Kent's scrimmage thoughts, says Gray should move to WR permanently and Moses as QB2

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BleedGopher

BleedGopher

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"Greetings.

What a nice day for the scrimmage. I was kind of surprised that more fans didn't show up.

Anyway, here are some thoughts after watching today's workout:

1. I think Adam Weber looked pretty good. Granted, he was going against a defense missing its top two middle linebackers and a starting safety, but he was effective, accurate and confident in his decisions. I truly belive Jeff Gorton was a great hire for Weber. Remember last year, when Jedd Fisch changed Weber's throwing motion and installed a fairly complex system? This year Horton has come in and asked Weber to think about where he's throwing the ball, now how he's throwing it. He wants Weber to throw naturally, the way he feels is best, so he doesn't have to worry about that aspect of the game. The streamlined offense should help as well.

OK, now: Here is my opinion on the QB situation. I think MarQueis Gray -- who also looked pretty good Saturday -- could be a nice college quarterback, even if he's running a traditional offense rather than the spread he appears to fit better. Having said that, I really don't believe, if he has NFL aspirations, that quarterback is his position. Conversely, how can the Gophers keep such a good player on the sidelines should Weber win the starting job (which, by the way, I'm almost certain of)? My answer: Make Gray a wide receiver permanently. He is big, fast, tall and has great hands. He's already proven he can catch the ball and who is going to be him on a jump ball in a fade route? The more I see Moses Alipate's strong arm the more I'm convinced it would be in the Gophers' best interests to start Weber, have Gray as a receiver and Alipate as the backup QB.

Again, that's only my opinion. And you all know what that's worth.

2. Speaking of receivers, who is stepping up? Troy Stoudermire made six catches today. Bryant Allen looked good until he hurt his right ankle. The Gophers have pretty darned good depth at the position, but who will emerge as the go-to guy? Still waiting.

3. Even though the running back competition will heat up this fall with the addition of three freshmen, I'd say both DeLeon Eskridge and Duane Bennett are both putting their best foot forward this spring. I really like Bennett catching the ball out of the backfield.

4. I know the defense was down a few players, but I wasn't overly impressed with the unit. The Gophers started the scrimmage strong against the run. By the end there were too many running lanes and too many open receivers.

That's about it. Enjoy the rest of your weekend."

http://www.startribune.com/blogs/90...EyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUgOy9cP3DieyckcUsI

Go Gophers!!
 

I said Gray would be moved to WR by the start of fall practice just about a week ago and got ripped to pieces. So let the ripping of Kent commence.

For the record, Adam Weber is a terrible quarterback
 

Rosemountian said:
I said Gray would be moved to WR by the start of fall practice just about a week ago and got ripped to pieces. So let the ripping of Kent commence.

For the record, Adam Weber is a terrible quarterback
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I think there are a lot of people who just do not know what they are talking about and they all seem to descend on these message boards. If you ever want to be right nearly all the time, just go with a contrarian viewpoint of the general consensus.

If you said that you thought Gray would be moved to WR, I think you have that one right. He is just too talented to keep off the field and he will probably play a lot there as long as Weber stays healthy. As far as your last thought goes, I think Weber is a lot better than what he showed last year. I wouldn't say he is a terrible QB at all and he will probably leave the U of M with several records including most total yardage by any player in Gopher football history. I think Fisch really screwed him up last year and did severe damage to our offense. Allowing Weber to throw as he naturally does and scale down the offense should help our offense out immensely.

If Weber has a big year, the Gophers will surprise some teams and this could turn out to be a very fun season.
 

I think Gray to WR still keeps him as #2 QB for real game situations until Alipate is ready. They don't necessarily have to wait for Alipate to be ready to move Gray. This idea has been done before. In this way, Gray is on the field. This also means we don't have to use Parish and blow up his RS. It's almost a no-brainer if Weber does indeed beat out Gray and Alipate looks like he'll be ready in 2011.
 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Fisch was worthless as an OC. Absolutely incompetent. As far as getting ripped, I did when I suggested that last year about mid-season.

Fisch screwed up Weber, Horton is doing damage control and as I have said before, Weber will be fine this year and all of you who have said on this board that he is worthless will be eating the crow that I will be dispensing on a regular basis when he is named all Big 10.:clap:
 


Alipate will be our future QB. It's clear that Gray, through comments made by Brewster and the media, is clearly struggling trying to handle the responsibilities that go along with the position. I for one would love to see him at WR, and definitely wouldn't have a problem with him lining up in the backfield if he can stop the untimely fumbling.
 

Not inspiring. I really believe that making Gray into a quarterback is the unofficial "test" of Brewster. He's our best player and we've struggled a way to make him into a productive player. Gray's the most naturally, physically talented player we've had since Owens.

Is turning him into a wideout an admission of failure? Maybe. Football is not terribly complicated. You want the ball in the hands of your best player as much as possible. Last time I checked the quarterback gets the ball every play.
 

JackiO said:
It's clear that Gray, through comments made by Brewster and the media, is clearly struggling trying to handle the responsibilities that go along with the position.
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It's Brewster's *@&#$@#*^& job to teach him!!! Completely unacceptable!

You can win a national championship with 30 plays run out of 7 formations. The rest of it is blocking, tackling, not turning the ball over and not getting penalized. Figure it out coach!
 

Studwell55 said:
It's Brewster's *@&#$@#*^& job to teach him!!! Completely unacceptable!

You can win a national championship with 30 plays run out of 7 formations. The rest of it is blocking, tackling, not turning the ball over and not getting penalized. Figure it out coach!
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Oh I know, but that is where the problem lies. He is not taking what he is learning and running with it because he apparently isn't the smartest. Now I am by no means ragging on the kid at all, but the QB position needs to have someone bright running the helm. He apparently is having a hard time learning what he is being tought. Just sayin....
 



Studwell55 said:
Not inspiring. I really believe that making Gray into a quarterback is the unofficial "test" of Brewster. He's our best player and we've struggled a way to make him into a productive player. Gray's the most naturally, physically talented player we've had since Owens.

Is turning him into a wideout an admission of failure? Maybe. Football is not terribly complicated. You want the ball in the hands of your best player as much as possible. Last time I checked the quarterback gets the ball every play.
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i don't think it would be a failure at all. many OSU fans are still ready to turn pryor into a WR, and if that happened, i don't think anyone would consider it a failure. gray is a great runner and he has a cannon, but that does not make a QB--especially in a pro-style offense. kent is right, if gray wants to play in the league, his chances are better (RIGHT NOW) as a receiver. who knows, it could click for him, but until and unless that development takes he should be lining up wide.

minnesota no longer runs a zone read offense, and even when gray was in at QB he struggled to make simple zone reads. unless this team goes back to a spread option, then i am afraid gray will struggle at QB. i truly hope i am wrong, but that is what it looks like.
 

That's not accurate. Gray self admitted he had a hard time learning Fisch's system. He's had no experience to support his 2 weeks to learn Horton's system, yet Brewster (who keep in mind wanted a set QB by the end of Spring Practice) announced the competition will continue in the fall.

1) That means Gray is picking up the new system (and building a foundation while he's at it).

2) He's doing it well enough to challenge Weber (who appears to be back in original form and is a highly experienced senior).

I'm not arguing that Gray wouldn't be great at WR, nor that Weber should probably start the first game... but I could see a QB switch mid season, or multi-use (as much as Brewster claims he doesn't want it -- lets face it, that could be a tactical response) during games.

Besides that, any Vikings fan can tell you that a good RB can open up your passing game, and it's clear that the RB position is open come fall and come freshmen. Let's just be happy both QB's seem to look much better from last year, and Alipate seems to be damn close behind.
 

It's way too early to say Gray isn't going to 'get it' as a QB. Until he does, he needs to be on the field somewhere. I have every confidence he can be a WR on the field and progress in the QB equation. Like Studwell says, football doesn't have to be that hard. It is much better to be good than fancy. We need more out of him in '10 than holding a clipboard.
 

the old man says "no chance" Gray becomes a WR. I'm not sure I trust Sid's opinions much anymore, but none the less, he said it.
 



I think it's still a little early to concede the QB job to Weber. I'd like to at least see them both in the spring game. Even if Weber does win the job I'm guessing he will be on a very short leash.
 

BREAKING NEWS:
The sky is not falling.
Gray was a freshman last year that hadn't played football for a year. Tell me a true freshman that has come in as a true freshman and played flawlessly.

P.S. Matt Barkley isn't a fit answer to this question. He led a preseason top 5 team to barely finishing in the top 20. So he obviously made mistakes.
 

If you're Brewster, you're damned no matter what you do if Grey isn't your starter at quarterback this year.

I think the real question is this: How many games can this team win with Adam Weber as the quarterback? Is that enough wins to put the most talented kid on your roster on the bench or risk not getting him the ball?

I honestly believe Weber is the best choice to lead the team in 2010-2011. However, with a defense that is extremely young, a running game that is unproven at best, and a wide receiving core that is raw, is 6 wins worth it?

If Grey plays wide receiver is he ever going to get the ball? He's too big a target to play in the slot, right?
 

The most positive thing I hear is comment from Gray where he says he hopes he is the QB this year, but if he isn't his time will come. I think even if you want to play Weber you leave Gray as the backup QB and give him a few plays as a WR. He has a great/smooth release and is a great runner. I am not convinced he is not the QB of the future.
 

How is Gray the best player on this team?

I am sorry but he has done almost nothing for 3 years. Lets not forget Gray missed most of his Senior year in high school to an injury. He then sat out a year to take care of grades or what ever. Last year he struggled to get on the field even with the team struggling to do anything on offense. Now I am supposed to believe in any way this kid is the best player on the Gopher roster? He has not dont anything to warrent such a comment. What a player does in high school plays no factor what he bring to the college game because frankly we are no longer the team that we were when Gray was brought in to be a QB in a spread offense. I would move him to a WR in a heart beat because he is a very good athlete but he is not a Qb in a Pro Style offense at this point and unless things really change he wont ever be. Big name recruits fail all the time and Gray at this point is set up to fail with the change of offenses that are better suited for both Weber this season and Alipate in the future.

The good news is the line played better and no matter what QB is behind center they need time to throw and make plays,
 

Well obviously you are not a good judge of talent. You're looking solely at results thus far.
 


How can you say that Gray isn't a pro style QB when you just said that Gray hasn't played in 3 years. What are you basing your judgement on? His junior year? Your right the gophers aren't the team they were when they first recruited Gray but how can you be so sure that he is still the same player he was back then. He only attempted a handful of passes last year as a freshman three years removed from his last real action and on top of that he had to deal with a coordinator who had no clue what he was doing.

Give Gray a chance to learn for Horton. Gray has a great attitude and I think he will become a good qb for the gophers.

By the way, everyone that says moses should be the #2 QB because Gray can't hold on to the ball or make reads. Do you remember what the knock on moses was coming out of high school. That right. Interceptions.

I'm a fan of both of these players but cutting Gray out of the QB picture before he even has a chance to prove himself over an extended period of time is stupid.

Finally, I'm glad that none of you people are the coach. Trying to make changes at every perceived insufficiency. This team would be screwed up beyond belief.
 

It was great watching the Gophers in action. I've been looking forward to the opportunity to post about this.
Incidentally, based on this thread I must have been watching a different scrimmage from KY. Maybe he was sitting far away from the field?

1) The Gophers looked like a Big Time Big Ten football team . The Gopher linemen are huge on both sides of the ball and have really good athleticism. There's great speed throughout the skill positions as well. I've never seen the Gophers look anywhere near this big and athletic in their 2 deeps in my lifetime.

2) I thought the Offensive Line was much improved. They were able to get a push and create good holes for the backs, even a couple times when the Defense knew it was coming. I thought Alford and Bunders both stood out and did a great job. Brooks Michel looked phenomenal. That kid is ready to start right now (and needs to). I was also impressed by Eric Jacques. He could be a really nice player in the years to come. The right side of the first team O-line had some nice moments, but was not nearly as impressive as the left side.
Bennett looks a step faster than last year and that was great to see.

3) The WRs caught just about everything in the route drills with the QBs. Bryant Allen ran good routes and made some impressive athletic catches. He also excelled in the scrimmage making some nice plays (although a couple of time he negated first down yardage by giving up ground after catching the ball). I really hope he recovers fast as he looked great pre-injury. Troy Stoudemire looks like he's improved since last year. His route running and hands have improved. We need him to produce so that was nice to see. Xavian Brandon is really raw and doesn't run good routes. Hayo Carpenter is a perpetual disappointment. The coaching staff inexplicably called a fade route to him in the red zone that he quit on and Michael Carter should have picked off (good coverage but we need those INTs). Da Jon McKnight looked good in his routes. AJ Barker made a couple really nice plays.

5) QBs-- All the QBs looked good throwing the basic routes. I was very impressed with MarQueis Gray. He was consistently putting it on the money. Weber looked pretty good too (but both he and Gray also had a few bad misses) Alipate has a strong arm. Adam Lueck was very accurate on the short balls but didn't have the arm strength to do much past 15 yards.

The scary, oh my god 2010 could be a bloodbath moment of the day came during the 3rd down efficiency scrimmage. The O scrimmaged the D in a continuous series of 3rd down plays, usually 3rd and long but also a few 3rd and 4s mixed in. All the QBs really struggled during this drill. Both Gray and Weber missed WRs by 15 yards once. Weber stared a WR down so hard that he threw a slant pattern into quadruple coverage. Gray was staring guys down too. Alipate looked lost. I began to feel dizzy...palms sweaty...flashbacks to 2007, and then...

...the moment passed. The Gophers began the game situation scrimmage. Weber engineered some impressive moments driving the Offense confidently down the field. The Gophers ran the ball effectively and with great push from the left side of the line. The drive sputtered in the red zone and resulted in a missed fg.

Then Gray took the field. On the first play Anthony Jacobs burst through the line and stuffed the RB for a 5 yard loss on a toss sweep. (Incidentally, Jacobs looked like the real deal on Saturday on several occasions. I was pleasantly surprised). on 2nd down the Offensive line had a false start penalty (5 or 6 of those throughout the scrimmage). On 2nd and 20 MarQueis Gray went back to pass, saw no one open, and broke off an untouched run of 22 yards before being pushed out of bounds. He cut so quick that he had run 5 yards before the D even started to react. Gray made some nice passes to keep the chains rolling. He threw a beautiful pass and hit a WR on the 10 yard line but the ball bounced off the WR's chest up in the air for an INT.
During the 2 minute drill drive Gray and Weber each led the O calmly and efficiently down the field before the kicker botched the 'game winning' gf .

If you discount the terrible drop Gray was 8-12.

My Verdict--Gray and Weber both looked very competent leading the offenses. Gray was the more impressive of the two. Gray has improved his accuracy, velocity, footwork, and ability to read the Defense and hang in there and make tough throws. Weber looked better, but he has not become ultra consistent nor has he shed his habit of staring down WRs. While Gray also sometimes stares guys down, his running ability forces the Defense to play him more honestly to respect that ability.

MarQueis Gray will win (and should win) the starting QB job before or during this season. The only question in my mind is when will it happen.

Finally, D looked great and athletic. Anthony Jacobs had a big day. Carter looked good and Watkins made a couple nice plays. Kirksey is the truth. He is going to be unreal this year. Hageman is a little raw but he's such a beast he'll do pretty well this year anyway (and when the light really goes on for him he is going to be like Adrian Clayborn). LBs looked fast, but a little confused at times (understandable with some key guys out). Cosgrove was blitzing all over the place. Royston had a bad face mask penalty and was out of position too often. I worry about his consistency.

And Ryan Collado was truly lights out. He was great in man coverage. He looked faster. I can't actually believe I'm writing this, but he looked like a legit starting Big Ten Corner. Maybe he was just having a phenomenal day, and tomorrow he'll go back to being dependable in run support but too slow to be on an island with Prime Time WRs. But on Saturday Collado looked like he could be ready to surprise a lot of people.
 

Sumtimegophs said:
all of you who have said on this board that he is worthless will be eating the crow that I will be dispensing on a regular basis when he is named all Big 10.:clap:
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I will bet you any amount of money you desire that this will not happen. Seriously. Name your price.
 

Reading between the lines, I get the feeling Alipate will end up being the best QB and have the best Gopher career of these three. Not likely to be this season, but I'd put my money on Alipate being the guy in 2011. If Gray was as great as advertised, shouldn't he be ahead of Weber (who went significantly in the wrong direction last season) by now, and certainly Alipate?

Now it appears Gray is viewed as on equal footing with Alipate (still behind Weber), no matter how much Brew is trying to portray it as an open competition.
 

Schnoodler said:
the old man says "no chance" Gray becomes a WR. I'm not sure I trust Sid's opinions much anymore, but none the less, he said it.
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I trust Sid when it comes to Gopher football. Brewster's fed him inside info since the day he got here. You'll notice Sid is accurate about 50% of the time on all other things but Gopher football he's been 99.9% since Brew took over.

My thoughts on Gray to WR.....Don't do it. 1) We're one play away from needing our backup QB. What do we do if Weber gets hurt? We go to Alipate? We switch Gray back after not practicing with the QB's all season? 2) If Gray stays at QB and Weber plays the whole season then we can RS Gray and he's a R-Soph next season who's ready to be the starter for three seasons. 3) Like OL, QB's need time to develop and if Gray starts as a Junior in 2011 that's not a problem, that's normal. 4) Who says Gray is going to start at WR anyhow? Is he ahead of Troy, Green, McKnight and Allen? Is he even ahead of Keise, Brandon and Carpenter?

In the end, I think the talk of Gray to WR is just impatience, much the same as the people screaming for him to start at QB last year when he clearly wasn't ready. Gray will win some ball games for us, we just need to be patient.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Now it appears Gray is viewed as on equal footing with Alipate (still behind Weber), no matter how much Brew is trying to portray it as an open competition.
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100% false. Gray took nearly as many first team reps as Weber. Alipate got exponentially less reps than either of them. If Gray and Alipate were closer they would get similar reps.
 

Alipate is this year what Gray was last year. Raw and undeveloped. With Horton around, he'll pick things up much faster, but than so has Gray already. In the next year or two, it'll be interesting to see who's the #1 guy.
 

Ali-- Thanks for the report. On Collato, remember he was supposed to be a good recruit when he came in, but had to play right away and sometimes, as in this case, it really hurt him. I think it might have just taken this long to develope and get his confidence back. I'm not predicting anything, but it would not suprise me for him to do very well.
 

Collado is an excellent special teams player, great tackler at the CB position, is an adequate CB in a zone system (which we're now using) and really showed he can be dangerous on blitzes, etc near the end of the season. Collado is a case in point of a guy who needed a red shirt. He'll do fine this yearand next year we'll all lament he's gone after his Senior season, instead of about ready to enter it.
 

magpie said:
Alipate is this year what Gray was last year. Raw and undeveloped. With Horton around, he'll pick things up much faster, but than so has Gray already. In the next year or two, it'll be interesting to see who's the #1 guy.
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Why is Alipate more raw and less developed than Gray?
 

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