Minnesota High School Football Section Championship Matchups

[Word]

Brainerd this year… which is less infuriating because at least there is a travel cost argument to be made on that one. Have actually done Hopkins in the past but stopped for some reason for Hopkins but not for coon rapids…


it would be BETTER if there were other examples other than coon rapids. That coon rapids is the only real example points to the fact it is favoritism. I wonder who is friends with who that gets them special treatment

I guess I have a harder time getting too upset over the Coon Rapids thing with my background as I've mostly been the player or coach of the teams that were always having to play bigger, richer schools/teams (and usually losing because of it). Just by bad luck we were always basically the smallest school in our class and on the poorer end of the spectrum.

 

[MaxyJR1]

If it's relatively isolated to the Coon Rapids situation it sounds like mostly the formula is working and someone (maybe?) made a bad decision in the Coon Rapids case.
Have you brought your concerns to your AD? Have they brought them to MSHSL? If so, what did you hear back?

Worthington is an example as they are bigger than Marshall, but play a class lower.
Richfield is a 5A enrollment down in 4A.
Rochester Mayo, Coon Rapids, and Brainerd are to 32 enrollments.

 

[MaxyJR1]

I have heard a lot of ADs are pissed about coon rapids situation.
they did respond and no longer allow coon rapids to opt down for playoffs. Only regular season.

the entirety of 6a football has been completely botched by MSHSL. Empty stadiums with teams not playing rivals 4 miles away and instead teams driving from Lakeville to forest lake on a Friday afternoon to play in a blowout

I agree that 6A is screwed up. Let teams play more local and then seed it as properly as possible 1-32.

 

[Word]

Worthington is an example as they are bigger than Marshall, but play a class lower

Bigger even when adjusted for free lunch rate? Not that I even care that much.
Sounds like the MSHSL needs to either stop making exceptions to the formula or have some sort of clearly defined criteria (agreed upon by member schools) how a school can drop down. It shouldn't be an individual or a few people at MSHSL just deciding those cases.

 

[Some guy]

Good information.

It's interesting the Private schools can option up, but can then go back to their class. Cretin went down to 5A this year. (Can of worms)
Other classes have same issues Marshall is a 4A team that plays 6 3A teams. St. Peter is 4A, but played a 2A team on their schedule. If 2A, 3A, and 4A teams can play each other, why can't 5A and 6A? Worthington is bigger than Marshall, but plays 3A.

There should maybe be some projection. Programs that are projected to continue to grow based on population should be bumped up sooner, than waiting for them to reach threshold.

Andover, Elk River, Rogers, Spring Lake Park possibly.

Kasson-Mantorville and Byron

Maybe they shouldn't move schools down until they exhibit that the program has regressed. Waseca moved down to 3AAA.

Here is my solution. Ends up with same amount of classes and champs.

6A- 24-32 teams

5/4A Be one class and split into an upper and lower playoff based on record or computer. Only play 5A and 4A schools.

3/2A Be one class and split into an upper and lower playoff based on record or computer. Only play 3A and 2A schools.

1A only play 1A schools

9-Man stay as 9-Man

The trick is that they basically created 6a and said 6a can only play 6a

this created a situation where some teams were dying on the vine because they’re playing the gauntlet. Instead of being a small fish in a big pond they were a small fish in a tiny tank with a bunch of big fish.

then they start letting 1-3 teams play 5a games: they either need to let everyone play 5a games or no one.
not fair to Hopkins to have to get waxed every week but let some teams play st Francis because they know somebody on the board of directors

 

[disco]

the entirety of 6a football has been completely botched by MSHSL. Empty stadiums with teams not playing rivals 4 miles away and instead teams driving from Lakeville to forest lake on a Friday afternoon to play in a blowout

This. It's completely absurd that Wayzata didn't play long time rivals like , Edina, Eden Prairie, Minnetonka and yes, Hopkins this year, and instead played teams like Roseville and Farmington. They simply need to go back to conference play, and if some teams are perpetually bad in football, so be it. My old high school has pretty much been a doormat for years.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Here are some sample free and reduced numbers:

Coon Rapids 38%
Burnsville 36%
Roseville 33%
Hopkins 28%
Shakopee 26%
Anoka 24%
St Francis 16%
Eastview 13%
Mayo 26%
Worthington 55%
Brainerd 27%

 

[DocfromDarwin]

Bold take. PJ even offered a Minnesota kid before?? /s

The fool didn’t think trey lance was good enough!! #2 draft pick!!!!!!!

 

[State of Football]

This. It's completely absurd that Wayzata didn't play long time rivals like , Edina, Eden Prairie, Minnetonka and yes, Hopkins this year, and instead played teams like Roseville and Farmington. They simply need to go back to conference play, and if some teams are perpetually bad in football, so be it. My old high school has pretty much been a doormat for years.

What do you do when there’s a conference of 5? That was the genesis of District football. Teams couldn’t find 8 games.

 

[disco]

The current Lake Conference is Buffalo, Eden Prairie, Edina, Hopkins, Minnetonka, St. Michael Albertville and Wayzata. That should be the conference for football. Is that too difficult?

 

[UpAndUnder43]

The fool didn’t think trey lance was good enough!! #2 draft pick!!!!!!!

Yeah, just like that loser Saban, the used car salesman Swinney and the idiot Day!

 

[State of Football]

The current Lake Conference is Buffalo, Eden Prairie, Edina, Hopkins,w Minnetonka, St. Michael’s Hopk Albertville and Wayzata. That should be the conference for football. Is that too difficult?

Buffalo and Hopkins would leave in a week if that occurred.

 

[disco]

Buffalo and Hopkins would leave in a week if that occurred.

I don't think Buffalo would leave. That district is growing pretty fast and it's going to be up there with the big schools in the west metro very soon - it's a huge district that stretches all the way to the edge of Maple Grove. They also have really nice new facilities and a beautiful newer high school.

 

[Ven]

To get back to discussing games, I’m heading to the DC-Fairmont game on Saturday. Should be a very interesting matchup, DC very rarely throws and Fairmont throws a lot.

Another fun little thing I saw/heard was that none of the East Central South teams were knocked out by any other district, only by other teams in their division.

 

[disco]

I'm debating taking the boy to Wayzata-STMA but not sure how much he's going to want to sit out in the forecasted weather tomorrow night.

 

[Some guy]

What do you do when there’s a conference of 5? That was the genesis of District football. Teams couldn’t find 8 games.

That’s 100% true:
They could’ve probably fixed the issue without blowing up the entire system and building a new terrible one

 

[Some guy]

Buffalo and Hopkins would leave in a week if that occurred.

Hopkins should probably be in the conference with the apple valley, booomington schools, Hastings etx

problem is per MSHSL edict 6a teams aren’t allowed to schedule themselves into competitive situations. You play who you’re told (only 6a teams) unless you know someone who can get you off.

 

[Some guy]

I am personally more interested in the Friday night games than the Thursday night games this week.

 

[Some guy]

About 700. Wayzata is the largest at about 800 per class.
Here are the high school enrollments per the MSHSL.

Wayzata High School 3276
Minnetonka High School 3198
Eden Prairie High School 2732
Blaine High School 2652
Prior Lake High School 2648
Stillwater Area High School 2636
Edina High School 2628
Champlin Park High School 2474
Shakopee High School 2281
Rosemount High School 2271
Maple Grove High School 2218
White Bear Lake Area High School 2105
Eastview High School 2085
Farmington High School 2082
Burnsville High School 2079
Anoka High School 2037

These numbers are post Free and Reduced lunch factor being factored in I believe

So those aren’t school enrollments they are “school enrollments for classification purposes”

 

[disco]

I don't think Buffalo would leave. That district is growing pretty fast and it's going to be up there with the big schools in the west metro very soon - it's a huge district that stretches all the way to the edge of Maple Grove. They also have really nice new facilities and a beautiful newer high school.

Also, I talked to a friend with kids in the Buffalo district, and it definitely seems like they want to be the next STMA - an enormous west metro school like Maple Grove, Wayzata and Minnetonka, and get away from their old Wright County rivals like Rockford, Delano and Monticello.

 

[Some guy]

Also, I talked to a friend with kids in the Buffalo district, and it definitely seems like they want to be the next STMA - an enormous west metro school like Maple Grove, Wayzata and Minnetonka, and get away from their old Wright County rivals like Rockford, Delano and Monticello.

For sure checks out. They applied to and were turned down by the lake conference multiple times before the MSHSL placed them in that conference. Meanwhile the 5 lake schools complain about how difficult it is to schedule…

 

[disco]

These numbers are post Free and Reduced lunch factor being factored in I believe

So those aren’t school enrollments they are “school enrollments for classification purposes”

I've been trying to find accurate numbers for actual enrollment, but it's difficult. There's a spreadsheet from the state, but it breaks down every school in the state (grade schools on up) and then by grade, so parsing it is more work than I'm willing to do.

 

[disco]

Hopkins should probably be in the conference with the apple valley, booomington schools, Hastings etx

problem is per MSHSL edict 6a teams aren’t allowed to schedule themselves into competitive situations. You play who you’re told (only 6a teams) unless you know someone who can get you off.

I don't really get Hopkins. It's a pretty big district, and the high school enrollment is large.
You can't paint them like Coon Rapids or Park Center, which have a larger transient and low income population. If you look at the district map, it encompasses some upper middle class to wealthy areas of Minnetonka and Golden Valley, and some older, but still nice parts of Plymouth. The only really poorer areas would be south of downtown Hopkins where there are still quite a few run down apartment complexes.

As far as football goes, they should not be as bad as they are, and I suspect some of that is a poor feeder system. Since I coach, I looked into how the youth programs are run in other districts and Hopkins seems kind of weird.

 

[GopherRock]

Also, I talked to a friend with kids in the Buffalo district, and it definitely seems like they want to be the next STMA - an enormous west metro school like Maple Grove, Wayzata and Minnetonka, and get away from their old Wright County rivals like Rockford, Delano and Monticello.

Buffalo was already a big school in the early 90s. They were playing other large suburban schools (Cambridge, Irondale, Torino pre-NWSC) then. That is mostly due to their gigantic area of a district.

STMA didn't make the jump to 4A football until the fall of 2001.

 

[xyz1]

Hopkins, I believe, has fairly large numbers of students coming in from the east, and leaving to go to schools further west or private schools, through open enrollment and other programs, so its student population is more transitory than most, making it harder to have the same kids involved in youth programs all the way through to the high school level. It also has a fair number of immigrant families perhaps less likely to have kids play football in the more working class parts of the district.

 

[Word]

Buffalo was already a big school in the early 90s. They were playing other large suburban schools (Cambridge, Irondale, Torino pre-NWSC) then. That is mostly due to their gigantic area of a district.

Yes - the old North Suburban - Mounds View, Elk River, Irondale, Buffalo, St. Francis, TG, Spring Lake Park, Cambridge with other schools entering and leaving like Fridley, Columbia Heights, North Branch, Monticello.

 

[Some guy]

I don't really get Hopkins. It's a pretty big district, and the high school enrollment is large.
You can't paint them like Coon Rapids or Park Center, which have a larger transient and low income population. If you look at the district map, it encompasses some upper middle class to wealthy areas of Minnetonka and Golden Valley, and some older, but still nice parts of Plymouth. The only really poorer areas would be south of downtown Hopkins where there are still quite a few run down apartment complexes.

As far as football goes, they should not be as bad as they are, and I suspect some of that is a poor feeder system. Since I coach, I looked into how the youth programs are run in other districts and Hopkins seems kind of weird.

They don’t have a lot of “family” population.

the money is old people and early 20s

The families don’t have as much affluence as the town in general


kind of the same situation as apple valley.
kind of the same situation that Richfield, Columbia heights had in the 90s

 

[Some guy]

Hopkins, I believe, has fairly large numbers of students coming in from the east, and leaving to go to schools further west or private schools, through open enrollment and other programs, so its student population is more transitory than most, making it harder to have the same kids involved in youth programs all the way through to the high school level. It also has a fair number of immigrant families perhaps less likely to have kids play football in the more working class parts of the district.

True

 

[AO54]

Should just throw enrollments out the window and promote/relegate teams based on the prior season performance, would work great.

 

[Some guy]

Should just throw enrollments out the window and promote/relegate teams based on the prior season performance, would work great.

Honestly we should do the whole thing like wisconsin does. Schedule more based on geography and rivalries, while avoiding completely off balance matchups.
Choose classes at the end of the season rather than the beginning