Lets Calm Down About the Offense

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bga1 said:
I'm not a football poster but I always watch the games. Leidner is not a BAD quarterback, but he is at best average, a bit of a statue in the pocket, a below average thrower and a better than average runner because he is so strong and tough. The problem is not how bad he is, but that he is average or below average on a very good football team. It sticks out like a sore thumb that this team could take a big step up with a better quarterback. In the past we have had similar quarterbacks leading below average to average teams and though fans complained, it was arguable that the gap between where we were and being great wasn't the quarterback. Now it's pretty clear.
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Good observation. Leidner is an average player on an above average team.

It's tough since QB is such a singular position. Other positions have a lot more leeway from a recruiting/development sense. QB under performs and there's usually not a better option; other positions there are several guys that can sub in and out.
 

nsmike said:
One very positive sign for the offense is that, they successfully executed the two minute offense against a good defense, I know it was too little too late, but they never did that last year.
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Mitch is more comfortable in the hurry up and passing more. The problem is a banged up OL and young WR's work against it a bit.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 


bga1 said:
I'm not a football poster but I always watch the games. Leidner is not a BAD quarterback, but he is at best average, a bit of a statue in the pocket, a below average thrower and a better than average runner because he is so strong and tough. The problem is not how bad he is, but that he is average or below average on a very good football team. It sticks out like a sore thumb that this team could take a big step up with a better quarterback. In the past we have had similar quarterbacks leading below average to average teams and though fans complained, it was arguable that the gap between where we were and being great wasn't the quarterback. Now it's pretty clear.
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Disagree. I think he's an average QB on an average offense. More to the point I think people separate QB play from the rest of the offense more than anywhere else. Casual fans could easily see that an RB is struggling because there are no holes to run through or a WR isn't getting accurate passes. However people can't seem to see that a QB isn't a stand alone player. They can't seem to get that having a make shift line and poor protection makes it hard for him to do his job. They can't tell if his first read is covered or if his WRs aren't getting a ton of separation. They can't see that if the running game isn't going the DC will ignore it and draw up defenses specifically designed to confuse not just the QB but the WRs and force certain throws. This is a good team with an excellent defense and a mediocre offense right now. Mitch isn't noticeably holding the offense back but people now expect the QB to make up for the mediocrity of others
 



stocker08 said:
No...those are opinions.
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A qb either has a good arm or doesn't. It's not an opinion. For instance, Aaron Rodgers throws a great deep ball. Christian Ponder throws a bad deep ball. I don't need to provide statistical evidence. Those are facts. We all know it.
 

Rodney's Open said:
Lol I love it how you spin it like you are the rational one...
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I'm pretty sure there's significantly more people on his side than yours...

Especially after you've demonstrated the paper-thin depth of your argument.
 

Here's the thing. Although they've clearly stated that at least three backs will contribute, our coaches have stated that Nugget was the number one back. A majority of posters over the past 8 months have gathered behind Nugget and have stated that he will be a solid successor to Cobb, although certainly not as good as Cobb.

Within minutes after the game, posters took away from the game that Smith should be our number one back and Nugget was a big disappointment. For some reason it's okay to many GH'ers that this type of analysis and decision making is occurring. But when it comes to posters wanting to see another QB play an entire game to prove himself, the majority of GH'ers state in unison that "Leidner gives us the best chance to win".

In other words, things happen during games that cannot be anticipated through practices and camps. I understand we're talking about a more critical position at QB. But, nobody on here actually knows what would happen if Streveler or one of the other QBS got a game or two to be the QB for the entire game. I'm not saying that they'd do any better. But you would think that the coaches would want to see what these guys could do during an entire game. They may fail miserably. On the other hand they may surprise their coaches. Smith comes away from the game as the guy every one wants to see tote the ball. Nugget comes away from the game shunned by several folks on here. Don't you think it's possible that the same thing could happen at the QB position? I for one think Streveler can drive a defense crazy with his running dimension and speed. If he can't complete a forward pass, then "no" he can't be the QB. But let's give him one full game to prove himself.
 



MinneStoa said:
I'm pretty sure there's significantly more people on his side than yours...

Especially after you've demonstrated the paper-thin depth of your argument.
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There can't be more people on the Leidner bandwagon than not.

Also, I could go ahead and look up videos and provide statistics, but we all watch the games. It'd be like putting together an argument on why Ponder is so bad? What's the point if it's so obvious?
 

Rodney's Open said:
There can't be more people on the Leidner bandwagon than not.

Also, I could go ahead and look up videos and provide statistics, but we all watch the games. It'd be like putting together an argument on why Ponder is so bad? What's the point if it's so obvious?
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Given how adamant you are about how terrible he is, looking this all up should be trivial. Yet you refuse to.

It's pretty telling.
 

Just watched the replay of the entire game, and that last drive in the no-huddle was damn impressive, and Leidner was too. Yeah his throws
look like dying ducks at times, but he was accurate and had impeccable timing, especially on the KJ TD. If a WR can touch the ball, he can catch the ball...even it the thing is end over end.. I also watched a lot of replays of his bad misses, all but one he had the RDE on his back or with an arm around him. We had severe problems with protection, especially early on. And as the poster said, Boykin (a bleeping heisman candidate) had some bad misses, too. That's what happens in the first game of the year on primetime tv.

Takeaways:
We're going to have an impressive running game, especially when were healthy up front
We need to get healthy up front, out- Campion, Lauer, Duke and Plsek.
We have WRs making plays, going for the ball.
We're going to have a stout defense, as long as they play hyped up every game
That crowd was AWESOME! I don't anticipate seeing that every home game, but should
be that impressive on Oct 31st (especially if we get gameday) and vs Wisky.
 

MinneStoa said:
Given how adamant you are about how terrible he is, looking this all up should be trivial. Yet you refuse to.

It's pretty telling.
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Lol because the Gophers get so much publicity and college football videos so easily accessible. I'm adamant because I love this school and would love this team to take the next step. It's not happening with #7 at the position.

And why haven't any of the people that have responded in this forum post evidence disputing my claims? That should be a lot easier considering there is a video made of only good plays after every Gophers game.

It's fine whatever. If you guys can't tell from watching every game, that's fine. I'll be done.
 



People are attacking people for thinking Leidner is terrible? I didn't know there were people out there who didn't think Leidner was terrible.
 

Against an undersized and rebuilt unproven d I expected a better offensive showing but then again they are ranked number 2 for a reason.
 

I thought Mitch was better than last year, and that you have a great D. Many wins ahead for you guys. I enjoyed it all. Thanks.
 

Put me on the list that I was more concerned about our OL then our QB. And put me in the group that watches football and understands it. So I am guessing that puts me with the smart guy in this thread?
 

DoubleAlum said:
Here's the thing. Although they've clearly stated that at least three backs will contribute, our coaches have stated that Nugget was the number one back. A majority of posters over the past 8 months have gathered behind Nugget and have stated that he will be a solid successor to Cobb, although certainly not as good as Cobb.

Within minutes after the game, posters took away from the game that Smith should be our number one back and Nugget was a big disappointment. For some reason it's okay to many GH'ers that this type of analysis and decision making is occurring. But when it comes to posters wanting to see another QB play an entire game to prove himself, the majority of GH'ers state in unison that "Leidner gives us the best chance to win".

In other words, things happen during games that cannot be anticipated through practices and camps. I understand we're talking about a more critical position at QB. But, nobody on here actually knows what would happen if Streveler or one of the other QBS got a game or two to be the QB for the entire game. I'm not saying that they'd do any better. But you would think that the coaches would want to see what these guys could do during an entire game. They may fail miserably. On the other hand they may surprise their coaches. Smith comes away from the game as the guy every one wants to see tote the ball. Nugget comes away from the game shunned by several folks on here. Don't you think it's possible that the same thing could happen at the QB position? I for one think Streveler can drive a defense crazy with his running dimension and speed. If he can't complete a forward pass, then "no" he can't be the QB. But let's give him one full game to prove himself.
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No. I don't think any coach worth anything just decides to try the back up QB just to 'see what he can do during an entire game'. Only 1 QB can play at a time and that guy is supposed to be the leader of your offense. It is completely different from giving one RB more snaps than another. Not only that but there are reasons coaches trust certain backs more than others beyond when they have the ball in their hands even though that's typically all most fans pay attention to.
 

Rodney Open, I suggest you open your mind and watch more football. It's not as simple as Aaron Rodgers good and Ponder and Leidner bad. Like others have said, we have a good team that is getting better. We have a very good defense and when our O line gets healthy, I think you will find that we have a good enough offense to win the B1G west and compete with almost every team in the country.
We also have the an excellent coaching staff and they will continue to make this offense better.
 

Btw, for people asking why I thought Leidner was poor, I don't really want to go on a point-for-point bashing of the kid. I think pointing to his stats as opposed to Boykin's ignores the realities of the game, and what each team was trying to do, offensively and defensively because of TCU's two score lead throughout the second half. Long story short, I was at the game, and Mitch did not play well.
 

jmag21 said:
Btw, for people asking why I thought Leidner was poor, I don't really want to go on a point-for-point bashing of the kid. I think pointing to his stats as opposed to Boykin's ignores the realities of the game, and what each team was trying to do, offensively and defensively because of TCU's two score lead throughout the second half. Long story short, I was at the game, and Mitch did not play well.
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I was one of those questioning you. I don't mean to pick on you. There's just a rash of posters who describe Leidner as poor, horrible, terrible or worst ever. Another group, of which I'm a part, view him as a work in progress who definitely needs to show steady and sustained improvement as he begins his junior year. I was frustrated at times watching him yesterday, but I was also very encouraged by his last scoring drive. If he can be that guy on a more regular basis, I'd be more than satisfied. The fact is, we've seen it so we know he can do it. What remains to be seen is will he do it consistently. I'm willing to watch and see. Excuse me if I tune you and those others out in the meantime.
 

People are leaving out the fact that we were basically playing our third string left tackle and backup left guard just about the whole football game and a brand new center against a defense that has a lot more speed than most we will see in conference the rest of the year. Offensive line is a complicated enough to play let alone playing with people shifting in and out and it was obvious that Lauer could not move his feet or get in front of the Dline like he usually does. I knew we were in trouble on the O-line when I saw 65 in a white jersey on the sideline as he would have started at left tackle or guard were it not for the concussion, and Campion is probably our best and most experienced player on he line. It was the first game, I don't know why people are so hell bent on being pitchfork nation on Mitch Leidner.
Leidner had a lot of throws where he had people at his feet, or hanging on him so the protection from the O-line was not ideal last night it just wasn't.
Gophers have work to do they know it, the QB knows it, but I think can have a very good season without piling on so much. I don't think Mitch had a good game but he surely wasn't the only reason we didn't win the football game. The fumble Mitch had the left tackle completely missed his block a total whiff, and Mitch got blasted on the blind side, didn't feel or see the lineman get beat, it happens even to good to great QB's.
 

jaymil said:
People need to get over the fact that Mitch doesn't throw a pretty ball. He's still relatively effective and is just an average QB. Deal with it.

He is NOT the worst QB in the country.

He is NOT the worst QB in Gopher history.

And there is NOT a better option sitting on the bench.

I have read all 3 of the above statements from "fans" since last night's game. It's ridiculous.

Good post Oleboy
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Agree that Mitch is what he is and that there really is not a better option behind him on the roster right now. And that is the biggest problem of all that at the single most important spot on the field this staff has not been able to find/develop the guy we truly need to lead this team to the next level. This is year 5, at some point they need to find their guy and have him pan out, it hasn't happened yet.
 

Am I the only one who felt Mitch actually played slightly better than his average performances from last year? I though he looked better, maybe even significantly better.
 


MNVCGUY said:
Agree that Mitch is what he is and that there really is not a better option behind him on the roster right now. And that is the biggest problem of all that at the single most important spot on the field this staff has not been able to find/develop the guy we truly need to lead this team to the next level. This is year 5, at some point they need to find their guy and have him pan out, it hasn't happened yet.
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You got it.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Agree that Mitch is what he is and that there really is not a better option behind him on the roster right now. And that is the biggest problem of all that at the single most important spot on the field this staff has not been able to find/develop the guy we truly need to lead this team to the next level. This is year 5, at some point they need to find their guy and have him pan out, it hasn't happened yet.
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They will. The rebuild is almost complete. They started with special teams, moved to defense, and now the offense is a work in progress. In the meantime, we were 1 game away from a West division title last year. Continue to be patient and enjoy the ride. To turn around the program completely in 4 years would be a near impossible task. The passing game really is the last step, and I have no reason to doubt Kill and his staff.
 

jaymil said:
They will. The rebuild is almost complete. They started with special teams, moved to defense, and now the offense is a work in progress. In the meantime, we were 1 game away from a West division title last year. Continue to be patient and enjoy the ride. To turn around the program completely in 4 years would be a near impossible task. The passing game really is the last step, and I have no reason to doubt Kill and his staff.
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This is year 5, at some point the whole offense is a work in progress excuse won't fly anymore. The staff has done a great job recruiting the kind of talent they need to put together a very strong defense but the offensive side of the ball has not kept pace. It is the reverse of what we saw with Mason when they could consistently field an above average offense but the defense could never keep up.

Not trying to imply that we should throw in the towel or give up, things are progressing, but to take that next step the offense has to be better then what it has been to this point. Game one of the 2015 didn't give any major indications that things are going to be all that much different then they were in 2014 on that side of the ball. Just have to see what happens over the remainder of the season, hopefully we will start to see the improvement we are all looking for.
 

jmag21 said:
Btw, for people asking why I thought Leidner was poor, I don't really want to go on a point-for-point bashing of the kid. I think pointing to his stats as opposed to Boykin's ignores the realities of the game, and what each team was trying to do, offensively and defensively because of TCU's two score lead throughout the second half. Long story short, I was at the game, and Mitch did not play well.
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Mitch wasn't terrible, but he wasn't especially good, either. He's not quick, is a big but klunky runner and basically not much better than 50% passing. Nevertheless, he was much better passing against Missouri in the bowl and did much better against TCU this year than vs. them and in other big games last year, when he was down around 30% passing. So maybe he IS making progress that we will appreciate as the season moves on. Still, I'd love to see this team with a really talented QB brought in from Louisiana, Florida, or some place where they grow them.
 

Rodney's Open said:
Lol because the Gophers get so much publicity and college football videos so easily accessible. I'm adamant because I love this school and would love this team to take the next step. It's not happening with #7 at the position.

And why haven't any of the people that have responded in this forum post evidence disputing my claims? That should be a lot easier considering there is a video made of only good plays after every Gophers game.

It's fine whatever. If you guys can't tell from watching every game, that's fine. I'll be done.
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I'll try but I doubt it will matter what I say.

Leidner is not a an average QB. He's really really bad.
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Statistically he is an average college QB, especially in the Big Ten. Anyone who watches a lot of college football knows things could be a lot worse.

He can't throw it deep
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Yes he can, we've seen it before. The pass to Maye at Nebraska last year is one example that stands out to me.

and he can't really throw it short.
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For the most part he did just fine in the short passing game last night. Nice pass to Maye on 4th down. He made a nice play to get the ball over a defender to Williams in the flat, but Williams dropped it.

He can't run that fast
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True, but he is big and does generally make the pile move forward. This is especially true at the goal line. He's pretty valuable down there. But you're right, he's not extremely fast or shifty as a runner.

and he can't read the playclock.
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Agree to some extend. But do we know how much of this is the playcalling and coaches getting the proper personal into the game?

I don't think anyone is saying he is great or that you can't be critical of him. He needs to get better and he needs to be more consistent. Most everyone thinks that. But he has shown he can be a good QB in my opinion. He made some very good throws in some games last year (Nebraska, Purdue, Missouri stand out to me).

And in the end, it really doesn't matter because the coaches who see our QBs everyday think he is our best option.

Either way, I'm very excited about this season. I think we can win a lot of games.
 

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