Myron chat: Former, current players agree Tubby is not the easiest coach to play for

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KyGopherfan said:
Allow me to translate what Myron is trying to say...

When you mess up, don't act right, don't do the right things, then you'll be on Tubby's s---list and it'll be downhill from there. Sure, some coaches like Rick Stansbury don't care if you play fisticuffs on national TV, but Tubby isn't that kinda coach.

If you do the right things, Tubby will you treat you well. I know this from his days at Kentucky. If you start missing classes, practices, smoking weed, stealing at the mall, you might as well go ahead and transfer. You'll be in Tubby's doghouse and it's not easy to be there from what I hear.

Also, Tubby is a coach that is nearly at the end of his career, so he doesn't feel the pressure to impress like an young coach might, so that's why he's less willing to forgive transgressions. He's not going to let a star player run his program in other words.
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Thank you.

Go Gophers
 

SelectionSunday said:
"Former and current players agree that Tubby is not the easiest coach to play for. He's old school. And every player doesn't respond to that style."

And we're supposed to believe the players weren't aware of this when they signed on with Tubby?

Do us a favor Mommy Joseph & shut up.
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Thank you as always SS.

Go Gophers
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
Izzo isn't easy to play for, either. (Just to name ONE example, there are others like Crean)

Myron Metcalf rarely adds anything useful except when he leaves the room.
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What was he trying to do by calling Devoe's mom?

Thanks again FOT.

Go Gophers
 

Monty519 said:
First off, only two players have left Tubby's program "unhappy" with Tubby, Justin Cobbs and Devoe Joseph. Paul Carter transferred because of his family situation, and Royce White was an idiot, and even in all he went through here, never once said a bad thing about Tubby. .
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This is a really good point Monty - Royce repeatedly said Tubby was one of the greatest coaches ever and that he really liked him. Something that is rarely brought up when Tubby bashers talk about how many have transferred recently.
 

BleedGopher said:
Myron P. Medcalf:
I can say, however, that I don't believe this is a simple case of "a quitter" as some have pegged Devoe. Former and current players agree that Tubby is not the easiest coach to play for. He's old school. And every player doesn't respond to that style.

Devoe is one of four players who've transferred in less than a year. Others have considered it. Trust me.

I'm not saying it's all on Tubby. But his style is not a good fit for every player. And I think that had something to do with Devoe's situation.
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I just find it hard to believe that it would take 2 1/2 years to figure that out. It's common knowledge that Tubby's an "old school" coach.

If he was unhappy about his playing time, then he needed to play better.
 


Myron P. Medcalf said:
But his coaching style hasn't worked for some of the guys he's recruited. I don't think the Devoe situation is as simple as a coach-player conflict. Just saying that Devoe quit for what he believed to be proper reasons. And Tubby is certainly upset that he left.
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Bottom line is that he quit on his team in the middle of the season. He and Momma are going to try to justify it but I and many other people aren't buying it. Tubby is tough? Glad I was sitting down when I read that.

I also love how you honor Momma's request not to discuss things and then set it up still so Tubby is going to get blamed by some. Modern "journalism" at work. Keep it going to get hits and keep making yourself part of the story. Next, I expect Doogie to chime in and vouch for your character by telling us how you love your dog.
 

minngg said:
Nice info on Crater, except Tubby came out and said that all Devoe had done was miss weekend practices. Nothing else to get suspended.
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Well, that and we heard that we wasn't returning calls. I assume the call was, "Devoe, it's time to come in for your follow-up test"
 

SelectionSunday said:
You hit the nail on the head OSUfan. I, too, get sick of the overanalysis. What'll make it worse is I'd bet my bottom dollar writers the ilk of what we have around here will do everything they can the rest of the season (all 15 games+ worth) to make sure the topic keeps getting rehashed, even after the decision to transfer happened days/weeks/months ago.

Maybe I'm too old school, but I want to read about the rest of the season from here forward. We've been told about Devoe's decision, have read about it, discussed it in length, now let's turn the page. However, I suspect -- much like last season became about the absences of Royce White & Trevor Mbakwe -- this season the writers (I'm thinking specifically Myron) will again make this season more about what the Gophers don't have than what they do have. I just don't think that's right, and it's not fair to the guys (happy or unhappy) that are sticking it out.

If he can go one game story/blog/tweet/chat without mentioning Devoe's absence, color me shocked and I'll tip my cap to him.
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Wins make the transfer go to the back of the line. Quite easy. Will Tubby and the boys win and make it go away?

Telling that "turning the page" is the mantra now. Some of the past players that hung around were abused on this board, only to be deemed necessary just a short time later.
 

The speculation is what bothers me about Devoe. Obviously, Devoe had thought about transferring for quite a while per Myron. Obviously, Tubby has a long history of success with players. What we do NOT know is this:

1) Why Devoe left
2) Why Devoe only played 20 minutes against MSU after a good game vs WI.

Rather than speculate on drugs or placing blame on one or the other party, let's try waiting and seeing if something comes out. Smearing a kid as a quitter or a drug user or whatever is just wrong without facts. Just as wrong as blaming Tubby for being too tough on players.
 



Mulligan said:
Bottom line is that he quit on his team in the middle of the season. He and Momma are going to try to justify it but I and many other people aren't buying it. Tubby is tough? Glad I was sitting down when I read that.

I also love how you honor Momma's request not to discuss things and then set it up still so Tubby is going to get blamed by some. Modern "journalism" at work. Keep it going to get hits and keep making yourself part of the story. Next, I expect Doogie to chime in and vouch for your character by telling us how you love your dog.
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+1. I have far less problem with players transferring at the end of a season. That's their right, just as some find their scholarships 'not renewed' at times. But there's not many good excuses for bailing at this time. Chances are, the next time Devoe steps on a D-1 basketball floor for a game it will be November 2012. That would have been true whether he transferred now or in April/May. He was playing plenty of minutes and contributing. That he couldn't stick it out for 2-3 more months tells me that he was either A. Going to flunk out (either academically or otherwise) and decided to beat the rap out of town, or B. decided to be petty and bail on his teammates. There could be legitimate 3rd reason out there, but I haven't seen anything to indicate it. I refuse to believe that 2.5 years into playing for Tubby he suddenly found it so unbearable he couldn't take another minute.
 

Welcome back ZTA! How's "Helluva Golfer" doing?

I see that you're still pining for the glory days of the Monson years.
 

minngg said:
There has been no report of a failed first test (although widely believed) and no report of a second failed test. the second failed report is BS IMO. Tubby did not suspend Devoe a second time. Devoe was suspended only when he missed practice. He missed practice because he decided to transfer. Anything else is just conjecture and unfair.
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Tubby has been after Walter Pitchford for a while now (according to the sources). He must have an idea that something was coming up. It wasn't because he thought that Trevor would go to NBA. Nothing is sure about that. He either wanted to kick Devoe out or was expecting him to leave. If he wanted Devoe out, he would have done it earlier but he must have given him a second chance.

I have a feeling that Devoe did not use his second chance wisely. I had so much respect for Devoe for what he did last season. He just couldn't handle the status that he got after his performance last season. He was a hero in the state of MN. That got into his head. I'll bring this up one more time, that shot that he took against Wisky after the timeout said it all. I remmeber seeing all the coaches mad as hell. It wasn't just Tubby who was tired of this.

Go Gophers
 

howeda7 said:
+1. I have far less problem with players transferring at the end of a season. That's their right, just as some find their scholarships 'not renewed' at times. But there's not many good excuses for bailing at this time. Chances are, the next time Devoe steps on a D-1 basketball floor for a game it will be November 2012. That would have been true whether he transferred now or in April/May. He was playing plenty of minutes and contributing. That he couldn't stick it out for 2-3 more months tells me that he was either A. Going to flunk out (either academically or otherwise) and decided to beat the rap out of town, or B. decided to be petty and bail on his teammates. There could be legitimate 3rd reason out there, but I haven't seen anything to indicate it. I refuse to believe that 2.5 years into playing for Tubby he suddenly found it so unbearable he couldn't take another minute.
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20 Minutes a game is not enough for a kid that started the previous year and did very well because another kid (now starting ahead of him) couldn't cut it in class. Think about how Devoe felt when he contributed 14 pts, 7 assists, with just one turnover in 21 minutes while Nolen goes 0-6, scores 0 points and adds 2 assists in 22 in the Wisconsin game. We lose the WI game and playing Devoe more could have made the difference. Then we play MSU and Nolen plays 30 mins and scores 4 pts with 4 TO's and 3 assists. Devoe plays 21 minutes and scores 5 pts with 2 TO's and 1 assist. We lose another close game.

Don't you think it is a possiblity that Devoe, after starting the previous year and doing very well, felt that Tubby was holding whatever he did earlier against him and that he wasn't getting a fair shake so he transferred? I am not saying that this is the right move for Devoe, but to say it is grades or pettiness on his part is speculation. We have no idea. Nolen let the team down in 2009, Devoe did this year, but it seemed Al was given the starting job back without any grudge by Tubby. Again, we have no idea. Let's stop the grades and drug stuff. There are other reasons kids leave.
 



Are the gophers better off without a "POUTING" Joseph?

Bottom line is that he quit on his team in the middle of the season...
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That indeed is the bottom line. There can be all kinds of speculation as to why he quit but we have to go back to Pryzbilla (I don't recall anybody else since walking in mid season of there own accord) to find another player who quit on his team in the middle of the seaon.

Pryzbilla did it for cold hard cash (He quit after a GREAT game versus Indiana).

Joseph did it for "what ever reason" but the fact remains he quit because he felt like it.

Now the question is: Are the Gophers better off with out a pouting Joeseph? We have all seen his moods and I contend that they are actually better off that he quit. Nobody enjoys playing with or coaching an "eye roller".
 

I may be out of line on this, but Devoe's D always seemed like a liability to me. He has a tendency to drift and get confused by screens; leaving a lot of open looks. Perhaps the lack of playing time was related to DJ's lackluster efforts/effectiveness on D.

Whatever though - we gotta move on. Best of luck to Devoe in the future; the few times I got to sit and chat with him he seemed like an awesome guy.
 

would someone please give me one name of a coach that is easy to play for. i'm tired of everyone making excuses for unhappy kids. lets face it, he didn't like the time he was being played and something was going on behind the scenes, and he pouted like a little kid. when he didn't get his way he quit. thats how our society is today. if your unhappy with your job you quit. if your wife makes you mad because she doesn't want you at the bar all night you quit. its easier than facing up to reality. the kid quit and myron wants to make and all the insider bloggers want to coddle the kid. face up to it he's a quitter. now lets move on and i'm loven the guys who didn't quit. apparently tubby is so hard on those kids. he's only tough on a few of them, like cobbs and joseph. we're 7-0 without the kid and 5-3 with him. does that mean we're going undefeated? obviously no, but chemistry is more important than 10 pts./game.
 


thiscouldbouryr said:
would someone please give me one name of a coach that is easy to play for. i'm tired of everyone making excuses for unhappy kids. lets face it, he didn't like the time he was being played and something was going on behind the scenes, and he pouted like a little kid. when he didn't get his way he quit. thats how our society is today. if your unhappy with your job you quit. if your wife makes you mad because she doesn't want you at the bar all night you quit. its easier than facing up to reality. the kid quit and myron wants to make and all the insider bloggers want to coddle the kid. face up to it he's a quitter. now lets move on and i'm loven the guys who didn't quit. apparently tubby is so hard on those kids. he's only tough on a few of them, like cobbs and joseph. we're 7-0 without the kid and 5-3 with him. does that mean we're going undefeated? obviously no, but chemistry is more important than 10 pts./game.
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+1

Devoe is going to be in for a rude awakening when he gets a job in the real world and his boss doesn't kiss his butt and Mommy can't make it all better.
 

minngg said:
The speculation is what bothers me about Devoe. Obviously, Devoe had thought about transferring for quite a while per Myron. Obviously, Tubby has a long history of success with players. What we do NOT know is this:

1) Why Devoe left
2) Why Devoe only played 20 minutes against MSU after a good game vs WI.

Rather than speculate on drugs or placing blame on one or the other party, let's try waiting and seeing if something comes out. Smearing a kid as a quitter or a drug user or whatever is just wrong without facts. Just as wrong as blaming Tubby for being too tough on players.
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I agree that calling him a drug user without concrete information is smearing the kid. However, calling him a quitter is not. He quit on his team. Walked out smack dab in the middle of the year. For whatever reason he did it, he is indeed a quitter.
 

Myron: If you're still checking in, just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to add what little substance you can to this. Wouldn't blame you if you never came back, but hope you do.
 

minngg said:
...Think about how Devoe felt when he contributed 14 pts, 7 assists, with just one turnover in 21 minutes while Nolen goes 0-6, scores 0 points and adds 2 assists in 22 in the Wisconsin game. We lose the WI game and playing Devoe more could have made the difference...
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I absolutely love how the Devoe worshippers gloss over the fact that Jordan Taylor was absolutely raping him when he was on the floor. Nolen goes out with his second foul and Taylor, who was scoreless at the time, proceeds to go off on Superstar Devoe for the remainder of the half. He scored 9 straight points during one 4 minute stretch, for Christ's sake. What were you watching when this was happening? Taylor would have scored 40 if Devoe got more minutes, and the final margin would have been twice as bad.

Why don't you guys get this? Devoe is/was an awful defensive player. During the game you keep referencing, it was proved for the 50th time. THAT is why he couldn't ever stay on the floor, he absolutely sucks at 50% of the game. Devoe is/was much more concerned about his upcoming forced three pointer than manning up on the player if front of him (who was normally already by him and into the lane).

Everyone except you, Devoe's mom, Myron Pee, Air Force guy, and Devoe understand this.
 

minngg said:
20 Minutes a game is not enough for a kid that started the previous year and did very well because another kid (now starting ahead of him) couldn't cut it in class. Think about how Devoe felt when he contributed 14 pts, 7 assists, with just one turnover in 21 minutes while Nolen goes 0-6, scores 0 points and adds 2 assists in 22 in the Wisconsin game. We lose the WI game and playing Devoe more could have made the difference. Then we play MSU and Nolen plays 30 mins and scores 4 pts with 4 TO's and 3 assists. Devoe plays 21 minutes and scores 5 pts with 2 TO's and 1 assist. We lose another close game.

Don't you think it is a possiblity that Devoe, after starting the previous year and doing very well, felt that Tubby was holding whatever he did earlier against him and that he wasn't getting a fair shake so he transferred? I am not saying that this is the right move for Devoe, but to say it is grades or pettiness on his part is speculation. We have no idea. Nolen let the team down in 2009, Devoe did this year, but it seemed Al was given the starting job back without any grudge by Tubby. Again, we have no idea. Let's stop the grades and drug stuff. There are other reasons kids leave.
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None of that excuses leaving in the middle of the season. I'm fine if he felt this way and decided he wanted to spend his senior season somewhere else. But what is he gaining by quitting in January instead of April? All he's accomplished is screwing himself of a chance to contribute to an NCAA tournament team with the potential to win a few games and screwing his teammates at the same time. If he'd have stuck it out through the season and still felt he wanted to leave, fine. There's very little excuse for the timing of what he did.
 

GoGoGophers said:
I absolutely love how the Devoe worshippers gloss over the fact that Jordan Taylor was absolutely raping him when he was on the floor. Nolen goes out with his second foul and Taylor, who was scoreless at the time, proceeds to go off on Superstar Devoe for the remainder of the half. He scored 9 straight points during one 4 minute stretch, for Christ's sake. What were you watching when this was happening? Taylor would have scored 40 if Devoe got more minutes, and the final margin would have been twice as bad.

Why don't you guys get this? Devoe is/was an awful defensive player. During the game you keep referencing, it was proved for the 50th time. THAT is why he couldn't ever stay on the floor, he absolutely sucks at 50% of the game. Devoe is/was much more concerned about his upcoming forced three pointer than manning up on the player if front of him (who was normally already by him and into the lane).

Everyone except you, Devoe's mom, Myron Pee, Air Force guy, and Devoe understand this.
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Your recollection on the WI game is wrong. Dead wrong. Check the stats of Taylors scoring. Nolen was in the game when he went off. Nolen was guarding him. Tell me how did MN go to thew championship game of the Big Ten tourney and beat Pudue and a final four team, MSU, with Devoe playing 30 minutes of defense?

If you think MN is better off without Joseph, you are in for the biggest surprise of your life the next month or so.
 

SelectionSunday said:
You hit the nail on the head OSUfan. I, too, get sick of the overanalysis. What'll make it worse is I'd bet my bottom dollar writers the ilk of what we have around here will do everything they can the rest of the season (all 15 games+ worth) to make sure the topic keeps getting rehashed, even after the decision to transfer happened days/weeks/months ago.

Maybe I'm too old school, but I want to read about the rest of the season from here forward. We've been told about Devoe's decision, have read about it, discussed it in length, now let's turn the page. However, I suspect -- much like last season became about the absences of Royce White & Trevor Mbakwe -- this season the writers (I'm thinking specifically Myron) will again make this season more about what the Gophers don't have than what they do have. I just don't think that's right, and it's not fair to the guys (happy or unhappy) that are sticking it out.

If he can go one game story/blog/tweet/chat without mentioning Devoe's absence, color me shocked and I'll tip my cap to him.
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Fair enough to me. The kid is gone. No reason left to bash him and we move on. We're a top 25 team that still needs to prove it belongs in the top 25. Either we do that or we don't. Time to focus on the next game and leave the drama behind. Let's have faith in the guys who choose to stick it out.
 

My source inside the program told me today that he had failed his 3rd drug test, and I believe it whole heartedly. Can't say I'm surprised in his interest in Oregon....home of arguably the best "trees" on the planet.
 

minngg said:
Your recollection on the WI game is wrong. Dead wrong. Check the stats of Taylors scoring. Nolen was in the game when he went off. Nolen was guarding him. Tell me how did MN go to thew championship game of the Big Ten tourney and beat Pudue and a final four team, MSU, with Devoe playing 30 minutes of defense?

If you think MN is better off without Joseph, you are in for the biggest surprise of your life the next month or so.
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Unreal. Re-write the past all you want, Devoe got pi$$ed on by Taylor all game. Went off on him when Nolen was on the bench with 2 fouls for the last 9 minutes of the half, and did the same in the second half. Devoe sucks on the defensive end. Always has, always will.

Bringing up the B10 tourney run doesn't change that fact. He was not the reason they won those games. He was a contributor, sure, but not the sole reason. Was he the sole reason they got swept by Michigan? Beat down by NU and IU? That team STRUGGLED down the stretch last year and made a great, but unanticipated, run in 3 days that saved their season. To pretend that the team played well down the stretch last year without Nolen is a fallacy that people like you, Devoe, his mom, and Air Force guy have created.

I have never stated, or even thought, that they are better off without him, but your hero worship is asinine.
 

Sparlimb said:
Fair enough to me. The kid is gone. No reason left to bash him and we move on. We're a top 25 team that still needs to prove it belongs in the top 25. Either we do that or we don't. Time to focus on the next game and leave the drama behind. Let's have faith in the guys who choose to stick it out.
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Wins will make the transfer go away. Not winning will make it larger than life. What will happen?

ONe thing is obvious in all of this - Tubby Smith is is not to be blamed for anything bad Gopher BB, only the good.
 

Look, I don't have any problem with Myron and his work. He can be a tad petulant at times, but seems like a straight-shooter.

Anyway, no one really knows for sure (including our reporters) all the circumstances behind Devoe's departure. But I did find it strange that Devoe couldn't attract Corey to play with him at Minnesota. Fortunately, Big Mo was recruited and hopefully he stays here despite the departure.

Insofar as sibling rivalry, younger brother Corey is starting and doing well down in Texas. Now I don't know Barnes' coaching style very well but do suspect he is like Tubby and is pretty much by the book.

With Devoe having done so well during the Big Ten Tournament only to come off the bench, it would seem that Corey's success may be in part a factor in Devoe's frustration.

Tubby being "old school" versus (I suppose) new school seems a point in Myron's contention. Yet many successful D-1 coaches are "old school" and many more have had problem recruits. The issue for me is how else do you run a major basketball program without being by the book? You're taking a dozen or more young men where physical maturity far exceeds mental maturity. You can't be duplicitous and have a different set of rules for certain players and not for others. Minnesota has experienced the NCAA sanctions that accompanied that practice. I'd rather lose a recruit or two and not risk the potential for NCAA sanctions.

Myron interviews the mother and gets the "insiders" scoop of the matter but he can't share it. So why bring it up to begin with? And even if Myron could, does anyone seriously believe that mom is going to turn on her son to a beat writer?

Many parents, like myself, like a coach who sets standards of behavior. I suspect guys like Ralph Sampson wanted his son to play for Tubby for that reason. If it means losing Devoe and Royce, so be it. But you don't throw the baby out with the bath water (sorry but true)
 

GoGoGophers said:
Unreal. Re-write the past all you want, Devoe got pi$$ed on by Taylor all game. Went off on him when Nolen was on the bench with 2 fouls for the last 9 minutes of the half, and did the same in the second half. Devoe sucks on the defensive end. Always has, always will.

Bringing up the B10 tourney run doesn't change that fact. He was not the reason they won those games. He was a contributor, sure, but not the sole reason. Was he the sole reason they got swept by Michigan? Beat down by NU and IU? That team STRUGGLED down the stretch last year and made a great, but unanticipated, run in 3 days that saved their season. To pretend that the team played well down the stretch last year without Nolen is a fallacy that people like you, Devoe, his mom, and Air Force guy have created.

I have never stated, or even thought, that they are better off without him, but your hero worship is asinine.
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Who is this rage directed at?

But I agree about the DJ's lack of D...as I posted earlier in the thread. He got less minutes because of his bad D and that's probably why he didn't get the PT he thought he deserved. But dang his offense can look really good sometimes.
 

minngg said:
Your recollection on the WI game is wrong. Dead wrong. Check the stats of Taylors scoring. Nolen was in the game when he went off. Nolen was guarding him. Tell me how did MN go to thew championship game of the Big Ten tourney and beat Pudue and a final four team, MSU, with Devoe playing 30 minutes of defense?

If you think MN is better off without Joseph, you are in for the biggest surprise of your life the next month or so.
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I still don't think Al Nolen is well. He did have trouble with Taylor but his injury is not going away soon and will likely persist throughout the rest of the season. Nolen looked more like himself against Indiana. But the reason for the lackluster performance had more to do with the under achieving players, like Ralph, and the freshmen adjusting to playing more minutes.

Anytime you take a player, like Devoe, out of the rotation, the team has to adjust on the fly to players in different roles. But most teams do adjust and move on.
 

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