MLB Hot Stove League = Player Movement & Innuendo

Gopher_In_NYC

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Let the movement begin!

Nick Cassalones opted out of his deal with the Reds after mashing all year long and making the All Star team for the first time (as a starter too boot).
 


Gopher_In_NYC

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Hot Stove on MLB is fun to watch to keep updated with a deeper dive than SC
 

TruthSeeker

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Buster Posey retires- one of my favorite recent players - great player and apparently a good dude.

HOF?

No. He's like Mauer.

Both were great at their peaks, but neither were good enough for long enough to reach HOF status.

They each needed two more, all-star quality years at catcher, playing 130 or more games at the position.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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No. He's like Mauer.

Both were great at their peaks, but neither were good enough for long enough to reach HOF status.

They each needed two more, all-star quality years at catcher, playing 130 or more games at the position.
I think his 3 WS wins is enough and gets him in for the best team in that decade. rings matter and he was the best player on those teams IMO
 


Ope3

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No. He's like Mauer.

Both were great at their peaks, but neither were good enough for long enough to reach HOF status.

They each needed two more, all-star quality years at catcher, playing 130 or more games at the position.
I actually think "just like Mauer" means both will make it to Cooperstown.
 

TruthSeeker

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I think his 3 WS wins is enough and gets him in for the best team in that decade. rings matter and he was the best player on those teams IMO
They don't matter very much for baseball.

That applies to basketball or QBs in football.
 


WilliamsArenaGuy

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Ope3

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Jose Berrios signs an extension with the Blue Jays, 7 yrs - $131 Million.

I do wonder if the Twins had ponied up that kind of dough if he would resigned here. Semi-surprised that he did not take it all the way to Free Agency given the rhetoric that was out there from local talking heads.
 

howeda7

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Jose Berrios signs an extension with the Blue Jays, 7 yrs - $131 Million.

I do wonder if the Twins had ponied up that kind of dough if he would resigned here. Semi-surprised that he did not take it all the way to Free Agency given the rhetoric that was out there from local talking heads.
I would have done that deal with Berrios in a second. I don't love 7 years for a pitcher, but less than $20 million/year is a no-brainer.

On the positive side, it was a good trade, and if that's the market for Berrios, we should be able to sign two of Stroman, Robby Ray etc. for similar amounts/year on shorter deals.
 

GophersInIowa

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I would have done that deal with Berrios in a second. I don't love 7 years for a pitcher, but less than $20 million/year is a no-brainer.

On the positive side, it was a good trade, and if that's the market for Berrios, we should be able to sign two of Stroman, Robby Ray etc. for similar amounts/year on shorter deals.
The interesting thing is his agent made it clear before Berrios was traded that he wanted to test free agency. I'm wondering if Berrios signs that extension with the Twins. I'm guessing no.
 



howeda7

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The interesting thing is his agent made it clear before Berrios was traded that he wanted to test free agency. I'm wondering if Berrios signs that extension with the Twins. I'm guessing no.
Probably not at that price. Signing with Toronto surprises me. He's from PR, supposedly didn't like cold weather, and it will never be easy for Toronto in that division.

I think Falvine screwed up and burned the bridge pretty early by low-balling him and he just wanted out.
 


Ope3

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Probably not at that price. Signing with Toronto surprises me. He's from PR, supposedly didn't like cold weather, and it will never be easy for Toronto in that division.

I think Falvine screwed up and burned the bridge pretty early by low-balling him and he just wanted out.

Maybe it was just pitching in cold weather he did not care for, the Blue Jays Dome takes care of that.

Could be on to something regarding Falvine, or as the Labor Agreement is set to expire in a few weeks, perhaps he had an epiphany to get something done right now. Who knows, his short time in Toronto might have convinced him it was a good fit long term.
 

howeda7

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Supposedly we are listening to offers for Buxton. That might be the last straw for me. At least until the Pohlads sell the team for Falvine is fired.
 

forever a gopher

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Supposedly we are listening to offers for Buxton. That might be the last straw for me. At least until the Pohlads sell the team for Falvine is fired.
Like anybody, depends what they're able to get for him. I don't think anybody in sports, short of a guy like LeBron, Brady, Aaron Rodgers, etc. (i.e. guys that can literally turn a mediocre team into a championship contender) should be untouchable. Exhibit A: Walker, Hershel. If you can find a dumb, desperate team to grossly overpay, sell him off. I know you're on the Buxton bandwagon, but honestly if they can even get "market rate" for him, I'd trade him in a second. An injured player adds no value to your team. Give me 150 games from a guy that is in the 75th percentile versus 50 games of a guy at the 95th percentile.
 

howeda7

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Like anybody, depends what they're able to get for him. I don't think anybody in sports, short of a guy like LeBron, Brady, Aaron Rodgers, etc. (i.e. guys that can literally turn a mediocre team into a championship contender) should be untouchable. Exhibit A: Walker, Hershel. If you can find a dumb, desperate team to grossly overpay, sell him off. I know you're on the Buxton bandwagon, but honestly if they can even get "market rate" for him, I'd trade him in a second. An injured player adds no value to your team. Give me 150 games from a guy that is in the 75th percentile versus 50 games of a guy at the 95th percentile.
Sure. Always answer the phone. But they won't get any insane return. It will be similar or less than what they got for Berrios.

The bottom line is that you can't campaign for a new stadium for 10 years based on the need to keep your core players and then only keep ONE of them in the first decade + of the stadium. If they trade both Berrios and Buxton they are giving the middle finger to the fan base that helped get that stadium built.
 

forever a gopher

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Jose Berrios signs an extension with the Blue Jays, 7 yrs - $131 Million.

I do wonder if the Twins had ponied up that kind of dough if he would resigned here. Semi-surprised that he did not take it all the way to Free Agency given the rhetoric that was out there from local talking heads.
I would have done that deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

It seems the bridge had been burned, and Berrios was leaving regardless. An extremely durable and reliable number 2 starter for less than $20/yr is a good deal. IF he stays healthy, having him on the books for $18+ mil in years 4-7 is going to look like a steal.
 

forever a gopher

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Sure. Always answer the phone. But they won't get any insane return. It will be similar or less than what they got for Berrios.

The bottom line is that you can't campaign for a new stadium for 10 years based on the need to keep your core players and then only keep ONE of them in the first decade + of the stadium. If they trade both Berrios and Buxton they are giving the middle finger to the fan base that helped get that stadium built.
They've already done that many times. As long as the value of the team keeps going up, they don't give a shit about us fans. One of the numerous reasons why I just don't care nearly as much as I used to or get nearly as worked up about pro sports.

Living in Mpls, I couldn't get the games on the radio prior to the switch back to WCCO. I lived 5 miles from where the game is being played, and I couldn't reliably hear the game (yes, I understand that's not where the radio tower is, but in principle it's absurd). Of course, I was listening on the radio because they gave exclusive TV rights to the cable channels, so no Sunday afternoon TV games for me, even though my tax dollars in Hennepin County helped line their pockets.
 

howeda7

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They've already done that many times. As long as the value of the team keeps going up, they don't give a shit about us fans. One of the numerous reasons why I just don't care nearly as much as I used to or get nearly as worked up about pro sports.

Living in Mpls, I couldn't get the games on the radio prior to the switch back to WCCO. I lived 5 miles from where the game is being played, and I couldn't reliably hear the game (yes, I understand that's not where the radio tower is, but in principle it's absurd). Of course, I was listening on the radio because they gave exclusive TV rights to the cable channels, so no Sunday afternoon TV games for me, even though my tax dollars in Hennepin County helped line their pockets.
I guess that's subjective. But in the 90's/early 2000's the economics of the game and the Dome didn't give them much choice. Sure they could have a top 15 payroll and lose $, but it's not rational to expect that.

They are now a solidly middle market team in revenues. If they act like a poor copy of the Tampa Rays, it's by choice, not necessity. Whether it's the Pohlads edict or just Falvey thinking he's smartest man in any room and his $% doesn't stink, it's unacceptable.

As for the TV/Radio, the move off of WCCO was a dumb self-own by the Pohlads. At least it's fixed.

The move to all cable is what most of the league has gone to. I have to think that going back to some OTA TV games might happen though with the Bally Sports fiasco. They probably can't do anything until their contract is up though.
 

GophersInIowa

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They've already done that many times. As long as the value of the team keeps going up, they don't give a shit about us fans. One of the numerous reasons why I just don't care nearly as much as I used to or get nearly as worked up about pro sports.

Living in Mpls, I couldn't get the games on the radio prior to the switch back to WCCO. I lived 5 miles from where the game is being played, and I couldn't reliably hear the game (yes, I understand that's not where the radio tower is, but in principle it's absurd). Of course, I was listening on the radio because they gave exclusive TV rights to the cable channels, so no Sunday afternoon TV games for me, even though my tax dollars in Hennepin County helped line their pockets.
What other top players have they traded away since the stadium was built?
 

GophersInIowa

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I guess that's subjective. But in the 90's/early 2000's the economics of the game and the Dome didn't give them much choice. Sure they could have a top 15 payroll and lose $, but it's not rational to expect that.

They are now a solidly middle market team in revenues. If they act like a poor copy of the Tampa Rays, it's by choice, not necessity. Whether it's the Pohlads edict or just Falvey thinking he's smartest man in any room and his $% doesn't stink, it's unacceptable.
I'll be pissed if Buxton is traded as well but it might be a situation where they don't feel they have a choice. If they've made really good offers and Buxton has turned it down because he wants to become a free agent, then you have to try to get as much for him as you can. I hope that isn't the case but it's a possibility.

If they keep him through the end of his contract, he becomes a free agent and signs elsewhere, people will be pissed too that they didn't get something for him.
 

howeda7

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I'll be pissed if Buxton is traded as well but it might be a situation where they don't feel they have a choice. If they've made really good offers and Buxton has turned it down because he wants to become a free agent, then you have to try to get as much for him as you can. I hope that isn't the case but it's a possibility.

If they keep him through the end of his contract, he becomes a free agent and signs elsewhere, people will be pissed too that they didn't get something for him.
So far, reports are they've offered 7 years/$80 million. That's pathetic. I have zero confidence they've made any "really good" offers and I won't believe them if they claim they did, because they've done nothing to deserve the benefit of the doubt on that. Just nut up and pay the man.

5 years/$110 million with incentives for plate appearances should be enough to get it done. Maybe a 6th/7th year with a buyout.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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Jose Berrios signs an extension with the Blue Jays, 7 yrs - $131 Million.

I do wonder if the Twins had ponied up that kind of dough if he would resigned here. Semi-surprised that he did not take it all the way to Free Agency given the rhetoric that was out there from local talking heads.
That team is stacked and will have an epic run over the next several years
 
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GophersInIowa

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So far, reports are they've offered 7 years/$80 million. That's pathetic. I have zero confidence they've made any "really good" offers and I won't believe them if they claim they did, because they've done nothing to deserve the benefit of the doubt on that. Just nut up and pay the man.

5 years/$110 million with incentives for plate appearances should be enough to get it done. Maybe a 6th/7th year with a buyout.
If true, yeah that is pathetic.
 

forever a gopher

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What other top players have they traded away since the stadium was built?
What top players have they had that other teams desperately wanted? Buxton and Berrios have been the most saught after players they’ve had in past 5+ years. And one is traded and the other will likely be shipped off due to an unwillingness to pay. The only players they’ve had that have warranted a deal at $100+mil since Mauer are these same two players unlikely to be signed here long term.

The larger middle finger is the continued unwillingness to sign quality FA’s, most importantly pitching. They paid $92mil to Donaldson, but that was very much an outlier. They’ve been close a couple times where they needed to go “all in”, but have instead chosen to stand pat.

I’m no Wilf apologist, but look at how that team is run and how they are willing to spend money compared to the Twins. The Wild went all in on Suter and Parise. It didn’t work, but at least they tried. And now, they have already locked up Kaprizov after seeing just one year. Heck, even one of the most inept organizations in sports (Wolves) haven’t used money as a reason to not retain or acquire players and they have much bigger attendance issues than the Twins.
 
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GopherWeatherGuy

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I usually complain about the Twins not spending money, but I just don't get the love affair for wanting to spend money on Berrios and Buxton.

Buxton can't and won't stay healthy and there is no reason to give him big money. They have capable replacements in the system already. Didn't the Braves just get better and win a world series without their star CF for the second half of the season? That money is better spent elsewhere.

Berrios is a 2/3 starter in this league. The dollar amount looks reasonable per year because it's for 7 years which is way too long. He would have wanted 20+ for 5 years or less, which is way too much for his ability.

When they did spend big money on Mauer, they didn't get their money worth. They didn't spend big money on Santana, which turned out to be the right move.
 

GophersInIowa

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What top players have they had that other teams desperately wanted? Buxton and Berrios have been the most saught after players they’ve had in past 5+ years. And one is traded and the other will likely be shipped off due to an unwillingness to pay. The only players they’ve had that have warranted a deal at $100+mil since Mauer are these same two players unlikely to be signed here long term.

The larger middle finger is the continued unwillingness to sign quality FA’s, most importantly pitching. They paid $92mil to Donaldson, but that was very much an outlier. They’ve been close a couple times where they needed to go “all in”, but have instead chosen to stand pat.

I’m no Wilf apologist, but look at how that team is run and how they are willing to spend money compared to the Twins. The Wild went all in on Suter and Parise. It didn’t work, but at least they tried. And now, they have already locked up Kaprizov after seeing just one year. Heck, even one of the most inept organizations in sports (Wolves) haven’t used money as a reason to not retain or acquire players and they have much bigger attendance issues than the Twins.
Minnesota is almost always going to have to significantly overpay to get top starting pitchers. Just paying a little bit more than everyone else won’t get it done most times. I love having an outdoor stadium but it does put us at a big disadvantage when trying to attract top arms. Development and trades are our best bet.
 




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