Let the NIL Begin: Wisconsin QB Graham Mertz Unveils Trademarked Logo ... that looks like someone else's logo ... a lot ....

First, while the NCAA (or some portion of its member institutions) could in theory try to formulate rules to govern all of this, the fact is that this has been coming down the pike for years and the NCAA has been unable to generate any momentum for agreement on any of the key issues governing NIL. That's why, despite calls from all corners for some uniformity and clear guidance, we have none. I am not optimistic that they will do this at all, and none of it will be done "quickly and easily."
Disagree that this has anything to do with governing NIL, itself.

It's not really associated with NIL, at all. It's merely saying that "look, you have X players on your roster who are receiving monetary and/or in-kind benefits via their NIL deals ... and X must be less than Y".

Second, the courts seem ready and willing to smack down any NCAA efforts to limit the earning potential of college athletes. The type of rule you suggest counts a walk-on getting $100 for an appearance at Subway the same as the QB on a full ride getting a year's lease on a Suburban. The result would be that the end of the roster guys would be told "Sorry, but if you do an appearance at the sandwich shop, we'll have to cut you from the team because we are at our limit for compensated players." This is doomed to be struck down in my opinion.
Disagree this is a valid argument.

Why should the NFL be legally allowed to enforce roster minimums and why should a player earning league minimum count the same as a guy making huge money?

If you need players to agree to it, fine. Ask the college players, I think they'd be fine with roster maximums for players receiving scholarship and/or any NIL.

For example, no matter how many student-athletes you have on roster, no more than 55 (or 60 or 65) can suit up for a game.
That's a no, for me.

That just goes right back to the old problem: major programs stockpiling talent in order to keep talent away from other schools.

Has to be a overall roster maximum.



If the NIL part of it loses, then just cut the total roster, no matter what they are or are not receiving, down to 85 and be done with it. No more than 25 + X new players per year (where X is total amount lost to transfer portal), and be done with it.

That kills walk-ons, but so be it.
 

Disagree that this has anything to do with governing NIL, itself.

It's not really associated with NIL, at all. It's merely saying that "look, you have X players on your roster who are receiving monetary and/or in-kind benefits via their NIL deals ... and X must be less than Y".
A rule stating that there is a limit on the number of SAs who can take advantage of the NIL benefits, and that the number is something less than the total number of SAs on the roster, is a rule governing NIL. Not even the NCAA would be dumb enough to suggest otherwise, at least not in court.

Why should the NFL be legally allowed to enforce roster minimums and why should a player earning league minimum count the same as a guy making huge money?

If you need players to agree to it, fine. Ask the college players, I think they'd be fine with roster maximums for players receiving scholarship and/or any NIL.
The NFL is a professional league with a collectively bargained union contract. Many of the limitations that they have would be illegal if they were unilaterally implemented and not collectively bargained. You may be right that it could be done if "you ask the college players." However, you are severely mistaken if you think that the NCAA and it's members want to advocate for, empower and then negotiate with a college football players union. And that ignores the part where you have argued that this could be accomplished "quickly and easily." No chance.

That just goes right back to the old problem: major programs stockpiling talent in order to keep talent away from other schools.

Has to be a overall roster maximum.
That's old world thinking, times have changed. Players now can market their NIL to the world and transfer if they aren't happy where they start. No matter how hard they might try, Nebraska can't sign five top level LBs every year and then keep them buried on the depth chart just so they don't go to Kansas State. Some will be happy making more money, but playing less at a helmet school while others will seek out playing time above all else. And for many the NIL opportunities might be greater as a starter at a lesser school versus riding the pine for a more prominent one. No one knows how it will work out, but like it or not, the road we are on is one to a free(r) market.

If the NIL part of it loses, then just cut the total roster, no matter what they are or are not receiving, down to 85 and be done with it. No more than 25 + X new players per year (where X is total amount lost to transfer portal), and be done with it.

That kills walk-ons, but so be it.

This they could actually do. They won't because it's foolish and shortsighted, but they could.
 

A rule stating that there is a limit on the number of SAs who can take advantage of the NIL benefits, and that the number is something less than the total number of SAs on the roster, is a rule governing NIL.
It is not. No more than the fact that the rule states no more than 85 players on the roster can receive a scholarship, out of I believe 105 total roster spots (at least for fall camp), does not provide a single iota of governance on what a scholarship consists of, how it can be awarded, etc.

However, you are severely mistaken if you think that the NCAA and it's members want to advocate for, empower and then negotiate with a college football players union.
The same would've been said probably as little as ten years ago about allowing any form of NIL.

If the players want it, they'll get it.

And that ignores the part where you have argued that this could be accomplished "quickly and easily."
If nothing could be done without setting up a P5 players association, then obviously it would not be quick and easy. I agree.

No matter how hard they might try, Nebraska can't sign five top level LBs every year and then keep them buried on the depth chart just so they don't go to Kansas State.
What about Texas, Oklahoma, or Alabama? If the top 5 (funded/richest booster) programs can do it, even a little bit, it's wrong.

And for many the NIL opportunities might be greater as a starter at a lesser school versus riding the pine for a more prominent one. No one knows how it will work out, but like it or not, the road we are on is one to a free(r) market.
Very true points, here.

Nothing I've suggested is any kind of restraint on the fair market. No more than the NFL draft is. It can absolutely be argued that parity is critical for the overall, large success of a league, where as true deregulation naturally focuses the wealth to a very few.

They won't because it's foolish and shortsighted
Nonsense
 

It is not. No more than the fact that the rule states no more than 85 players on the roster can receive a scholarship, out of I believe 105 total roster spots (at least for fall camp), does not provide a single iota of governance on what a scholarship consists of, how it can be awarded, etc.
You have suggested an artificial rule to enforce limits on SAs to address changes that you fear might result in further imbalances in the sport. I gather that you don't like that and have concerns about how it could impact the long-term health of college football. I share those concerns. The problem is that your proposed rule addresses those fears by limiting the rights of SAs and that's swimming against the tide. The momentum now is shifting towards greater rights for the SAs, not limiting them in a way that solely benefits the members schools. The courts are rejecting the old paradigm where the NCAA and the schools unilaterally made rules in their own interests in favor of one that demands more equity for the SAs. It could well be true that greater dispersion of talent would be best for the long-term vitality of the sport, but that's not the fight right now. Instead, it's the rights of the schools vs. the rights of the SAs. With that pendulum swinging to the SAs, any arguments focused on the "greater good of the sport" will have to wait until the balance between schools and SAs gets sorted out.
The same would've been said probably as little as ten years ago about allowing any form of NIL.

If the players want it, they'll get it.
It might happen, but it won't be because the NCAA encourages the SAs to unionize so that they can negotiate as a block.
What about Texas, Oklahoma, or Alabama? If the top 5 (funded/richest booster) programs can do it, even a little bit, it's wrong.
It's only "wrong" if you assume that the key objective is to create parity in the sport. That might be best for overall fan interest, but it's not necessarily what's best for the individual SAs and it's not been a consideration that the courts have given much weight. If I am a highly regarded recruit, shouldn't I be the one to decide what's the best experience for me? The schools aren't holding anyone hostage anymore, the SAs can transfer. If I get to Texas and find that I am the fourth string QB, I now have the choice to stay and collect my NIL money and try to move up the depth chart or move on to pursue a better opportunity to play.
Nothing I've suggested is any kind of restraint on the fair market. No more than the NFL draft is. It can absolutely be argued that parity is critical for the overall, large success of a league, where as true deregulation naturally focuses the wealth to a very few.
A rule that says that only a certain number of the SAs on the roster can avail themselves of the benefits related to their NIL certainly restrains the free market. In a free market, they'd each be able to pursue whatever deals the market would bear. Your rule artificially limits that in a way that benefits some conception of the greater good, but not the impacted SAs. Again, the NFL isn't an apt analogy because it's a system where there are collectively bargained rules and limits on contracts, player acquisition, player movement, etc. That framework fosters the teams and the union working together to try to for the overall growth of the league. College football has none of those things in place.
You are predicting that the NCAA will limit the rosters to 85 scholarship only players and end the practice of having walk-ons to supplement the rosters as a way to limit the potential unequal impacts of allowing NIL? Bold. As I said above, it's foolish and shortsighted, but it would be bold.
 

You have suggested an artificial rule to enforce limits on SAs to address changes that you fear might result in further imbalances in the sport.
It's no more "artificial" than the current scholarship limit of 85. That number used to be greater, and schools used that to their full advantage to recruit players they knew likely would never play.

So it's not hypothetical. It already happened.

The problem is that your proposed rule addresses those fears by limiting the rights of SAs
Again, I say this is not a valid argument.

It's like trying to argue that the existence of speed limits in turn limits the rights of people to purchase the type of car that they want to own. It does not, in any way.

The courts are rejecting the old paradigm where the NCAA and the schools unilaterally made rules in their own interests in favor of one that demands more equity for the SAs.
The courts are in no way in favor of complete and total deregulation "wild west" scenario.

There are still plenty of rules, which would be upheld in court if need be.

So, I disagree that courts upholding that players have the right to earn side money from NIL deals equals that roster limits will be struck down.

It could well be true that greater dispersion of talent would be best for the long-term vitality of the sport, but that's not the fight right now. Instead, it's the rights of the schools vs. the rights of the SAs.
Disagree with you trying to frame it this way.

It might happen, but it won't be because the NCAA encourages the SAs to unionize so that they can negotiate as a block.
It happening or not won't have anything to do with NCAA "encouragement". They sure as hell did not encourage the outcomes of the O'Bannon lawsuit.

It's only "wrong" if you assume that the key objective is to create parity in the sport. That might be best for overall fan interest, but it's not necessarily what's best for the individual SAs and it's not been a consideration that the courts have given much weight.
This here, to date at least, is an argument you win hands down. The powers that be in major college football, particularly the College Football Playoff, has shown zero desire in enhancing parity in the sport. And unless the players push for it, there probably won't be any movement in that direction. Schools such as Minnesota and Iowa State, will have to luck out with getting coaches that can bootstrap lower P5 programs like ours into a higher tier, for so long as they can hang onto those coaches before they're plucked away by the upper tier.

If I get to Texas and find that I am the fourth string QB, I now have the choice to stay and collect my NIL money and try to move up the depth chart or move on to pursue a better opportunity to play.
Nothing wrong with saying this. It simply is no more valid an argument that trying to argue that the NCAA should have been allowing 125 scholarship football players all this time. No different at all.

A rule that says that only a certain number of the SAs on the roster can avail themselves of the benefits related to their NIL certainly restrains the free market.
But see, that's not what the rule would say, at all. Indeed, any player on the roster would have full privilege and benefits under the NIL rights. Nothing about that would change.

It's each player's own business whether they make the roster, or not.

In a free market, they'd each be able to pursue whatever deals the market would bear.
Nothing would change here.

Your rule artificially limits that in a way that benefits some conception of the greater good, but not the impacted SAs.
It doesn't "artificially" limit anything.

IF you make the roster, you have full access to everything. There is no, and never should be, some kind of rule guaranteeing anyone who wants to automatically makes the roster.

Again, the NFL isn't an apt analogy because it's a system where there are collectively bargained rules and limits on contracts, player acquisition, player movement, etc.
This is true, and there's nothing I can do about that.

You are predicting that the NCAA will limit the rosters to 85 scholarship only players and end the practice of having walk-ons to supplement the rosters as a way to limit the potential unequal impacts of allowing NIL?
I'm not making that prediction. I don't know what will happen, and don't even have a good guess where it will go.

One could just as easily argue that the NIL rules end the practice of walk-ons, as we knew them, altogether??

What's the point of having extra spots for "walk-ons" when they get more money than a scholarship is worth, for shooting a promo video for a car wash? That's not a walk-on. That's a scholarship.
 


Regardless, I want to thank you @2nd Degree Gopher for the excellent and civil discussion!

Have come to expect it from you and wish it was more the norm.
 

Regardless, I want to thank you @2nd Degree Gopher for the excellent and civil discussion!

Have come to expect it from you and wish it was more the norm.
I appreciate the back and forth. I think you have changed your framework a bit as in the early iterations you were contemplating rosters where there were or could be athletes precluded from NIL benefits. For example, you described the calculation of who could receive NIL benefits as:
merely saying that "look, you have X players on your roster who are receiving monetary and/or in-kind benefits via their NIL deals ... and X must be less than Y".
That's a strange way of saying that everyone on the roster has the same rights. If what you want is a reduced roster cap because you fear that the current limits in the new environment will exacerbate existing flaws in the system, it would be easier to just say that. If that's truly what you meant, than most of the rest of our discussion isn't really material. It's the one thing that the schools/NCAA could probably do without having too much to fear in the courts. They could cut roster limits to 100 or 85 or whatever.
 

I appreciate the back and forth. I think you have changed your framework a bit as in the early iterations you were contemplating rosters where there were or could be athletes precluded from NIL benefits. For example, you described the calculation of who could receive NIL benefits as:

That's a strange way of saying that everyone on the roster has the same rights. If what you want is a reduced roster cap because you fear that the current limits in the new environment will exacerbate existing flaws in the system, it would be easier to just say that. If that's truly what you meant, than most of the rest of our discussion isn't really material. It's the one thing that the schools/NCAA could probably do without having too much to fear in the courts. They could cut roster limits to 100 or 85 or whatever.
Certainly, I may have worded things confusingly or just wrongly. Apologies if so.

The core of my beliefs has never strayed (or has always been my intention to express) from something like this:

"everyone has accepted without challenge the last X years that there can be no more than 85 players receiving scholarship on a roster with a total limit greater than 85 -- therefore, it should be exactly analogous that it can be declared that only 85 players, who have chosen to accept NIL benefits, can be on the roster"

I disagree vehemently that any player who makes the voluntary choice to forgo NIL benefits in exchange for the eligibility to fill any additional roster slots has therefore been "artificially" limited. They made that choice, for that purpose. Just as any PWO for the Gophers who had a scholarship offer to NDSU, made that choice, and has not been limited.

85 - any player who has or has not chosen to accept NIL benefits as they choose
+20 - for any player who has chosen to forgo NIL benefits
 

Certainly, I may have worded things confusingly or just wrongly. Apologies if so.

The core of my beliefs has never strayed (or has always been my intention to express) from something like this:

"everyone has accepted without challenge the last X years that there can be no more than 85 players receiving scholarship on a roster with a total limit greater than 85 -- therefore, it should be exactly analogous that it can be declared that only 85 players, who have chosen to accept NIL benefits, can be on the roster"

I disagree vehemently that any player who makes the voluntary choice to forgo NIL benefits in exchange for the eligibility to fill any additional roster slots has therefore been "artificially" limited. They made that choice, for that purpose. Just as any PWO for the Gophers who had a scholarship offer to NDSU, made that choice, and has not been limited.

85 - any player who has or has not chosen to accept NIL benefits as they choose
+20 - for any player who has chosen to forgo NIL benefits
Fair enough. I think I understand your position better than I did before. I don't necessarily agree that a court would adopt your reasoning, but we shall see.
 



These recent changes in player movement and payment are a sea change in college sports. The next 5 years in college sports will set in place the next 50 years. Simply put MN needs to cheat steal and lie to be on top by 2026.
 

The Big Ten is not going to break apart. We're in the Big Ten.

So, like it or not, we'll get "dragged with" to whatever "the top" is.
 

The Big Ten is not going to break apart. We're in the Big Ten.

So, like it or not, we'll get "dragged with" to whatever "the top" is.
If we look at expansion / breaking apart in context of "the top", I wonder if all of the schools in the power conferences will want to make the move. If the top is some sort of minor league where the athletes are on salary and it is a de facto professional football league -- I think that schools like Vandy, Wake, jNW, maybe even a Duke or Stanford would consider eliminating football.

I agree with you that the Gophers will get dragged along for no other reason than they don't want to be left out -- but I wonder if all schools will want to continue if "the top" regardless.
 

I scrolled through this thread some but it looks like it's gotten way too complicated for a discussion of Graham Mertz's logo, which was just these redesigns mixed together into a Frankenstein:

New-GM-Logo-New-Kia-Logo-Header.jpeg
 





185 yards, 2 int, and 1 or 2 fumbles?
 

As a MN fan I sort of feel bad for the kid if his clothes merchandising and stupid logo become a cautionary tale national laughingstock, but not really. His own fanbase has already turned on him. It will be interesting to see what happens.



 


Another rough start for a highly ranked arm



Yeah. I mean, the Ohio state kid banks 1.4 million….

But what if he never plays? Companies are going to learn not to count chickens in terms of high school athletes.


at the same time, some people who are doing it for booster reasons rather than advertising reasons won’t care they are flushing money away
 

Yeah. I mean, the Ohio state kid banks 1.4 million….

But what if he never plays? Companies are going to learn not to count chickens in terms of high school athletes.


at the same time, some people who are doing it for booster reasons rather than advertising reasons won’t care they are flushing money away

Depending on the amount invested boosters might care somewhat if the kid stinks and transfers out after a year. Most people and particularly the wealthy are highly annoyed with poor investments. There may be implicit pressure on coaches to stick with a player that is more focused on hanging out with their agent, doing appearances, or doing Instagram than watching film, studying, practicing. Interesting times.
 

Is the Graham Mertz thing entirely self-run? It doesn't look like any company is paying him to run that shop with...all...that...merch. It's copyright Graham Mertz. It mentions no other partners.

Other than maybe Shopify, a screen printer, and a drop shipper is this more of a personal business venture based on NIL than a sponsorship?

For his sake I hope all inventory is printed and fulfilled on demand, or he's going to need a freight truck to Goodwill to clear out his dorm room when he transfers to Akron.
 

I scrolled through this thread some but it looks like it's gotten way too complicated for a discussion of Graham Mertz's logo, which was just these redesigns mixed together into a Frankenstein:

View attachment 14139
The new logo fits the way he plays LOL.

Self-aggrandizement gets you into the gutter real quickly if you cannot back up your BS. Smoke and mirrors' shiny logo won't hide the stench of manure.

The part I don't like about NIL is that it's too Kirk-Cousins-ish. The team's interest is secondary to his dramatics.
 
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Depending on the amount invested boosters might care somewhat if the kid stinks and transfers out after a year. Most people and particularly the wealthy are highly annoyed with poor investments. There may be implicit pressure on coaches to stick with a player that is more focused on hanging out with their agent, doing appearances, or doing Instagram than watching film, studying, practicing. Interesting times.

Currently there are people paying $1.3M for a picture of a cartoon rock. There is nearly limitless money out there in the hands of idiots with nothing useful to spend it on.

In the eyes of some the more useless and frivolous the thing you buy for the most money possible, the cooler you are. It explains Balenciaga, Kanye West's new Donda merch, NFT, etc

People will start driving dump trucks of money up to players and programs as a publicity stunt. Wait and watch.

 

Currently there are people paying $1.3M for a picture of a cartoon rock. There is nearly limitless money out there in the hands of idiots with nothing useful to spend it on.

In the eyes of some the more useless and frivolous the thing you buy for the most money possible, the cooler you are. It explains Balenciaga, Kanye West's new Donda merch, NFT, etc

People will start driving dump trucks of money up to players and programs as a publicity stunt. Wait and watch.

If they donate that rock to an art museum that’s a nice little write off
 

Currently there are people paying $1.3M for a picture of a cartoon rock. There is nearly limitless money out there in the hands of idiots with nothing useful to spend it on.

In the eyes of some the more useless and frivolous the thing you buy for the most money possible, the cooler you are. It explains Balenciaga, Kanye West's new Donda merch, NFT, etc

People will start driving dump trucks of money up to players and programs as a publicity stunt. Wait and watch.


The NFT thing and the crypto speculative mania in general is hard to figure. These are psychological phenomena, mostly. There is a lot of dumb money sloshing around. I suppose throwing it into building a football super star team as a Hail Mary isn’t the worst possible way to use discretionary funds, as you pointed out. Surely MN has some of these types. Open your cold storage wallets, folks. Let’s do this.
 

Why is spending $1.3M on a digital token that contains a link to a digital file somewhere (not even the binary itself!), any less useful than spending $1.3M on a rare painting that doesn’t ever leave its stall in (climate controlled) storage?
 

Why is spending $1.3M on a digital token that contains a link to a digital file somewhere (not even the binary itself!), any less useful than spending $1.3M on a rare painting that doesn’t ever leave its stall in (climate controlled) storage?

Fair points. It isn't, if you make the assumption that spending $1.3M on a rare painting and sticking it in a storage facility is also a good use of capital. Historically speaking, fine art has been a good investment in a lot of cases. But it depends on the greater fool theory, and paintings that go for that kind of money tend to have more artistic value and craft behind them than the NFT projects.

Many of these NFTs are not fine art by anyone's realistic definition. Heck, they are quite fungible if you consider that I've already seen CryptoPunks all over the place as forum and Twitter avatars, and those go for hundreds of thousands to millions. But you can also easily reproduce them and make people think you own them, just they aren't on the blockchain.

They are also a haven for money laundering and self-dealing (selling back and forth between related parties to raise prices and create the perception of high demand)
 

Fair points. It isn't, if you make the assumption that spending $1.3M on a rare painting and sticking it in a storage facility is also a good use of capital. Historically speaking, fine art has been a good investment in a lot of cases. But it depends on the greater fool theory, and paintings that go for that kind of money tend to have more artistic value and craft behind them than the NFT projects.

Many of these NFTs are not fine art by anyone's realistic definition. Heck, they are quite fungible if you consider that I've already seen CryptoPunks all over the place as forum and Twitter avatars, and those go for hundreds of thousands to millions. But you can also easily reproduce them and make people think you own them, just they aren't on the blockchain.

They are also a haven for money laundering and self-dealing (selling back and forth between related parties to raise prices and create the perception of high demand)
The blockchain is the entirety of the proof of authenticity. It IS the POA. If it’s not on the blockchain, then you’re no less a dummy than someone who paid too dollar for something printed on an inkjet.

Rich people pay big $$$ for “art”. If someone says it’s valuable, they buy it. In my opinion, this is no less valid form of that. We can agree to disagree though.
 

Fair points. It isn't, if you make the assumption that spending $1.3M on a rare painting and sticking it in a storage facility is also a good use of capital. Historically speaking, fine art has been a good investment in a lot of cases. But it depends on the greater fool theory, and paintings that go for that kind of money tend to have more artistic value and craft behind them than the NFT projects.

Many of these NFTs are not fine art by anyone's realistic definition. Heck, they are quite fungible if you consider that I've already seen CryptoPunks all over the place as forum and Twitter avatars, and those go for hundreds of thousands to millions. But you can also easily reproduce them and make people think you own them, just they aren't on the blockchain.

They are also a haven for money laundering and self-dealing (selling back and forth between related parties to raise prices and create the perception of high demand)
Exactly. I was thinking of trying an NFT, what the hell…. Posted a video and the site wanted the equivalent of $70 to put it up for auction!
 

Why is spending $1.3M on a digital token that contains a link to a digital file somewhere (not even the binary itself!), any less useful than spending $1.3M on a rare painting that doesn’t ever leave its stall in (climate controlled) storage?
The art world is crazy. It's just gotten crazier.

 




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