Kill reminds me of Mason

[FireCosgroveGuy]

Maybe he is a better coach, maybe not - that remains to be seen, but he will have to be to win IMO.

I hate to be the naysayer but beating out Western Michigan, Temple, etc for mediocre prospects does nothing for me.

Why is it that the Gophers have to be all or nothing with coaches? Either its all coach and poor recruiter or poor coach and all recruiter.

 

[Arbogast]

Maybe he is a better coach, maybe not - that remains to be seen, but he will have to be to win IMO.

I hate to be the naysayer but beating out Western Michigan, Temple, etc for mediocre prospects does nothing for me.

Why is it that the Gophers have to be all or nothing with coaches? Either its all coach and poor recruiter or poor coach and all recruiter.

Seriously instead of making a new thread about something, check out the other 50 threads on this.

 

[GreasyGopher]

The man hasn't even coached a game yet. Give it a rest.

Expecting players who have offer from known winners to commit to a complete unknown is ludacris.

How about you stop getting ahead of yourself and let Kill coach a damn game before you start jumping on his back.

 

[golfinggopher]

Maybe he is a better coach, maybe not - that remains to be seen, but he will have to be to win IMO.

I hate to be the naysayer but beating out Western Michigan, Temple, etc for mediocre prospects does nothing for me.

Why is it that the Gophers have to be all or nothing with coaches? Either its all coach and poor recruiter or poor coach and all recruiter.

Jeez....let the man coach a year or two before you judge the class....I can't remember a time when we ve had this many recruits signed this early so I'm pretty sure he likes these recruits~he's not just signing kids to fill the class, he prolly likes these kids. I liked the stars too but lighten up until u know what's actually gonna happen with these football players before you declare them no good. He might just know what he's doing

 

[FireCosgroveGuy]

Seriously instead of making a new thread about something, check out the other 50 threads on this.

Cry me a river. I don't think board space is as a premium right now so you know where you can shove it.

 

[FireCosgroveGuy]

The man hasn't even coached a game yet. Give it a rest.

Expecting players who have offer from known winners to commit to a complete unknown is ludacris.

How about you stop getting ahead of yourself and let Kill coach a damn game before you start jumping on his back.

Kill isn't really an unknown, though. Maybe at the Big Ten level but he is a known quantity as a head coach.

Some of you seem incapable of forming actual opinions that don't involve the generic "lets just wait and see" stuff.

Any time you are getting recruits bound for schools like Western Michigan or Temple you have to question the coach's recruiting ability unless you really do want to replay the past.

 

[btowngopher]

Kill isn't really an unknown, though. Maybe at the Big Ten level but he is a known quantity as a head coach.

Some of you seem incapable of forming actual opinions that don't involve the generic "lets just wait and see" stuff.

Any time you are getting recruits bound for schools like Western Michigan or Temple you have to question the coach's recruiting ability unless you really do want to replay the past.

If Mason could have fielded decent defenses consistently his recruiting would have been a non issue.

 

[diehard]

If Mason could have fielded decent defenses consistently his recruiting would have been a non issue.

+1. But he couldn't. Kill can.

 

[corcoran1]

Maybe he is a better coach, maybe not - that remains to be seen, but he will have to be to win IMO.

I hate to be the naysayer but beating out Western Michigan, Temple, etc for mediocre prospects does nothing for me.

Why is it that the Gophers have to be all or nothing with coaches? Either its all coach and poor recruiter or poor coach and all recruiter.

25% RIGHT, he respects fundamentals on offense the same way Mason did, but Mason thought defense was all about attitude. Attitude is a big deal on defense, but so is speed. We never had any speed and could not hold leads against better athletes. Additionally, Kill has very high expectations of his coordinators and all of his coaches on recruiting effort; in contrast Mason had very low recruiting expectations of anyone but Browning on recruiting. (Maybe Browning's success was simply his personal expectation, not Mason's). Mason correctly recognized Minnesota had recruiting disadvantages, accepted them as insurmountable and did little to overcome them. Half of Mason's assistants were terrible recruiters. As much as TB may have been overly focused on recruiting, Mason was really out of date on recruiting. He would do fine at a real helmet school, anyplace else his staff did not recruit hard enough.
In contrast, Kill has high expectations of his assistants on everything, including finding talent, highly rated or not.
They will recruit their ass off, but the outstanding question is whether the kids they take as developable prospects can really rise to BigTen levels of execution. My guess is Coach Kill's staff will succeed, and when they start having some success on the field, their recruiting success on higher rated players will go up as well.
It may not be pretty at the start, but Brewster's recruiting was over rated and his philsophy was bascially ad lib. I'll take my chances with this staff. They were really impressive at spring practice.

 

[imthewalrus]

corcorran1: why did Mason have so many All-American players, All-Big Ten players...

and players who won national recogintion awards if he didn't recruit? I just have to laugh at people who make that statementand then don't take a look at all the nationally recognized players we had here during the Mason era.

You can't prove by anything we have seen to date that brewster could recruit diddly squat. And, we KNOW he sure as heck couldn't coach.

Coaching IS a combination of recruiting players and then making them better players and putting them in a position to SHINE...to be recognized...to really "be all that they can be..."

NO coach at the U of M since Murray Warmath with his early 1960's teams turned out as many All-American and nationally recognized players as Glen Mason did.

 

[Killjoy]

Summer Reruns

Cry me a river. I don't think board space is as a premium right now so you know where you can shove it.

Some of us don't like summer reruns as much as you seem to like them. I expect this will result in another "shove it" comment.

 

[Schlic Daddy]

and players who won national recogintion awards if he didn't recruit? I just have to laugh at people who make that statementand then don't take a look at all the nationally recognized players we had here during the Mason era.

You can't prove by anything we have seen to date that brewster could recruit diddly squat. And, we KNOW he sure as heck couldn't coach.

Coaching IS a combination of recruiting players and then making them better players and putting them in a position to SHINE...to be recognized...to really "be all that they can be..."

NO coach at the U of M since Murray Warmath with his early 1960's teams turned out as many All-American and nationally recognized players as Glen Mason did.

Wow I actually agree with something Wren wrote. WTF is going on? Unfortunately, Mason didn't recruit defense very well.

Hopefully Kill can get some players on defense. Like someone mentioned above, if Mason got some of those All-Americans on defense, he would still be coaching.

 

[Mustang Mountain Man]

I am so tired of reading that the past predicts the future, unless its ground hogs day. Nothing but a bunch of suck up posters to a program in the bottom of the B!G trying to prove how wonderful effed up recruiting is right now. Nowhere on the planet do real recruiters crow such... utter... has any of it sunk in. None. Zero. Zilch. Mass hysteria, dogs and kittens hugging. We are talking barelegged broads of Biblical proportions. Fire! Brimstone! Chicks really dig that kind of stuff. We are talking total annihilation. Gawd I need a cigarette. Don't get me started without my beer.

 

[imthewalrus]

Lamanzer Williams and Tyrone Carter were not recruted by Mason...both were recruited by Wacker. Mason did coach them though. Both were All-Americans. Williams had not done much until his senior year when he was switched from Lb to DE. Don't forget Karon Riley...Schlect...Middlebrooks, and some other very fine defensive players that played for Mason.

It is just very hard if you are not an Ohio State, Michigan, PSU or Nebraska type team in the Big Ten to get the volumn...the mass quantities...the depth...the sheer numbers of good...to excellent...to great defensive players all together at the same time...have them remain injury free and have that all happen when you are also STACKED on offense.

Oh...Mason had some good defenders...just not enough of them all at one time. Perhaps the 1999 defense came as close as any...that was one hell of a good defensive squad.

 

[Sparlimb]

Kill Reminds me of Mason

Well that would be a good thing in my book. Mason won more than any coach in the last 40 years here. He beat every conference team at least once. After the joke of a coach we just had, getting back to winning 50% of the conference games would be a good start. I'm hopeful Kill can do better than Mase, but just as good will be light years better than Brewster.

 

[Sparlimb]

Expecting players who have offer from known winners to commit to a complete unknown is ludacris.

Umm, that is the one thing that didn't stop Brewster. He got our best ranked recruiting class in recent memory on the heels of a one win season and being a complete unknown.

So, your argument holds no water.

 

[4four4]

Umm, that is the one thing that didn't stop Brewster. He got our best ranked recruiting class in recent memory on the heels of a one win season and being a complete unknown.

So, your argument holds no water.

And how many of them are still playing at the University of Minnesota? You have to keep student in school to be successful. Sorry, one year doesn't do it for me.

 

[howeda7]

Kill does seem very similar to Mason. This is not some condemnation. We simply have to hope that when he gets the rock rolled up to the top of the mountain, he gets it over the top instead of it rolling back over him and crushing him. So far 50 years of rolling the rock up the mountain have been unsuccessful. Mason got further up the mountain the most. Hopefully Kill reaches the top.

 

[Handsome Pete]

Seriously instead of making a new thread about something, check out the other 50 threads on this.

Seriously instead of becoming the authoritah with 43 posts, how's bout contributing substantially to the board first.

 

[harrys ghost]

And how many of them are still playing at the University of Minnesota?

Fourteen. Five used up their eligibility. Looks like about nine will be starting.

 

[Sparlimb]

Umm, that is the one thing that didn't stop Brewster. He got our best ranked recruiting class in recent memory on the heels of a one win season and being a complete unknown.

So, your argument holds no water.

And how many of them are still playing at the University of Minnesota? You have to keep student in school to be successful. Sorry, one year doesn't do it for me.

Oh I agree with you. I just was disagreeing with the notion that an unknown coach at a new school can't have success. Ours was just illusionary.

 

[Breakin' The Plane]

I just think Kill has a very different recruiting philosophy. He identifies players that he likes and offers them. I don't think he pays too much attention to stars and offer lists. He isn't going to mess around. It's not like he's taking everyone else's leftovers. If it was a week before signing day and he was filling the class by "outrecruiting" Temple, WMU, etc., that'd be different.

 

[BisonGopher]

Delete this thread.

The OP is a troll post made by yet another wanna be college football coach who thinks he knows something about recruiting. Probably didn't even play football in high school.

Delete it.

 

[frozengopher]

Some of you seem incapable of forming actual opinions that don't involve the generic "lets just wait and see" stuff.

I'll trump opinion with fact.

- Kill comes into Minnesota with a far greater record than Mason had.

- Kill has a proven track record of building up crap programs with 'mediocre' (according to recruiting websites) talent. That 'mediocre' talent had, from time to time, gone toe to toe, and sometimes beat, Big 6 conference teams. There's prior thread showing that Kill outcoached coaches and beat teams with better talent/prestige/recruiting almost 50% of the time. Too lazy to find it.

That is why some of us say, 'wait and see.' Recruiting will figure itself out with wins. Let the stargazers stargaze, the rest of us will do what we did before we knew Rivals and the like existed, hope for some good, well coached football, and some wins to go with it.

 

[imthewalrus]

You are way off base, left out in the cold and are comparing...

frozen apple pies to frozen orange juice contracts mr. freezie...

SIU and NIU may kind of compare with Kent State...but...KU and Minnesota while having been nothing but coach killers during the past fifty years or so play tougher schedules in their respective conferences than SIU and NIU. I just can't let you get by with those little "killer" facts.

Mason brought both KU and Minnesota to some great top twenty and top ten finishes...which was REMARKABLE considering where those program had been. I KNOW being a life-long-die-hard Golden Gopher Football fan who has survived over fifty seasons of Golden Gopher Football.

I am pulling for Coach Kill to be wildly successful here at Minnesota. In fact, he is my ONLY hope that our Gopher Program can climb back to the level Mason had the Gophers at and then surpass what Mason was able to accomplish here.

But, you are really off base with what you are trying to do here. The Big Eight and the Big Twelve were real steps up from the conference schedule Coach Kill faced at NIU and SIU. He did a great job in those places. Yet, Mason has been named coach of the year in three different conferences. You just don't need to try to make Coach Kill look better by fudging the facts. Coach Kill looks just FINE standing on his own merits.

But, make no mistake about it: Coach Kill will start facing challenges that he has NEVER faced before starting with the Big Ten Schedule in 2011. He will have never faced this level of competition week in and week out through out the entire Big Ten Schedule. Yes, he is seasoned and he does have a veteran staff that has been together and with him for a VERY long time. But, he has NEVER faced a schedule that will bring on Michigan, MSU, wisky, iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Purdue and NU back to back to back with only a one week bye for a 7 day break during the season.

For this Gopher team, it is ESSENTIAL to win at least one of those Big Ten games. Two wins would be remarkable. Anything more than that would be INCREDIBLE! Coach Kill just has never been through a meatgrinder of a schedule like the one he has facing him in the 2011 Big Ten Schedule. We shall see what we shall see...

Good luck and best wishes to Coach Kill, his staff and the team! Coach Kill is my ONLY hope for Golden Gopher Football. I do have confidence in him because he IS a coach.

 

[CrocShots]

This thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

 

[GreasyGopher]

Oh I agree with you. I just was disagreeing with the notion that an unknown coach at a new school can't have success. Ours was just illusionary.

I didn't say can't have success. I was saying let him coach a game before judging his recruiting abilities. Let him actually put his product out on the field. Expecting the class to fill out with stars before Kill has even coached a game, that's what's ludacris.

I haven't checked but something tells me that Brewster didn't have his first recruiting class complete prior to coaching his first game.

Besides Brewster took chances on high rated players with questionable backgrounds. If you look at the ratings once kids actually enrolled that class dropped significantly.

 

[Formo]

frozen apple pies to frozen orange juice contracts mr. freezie...

SIU and NIU may kind of compare with Kent State...but...KU and Minnesota while having been nothing but coach killers during the past fifty years or so play tougher schedules in their respective conferences than SIU and NIU. I just can't let you get by with those little "killer" facts.

Mason brought both KU and Minnesota to some great top twenty and top ten finishes...which was REMARKABLE considering where those program had been. I KNOW being a life-long-die-hard Golden Gopher Football fan who has survived over fifty seasons of Golden Gopher Football.

I am pulling for Coach Kill to be wildly successful here at Minnesota. In fact, he is my ONLY hope that our Gopher Program can climb back to the level Mason had the Gophers at and then surpass what Mason was able to accomplish here.

But, you are really off base with what you are trying to do here. The Big Eight and the Big Twelve were real steps up from the conference schedule Coach Kill faced at NIU and SIU. He did a great job in those places. Yet, Mason has been named coach of the year in three different conferences. You just don't need to try to make Coach Kill look better by fudging the facts. Coach Kill looks just FINE standing on his own merits.

But, make no mistake about it: Coach Kill will start facing challenges that he has NEVER faced before starting with the Big Ten Schedule in 2011. He will have never faced this level of competition week in and week out through out the entire Big Ten Schedule. Yes, he is seasoned and he does have a veteran staff that has been together and with him for a VERY long time. But, he has NEVER faced a schedule that will bring on Michigan, MSU, wisky, iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Purdue and NU back to back to back with only a one week bye for a 7 day break during the season.

For this Gopher team, it is ESSENTIAL to win at least one of those Big Ten games. Two wins would be remarkable. Anything more than that would be INCREDIBLE! Coach Kill just has never been through a meatgrinder of a schedule like the one he has facing him in the 2011 Big Ten Schedule. We shall see what we shall see...

Good luck and best wishes to Coach Kill, his staff and the team! Coach Kill is my ONLY hope for Golden Gopher Football. I do have confidence in him because he IS a coach.

Kill's record prior to MN: 127-73

Mase's HC record prior to MN: 59-64-1

Despite your cute little argument that Mase faced tougher competition than NIU/SIU did.. If Mase couldn't beat the competition that the Big 8/12 provided, what makes one think that he could have EVER beat the competition the BigTen provided?

Even if we took away ONLY the losses during his stint at Kansas, his winning percentage is merely a handful of games better than Kill's.

You gotta get off Mase's knob man. It's freakin' me out.

 

[imthewalrus]

Hey there formo: IF Coach Kill ever does as well at Minnesota as Mason did...I...

will sure as heck be a happy Gopher Fan. Mason was the Big Eight Conference Coach of the Year twice, was the MAC Conference Coach of the year and was the Big Ten Coach of the year. Coach Kill has got one hell of a long ways to go to surpass that kind of achievement. Let's see what Coach Kill does THIS year.

IF he goes winless in the Big Ten, he might as well start packing because he will NEVER make it happen here. I hope and pray that does NOT happen...but...it could. I think he is too good a coach to let that happen. But, on a given Saturday even teams like Northwestern, Illinois and Purdue can be mighty tough. We KNOW that it is going to be a real long shot against teams like Michigan at the Big House, MSU on the road, and wisky, Nebraska, and even iowa at home.

IF Coach Kill can win one Big Ten game in 2011, I think he has got a shot to last to a fifth season here at our "coach killer" University of Minnesota. Two Big Ten wins in 2011 and he is a sure thing to make it at least five seasons here.

You see, formo, you don't seem to understand just how tough this gig is. The U of M job chews coaches up and the pathetic administrators here at the U of M spit those coaches out. They mollify the season ticket base by crucifying a coach for the mobbers and bashers out there.

Coach Kill has got lot to prove here. IF he goes 1-7 in Big Ten Play, he is going to have to win at LEAST 2 Big Ten games in 2012. I know...I know...formo...that doesn't sound like much to you. But, in the real world of Big Ten Football it IS a big deal to be able to DOUBLE your Big Ten win total from one year to the next year in a rebuilding situation. IF he could have a 3 Big Ten win total by the end of his second year...he would really have to pick it up in his third season to match the 8 Big Ten wins that Mason had by the end of his third season. By the third season, will he have developed enough of his own players to really compete with the teams playing mostly 4th and 5th year senior players? It's a tough, tough road...

You just don't "get" how tough it is to win in the Big Ten do you formo???????????? By going 0-8 in his first year, brewster was d.o.a. Just winning ONE Big Ten game that first year is the KEY to surviving at Minnesota.

Yes, we have our on campus stadium now. That SHOULD help Coach Kill. I WANT Coach Kill to succeed in a BIG way here at Minnesota. I want him to blow Mason's tenure here out of the water. However: I will have to see it happen before I believe it will happen. Big Ten wins are just as tough as hell to get when you are building a program from scratch.

I'm going to be at EVERY home game God willing. I'm going to be cheering for Coach Kill to WIN every Big Ten Game he ever coaches. But, winning Big Ten games at the U of M is one mighty toughchallenge. The problem is that Nebraska, Michigan, MSU, Ohio State, Penn State, wisky, iowa, Purdue, Indiana, Northwestern and Illinois ALL are doing their damndest to make sure that the Gophers do NOT win Big Ten games. The Gophers try to return the favor...but...many years it is a LONG, uphill battle. And you don't comprehend that do you formo??????????? You really just can't wrap your little mind around that fact...

I like a good challenge though. That's why I always keep showing up for the Big Ten games.

We will know MORE after Coach Kill's first season. He HAS to win at least one Big Ten game in 2011. He also has to defeat NDSU. Those are my benchmarks for season number one under Coach Kill. He needs to match Coach Mason's record to equal what Coach Mason accomplished. And THEN he can go on to be a much better coach than Mason...but...he can ONLY do it if he first achieves at least as much as Coach Mason.

We haven't been a very good program for a very long time. We don't have very many bragging rights left. The administrators here haven't shown me any desire for the football program to do more than what is necessary to draw the big pay day from the Big Ten Revenue Sharing plans ever since the early to mid 1960's. It's too damn bad too.

Right now, Coach Mason's record rebuilding the Gophers IS the standard that Coach Kill needs to strive to achieve...THEN and ONLY THEN can he try to surpass it. One Big Ten win at a time is the ONLY way that will EVER be accomplished.

; 0 )

 

[GopherHomer]

I just think Kill has a very different recruiting philosophy. He identifies players that he likes and offers them. I don't think he pays too much attention to stars and offer lists. He isn't going to mess around. It's not like he's taking everyone else's leftovers. If it was a week before signing day and he was filling the class by "outrecruiting" Temple, WMU, etc., that'd be different.

I think this is a great point. We have no idea what the staff sees in these players...we'll just have to wait and find out if they're right or not. We all hope that Kill and co. are getting in on these players before a lot of other big name schools identify them. But, I agree, that this is certainly different from beating out the Temples of the world at the last minute.