If all anyone cares about is playing QB in the NFL, Wisconsin is the most logical choice. Gotcha.
Maryland transfer QB Danny O'Brien a Stinkin' Badger; UPDATED 6/11: O'Brien leaves UW
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If all anyone cares about is playing QB in the NFL, Wisconsin is the most logical choice. Gotcha.
What's up with Wisconsin football and 'feelers'.
Iceland12
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It's not. It's just new.
dpodoll68
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I already addressed it (earlier in this thread, I believe), but the difference is that a JuCo player is being recruited to fill depth and potentially start, just like any freshman recruit (with the implicit understanding that the JuCo is more likely to start right away/earlier given their higher level of growth, maturation, and playing experience). A graduate transfer is most likely a stud, or at the very least a reliable, experienced starter, who is all but given the starting job. If he weren't guaranteed to start, he would go someplace else where he could. The JuCo recruiting process is just like the HS process, with wooing, official visits, phone calls, weighing pros and cons, etc. The grad transfer recruiting process is basically a phone call - Coach: "Hey, we need a [insert position here]. You'll start and play every snap." Player: "Where do I sign?"
I'm not just saying that it's a terrible rule because it's the Vadgers who're involved. I thought the Masoli transfer was ridiculous as well, as I do in all of these circumstances.
Curseislifted33
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Update: Wisconsin still sucks.
I don't have a problem with the rule either I just think there would be a lot less talking about how a team might be abusing it if a player like Wilson would have transferred to somewhere other than Wisconsin. Say somewhere such as Minnesota.
I don't really think it is abusing the rule either. The rule is what it is and a particular school has taken advantage of the rule. Can't see blaming them for that.
I don't think that is true. The Badgers had to recruit against plenty of schools to land both Wilson and O'Brien. In fact, most were convinced O'Brien would go to Penn State. I also don't think there was any guarantee given to O'Brien or Wilson, but I am sure we will disagree on that one. There is no guarantee any player you bring in will produce. Many on this board said Wilson was over rated and would have little impact on the Badgers. In fact, the Badgers had a transfer QB start in 2008. He had to sit out a year because he had not graduated. He wound up being benched and the team went 7-6. I don't remember hearing much clamor about that transfer. Very interesting.
I think if you ask most coaches, they bring in JUCO guys to play. There is no point of bringing in a JC guy that you need to develop, as they are only around for two years. It is the same type of transfer, neither one requiring the player to sit out.
I understand not liking the rule, if that is your opinion and I understand not liking it because it has benefited the Badgers as well. Certainly no harm there. The other stuff cracks me up.
Thanks for the response.
dpodoll68
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Duh. What's your point?
He didn't say it's abusing the rule, he said the rule itself is abusing the system.
Badger_inohiovalley
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Dpodoll....it does me good to see you are alive and well! I love your posts. They are excellent.
Good catch on the Curt Phillips injury. I had lost track since it was his third. For a guy that has barely played, whether he got another ACL was most likely inconsequential to an Elite 11 QB's decision. Curt is a nice kid, and has some skills. But UW fans haven't counted on him in three years now. Bad breaks for him.
However, you are incorrect on Wilson being "immaterial" to this discussion. Wilson's presence prevented a healthy Budmayr (thanks for the spelling help) and Brennan from gaining a year of experience that may have created more security for them going forward. Wilson's presence, though it came after Bart Houston chose Wisconsin, did not assist the younger guys in getting another year of play.
Ironically, Danny O'Brien takes the place of Budmayr in the program, who was not only healthy, but looking good when Houston committed. And Budmayr (ND, NEB and several others) was a higher recruited prospect than O'Brien (E. Carolina and Duke were his only other choices than Maryland).
No...you don't understand big boy football. "Recruiting over the top of your own players" happens all the time at big boy programs. It's not as likely to happen at Minnesota, since you guys don't actually attract very good players. But for example, at Wisconsin, you recruit a John Clay, then follow it with a Montee Ball, and then add James White, Melvin Gordon and Vonte Jackson in subsequent years. Only one can carry the ball at a time. Four of those backs were 4* or higher with the one who wasn't (James White) settling for Freshman of the Year. At Ohio State, you recruit a Justin Zwick, but go further an add a Troy Smith in the very same class. Michigan has Tom Brady, but still adds a Drew Henson.
You guys just don't see this in Minnesota like more successful programs do.
But don't look now!!!! Minnesota has offered two of the top 10 QBs in the Scout database. How could they do that to Phil "The Savior" Nelson?
Talk about immaterial to a conversation! And completely unprovable.
Good catch on the Curt Phillips injury. I had lost track since it was his third. For a guy that has barely played, whether he got another ACL was most likely inconsequential to an Elite 11 QB's decision. Curt is a nice kid, and has some skills. But UW fans haven't counted on him in three years now. Bad breaks for him.
However, you are incorrect on Wilson being "immaterial" to this discussion. Wilson's presence prevented a healthy Budmayr (thanks for the spelling help) and Brennan from gaining a year of experience that may have created more security for them going forward. Wilson's presence, though it came after Bart Houston chose Wisconsin, did not assist the younger guys in getting another year of play.
Ironically, Danny O'Brien takes the place of Budmayr in the program, who was not only healthy, but looking good when Houston committed. And Budmayr (ND, NEB and several others) was a higher recruited prospect than O'Brien (E. Carolina and Duke were his only other choices than Maryland).
No...you don't understand big boy football. "Recruiting over the top of your own players" happens all the time at big boy programs. It's not as likely to happen at Minnesota, since you guys don't actually attract very good players. But for example, at Wisconsin, you recruit a John Clay, then follow it with a Montee Ball, and then add James White, Melvin Gordon and Vonte Jackson in subsequent years. Only one can carry the ball at a time. Four of those backs were 4* or higher with the one who wasn't (James White) settling for Freshman of the Year. At Ohio State, you recruit a Justin Zwick, but go further an add a Troy Smith in the very same class. Michigan has Tom Brady, but still adds a Drew Henson.
You guys just don't see this in Minnesota like more successful programs do.
But don't look now!!!! Minnesota has offered two of the top 10 QBs in the Scout database. How could they do that to Phil "The Savior" Nelson?
Talk about immaterial to a conversation! And completely unprovable.
ruppertflywheel
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Did you come out of that hole in Ohio and see your shadow? I want to know if we're going to get 6 more weeks of your dribble?
BMEnGopher
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Yeah, because Wisconsin are trendsetters in recruiting multiple good players at one position. Gophers could never follow up recruiting someone like say Thomas Tapeh with recruiting a 1,000 yard rusher in say...Marion Barber III. And follow that up with say someone like Laurence Maroney. And even if they could they could never recruit another good player in say, Gary Russell. If only the Gophers could figure out that secret. And I don't believe star ratings matter as much when comparing individual careers after the fact, so I don't really care what stars each recruit had. If only we were as smart as those in Wisconsin who are innovators in the world of recruiting running backs!
Your delusion would be funny if it wasn't so sad and pathetic.
Badger_inohiovalley
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You still don't get the point. Stealing Gary Russell from Ohio U isn't what the big boy programs do. MBIII and Tapeh (a prop 48 kid) were two prospects with limited options outside of their hometown.
But I agree, you guys hit your ceiling with Glen Mason. You guys now envy his guaranteed 6 win seasons.
Breakin' The Plane
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No, you're not here to inflate your ego by boasting about athletic accomplishments of others. Big boy football. Tell us again how you're just here for "the comedy".
Nice troll.
Our ceiling is a national title, something you're program hasn't accomplished yet.
However, i do believe your ceiling was reached last year. That will be the best wisconsin football will ever be in your lifetime and beyond.
Soak in the picture of Wilson spiking the ball with time expiring in a L.
That's what the best team in your school's history accomplished.
ruppertflywheel
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This girl can't wait to become Danny's girlfriend
How did you get ahold of Becky_inohiovalley's wife?
John Galt
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So I had to go and look this up, and it's pretty laughable. Montee Ball, your "big boy football" recruit, had offers from Indiana, Iowa St., Kansas, Missouri, Northwestern, and Stanford (before they were good).
http://rivals.yahoo.com/wisconsin/f...-Ball-73335;_ylt=AoqGXqR0gVkJmRNFrMoF_Ck_u5B4
Way to steal him from the "big boys." LOL.... wow, you guys are amazing....go back to you hole in Buckeye land.
BMEnGopher
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Yeah, and "big boy programs" also don't steal the likes of Tyrann Mathieu from the like of Miami (Ohio) and Southern Miss, right? Cause he had 0 other BCS offers. Good programs find good players, regardless of other offers.
And I'm sure you hope that Minnesota reached it's ceiling with Mason, but to think so is really so beyond stupid that I have to imagine you are either eight (no offense to any eight-year-olds that may happen to read this thread, as I'm sure you would hate to be compared to him) or have spent 95% of your life staying at home with your mother and were unable to get the most basic life experiences. To say that Wisconsin has any reason to have a significantly higher ceiling for a program than Minnesota is just pure denial. The only thing the Badgers have better than the gophers is current program status, and you haven't exactly had that forever.
John Galt
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Badger in Ohio, you forgot another "big boy" recruit, Leo Musso. Coming off the greatest year in your program's history, you landed this 2-star stud from Waunakee who had "big boy" offers from Northern Illionis and South Dakota St. I'm sure you inadvertently forgot about him...
http://rivals.yahoo.com/wisconsin/f...usso-115063;_ylt=AihiSYqzZ_ychf0OK5ODpDI_u5B4
Badger_inohiovalley
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Yep....same offer list as Laurence Maroney.
What you didn't look up was the lists of Clay (OSU, USC, dozens more), James White (MSU, Clemson, among others), Melvin Gordon (Michigan, MSU, Iowa, among many others) and Vonte Jackson (MSU, Michigan, Iowa among others).
Minnesota's chances to land Gary Russell, MBIII and Tapeh greatly reduce with offer lists like the guys Wisconsin got.
Unregistered User
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Wait...so you actually think that on this board you will "win" or prove a point?
Wow, you really are that pathetic, aren't you?
John Galt
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Wow, a few other B1G offers. Maybe you should check out last year's Gopher recruits like Andre McDonald (Ohio St., Iowa, UCLA) and Pirsig (national champion Auburn, Michigan, Ohio St.) and then you can wipe off the drizzle coming down you leg.
BMEnGopher
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And with the exception of White, who had the worst offer list of the four, all were from Wisconsin. Gosh, if only Minnesota could keep players who had those types of offers in State, like Rasheed Hageman, or Andre McDonald, or Jimmy Gjere (had an offer from "big boy program" Wisconsin
clap: bahahaha)), or Lamonte Edwards, or Jonah Pirsig, or Devin Crawford-Tufts.Gosh. If only.
Honestly, we lost a lot of good players in past years because Mason didn't reach out to the high school coaches when he was here. Those relationships to some extent got unchilled by Brewster, now Kill is working to really build them up again. If you are in good with the coach, you will have a better chance at getting a player and that is what screwed us on many occasions. Of course we will lose the occasional player to the Notre Dame's or Standford's but if we can get back to establishing good relationship with the high schools we will have an immensely better ability to recruit instate. Hell we did well last year and we flat out sucked for most of the year!
dpodoll68
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If I don't understand "big boy football" because I'm a Gopher fan, you don't understand it as a Becky fan either. Wisconsin is not "big boy football" as much as you'd like it to be and like to pretend that it is.
No, it doesn't. Every example you cited is a case of continuing to recruit at positions of depth and continuing to reload with players that you recruited and developed on your own. Every worthwhile program does this. And it's not what we're talking about here.
For example, did anyone question the decision by Pete Carroll to recruit Matt Barkley when he already had Aaron Corp and Mitch Mustain on the roster? No. No one is going to turn down a 5-star recruit who wants to play at your school. And recruiting freshmen (with the occasional JuCo as needed) is an acceptable and long-held method of player acquisition. All three were given a fair shot to win the starting job, and the best man won. No one is going to begrudge a younger player beating out an older player on his own merits. It happens at every school, every year, and at many positions. But, again, that's not what we're talking about here.
Now, let's say, in a hypothetical universe, Jimmy Clausen graduated early from ND and wanted to come back home to play his final 2 seasons for USC. He makes his decision in March, after Barkley signs. Would that be excoriated as a dick move? Of course it would've, because it would've been a dick move, just like this is. Carroll wouldn't have been doing anything illegal, but it would've been a dick move (just like this is), and Barkley wouldn't have been given a shot to see the field his first 2 seasons, the same fate that has befallen Houston now. O'Brien isn't coming to Deer F*cker Country to sit on the bench. You really think Burnt and Co. were telling Houston, "We really want you to sign here, but just know that we're going to sign an upperclassman in 6 weeks and he's going to play every meaningful snap for us during your first two seasons. But hey, please come here anyway!"
I've never heard even the homeriest of Gopher fans call Phil Nelson "The Savior", so nice straw man you've constructed. I hope the Gophers do continue to recruit the best QB they can get each and every year. Again, this is a proven and acceptable method of player acquisition in college football. I'm confident that Jerry Kill and his staff can sign and develop their own QBs just fine. Burnt must not be very confident in he and his new staff's ability to do so since he's scouring the waiver wire for his newest FA acquisition each and every season.
No, it isn't immaterial. In your fantasy world, you like to pretend that Wisconsin plays "big boy football" and that it's relevant on the national scene. It doesn't, and it isn't. Just because the program is currently better than Minnesota doesn't make it "big boy football". One win over the worst Ohio St. team in at least a decade doesn't make you a "big boy football" program. Prepare to resume getting your annual ass-kickings from Urban Meyer and Co., the coaches for the only true "big boy football" program currently in the Big Ten.
Badger_inohiovalley
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Dpodoll....I'll have to check your essay later. Love talking UW sports with you guys though.
Badger_inohiovalley
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No....I'm here to talk Badger football, like the rest of you are!
Bob_Loblaw
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When Bart Houston signed on to play at WI he knew that Phillips had recently blew out his knee and that the staff had absolutely no confidence in Budamayr or Brennon. I don't blame WI for getting Wilson (or even O'Brien). Of the programs who were recruiting Houston, the WI depth chart looked by far the easiest to climb.
Huh? Of course RBs are going to keep signing on at WI. The RB position is grossly different than the QB position. Look at 2010, WI had 3 guys go for 1,000 yards (I believe). It's a completely different argument for a QB than it is for a RB or a position where multiple players get multiple snaps.
It's funny when WI fans compare their program to Ohio St and Michigan.
The Brady - Henson stuff? Again, you swung and missed terribly. Henson's first yeat at Michigan was 1998, by then Brady was already a RS-JR. Thanks for making my point though in bringing up Henson. Henson was going to go to FSU, but backed out when Weinke quit baseball and joined the Seminoles. Henson must not have played "big boy football".
Again, it's over your silly paranoid head. I have said multiple times that I don't blame WI for bringing in as much talent as they can. I don't blame them for getting Wilson and O'Brien at all. My entire argument was to point at how silly and delusional you are to think that WI recruits don't look at their potential PT when being recruited. Your "big boy football" comment is just so typical of a paranoid troll pecking away at his computer trying to describe what makes some college football players tough and other ones not so tough.
Breakin' The Plane
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No, you're here to inflate your ego by puffing out your chest and talking up a football team like you're the coach, quaterback and shutdown corner all rolled into one. Please go on about "Big Boy football" and winning. While you're at it, why don't you post a picture of the Big Ten championship ring that I'm sure you so proudly wear?
Badger_inohiovalley
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Badger in Ohio, you forgot another "big boy" recruit, Leo Musso. Coming off the greatest year in your program's history, you landed this 2-star stud from Waunakee who had "big boy" offers from Northern Illionis and South Dakota St. I'm sure you inadvertently forgot about him...
http://rivals.yahoo.com/wisconsin/f...usso-115063;_ylt=AihiSYqzZ_ychf0OK5ODpDI_u5B4
No, I most certainly did not forget Leo Musso, who would be a high end recruit in your class. You did forget Leo's offer from Pittsburgh. He was a kid Wisconsin wanted to sneak in as a preferred walk-on....like Jared Abbrederis, the top WR returning in the Big Ten, and Ricky Wagner, one of the top tackles in college football this coming season. Leo was given an offer from Pittsburgh when Chryst left for there.....probably because he knew they were trying to sneak Leo through - so Wisconsin had to offer him or see him leave for Pittsburgh. In addition to that, I was talking about Running Backs. While Leo played RB in HS, he was recruited as an athlete and will most likely see the field in other places. His HS teammate, Jack Russell is a preferred walk-on who Pitt also offered, but he turned down Pitt. What can I say...the kid likes winning!
But in order to back up my claim that Leo Musso would be a high end recruit for Minnesota, I found this assembled list of actual reported offers for Minnesota commits from Scout and Rivals. A class of 27 with only SEVEN (if you count the guy with a Syracuse offer) getting BCS offers is probably a frustration. Accounting for the fact that Phil Nelson was a early commit, and assuming he'd have drawn some more interest, one could conclude that Leo would have been a top 9 recruit for you guys with his UW and Pitt offers!
CB Youshoub Timms (FL) – FAU, Troy, Syracuse, UCF, So. Miss.
WR Andre McDonald (MN) – AZ, Illinois, Iowa, ISU, MSU, OSU, UCLA, Vandy
OT Ben Lauer (MN) – none reported
QB KJ Maye (AL) – So. Alabama, Jacksonville State, Murray State, LA Tech
DT Roland Johnson (SC) – Akron, CSU, MTSU, Toledo, Troy
WR Duke Anyanwu (MN) – Air Force, N. Iowa, S. Dakota State, North Dakota
S Damarious Travis (FL) – None reported
LB Antonio Johnson (OH) – Toledo, Miami (OH), Kent State, BGSU, Buffalo, Ball State, Akron, Eastern Michigan
CB Martez Shabazz (TX) – Baylor, Lamar, S. Alabama, La-Monroe, Western Kentucky
DE Lincoln Plsek (TX) – None reported
CB Briean Broddy (KS) – None reported
DE Alex Keith (MO) – None reported
CB Jeremy Baltazar (TX) – None Reported
RB James Gillum (LA) – LA Tech
WR Jamel Harbison (NC) – Clemson, NCSU, So Carolina, Vandy, VT, Wake, WVU
RB Roderick Williams (TX) – None Reported
OT Jonah Pirsig (MN) – Auburn, IL, IN, IA, ISU, Miami, Michigan, MSU, OSU, WIS
LB Jack Lynn (IL) – Ball State, Eastern Michigan, Illinois State, W. Illinois, W. Michigan
DT Jordan Hinojosa (FL) – MSU, W. Michigan
OG Isaac Hayes (MN) – Air Force, Army, Navy, Boise, Oregon State, VT, W. Michigan, WY
QB Mitch Leidner (MN) – Northern Iowa
LB Nick Rallis (MN) – None reported
WR Eric Murray (WI) – None reported
DE Scott Ekpe (TX) – None reported
WR Isaac Fruechte (MN) – None reported
TE Maxx Williams (MN) – None reported
QB Philip Nelson (MN) – None reported