Minnesota High School Football Section Championship Matchups

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MNVCGUY said:
There really should be some sort of competitive evaluation that takes place with the bigger schools (6A and 5A). If a 6A team is getting blown out all the time or struggling with numbers they should be moved to 5A. A dominant 5A team should be moved up to 6A. You could look at it every season and maybe give teams the option to move down if they meet certain criteria.

But that is a pipe dream because it would require someone to really do an honest assessment of teams and people would almost certainly complain about it and feel it wasn't fair to their squad.

Setting the classes based on school enrollment is the easiest way to do it, but the competitive balance at 6A is not great right now and there are a lot of bad teams at that level.
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What about Totino-Grace? I think they "should" be 4A by enrollment. I believe they "opted up", but would be criminal for them to be 4A or 5A.

Similar thing should be forced upon SMB.
 

MplsGopher said:
What about Totino-Grace? I think they "should" be 4A by enrollment. I believe they "opted up", but would be criminal for them to be 4A or 5A.

Similar thing should be forced upon SMB.
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TG has regressed. They may need to drop to 5A.
 

The private school enrollment will always be an issue, since they don't draw from a defined area. Obviously open enrollment has mitigated that somewhat, but it's still an issue.
 

MplsGopher said:
Most of the population of the Hopkins district, lives in the city of Minnetonka. Just another of many weird quirks of school district boundaries in the TC.

So guessing that these, probably upper middle class families in Mtka are like ... "wait, what ... we paid all this money ... to be in the Hopkins district???"
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If anyone fits that description I could not have less sympathy for them as it's pretty hard, not to mention pretty stupid, to buy a house and not know what school district it's in.

The Hopkins school district had a very good reputation for a very long time - going back to 1950 when my mom graduated from college and was looking for teaching jobs, according to what she told me. Whether the quality, and reputation, are what they once were I'm not in a position to say.
 

Some guy said:
I also think that 5a football programs are much better than they get credit for.
the top 10 of 5a would be top 20 of 6a most of the last 5 years. It’s not like 5a teams are bad
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I agree with that.

Granted small sample size, I saw Roch Mayo, Mankato West & Owatonna in person, all 5A schools. Only 6A game I have seen is Lakeville South vs Anoka. I would think only West would be able to hang with South (2-3 score game). Eventually their physical size would wear them down, though West has some burners (so does Mayo).

All 3 I think would have beat Anoka, who by definition would be a Top 16 team, having advanced to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

The Owatonna teams 2016-19 might have been able to make the Final 4 even in 6A.
 


to clarify - teams can "opt up" a class if they want to. there are schools in class A who would qualify to play 9-man, but they want to play 11-man, so they opt up.

You cannot "opt down." In a few cases - usually after section re-alignment, I know of teams that played a 9-man schedule in the regular season, because the schedule was already set, but had to move up and play 11-man in the playoffs. True Story - there was a team one year - because of how the MSHSL calculated enrollment for co-op programs - that played a 9-man schedule, went undefeated, and had to move up to AA for the playoffs and got waxed.

And, as noted, life and sports aren't fair. If a program can't compete at a certain level, you can't just let them move down a level. If for example you have a bad 4A program, so you let them go down to 3A, how is that fair to the 3A teams they'll be playing to face a team with much larger enrollment?

There was a team in SW MN that was AA by enrollment. They petitioned the district committee and got moved to a different district where they played a class A schedule - and went 0-8. so moving down didn't help.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
to clarify - teams can "opt up" a class if they want to. there are schools in class A who would qualify to play 9-man, but they want to play 11-man, so they opt up.

You cannot "opt down." In a few cases - usually after section re-alignment, I know of teams that played a 9-man schedule in the regular season, because the schedule was already set, but had to move up and play 11-man in the playoffs. True Story - there was a team one year - because of how the MSHSL calculated enrollment for co-op programs - that played a 9-man schedule, went undefeated, and had to move up to AA for the playoffs and got waxed.

And, as noted, life and sports aren't fair. If a program can't compete at a certain level, you can't just let them move down a level. If for example you have a bad 4A program, so you let them go down to 3A, how is that fair to the 3A teams they'll be playing to face a team with much larger enrollment?

There was a team in SW MN that was AA by enrollment. They petitioned the district committee and got moved to a different district where they played a class A schedule - and went 0-8. so moving down didn't help.
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TG can drop down because they are currently opting up. And according to Some Guy, Coon Rapids was allowed to opt down for at least one season.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
to clarify - teams can "opt up" a class if they want to. there are schools in class A who would qualify to play 9-man, but they want to play 11-man, so they opt up.

You cannot "opt down." In a few cases - usually after section re-alignment, I know of teams that played a 9-man schedule in the regular season, because the schedule was already set, but had to move up and play 11-man in the playoffs. True Story - there was a team one year - because of how the MSHSL calculated enrollment for co-op programs - that played a 9-man schedule, went undefeated, and had to move up to AA for the playoffs and got waxed.

And, as noted, life and sports aren't fair. If a program can't compete at a certain level, you can't just let them move down a level. If for example you have a bad 4A program, so you let them go down to 3A, how is that fair to the 3A teams they'll be playing to face a team with much larger enrollment?

There was a team in SW MN that was AA by enrollment. They petitioned the district committee and got moved to a different district where they played a class A schedule - and went 0-8. so moving down didn't help.
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What poor school had to go from 9-man to AA?
 

Word said:
TG can drop down because they are currently opting up. And according to Some Guy, Coon Rapids was allowed to opt down for at least one season.
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2 for playoffs.
Now more for regular season.

6a is the only class that basically only plays itself for regular season. I say basically because coon rapids and brainerd have been the only 2 exception s
 



xyz1 said:
If anyone fits that description I could not have less sympathy for them as it's pretty hard, not to mention pretty stupid, to buy a house and not know what school district it's in.

The Hopkins school district had a very good reputation for a very long time - going back to 1950 when my mom graduated from college and was looking for teaching jobs, according to what she told me. Whether the quality, and reputation, are what they once were I'm not in a position to say.
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My old manager, since retired, had two daughters graduate from Hopkins, the most recent was about six years ago. I don't think it's a bad district at all. I've been in the high school a few times, and it's really nice, like most of the Lake Conference schools. I would have no problem sending my kids there.

Believe it or not, I actually know two people who bought houses in Plymouth and didn't realize they were in the Osseo district and their kids would be attending Maple Grove - they assumed they were in the Wayzata district.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
And a real beauty - in AA - Pipestone and Maple River at Hastings. That's 217 miles for Pipestone, 93 miles for Maple River (in Mapleton, MN).
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They'll have to get hotel rooms. Hastings is happy to host and has a beautiful stadium but this is ridiculous. I have extra room if parents need to stay in town.
 

discochris said:
Believe it or not, I actually know two people who bought houses in Plymouth and didn't realize they were in the Osseo district and their kids would be attending Maple Grove - they assumed they were in the Wayzata district.
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I know someone that did the same thing. Just north of Providence Academy.
 

discochris said:
What poor school had to go from 9-man to AA?
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at the time, they were called "Southwestern United" - in actuality, it was Heron Lake-Okabena/Round Lake-Brewster.

the issue was that the MSHSL changed the way they counted enrollment for a co-op program and for that year, counted 100% of the enrollment of both schools. Since then, the MSHSL has changed its policy again and now they count 100% of the larger (host) school and 50% of the enrollment of the other school or schools.
 



Now that I think about it, I know someone who open enrolls their kid out of Wayzata into Hopkins for Chinese immersion.
 

So we ordered the stream of the Wayzata-STMA game. It's not terrible. The announcer is pretty good. As in I'd prefer him to PA. (Ok, I'd prefer listening to cat torture over Paul Allen.)

The only thing I wish is that they had a game clock on the screen.
 
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Ope3 said:
I agree with that.

Granted small sample size, I saw Roch Mayo, Mankato West & Owatonna in person, all 5A schools. Only 6A game I have seen is Lakeville South vs Anoka. I would think only West would be able to hang with South (2-3 score game). Eventually their physical size would wear them down, though West has some burners (so does Mayo).

All 3 I think would have beat Anoka, who by definition would be a Top 16 team, having advanced to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

The Owatonna teams 2016-19 might have been able to make the Final 4 even in 6A.
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I think Mankato West could beat any 6A team this year. Not saying they would, but it would not be much if any of an upset.
 

discochris said:
My old manager, since retired, had two daughters graduate from Hopkins, the most recent was about six years ago. I don't think it's a bad district at all. I've been in the high school a few times, and it's really nice, like most of the Lake Conference schools. I would have no problem sending my kids there.

Believe it or not, I actually know two people who bought houses in Plymouth and didn't realize they were in the Osseo district and their kids would be attending Maple Grove - they assumed they were in the Wayzata district.
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Yeah not a bad school. Some built in disadvantages of being a football school though
 

Some guy said:
For sure that happens. They’re in a tough spot. They’re kind of the Burnsville of the west metro but there is no River to slow the inflow of traffic and the next suburb out is wealthier by a higher degree of magnitude
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A lot has been said about wealth disparities between communities. Granted that is a fact, how does that control football talent and outcomes?
 


discochris said:
On the topic of the playoffs.
Has anyone tried the streaming service for the high school games? How is the quality?

I'm not sure I'm going to convince the boy that driving to Park Center to sit on metal bleachers to watch football in 35 degree windy weather is going to be much fun, but I'd like to watch the game.
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The amount of kids playing both ways goes up significantly for 5A and below.
 

discochris said:
What poor school had to go from 9-man to AA?
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Once officiated a team that had to move to 11 man for the playoffs. Spent a significant amount of time clarifying if formations were legal and that 72 couldn’t report as eligible.
 

STMA. knocks off Wayzata 14-7 and Maple Gove pulls away from Woodbury 31-12
 

LesBolstad said:
I think Mankato West could beat any 6A team this year. Not saying they would, but it would not be much if any of an upset.
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On the right night, sure that could happen. West is quite talented, and would
not be overmatched.

I wish their game against St Thomas Academy wasn't at the same time as the Gopher game.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
STMA. knocks off Wayzata 14-7 and Maple Gove pulls away from Woodbury 31-12
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The Wayzata - STMA game was a war of attrition. Wayzata controlled the ball on the ground for most of the game and ended up getting stopped on 4th and 1 at least two times, including one on the goal line in the first. STMA had much more of a passing game - Wayzata almost never passed - they ran basically the same offense I ran coaching fourth grade. Only about 3-4 penalties in the entire game, and one was intentional by STMA on a fourth down (delay of game).

Wayzata's coaching staff completely screwed the pooch on the last drive. They wasted 17 seconds at the end of the game not calling a time out on STMA's 20 yard line and cost themselves an additional play that could have tied the game. I've met Wayzata's head coach and some of the staff, and I really like them a lot, but this was just boneheaded. My wife, who doesn't even like football that much understood what a mistake it was. Not that they would have won the game, but you have to give your kids the chance to make the play.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Once officiated a team that had to move to 11 man for the playoffs. Spent a significant amount of time clarifying if formations were legal and that 72 couldn’t report as eligible.
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At out youth level, we play 9 man. A message went out that for the first time, the grade school teams in our district would be allowed to play in a post-season tournament up in Elk River or Rogers if we so chose. Not sure if anyone did. But we'd have had to teach the kids 11 man football in about a week and a half. I'm sure that would have gone well.
 

Just to show you how quickly STMA got so big: 25 years ago this month, STMA lost the Section 6B final in Holdingford.
 


Ope3 said:
On the right night, sure that could happen. West is quite talented, and would
not be overmatched.

I wish their game against St Thomas Academy wasn't at the same time as the Gopher game.
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I think West wins by at least 21.
 


GopherRock said:
Just to show you how quickly STMA got so big: 25 years ago this month, STMA lost the Section 6B final in Holdingford.
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I imagine several "house farm" communities have experienced similar explosive growth. Would wild guess Shakopee is another one.
 

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