Matt Miller on Tyler Johnson: Rd 6-7; He’s not fast. He’s not big. He’s not getting good character reports

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PitinoFan said:
Tyler is trending on Twitter. It might even be a good thing that all of this is getting hashed out right now, rather than on the eve of draft day.


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Not sure nfl teams turn to what’s trending on Twitter for insight. More than likely it is folks like us on GH “hashing” it out.
 

Spoofin said:
Not sure nfl teams turn to what’s trending on Twitter for insight. More than likely it is folks like us on GH “hashing” it out.
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Well, a lot of the NFL scouts probably follow him on Twitter. I don’t get it, but it is what it is.
 

Something to consider... The focus here and on Twitter has largely been on the character report issues and understandably so. But let's look at the original tweet:

"What does he do exceptionally well that should make him a better prospect? He’s not fast. He’s not big. He’s not getting good character reports from area scouts. He wasn’t a senior bowl invite."

Miller has some actual reasons in there why he thinks Johnson is a 6th or 7th rounder. The character issues are just one of the four reasons he gives. His primary reasons for grading him so low may be due to the other three reasons he gave. The last one (not a senior bowl invite) appears to be intertwined with the others as it seems that Nagy and Miller share one mind on Tyler. The main reason Nagy and Miller graded Tyler so low may be based on a perceived lack of speed and size.
 

matt said:
Something to consider... The focus here and on Twitter has largely been on the character report issues and understandably so. But let's look at the original tweet:

"What does he do exceptionally well that should make him a better prospect? He’s not fast. He’s not big. He’s not getting good character reports from area scouts. He wasn’t a senior bowl invite."

Miller has some actual reasons in there why he thinks Johnson is a 6th or 7th rounder. The character issues are just one of the four reasons he gives. His primary reasons for grading him so low may be due to the other three reasons he gave. The last one (not a senior bowl invite) appears to be intertwined with the others as it seems that Nagy and Miller share one mind on Tyler. The main reason Nagy and Miller graded Tyler so low may be based on a perceived lack of speed and size.
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He had him graded as a first round pick in October. If your theory is correct, I guess that means his previous grade was based solely on production and PFF grades, or something along those lines. Now, he doesn’t even have him in his top 10 WRs.
 

PitinoFan said:
He had him graded as a first round pick in October. If your theory is correct, I guess that means his previous grade was based solely on production and PFF grades, or something along those lines. Now, he doesn’t even have him in his top 10 WRs.
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It also seems very unlikely that character issues surfaced in the last few months that were significant enough to drop him 5 rounds but were not publicized and did not result in any suspensions while he maintained the public image of a high character person. The whole thing is weird. I think the most likely thing is that Nagy is not a fan of TJ for the reasons in the tweet and Miller bought it hook, line, and sinker.

Nagy does come off as a clueless dope. I read the site @stocker08 posted and is quoted below. The video clips on that website have Nagy waaaay outclassed by the other analysts sitting next to him. He doesn't provide any substantive analysis, just some fluffy crap. That said, the guy has made a living for many years as a NFL scout. He may be a bad scout or he may just have trouble on camera. Or both.

stocker08 said:
This looks like a 'D' graded site....but who knows what the author does.

"Jim Nagy is a Clueless Dope"

vendettasportsmedia.com

Jim Nagy Is A Clueless Dope

Long live the days of Phil Savage running the Senior Bowl. Since Savage left the Senior Bowl operations, he was eventually replaced by Jim Nagy. I really had no expectations for Nagy going in. All I knew is that he used to work for the Seahawks. Nagy took over the Senior Bowl this year and […]
vendettasportsmedia.com vendettasportsmedia.com
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Random 3 Rd mock I saw today has him going in the 1st Rd to GB. Winfield mocked in the 3rd (83 overall)

withthefirstpick.com

2020 NFL Draft: Surprising names sneak into first round of 3 round mock

While many names at the top of the draft board remain the same, a few surprising names find their way into the first round in this 2020 NFL Draft simulatio...
withthefirstpick.com withthefirstpick.com

30. Green Bay Packers: Tyler Johnson, WR, Minnesota
For the first time in a long time, it appears that the Green Bay Packers offense was more successful when running the ball than throwing the ball this season. While part of that may be scheme by head coach Matt LaFleur, it also has to do with the lack of true playmakers at wide receiver for Aaron Rodgers to throw to.

Devante Adams is a sure fire number one receiver, but outside of him, the Packers seem to lack a truly consistent threat on the outside. That changes as they draft Tyler Johnson out of Minnesota here late in the first round.

Another receiver coming off the board earlier than most expect, but Johnson is a very productive receiver who can do it all. At 6-foot-2 and 205 pounds, he’s also the ideal size for a receiver, and has all the attributes to go along with that size to be a true difference maker in the NFL within the right organization and scheme. Selecting Johnson will surely make Rodgers happy, who will get another weapon on the outside to pair with Adams as the team looks to build on the success of 2019.
 

Seems like Doogie has also heard the rumors about Tyler. Weird.

 

matt said:
"What does he do exceptionally well that should make him a better prospect? He’s not fast. He’s not big. He’s not getting good character reports from area scouts. He wasn’t a senior bowl invite."
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That tweet gets more ridiculous every time I read it. What does he do well? Hmmm.

Incredible route runner who always seems to be open.
Even when he's not open, he exhibits unbelievable body control in the air and along the sideline.
Fights through contact and routinely makes catches while being interfered with.
Don't know his 40, but do know he regularly runs away from P5 DBs.
Blocks incredibly hard.

I have to wonder if this "Miller" has watched any film at all. TJ is a tactician.

 

Randy Moss, Tyronn Mathieu and Dalvin Cook had character concerns too. We've seen how it worked out for them. If TJ is who we think he is, he will make his money through performance in the league.
 



There could be some scouts trying to raise doubts about him behind the scenes so that he falls to their team.
 

SKOOKM said:
There could be some scouts trying to raise doubts about him behind the scenes so that he falls to their team.
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Exactly my thought, if they got him in 3rd round it would be a steal.
 

pharmacygopher said:
Random 3 Rd mock I saw today has him going in the 1st Rd to GB. Winfield mocked in the 3rd (83 overall)

withthefirstpick.com

2020 NFL Draft: Surprising names sneak into first round of 3 round mock

While many names at the top of the draft board remain the same, a few surprising names find their way into the first round in this 2020 NFL Draft simulatio...
withthefirstpick.com withthefirstpick.com

30. Green Bay Packers: Tyler Johnson, WR, Minnesota
For the first time in a long time, it appears that the Green Bay Packers offense was more successful when running the ball than throwing the ball this season. While part of that may be scheme by head coach Matt LaFleur, it also has to do with the lack of true playmakers at wide receiver for Aaron Rodgers to throw to.

Devante Adams is a sure fire number one receiver, but outside of him, the Packers seem to lack a truly consistent threat on the outside. That changes as they draft Tyler Johnson out of Minnesota here late in the first round.

Another receiver coming off the board earlier than most expect, but Johnson is a very productive receiver who can do it all. At 6-foot-2 and 205 pounds, he’s also the ideal size for a receiver, and has all the attributes to go along with that size to be a true difference maker in the NFL within the right organization and scheme. Selecting Johnson will surely make Rodgers happy, who will get another weapon on the outside to pair with Adams as the team looks to build on the success of 2019.
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NO.
 

Bob McGinn, a former Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel sportswriter who covered the Packers (I think he has his own website covering the Packers now) used to quote scouts on potential draft picks in his pre-draft coverage and I was always struck about how two scouts could look at the same player and come to radically different viewpoints; not just mildly opposing observations, but widely different synopses (and often times these viewpoints--especially the negative ones--would remark on the player's supposed make-up or behavior as in "he's a hot dog" or "he coasts in practice" and crap like that. My guess is different scouts look at Tyler Johnson and see a different player with a different chance for success. I am extremely curious to see what, if any, the character concerns are. He's been a whistle-to-whistle player for the Gophers and he certainly isn't afraid to block.

What I find odd about Miller's assessment is the comment "he's not big." He's 6-2 and 205 pounds. That's a good-sized WR. We'll find out about his speed at the combine. He suffers in comparison to his teammate Rashod Bateman, who is a classic long-strider with an extra gear, but Johnson has always looked fast enough to me and when combined with his strength and body control, he has a great combination of skills.

In my younger days, I used to follow the draft really closely, but the game has become so much more specialized that teams' approach to the draft seems different to me. I have no idea what round will see Johnson drafted and by whom. But having watched him for four years, my eyeballs tell me that he has the skills to contribute at the next level.
 



matt said:
Something to consider... The focus here and on Twitter has largely been on the character report issues and understandably so. But let's look at the original tweet:

"What does he do exceptionally well that should make him a better prospect? He’s not fast. He’s not big. He’s not getting good character reports from area scouts. He wasn’t a senior bowl invite."

Miller has some actual reasons in there why he thinks Johnson is a 6th or 7th rounder. The character issues are just one of the four reasons he gives. His primary reasons for grading him so low may be due to the other three reasons he gave. The last one (not a senior bowl invite) appears to be intertwined with the others as it seems that Nagy and Miller share one mind on Tyler. The main reason Nagy and Miller graded Tyler so low may be based on a perceived lack of speed and size.
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Well they seem like they're almost the only ones predicting him going that late...
 

Wally said:
Exactly my thought, if they got him in 3rd round it would be a steal.
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That's the only thing that makes sense to me. I am not a talent expert, but geez. It wasn't just the Outback Bowl. Tyler is a walking highlight reel. And knocks on character? Huh? Seems to me that the kid pretty much saved his high school football program from oblivion. I certainly don't recall any off the field issues either.

If I am the Vikes, I'm taking him at the first opportunity. No way he can last through Round 2.

Either way, I will be a big fan of his when he plays at the next level, no matter where he lands.
 

Burns said he asked several members of the coaching staff about the character issues/work ethic stuff. They said it was completely made up. The question is, who made it up? Former coach? Miller? Nagy?
 

pharmacygopher said:
Random 3 Rd mock I saw today has him going in the 1st Rd to GB. Winfield mocked in the 3rd (83 overall)

withthefirstpick.com

2020 NFL Draft: Surprising names sneak into first round of 3 round mock

While many names at the top of the draft board remain the same, a few surprising names find their way into the first round in this 2020 NFL Draft simulatio...
withthefirstpick.com withthefirstpick.com

30. Green Bay Packers: Tyler Johnson, WR, Minnesota
For the first time in a long time, it appears that the Green Bay Packers offense was more successful when running the ball than throwing the ball this season. While part of that may be scheme by head coach Matt LaFleur, it also has to do with the lack of true playmakers at wide receiver for Aaron Rodgers to throw to.

Devante Adams is a sure fire number one receiver, but outside of him, the Packers seem to lack a truly consistent threat on the outside. That changes as they draft Tyler Johnson out of Minnesota here late in the first round.

Another receiver coming off the board earlier than most expect, but Johnson is a very productive receiver who can do it all. At 6-foot-2 and 205 pounds, he’s also the ideal size for a receiver, and has all the attributes to go along with that size to be a true difference maker in the NFL within the right organization and scheme. Selecting Johnson will surely make Rodgers happy, who will get another weapon on the outside to pair with Adams as the team looks to build on the success of 2019.
Click to expand...
Hate to admit it, but TJ is the type of receiver Rodgers loves.
 



What exactly does one have to do to qualify as poor character in the NFL these days? It seems like a bit of a quaint notion in 2020.

We just had a thread on a crazed OBJ that was less than flattering including a minor assault on a facility employee, and going back many years we know the number of questionable characters in the league are legion... Anyone care to comment on what character issue might hold a coach back from drafting a player these days? Allegations of sexual assault is perhaps the only hot button issue I can manufacture they might not want to deal with.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
What exactly does one have to do to qualify as poor character in the NFL these days? It seems like a bit of a quaint notion in 2020.

We just had a thread on a crazed OBJ that was less than flattering including a minor assault on a facility employee, and going back many years we know the number of questionable characters in the league are legion... Anyone care to comment on what character issue might hold a coach back from drafting a player these days? Allegations of sexual assault is perhaps the only hot button issue I can manufacture they might not want to deal with.
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I think where character issues come into play is when they are looking at two similar players and trying to decide which way to go. If they think a kid can play there probably isn't much that would scare away NFL teams completely outside of a guy actually getting arrested at some point.

TJ will have plenty of chances to disprove whatever bad character reports (real or bogus) are out there about him between now and the draft. I highly doubt there is anything with him that would scare a team off that likes his skill set. His biggest issue will be overcoming the leagues obsession with measurables because he doesn't fit neatly into some of those boxes.
 



MNSnowNutt said:
Troy Williamson says “hi” to all of those scouts obsessed with speed.
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Man that was one of those classics where dude was open all the time in college due to speed and it turns out that's all there was too his football :(

Oddly enough that was one of the concerns (among others) with Randy Moss too. Turns out... he had a lot more football in him.
 



Panthadad2 said:
That's an incredible find!
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Lots of people have been trolling him about that one. There are other tweets too. One of them says...”good in college, but not the NFL.”

Perhaps just as big of a miss...Trent Richardson was his #1 graded RB of all time going into the draft.
 




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