Mel Tucker DID get fired. With cause.

Disagree with this. It is a little better. Michigan state is on the Minnesota tier of jobs more than they’re on the Ohio state tier

Michigan state is the top of tier 2 more than they are tier 1
Michigan State seems like one of the worst jobs in the B1G? If I were a coach, I’d honestly like Minnesota more than about any other job, though the average length of tenure of Iowa would hypothetically be enticing (but for having to live in Iowa, and of course Iowa sucking).
 

@Pompous Elitist why would Brenda get a any (let along big) payday out of this? She's not suing anyone, that I'm aware of?

She only filed a Title IX complain with the school, which has a lower burden of proof than in a civil lawsuit (I think?) and an affirmation of the complaint doesn't provide any kind of tangible award to the victim.
 

Whatever the truth is by firing for cause and settling later for say, half his contract they (MSU) defuse the PR bomb at a school with a legitimately horrendous scandal history. Michigan State gets to find a new, better coach at 50% discount. Brenda will get a big payday. Some men, ok a few men, ok maybe one somewhere out there may be more circumspect in their relationships or relationship choices or how they conduct themselves or even who they engage with beyond pleasantries, or flirt with…still trying to wrap my head around this one. Mel Tucker must be the dumbest person on the planet. Talk about a raft of bad choices, playing with fire. LMAO. Mega Tongue, hold my beer
Not sure they’re going to have to pay 50%
Even if everything is found to be consensual behavior

Mel tucker has admitted to things in public statements that are fireable for cause
 

p
Whatever the truth is by firing for cause and settling later for say, half his contract they (MSU) defuse the PR bomb at a school with a legitimately horrendous scandal history. Michigan State gets to find a new, better coach at 50% discount. Brenda will get a big payday. Some men, ok a few men, ok maybe one somewhere out there may be more circumspect in their relationships or relationship choices or how they conduct themselves or even who they engage with beyond pleasantries, or flirt with…still trying to wrap my head around this one. Mel Tucker must be the dumbest person on the planet. Talk about a raft of bad choices, playing with fire. LMAO. Mega Tongue, hold my beer
Well said. There's a level of lunacy in Mel's behavior that is beyond my comprehension (and I'm way old and worked in a culture where sexual harrassment was not traditionally treated as seriously as it is today. Thankfully that has changed for the better.). Note to guys: Never talk about the state of your marriage with other women. They don't care and I imagine it's the lamest come-on line they hear.

I don't know if Brenda gets a big payday. I frankly don't know how these things work from that end, I believe she was a contract employee and there may be a distinction between contract employees and full university employees. Any labor lawyers in the house? I wouldn't be surprised if she writes a book and hits the lecture circuit.
 

She already does the lecture/speaker circuit. That’s her full time gig and why she was at MSU in the first place.

Assuming it was consensual, why should that be firable? Some have claimed there was a “morality” clause. Sounds legally dubious to me. Who gets to define morality?

Two consenting adults can do anything they want in the privacy of their bedroom and it’s none of your damned business. Certainly none of an employer’s business.
 


Disagree with this. It is a little better. Michigan state is on the Minnesota tier of jobs more than they’re on the Ohio state tier

Michigan state is the top of tier 2 more than they are tier 1
Fair enough. I'd agree its not OSU or Michigan. But its a tier above MN. Look at the fundraising they get there...
 

Fair enough. I'd agree its not OSU or Michigan. But its a tier above MN. Look at the fundraising they get there...
The fundraising they have doesn’t meet the expectations of their fans or national media.

No easier to win there than MN IMO
 

Not sure they’re going to have to pay 50%
Even if everything is found to be consensual behavior

Mel tucker has admitted to things in public statements that are fireable for cause

You’re certain of the legalities? Give me a summary of the argument.
 

@Pompous Elitist why would Brenda get a any (let along big) payday out of this? She's not suing anyone, that I'm aware of?

She only filed a Title IX complain with the school, which has a lower burden of proof than in a civil lawsuit (I think?) and an affirmation of the complaint doesn't provide any kind of tangible award to the victim.

Money changes hands on harassment, assault, hazing 6 figure settlements with far less evidence, or in some cases zero evidence.

I don’t know for certain, but I’d guess we’ll hear about something brewing within 3-4 weeks. I could be wrong.
 



No lawsuit, no settlement. They aren’t going say “hey Brenda, just take some money for no reason at all *wink wink*, have a good one!”

If she’s going to file one, April 2022? What is she waiting for?
 


He hired someone to work with his team. Then had sexual contact with said person.

He hired her? I’m not saying he did or didn’t, just seems like more of an AD function. Arguments over managerial, hiring or firing control etc could be made, but maybe don’t apply.
 

He hired her? I’m not saying he did or didn’t, just seems like more of an AD function. Arguments over managerial, hiring or firing control etc could be made, but maybe don’t apply.

I’m not saying he did or didn’t.

Mel Tucker said he did
So I’m just going with Mel tucker says


If he didn’t that’s gotta be the worst public statements constructed by a lawyer ever
 




I’m not saying he did or didn’t.

Mel Tucker said he did
So I’m just going with Mel tucker says


If he didn’t that’s gotta be the worst public statements constructed by a lawyer ever
Unless I missed it, he doesn't technically say he hired her. He didn't hire her. Michigan State hired her "at his behest". What does that mean? Well, I am sure reasonable people could make arguments on both sides.

Additionally, even if he did "hire" her. That really has two meanings - employer/employee relationship and client/customer relationship. Even if you argued Tucker did HIRE her, it didn't create an employer/employee relationship.

She never worked for him.

What does this all mean? It's hard to say. I do think MSU will get bogged down in discovery and they better hope there aren't emails/texts/teams messages where the "powers that be" are wishing they could find a way to get out of the contract.
 

Unless I missed it, he doesn't technically say he hired her. He didn't hire her. Michigan State hired her "at his behest". What does that mean? Well, I am sure reasonable people could make arguments on both sides.

Additionally, even if he did "hire" her. That really has two meanings - employer/employee relationship and client/customer relationship. Even if you argued Tucker did HIRE her, it didn't create an employer/employee relationship.

She never worked for him.

What does this all mean? It's hard to say. I do think MSU will get bogged down in discovery and they better hope there aren't emails/texts/teams messages where the "powers that be" are wishing they could find a way to get out of the contract.
Yeah you’re right. If there is evidence they created this to get out of the contract it won’t be helpful for them
 

Nor should it.

Head football coach admitting sexual contact with someone being paid by the university.
Said head football coach has a huge buyout, a morality clause, and an average football team.

Regardless if consensual or not, it’s an easy way to get out of that contract. Mel tucker doesn’t dispute facts that are fireable.
Mel is considered to be a very kind and genuine teacher. Coaches and analysts alike comment on his humility and sincerity. This new issue is sad.
I read somewhere that the lawyers are invovolved and he has already filed grievance to get paid. THis won't be over for quite some time

 
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She already does the lecture/speaker circuit. That’s her full time gig and why she was at MSU in the first place.

Assuming it was consensual, why should that be firable? Some have claimed there was a “morality” clause. Sounds legally dubious to me. Who gets to define morality?

Two consenting adults can do anything they want in the privacy of their bedroom and it’s none of your damned business. Certainly none of an employer’s business.
I was thinking larger platform lecture circuit and not talking simply to students on college campuses.
 

Unless I missed it, he doesn't technically say he hired her. He didn't hire her. Michigan State hired her "at his behest". What does that mean? Well, I am sure reasonable people could make arguments on both sides.

Additionally, even if he did "hire" her. That really has two meanings - employer/employee relationship and client/customer relationship. Even if you argued Tucker did HIRE her, it didn't create an employer/employee relationship.

She never worked for him.

What does this all mean? It's hard to say. I do think MSU will get bogged down in discovery and they better hope there aren't emails/texts/teams messages where the "powers that be" are wishing they could find a way to get out of the contract.
Obviously, a lot depends on the provisions of the contract and if Michigan State has a code of conduct that extends beyond employer/employee. But basicallly, contractors are not employees in the sense that hourly or term employees of a university are. That certainly doesn't excuse Mel's misbehavior, but she probably doesn't have the same recourse as an employee would have (unless I am totally mssing something).
 

Enjoy paying a $45 million settlement after a couple years of embarrassing discovery MSU
He may not realize it yet, but Tucker hit the jackpot
 


Enjoy paying a $45 million settlement after a couple years of embarrassing discovery MSU
He may not realize it yet, but Tucker hit the jackpot
Tucker hit the jackpot singing the contract, even if he gets 45 million he is short 25-30 million of what his actual jackpot was
 

The fundraising they have doesn’t meet the expectations of their fans or national media.

No easier to win there than MN IMO
Since 2010 they have 7 10+ win seasons and have finished ranked 7 times. The gophers have done that once. Way easier to win there historically IMO.
 

Since 2010 they have 7 10+ win seasons and have finished ranked 7 times. The gophers have done that once. Way easier to win there historically IMO.
I think if you give the gophers dantonio since 2010 they have the same type of success and if you give MSU Brewster they have the same type of success.

Maybe Minnesota couldn’t pull the cinci coach, I’m not sure, so there is that argument. Saying they’ve had that much success isn’t saying the same thing as it is easier to win.
Dantonio wouldn’t have had less success at Minnesota ImO. I could be wrong

Since 2010 Stanford has had 7 top 10 finishes so I guess it’s easy to win there
 

I think if you give the gophers dantonio since 2010 they have the same type of success and if you give MSU Brewster they have the same type of success.

Maybe Minnesota couldn’t pull the cinci coach, I’m not sure, so there is that argument. Saying they’ve had that much success isn’t saying the same thing as it is easier to win.
Dantonio wouldn’t have had less success at Minnesota ImO. I could be wrong

Since 2010 Stanford has had 7 top 10 finishes so I guess it’s easy to win there
Actually 4, and none since 2016. But point taken numbers can be manipulated to mean lots of things.

Fact is MSU had their coach and we had ours. I’d take Fleck over their current (now former) coach any day of the week.

I just think there are more roads to win at MSU than here.
 

If Tucker had become attracted to an assistant professor at MSU, who had spoken to the team instead of bringing someone outside in as a contractor, I don’t think anything different would have happened?

Faculty, staff, etc. are subject to the Title IX investigation process for such allegations.


What I don’t know (may be a matter of Michigan law?) is if those two scenarios provide different paths to civil lawsuit, either directly against Tucker or against the school.

I wouldn’t think they would, as a layperson, but obviously could be wrong.
 


Easily the most expensive phone sex call ever.
Notice, though, that women who use sex to get ahead - in business, entertainment, even government, are never accused of anything, never get the "Me Too" treatment, but enjoy their ill-gotten gains.
 

The Barry Alvarez protege Mel Tucker has been fired.
Yeah, and we'll see how long this sticks. I mean, they have a hearing in October to "decide whether Tucker violated university policy". So if that isn't decided, then they're going with the excuse that he brought public disrespect and ridicule on the university, per the ESPN story?

Gimme a break, such vague crap like that could be used to get out of any coaching contract then. I mean, what our own coaches allowed to happen in the 4th quarter at NW certainly rises to the charge of "public ridicule" for crying out loud.

And if MSU is going to fight on that take, the public ridicule stuff, and fight that all the way through the court proceedings that Tucker is likely to take up, what coach would want to work for an administration/university that uses such generic terms to get out of "guarantees"?
 

Notice, though, that women who use sex to get ahead - in business, entertainment, even government, are never accused of anything, never get the "Me Too" treatment, but enjoy their ill-gotten gains.
Called how to get to the top by using your bottom.
 

Yeah, and we'll see how long this sticks. I mean, they have a hearing in October to "decide whether Tucker violated university policy". So if that isn't decided, then they're going with the excuse that he brought public disrespect and ridicule on the university, per the ESPN story?

Gimme a break, such vague crap like that could be used to get out of any coaching contract then. I mean, what our own coaches allowed to happen in the 4th quarter at NW certainly rises to the charge of "public ridicule" for crying out loud.

And if MSU is going to fight on that take, the public ridicule stuff, and fight that all the way through the court proceedings that Tucker is likely to take up, what coach would want to work for an administration/university that uses such generic terms to get out of "guarantees"?
He signed the contract that included those generic terms, so if he wanted more specificity about potential fireable offenses, he and his agent should've written them in. They didn't, so this is their painful lesson.
 




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