Lets Calm Down About the Offense

I know this is a different TCU defense, but last year here is what they did against ranked teams. I did not include Baylor because that game was a video game joke. And I added Texas because, well...**** Texas.

RankSchoolQBC/AttYdsTDINT
4OUTrevor Knight14/3530912
15Okie StDaxx Garman10/2513202
20WVUClint Trickett15/2616212
7K St.Jake Waters20/3729121
NRTexasTyrone Swoopes20/3420014

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So let's get to conference play before we declare this offense dead.
 

You clearly haven't watched Mitch Leidner then. Those are the facts.

Hum? Wow! It is nice to know that we now have another GopherHole expert. You can always tell who that are. They are the ones who say that they know what the facts are. Therefore they are right. Obviously he has done an excellent job of convincing himself.:clap:
 

Put me on the list that I was more concerned about our OL then our QB. And put me in the group that watches football and understands it. So I am guessing that puts me with the smart guy in this thread?

This. Put me in this group as well.


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Mitch may be a great kid and a great leader, but he is simply not a very good QB. Panics under pressure and has still not learned to throw the ball away. His ball security issues cost us a chance to win this game with the gift fumble. He is so wildly inconsistent throwing the ball. Typically he bounces passes on the easiest throws. He is too slow too make a difference with his feet against better defensive teams. You need a playmaker at that position to hide our other deficiencies. Kill and co have done a poor job recruiting and coaching the most critical position on the team. Compare this to our DB development. Perhaps our QB coach is not up to coaching at this level?
 

Mitch may be a great kid and a great leader, but he is simply not a very good QB. Panics under pressure and has still not learned to throw the ball away. His ball security issues cost us a chance to win this game with the gift fumble. He is so wildly inconsistent throwing the ball. Typically he bounces passes on the easiest throws. He is too slow too make a difference with his feet against better defensive teams. You need a playmaker at that position to hide our other deficiencies. Kill and co have done a poor job recruiting and coaching the most critical position on the team. Compare this to our DB development. Perhaps our QB coach is not up to coaching at this level?

I don't understand how he can be blamed for that fumble. The d-lineman was practically unblocked. I get that some people think Leidner is the worst QB ever, but there is no way that was his fault.
 


I don't understand how he can be blamed for that fumble. The d-lineman was practically unblocked. I get that some people think Leidner is the worst QB ever, but there is no way that was his fault.

This. If you don't understand football but using things against Leidner that aren't correct you expose yourself as being on the not-so-smart guy's side in this thread. Oleboy said you can make an argument against Leidner if you don't like him. But if you say he gave up a gift fumble b/c our LT got beat on his blind side you just ruined your ability to be taken seriously by those who watch, study and understand that game.
 

I was one of those questioning you. I don't mean to pick on you. There's just a rash of posters who describe Leidner as poor, horrible, terrible or worst ever. Another group, of which I'm a part, view him as a work in progress who definitely needs to show steady and sustained improvement as he begins his junior year. I was frustrated at times watching him yesterday, but I was also very encouraged by his last scoring drive. If he can be that guy on a more regular basis, I'd be more than satisfied. The fact is, we've seen it so we know he can do it. What remains to be seen is will he do it consistently. I'm willing to watch and see. Excuse me if I tune you and those others out in the meantime.

He is in his fourth year in the program, his third year of significant playing time, and his second year as the starting QB. He can only be a work in progress for so long. People are definitely overreacting, he isn't terrible or useless, or anything like that. Furthermore, he wasn't helped out much by his line or receivers. But when we have a team on the rise, coming off its best season in a long time, a huge home game to open the year, and an experienced redshirt upperclassmen at QB to led the offense, I expect a better performance out of the quarterback.
 

I can't believe the disdain and the bitching & whining about Mitch Leidner in spite of consecutive 8-5 seasons for the first time in years. He is the best we've got at this juncture. He'll get better as the OL and the rest of the supporting casts get better. He may not throw tight spirals, but he is a leader and is competitive as h%ll. If any of the current backups where any better, they would have jumped over Mitch.

Jerry Kill and company had to focus on defense and special teams first in the sorry state that the football program was left by Brewster. They knew a good defense is the foundation for turning the program around.

Be patient. It takes time to attract and recruit good QBs and other position players. You have to stabilize the program first to make coming here attractive. Now, we have two good promising QBs in a row in Croft and Poljan. If you haven't notice, our recruiting class ratings are getting better each succeeding year.

Prospects are starting to notice the Gopher's ascension. Kids are noticing that there are four players in this year's NFL draft. OSU has five and MSU has four. That is a testament to the coaching job and the direction of the program.

Jerry Kill is doing it the right way by changing the culture.

In Kill We Trust!
 

I missed the game and came on here before watching. I expected the worst. I then watched the game yesterday. Wow, talk about over reaction! This team will win a minimum of 8 games again this year. Yes there was a fumble here, a missed block or assignment there, but this team is athletic and ready to have a fun season.

First game is the last game you want to be overreacting to.


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I can't believe the disdain and the bitching & whining about Mitch Leidner in spite of consecutive 8-5 seasons for the first time in years. He is the best we've got at this juncture. He'll get better as the OL and the rest of the supporting casts get better. He may not throw tight spirals, but he is a leader and is competitive as h%ll. If any of the current backups where any better, they would have jumped over Mitch.

Jerry Kill and company had to focus on defense and special teams first in the sorry state that the football program was left by Brewster. They knew a good defense is the foundation for turning the program around.

Be patient. It takes time to attract and recruit good QBs and other position players. You have to stabilize the program first to make coming here attractive. Now, we have two good promising QBs in a row in Croft and Poljan. If you haven't notice, our recruiting class ratings are getting better each succeeding year.

Prospects are starting to notice the Gopher's ascension. Kids are noticing that there are four players in this year's NFL draft. OSU has five and MSU has four. That is a testament to the coaching job and the direction of the program.

Jerry Kill is doing it the right way by changing the culture.

In Kill We Trust!

To your first part I think the disdain and disappointment is less about Leidner and more about the fact that he is still the best option we have. The past few seasons have been nice but could have been even better with more consistent play on offense. Fair or not the QB gets most of the credit or blame for how the offense does. Mitch is what he is, an average QB and game manager, what the team needs is the guy that can take it to the next level. The staff needs to find this guy and to this point they have not. Streveler doesn't seem to be it, Croft and Poijan (assuming he signs) were/are both lightly recruited by the programs we are competing against (doesn't mean they won't pan out but QB is one position I would really like to see competitive offers from).

I disagree with the it takes time to recruit good skill players argument. The team has been far worse off in the past then it is right now and we have attracted better QB's and WR's then the current crop on our roster. Kill and his staff have shown a real ability to identify players that fit their system on defense but have not had nearly the same level of success on offense to this point. You can focus on finding players for both at the same time, it is not an either or thing.

They are building things the right way and have the program on a solid foundation. Now we get to find out if this where it peaks or if they can bring in the kind of talent necessary to push things over the top to the next level we have all be hoping to see for decades now.
 

It could be worse, we could have Penn St. offense. Good God almighty, they are bad.
 

Mitch may be a great kid and a great leader, but he is simply not a very good QB. Panics under pressure and has still not learned to throw the ball away. His ball security issues cost us a chance to win this game with the gift fumble. He is so wildly inconsistent throwing the ball. Typically he bounces passes on the easiest throws. He is too slow too make a difference with his feet against better defensive teams. You need a playmaker at that position to hide our other deficiencies. Kill and co have done a poor job recruiting and coaching the most critical position on the team. Compare this to our DB development. Perhaps our QB coach is not up to coaching at this level?

Stick to slower games......like UNO. If you think that fumble was Leidner's fault......then you are beyond help.
 

The team has been far worse off in the past then it is right now and we have attracted better QB's and WR's then the current crop on our roster.
Yeah, the guys are going to class, good citizens, lots of men being made that you'd love to have marry your daughter, some are going to the NFL, the team is winning more than it has in decades, we're giving teams like TCU and OSU a run for their money...but, it's probably time for a few changes.

I'd start by getting rid of all the offensive coaches, and probably, Kill, too since he hired them. Next, Mitch should be cut and we should give some of the other guys a chance for a game or two to see what they can do. Ben Lauer obviously needs to have his scholarship pulled. That missed block probably cost us this game. Roderick with his dropped pass and fumble, should never see the field again. BBC's guy scored the first TCU TD. Bench him. In fact, going back over the replay, I saw about 15 other guys who made bad play, or failed to make a good one when they should have. Bench them, too. It's about time we started getting the kind of performances we deserve. Guys like you, sonnygarcia, beavergopher, Rodney's Open, and a host of others I don't want to take the time to list deserve better because your bitter, negative, fickle, disloyal attitudes are things to be proud of and how we should be teaching our children to behave. Speaking of that, do you guys have children?
 




I don't understand how he can be blamed for that fumble. The d-lineman was practically unblocked. I get that some people think Leidner is the worst QB ever, but there is no way that was his fault.

+ 1-million. The DE basically beat him to that spot. ML7 owns .001% of the blame for that fumble.
 

In real life, I work in the media and have interviewed hundreds, if not thousands of coaches over the years. I would say 98% of the FB coaches I talk to make the same point - teams are built around the Offensive and Defensive lines. O-Line play is key to the whole offense - and O-line play relies heavily on timing and cohesion. By definition, you cannot take two starters out of the game, flip your RT to LT during the game, and expect timing and cohesion. Great lines develop when the same 5 guys play together for an entire season (or in the pros, multiple seasons).

And the thing is - O-line play impacts the passing game as much as the running game. Passing is all about timing. The QB takes a certain drop, the receivers run a certain pattern, and the throw must be made at the right time and rhythm to arrive at the right point on the field for a completion. If the O-line does not give the QB time to set up, or if the QB has to keep moving in the pocket, the timing goes out the window, and the offense goes into scramble mode.

If I was going to criticize Leidner, I would say that (at least to me), it does not appear that he is a good improviser. When the play has good timing, he can look good. When the timing breaks down, that is when Leidner has the footwork issues and/or makes poor choices. Also, Leidner is often at his best on play action. When the running game bogs down, the defense can ignore the run fake and drop into coverage more quickly.

Against TCU, take Leidner out of the game, and insert Steveler, Parra, Croft, or Elmer Fudd, and the offense would have (IMHO) had the same issues, because of the O-line play.
 



We could also have Texas' offense. How they can be this bad with so much talent is beyond me.
 

This Saturday, the first CFB Saturday, should give everyone perspective. We good.
 

He is in his fourth year in the program, his third year of significant playing time, and his second year as the starting QB. He can only be a work in progress for so long. People are definitely overreacting, he isn't terrible or useless, or anything like that. Furthermore, he wasn't helped out much by his line or receivers. But when we have a team on the rise, coming off its best season in a long time, a huge home game to open the year, and an experienced redshirt upperclassmen at QB to led the offense, I expect a better performance out of the quarterback.

OK, I guess there are many ways to spin it. In my world, Leidner just played the first game of his junior season, which means he still had the majority of his career as a starting quarterback ahead of him (barring injury or benching in favor of the 2nd or 3rd stringer). Sounds like in your world that makes him a finished product. I'm still thinking he may show us bigger and better things, even though I'm not actually predicting he will. All I'm saying is I haven't written him off yet.
 


If you want to watch a bad offense, watch Texas. I don't know how they can be this bad with a bunch of 4 and 5 star players (including their QBs).
 

So many straw man arguments being used in this thread by both sides. Personally, I see Mitch as a below average quarterback because he makes too many mistakes for a guy who doesn't make any "wow" plays. If he was just inaccurate, but had good pocket awareness and was a good decision maker he'd arguably be an average QB. If he was inaccurate and made some poor decisions, but made big plays with his feet, then he'd arguably be an average QB. That doesn't mean he should be benched or that he was the sole/main reason for the loss to TCU. By all accounts Mitch is both a very good leader and a tough kid, so he's pretty much aces in the intangibles department. I think this offense can be good enough with Leidner at the helm to win 8-9 games this year, but the margin for error in a number of games will be slim.
 

So many straw man arguments being used in this thread by both sides. Personally, I see Mitch as a below average quarterback because he makes too many mistakes for a guy who doesn't make any "wow" plays. If he was just inaccurate, but had good pocket awareness and was a good decision maker he'd arguably be an average QB. If he was inaccurate and made some poor decisions, but made big plays with his feet, then he'd arguably be an average QB. That doesn't mean he should be benched or that he was the sole/main reason for the loss to TCU. By all accounts Mitch is both a very good leader and a tough kid, so he's pretty much aces in the intangibles department. I think this offense can be good enough with Leidner at the helm to win 8-9 games this year, but the margin for error in a number of games will be slim.

I agree with this. You watch UCLA's Rosen in his FIRST college game as a pure freshman just dominate. So to say Leidner is only a junior is ludicrous. I don't blame Leidner for the loss. I think Williams contributed more to the loss than he did. But I expect more out of Leidner.
 

Leidner is not a an average QB. He's really really bad. He can't throw it deep and he can't really throw it short. He can't run that fast and he can't read the playclock. Is he a good person? Probably. Does he work hard? Absolutely.

But he's still a bad college QB. Sure look at his stats of almost 200 yards and a td and say, "See! He isn't that bad." That's great. The fact is he is Ponder-like bad.

I like the promise of the rest of the offense. I think they have some young talent at WR that could pan out and I think we'll be fine at RB over the next 4 years. Just need that final piece.

Oh Mommy, Mommy, our QB is horrible and some of the other guys won't agree. OMG. Did you check your eyes and brain at the door? What is it you don't get about herds of defensive players in the offensive backfield, or receivers who drop swing passes like the ball's been stored in a forge or other receivers who don't come back to bail out their QB? Well, maybe you're on the right track. Let's all pop open another beer and pretend we're watching football.
 

I agree with this. You watch UCLA's Rosen in his FIRST college game as a pure freshman just dominate. So to say Leidner is only a junior is ludicrous. I don't blame Leidner for the loss. I think Williams contributed more to the loss than he did. But I expect more out of Leidner.
I'm not following your line of reasoning here. Some guys are gifted and natural quarterbacks who will impress right out of the gate. That sure ain't Leidner. Some guys who are much less gifted, will continue to develop and become much better than they were in year one and year two. I'm hoping that's Leidner. Are you mad that Leidner doesn't fall into the first category? Are you mad that Kill hasn't recruited the same calibre QB as the UCLA guy? Do you think guys like me are arguing against going out and getting elite quarterbacks? Try to follow along here. All I'm saying is we got what we got and I hope the guy we got gets better, and then I hope we keep finding better guys after him.
 

So many straw man arguments being used in this thread by both sides. Personally, I see Mitch as a below average quarterback because he makes too many mistakes for a guy who doesn't make any "wow" plays. If he was just inaccurate, but had good pocket awareness and was a good decision maker he'd arguably be an average QB. If he was inaccurate and made some poor decisions, but made big plays with his feet, then he'd arguably be an average QB. That doesn't mean he should be benched or that he was the sole/main reason for the loss to TCU. By all accounts Mitch is both a very good leader and a tough kid, so he's pretty much aces in the intangibles department. I think this offense can be good enough with Leidner at the helm to win 8-9 games this year, but the margin for error in a number of games will be slim.

(1) What makes an average FBS QB?
(2) What makes an average B1G QB?

I'm curious.
 

I agree with this. You watch UCLA's Rosen in his FIRST college game as a pure freshman just dominate. So to say Leidner is only a junior is ludicrous. I don't blame Leidner for the loss. I think Williams contributed more to the loss than he did. But I expect more out of Leidner.

The guy at UCLA is better. What does that mean or have to do with anything?
 

During the TCU game, it was announced that it was the fourth year anniversary of Jerry Kill with the program.

Did you remember way way back during one of his early press conferences after taking the helm, when Jerry Kill said the program was in a worst state than originally thought? He said then that it would take five years to right the ship.

He wasn't BSing us. He laid out a plan and a vision for the program. By golly, I think we are almost there.

As long suffering Gopher fans (myself included), I think we have battered man child syndrome. It will take years of Jerry Kill therapy to cure us. Over the years, we have been conditioned like Pavlovian dogs to look for the worst and expect the worst.
 




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