth) but he also had his father in the hospital, I believe it was, when he was declared ineligible. Sure he still should have gotten his work done, but if you are inelligible due to a serious illness of a parent, I'd hardly call that "quitting". Like I said above, depends what and who you believe though. The NCAA didn't buy his dad's illness as a serious enough reason, yet at the same time, I doubt that Al suddenly became even more lazy in school his JR year and became ineligible soley because he didn't try to pass. He'd never had academic issues to the NCAA before (as I recall).
 

achiever said:
Don't you think demanding that you be addressed by your rank is a little petty, guy? Especially on a message board?

I have known a lot of officers, both commissioned and non-commissioned, and none of them have ever had a problem with civilians addressing them in a familiar way. If you prefer that people call you chief in your personal life, fine, but this is not the NCO club. There is no reason for anyone to be addressing you in any way other than the way that they address anyone else on a message board.

I have a masters degree that I spent a long time earning, do you think you could kindly address me as "master Achiever" from this point hence?
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You are correct, and I later apologized in this very thread.
 

Anybody who calls Nolen a quitter is missing the point. I don't think anybody on this board made excuses for Nolen last year. He let the team down, and he hurt the team by not living up to his responsibilities. He wasn't a quitter, but he cost the team with his poor choices. However, he was contrite, he tried to make his mistake right, and he's worked hard since then to help the team. Devoe quit. There's no coming back. There's no making up for this. It's not like a nice career at Idaho State will salvage Devoe's rep with Gopher fans. Devoe decided, of his own free will, to leave the Gophers in the lurch. Devoe is a quitter in the truest sense of the word, and as has previously been said, he's dead to me as well.
 

achiever said:
Don't you think demanding that you be addressed by your rank is a little petty, guy? Especially on a message board?

I have known a lot of officers, both commissioned and non-commissioned, and none of them have ever had a problem with civilians addressing them in a familiar way. If you prefer that people call you chief in your personal life, fine, but this is not the NCO club. There is no reason for anyone to be addressing you in any way other than the way that they address anyone else on a message board.

I have a masters degree that I spent a long time earning, do you think you could kindly address me as "master Achiever" from this point hence?
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When I was an undergrad, I was the Head of the Betas. But I did not allow anyone to address me as "Master Beta"!!!
 

Really? You thought Westbrook was better than Hoffarber last year? No offense or anything, but that's just kind of surprising.

SelectionSunday said:
Count me in the "insane" camp. I thought our best two players last year were Damian Johnson & Lawrence Westbrook. Just an opinion.

If you asked me right now who the Gophers' best two players have been (through 15 games), without hesitation I'd answer Trevor Mbakwe & Blake Hoffarber. At the end of the season I might have a different answer.
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