Leidner Out Vs. MD

[Hates Monikers]

Croft looked very raw, very skinny and and very scared last year at Northwestern and he must not have been so hot this year or he would be playing on Saturday. The "red shirt" story line is all steaming BS designed to protect the player from negative commentary and unflattering suggestions.

Chris S. would be a huge upgrade right now.

You're ready to give up on a QB because as a true freshman thrown into his first college game he looked raw, skinny and scared?

 

[dpodoll68]

Rhoda throws a better ball than Leidner, and is quicker/more athletic than Leidner? Wow. You all were somehow able to ascertain these things on a guy who has played zero meaningful snaps in his collegiate career? Gotta love the GopherHole.

 

[Gopherocious]

Streveler is better than any of the backups we have right now, and his performance at South Dakota so far supports that assertion. The fact is the former offensive staff never allowed him to run any sort of normal offense when he was in the games he played so we will never know for sure.

The fact that he is tough, strong, can throw the ball well enough and can run a 4.5 forty suggests he would be an asset right now. But as I wrote earlier, he never was given any real chance to show what he could do. I guess we will see this week what the other guys can do. Of course, now just handing it off to Shannon Brooks 30 times will be all it takes.

I rea

That he's doing it at USD doesn't support your point at all. We haven't seen any of our other QB's play a snap yet this year, so you can't automatically assume Strev is better.

Even if Rhoda has a rough day, don't you think that maybe the teams Strev is taking on might be a tad worse than Maryland?

 

[minibeaver]

Rhoda throws a better ball than Leidner, and is quicker/more athletic than Leidner? Wow. You all were somehow able to ascertain these things on a guy who has played zero meaningful snaps in his collegiate career? Gotta love the GopherHole.

The second string guy is always better.

I'd be VERY surprised if Rhoda has anywhere near the athletic talent Mitch has. It would not completely shock me if Rhoda made better decisions with the ball, or was able to read a defense as well or better than Mitch.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Rhoda throws a better ball than Leidner, and is quicker/more athletic than Leidner? Wow. You all were somehow able to ascertain these things on a guy who has played zero meaningful snaps in his collegiate career? Gotta love the GopherHole.

Mitch will become Joe Montana in everyone's memory once he is gone, like all the other recent MN QBs.


Someone is bound to complain that -current QB- sucks, and note that he never got listed as a potential 1st round draft pick like Mitch did...

 

[MaroonGold1]

Rhoda throws a better ball than Leidner, and is quicker/more athletic than Leidner? Wow. You all were somehow able to ascertain these things on a guy who has played zero meaningful snaps in his collegiate career? Gotta love the GopherHole.

Yes. "Throwing a better ball" does not mean he's instantly a "Better passer than Leidner". "Quicker/ more athletic" does not mean "Better runner than Leidner". They are two of many components that go into playing QB.

Also, it's not exactly a high bar he's got to clear

 

[MNVCGUY]

The second string guy is always better.

I'd be VERY surprised if Rhoda has anywhere near the athletic talent Mitch has. It would not completely shock me if Rhoda made better decisions with the ball, or was able to read a defense as well or better than Mitch.

I would be really surprised if he is better at these things than a 5th year senior with a lot of starts under his belt. Especially reading defenses because it is way different in a game then it is in practice and he has basically zero game experience for all intensive purposes.

 

[MaroonGold1]

The second string guy is always better.

I'd be VERY surprised if Rhoda has anywhere near the athletic talent Mitch has..

Why would that surprise you? Mitch's athleticism doesn't exactly jump off the page. He's a tough runner, but his foot speed is nothing special at all.

 

[dpodoll68]

Yes. "Throwing a better ball" does not mean he's instantly a "Better passer than Leidner". "Quicker/ more athletic" does not mean "Better runner than Leidner". They are two of many components that go into playing QB.

Also, it's not exactly a high bar he's got to clear

So, just to be clear, you're comparing the two based on Leidner's thousands of plays in live games vs. Division I opponents and seeing Rhoda a handful of times in practices/scrimmages/etc.? I just want your affirmation on this so it is abundantly clear to everyone how ridiculous you sound.

 

[MaroonGold1]

So, just to be clear, you're comparing the two based on Leidner's thousands of plays in live games vs. Division I opponents and seeing Rhoda a handful of times in practices/scrimmages/etc.? I just want your affirmation on this so it is abundantly clear to everyone how ridiculous you sound.

Yes, I am comparing athleticism based on watching Leidner and watching Rhoda. I don't need to see Rhoda run "thousands of plays" to see he is more athletic than Leidner. I will need to see many plays before I would say he is a "Better QB than Leidner".. which of course I, or anyone else in this thread hasn't said.

I'll even take it one further.. this is also going to blow your mind. I've only seen Croft a handful of plays. He's ALSO more athletic than Leidner

 

[dpodoll68]

Yes, I am comparing athleticism based on watching Leidner and watching Rhoda. I don't need to see Rhoda run "thousands of plays" to see he is more athletic than Leidner. I will need to see many plays before I would say he is a "Better QB than Leidner".. which of course I, or anyone else in this thread hasn't said.

I'll even take it one further.. this is also going to blow your mind. I've only seen Croft a handful of plays. He's ALSO more athletic than Leidner

What are you basing these comparisons on? Have you seen the three of them compete against each other in 40 yard dashes? High jumps? Hurdles? I'm sure your hatred of Leidner is playing no part in these analyses from a world-renowned assessor of athletic abilities based on extremely small sample sizes with almost zero comparable basis.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

What are you basing these comparisons on? Have you seen the three of them compete against each other in 40 yard dashes? High jumps? Hurdles? I'm sure your hatred of Leidner is playing no part in these analyses from a world-renowned assessor of athletic abilities based on extremely small sample sizes with almost zero comparable basis.

Sixth sense QB quality detection. Works best from the couch.

 

[MaroonGold1]

What are you basing these comparisons on? Have you seen the three of them compete against each other in 40 yard dashes? High jumps? Hurdles? I'm sure your hatred of Leidner is playing no part in these analyses from a world-renowned assessor of athletic abilities based on extremely small sample sizes with almost zero comparable basis.

I'm basing it off of my eyes. Since it is my opinion. Why is that hard for you to understand?

 

[Spoofin]

I absolutely love how many folks on here basically think Streveler never got a fair chance and at the same time are writing off Croft based on a handful of plays as a true freshman. WTF?


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[salzie]

Streveler threw his first interception before his first and only completion vs SJSU

 

[Dano564]

The problem was exposed this weekend regarding concussion protocol.

I've been trained in concussion protocol, and any hit to the head, or any sudden jarring, even not to the head, should be reason to review a player for concussion. We see this in soccer with youth kids and when it happens, we take the player out to check him over.

In football, you would literally the player out after every tackle. The hitting player and the receiving player of the hit. This is why concussions are such an issue for football.

From watching the hit, it's obvious there's a chance for him to incur a concussion. His ability to "pop right back up" is old-school talk which is antiquated and of course, incorrect. But Claeys used it to defend himself.

On the opposite side, Claeys would be juggling 300 players if he was properly concerned about concussions based on concussion training sanctioned by any independent / non-football training agency.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

The problem was exposed this weekend regarding concussion protocol.

I've been trained in concussion protocol, and any hit to the head, or any sudden jarring, even not to the head, should be reason to review a player for concussion. We see this in soccer with youth kids and when it happens, we take the player out to check him over.

In football, you would literally the player out after every tackle. The hitting player and the receiving player of the hit. This is why concussions are such an issue for football.

From watching the hit, it's obvious there's a chance for him to incur a concussion. His ability to "pop right back up" is old-school talk which is antiquated and of course, incorrect. But Claeys used it to defend himself.

On the opposite side, Claeys would be juggling 300 players if he was properly concerned about concussions based on concussion training sanctioned by any independent / non-football training agency.

Unless they lied, they checked him during the game and found nothing.

They're not always apparent.

Nobody is checking everyone on any impact to the head in football... they're just not. They'd have to set up a hospital on the sideline to do that.

 

[MNVCGUY]

The problem was exposed this weekend regarding concussion protocol.

I've been trained in concussion protocol, and any hit to the head, or any sudden jarring, even not to the head, should be reason to review a player for concussion. We see this in soccer with youth kids and when it happens, we take the player out to check him over.

In football, you would literally the player out after every tackle. The hitting player and the receiving player of the hit. This is why concussions are such an issue for football.

From watching the hit, it's obvious there's a chance for him to incur a concussion. His ability to "pop right back up" is old-school talk which is antiquated and of course, incorrect. But Claeys used it to defend himself.

On the opposite side, Claeys would be juggling 300 players if he was properly concerned about concussions based on concussion training sanctioned by any independent / non-football training agency.

But as you said it would be impossible to check every player after every hit and you also have to factor the time factor in, in that you only have a finite amount of time between plays so there isn't a big window to really check for symptoms when the player at least appears to be ok. I think Claeys defense in this particular case is 100% valid because watching the film of how Mitch was acting I certainly didn't see anything that screamed concussion to me.

The other thing at play in all this is that as fans we see the play on the big screen in slow mo and from a high angle, on the sidelines they don't get nearly the same view of what happened so it is tough to say how everything looked from their perspective at the time. Bottom line in my amateur opinion at least, I don't think the team did anything wrong in terms of how they handled the in game situation.

 

[MNGoldenGophers1]

What I love about your post is Streveler is now good because of modest numbers at USD, but we can write off Croft due to a Spring Game performance and Green due to playing time split in HS. That all sounds very rational.


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Yeah, it’s ridiculous to compare Streveler against any of our QB’s since he now plays for an inferior team that could never compete against the likes of a P5 juggernaut like the U.

http://minnesota.sbnation.com/2010/9/12/1685055/top-five-worst-losses-gopher-history

5) South Dakota 41, Minnesota 38 - 11 September 2010

See, it's not the fact that Minnesota lost to South Dakota. After all, on the very same day, a Virginia Tech team that started the season ranked in the nation's Top Ten lost a game to a school named after a President (James Madison), so a loss to a team that's not a FBS school isn't entirely unheard of. But it's the way they lost this game that makes it one of the worst. The Golden Gopher defense simply did not show up against the Coyotes, allowing South Dakota quarterback Dante Warren to rack up 433 yards of total offense and five touchdowns, including a 36-yard run on a bootleg on fourth-and-one that iced the game for the Gophers. When it was all said and done, the Gopher defense had allowed 444 yards of offense. . .yes, Warren literally was the offense for South Dakota in this game. . .and had lost a game that they were expected to win going away.

And, yet, this isn't even the worst loss in the Tim Brewster era. What was? Well, I'm glad you asked.

 

[dpodoll68]

I'm basing it off of my eyes. Since it is my opinion. Why is that hard for you to understand?

It's a verifiable point of fact, not an opinion. Saying "Rhoda is a nicer guy than Leidner" is an opinion, left open to individual interpretations, and unverifiable. Saying "Rhoda is a better athlete than Leidner" is something that can be fact-checked and verified. You haven't done that (no one has) and yet that doesn't stop you from giving an "opinion" on something that isn't open to interpretation.

 

[MaroonGold1]

It's a verifiable point of fact, not an opinion. Saying "Rhoda is a nicer guy than Leidner" is an opinion, left open to individual interpretations, and unverifiable. Saying "Rhoda is a better athlete than Leidner" is something that can be fact-checked and verified. You haven't done that (no one has) and yet that doesn't stop you from giving an "opinion" on something that isn't open to interpretation.

Wait, what? You think "athleticism" is a fact? Can you please give me a verified list of what factors go into athleticism rankings and the proper calculation that is used so I can have it handy in the future?

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Wait, what? You think "athleticism" is a fact? Can you please give me a verified list of what factors go into athleticism rankings and the proper calculation that is used so I can have it handy in the future?

Mitch Leidner is more athletic than me. That's a fact.

 

[MNGoldenGophers1]

Wait, what? You think "athleticism" is a fact? Can you please give me a verified list of what factors go into athleticism rankings and the proper calculation that is used so I can have it handy in the future?

Everyone knows Caitlyn Jenner is the greatest athlete ever, it's a fact!

 

[dpodoll68]

Wait, what? You think "athleticism" is a fact? Can you please give me a verified list of what factors go into athleticism rankings and the proper calculation that is used so I can have it handy in the future?

Yes, it absolutely is. 40-yard dash, 60-yard dash, 100-yard dash, high jump, long jump, shuttle, cone drill, etc., etc., etc. These are all testable and verifiable things. It is absolutely a fact, 100%. How are you not aware of this? Who said anything about "rankings" or "calculations"? Being the expert assessor of athleticism that you are, how are you not aware of the draft combine? Track and field?

 

[MaroonGold1]

Yes, it absolutely is. 40-yard dash, 60-yard dash, 100-yard dash, high jump, long jump, shuttle, cone drill, etc., etc., etc. These are all testable and verifiable things. It is absolutely a fact, 100%. How are you not aware of this? Who said anything about "rankings" or "calculations"? Being the expert assessor of athleticism that you are, how are you not aware of the draft combine? Track and field?

You told me athleticism rankings is a fact, and then threw a bunch of "etc." in to how that "fact" is calculated. Player A runs 40 faster. Player B runs 60 faster. Player A runs 100 faster. Player B jumps higher. Player A jumps further. Player B runs shuttle faster. Player A runs cone drill faster. Please give me who the better athlete is (FACTS only)

The combine ranks athleticism? I have followed that fairly closely in the past, and have seen leaderboards for bench press, high jump, 40yd, etc. But I've never seen the best athlete ranked. Who are the 7 best athletes on the Gophers this year - I need a 1-7, facts only.


I assume you are trying to get me going, and aren't actually this stupid. But if you need help with what the word fact or athleticism means, or anything like that feel free to private message me.

 

[Spoofin]

<b>Yeah, it’s ridiculous to compare Streveler against any of our QB’s since he now plays for an inferior team that could never compete against the likes of a P5 juggernaut like the U.</b>

http://minnesota.sbnation.com/2010/9/12/1685055/top-five-worst-losses-gopher-history

5) South Dakota 41, Minnesota 38 - 11 September 2010

See, it's not the fact that Minnesota lost to South Dakota. After all, on the very same day, a Virginia Tech team that started the season ranked in the nation's Top Ten lost a game to a school named after a President (James Madison), so a loss to a team that's not a FBS school isn't entirely unheard of. But it's the way they lost this game that makes it one of the worst. The Golden Gopher defense simply did not show up against the Coyotes, allowing South Dakota quarterback Dante Warren to rack up 433 yards of total offense and five touchdowns, including a 36-yard run on a bootleg on fourth-and-one that iced the game for the Gophers. When it was all said and done, the Gopher defense had allowed 444 yards of offense. . .yes, Warren literally was the offense for South Dakota in this game. . .and had lost a game that they were expected to win going away.

And, yet, this isn't even the worst loss in the Tim Brewster era. What was? Well, I'm glad you asked.

Well, I wasn't even commenting on comparing them and didn't take any type of shot at lower level teams. I was pointing out how silly the basis is that some will draw conclusions from are. Thanks for the recap on the 2010 game tho - although it had no relevance to the discussion, it was a "fun" trip down memory lane. I was there, BTW, so remember it well.


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[MNGoldenGophers1]

Well, I wasn't even commenting on comparing them and didn't take any type of shot at lower level teams. I was pointing out how silly the basis is that some will draw conclusions from are. Thanks for the recap on the 2010 game tho - although it had no relevance to the discussion, it was a "fun" trip down memory lane. I was there, BTW, so remember it well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My apologies as I piggy-backed on the wrong post. This has been an amusing debate and I too (unfortunately) was at that game. Brutal, absolutely brutal!

 

[MNGoldenGophers1]

You told me athleticism rankings is a fact, and then threw a bunch of "etc." in to how that "fact" is calculated. Player A runs 40 faster. Player B runs 60 faster. Player A runs 100 faster. Player B jumps higher. Player A jumps further. Player B runs shuttle faster. Player A runs cone drill faster. Please give me who the better athlete is (FACTS only)

The combine ranks athleticism? I have followed that fairly closely in the past, and have seen leaderboards for bench press, high jump, 40yd, etc. But I've never seen the best athlete ranked. Who are the 7 best athletes on the Gophers this year - I need a 1-7, facts only.


I assume you are trying to get me going, and aren't actually this stupid. But if you need help with what the word fact or athleticism means, or anything like that feel free to private message me.

If it wasn’t for these athleticism “facts”, guys like Larry Bird and Wayne Gretzky would have never played in the NBA or NHL. How else do you think they got evaluated and ended up in the pros? Everyone knows only the most athletic make it and these guys were clearly the most athletic players ever in their respective sports. Ever!

 

[MaroonGold1]

If it wasn’t for these athleticism “facts”, guys like Larry Bird and Wayne Gretzky would have never played in the NBA or NHL. How else do you think they got evaluated and ended up in the pros? Everyone knows only the most athletic make it and these guys were clearly the most athletic players ever in their respective sports. Ever!

But who was more athletic, Bird or Gretzky? I need a factual statement on that.

 

[dpodoll68]

You told me athleticism rankings is a fact, and then threw a bunch of "etc." in to how that "fact" is calculated. Player A runs 40 faster. Player B runs 60 faster. Player A runs 100 faster. Player B jumps higher. Player A jumps further. Player B runs shuttle faster. Player A runs cone drill faster. Please give me who the better athlete is (FACTS only)

The combine ranks athleticism? I have followed that fairly closely in the past, and have seen leaderboards for bench press, high jump, 40yd, etc. But I've never seen the best athlete ranked. Who are the 7 best athletes on the Gophers this year - I need a 1-7, facts only.


I assume you are trying to get me going, and aren't actually this stupid. But if you need help with what the word fact or athleticism means, or anything like that feel free to private message me.

I did not tell you athleticism rankings is a fact. That's a lie. I said that athleticism is verifiable, and it is. How did you verify it?

I didn't say who the better athlete is. I don't know. Neither do you. That's the entire point. That doesn't stop you from proclaiming a fact-based proposition based on your opinion (arrived at based on comparing a very large sample size in actual competition vs. a limited sample size in practice).