KC and AK

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DarthGopher said:
The more I watch this game, the more I feel KC was more of a factor in the boring offense than I previously thought. 4th and 1 in the red zone and runs out of the shotgun. Makes zero sense.
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Been banging this drum for a while. They look just like us on offense. Sideline checks, bleed the playclock....
 

Gopherchase said:
Easy to root against Rutgers. AK might be the worst quarterback to ever strap it on for the Gophers. Led us to an epically terrible and boring year last year. The parts of PJ that I dislike are the ones generally that he picked up from Schiano so to hell with that guy. And, KC left us twice and there are a couple other coaching defectors from PJ on the staff just fun to watch the whole crew crater. Pretty much, there is zero chance for a big 10 team to be successful against any sort of quality opponent with AK as the gunslinger.
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lol. Not even close. The thing about AK is that he has the size and can make some incredible passes. The high end potential is there. Problem is that he struggles with converting the easy passes (which has a lot to do with his busted ass mechanics), won't progress on his reads, and generally makes poor decisions.
 

RememberMurray said:
I don't know about all this "generational talent" stuff, but I'll own up to posting that Kaliakmanis might be good as the Gopher QB... and I'll admit that I was wrong about that.

You, on the other hand, were incredibly, amazingly prescient. Well done.o
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No less a talent judge than PJ Fleck thought highly enough of him to recruit him for three years and give him every opportunity.
 
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Oooof! AK's Stat line - 12 for 32 for 103 yards passing, 0 TDS, 1 INT. PJ'S best off season recruiting move might have been cutting ties with AK. As stated by another poster above, KC may be the issue since he's the common thread, and our offensive woes existed before AK arrived in MN.
 

stocker08 said:
lol. Not even close. The thing about AK is that he has the size and can make some incredible passes. The high end potential is there. Problem is that he struggles with converting the easy passes (which has a lot to do with his busted ass mechanics), won't progress on his reads, and generally makes poor decisions.
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L O L right back at you a combination of lack of leadership, to me a pretty clear lack of love of the game and just in general horseshit play maybe not the worst, but by far my least favorite quarterback to watch ever to strap it up for the maroon and gold. The kid is a program killer and thank God we got rid of them.
 


btowngopher said:
Did any of these guys even make second team all conference? I would hope a coaches best oline recruits over half a dozen years would mostly start over another coaches random one year starters.
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Rodney Smith number three, David Cobb number nine and the off injured Shannon Brooks number 12 on our all-time rushing list. me thinks that Jerry had a few decent OL around to block for these fellas.
 

Gopherchase said:
L O L right back at you a combination of lack of leadership, to me a pretty clear lack of love of the game and just in general horseshit play maybe not the worst, but by far my least favorite quarterback to watch ever to strap it up for the maroon and gold. The kid is a program killer and thank God we got rid of them.
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lol....."lack of leadership" and "lack of love for the game".

Thanks for the analysis, Mentalist Holmes.
 

stocker08 said:
lol....."lack of leadership" and "lack of love for the game".

Thanks for the analysis, Mentalist Holmes.
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Couldn’t be more obvious to me, but then again you probably don’t learn those things in the band or the choir.
 

Dakota2 said:
No less a talent judge than PJ Fleck thought highly enough of him to recruit him for three years and give him every opportunity.
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Thank goodness Fleck — after giving the kid every opportunity — saw that it wasn't going to work, and made other plans.

Fleck's next moves:

— Finding Max Brosmer to be the bridge QB

— Recruiting Drake Lindsey to sit and learn the offense (and then step in as starter after this season)

Those look like pretty good decisions (so far).
 



Gopherchase said:
Couldn’t be more obvious to me, but then again you probably don’t learn those things in the band or the choir.
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The band and choir don't teach you how to identify players who have "lack of leadership" and "love of the game"?

Please....keep this goonish stream of consciousness coming.
 

StormWatch08 said:
Oooof! AK's Stat line - 12 for 32 for 103 yards passing, 0 TDS, 1 INT. PJ'S best off season recruiting move might have been cutting ties with AK. As stated by another poster above, KC may be the issue since he's the common thread, and our offensive woes existed before AK arrived in MN.
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This is a horrible stat line for any QB in any game but it is particularly damning considering Rutgers was playing from behind all day in a game where QB stats can often be artificially bolstered. Kaliakmanis was awful.
 

Schnauzer said:
This is a horrible stat line for any QB in any game but it is particularly damning considering Rutgers was playing from behind all day in a game where QB stats can often be artificially bolstered. Kaliakmanis was awful.
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Most GHers agreed (which is rare) that it was the right choice to move on from AK prior to the season beginning. Think we are all vindicated.
 

stocker08 said:
lol. Not even close. The thing about AK is that he has the size and can make some incredible passes. The high end potential is there. Problem is that he struggles with converting the easy passes (which has a lot to do with his busted ass mechanics), won't progress on his reads, and generally makes poor decisions.
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Agree. I'm old and have seen some really bad QB play. Demry Croft is the most recent example. I can remember when Kaliakmanis was a freshman and during mop-up time he connected on a couple of bullets downfield. I think the prevailing opnion of Gopherhole is that he was going to be the guy that would consistently get us up a tier in the conference. It just didn't happen.

I don't think he's particularly awful, I just think he's slow on his reads and expects his arm to bail him out. If his brain was equal to his arm, cancer would be cured in my lifetime. I don't think there is any questioning his arm strength.
 
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in all fairness, there were people including Chip Scoggins and Ryan Burns who watched Athan K. in practice and came away raving about his "arm talent." I distinctly remember Burns saying (I believe this was before the 2023 season) that AK had more raw talent than any Gopher QB during Burns' time covering the program.

so some people clearly saw potential in AK. as to why he - to this point - has not unlocked that potential - I think it's likely fair to say the blame can be spread around on AK, his various coaches and coordinators.

it's not an exact science - looking at 16- and 17-yr old athletes and trying to project how they will develop over the next 5 or 6 years. some guys peak in HS. some guys continue growing and developing all the way through college and into the pros.

Look at Sam Darnold. He's playing some of the best football of his career at MN because he's in a QB-friendly system with a QB Coach, and an OC/HC who are able to put him in good situations. AK has not found his guru yet. maybe he never will.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
in all fairness, there were people including Chip Scoggins and Ryan Burns who watched Athan K. in practice and came away raving about his "arm talent." I distinctly remember Burns saying (I believe this was before the 2023 season) that AK had more raw talent than any Gopher QB during Burns' time covering the program.

so some people clearly saw potential in AK. as to why he - to this point - has not unlocked that potential - I think it's likely fair to say the blame can be spread around on AK, his various coaches and coordinators.

it's not an exact science - looking at 16- and 17-yr old athletes and trying to project how they will develop over the next 5 or 6 years. some guys peak in HS. some guys continue growing and developing all the way through college and into the pros.

Look at Sam Darnold. He's playing some of the best football of his career at MN because he's in a QB-friendly system with a QB Coach, and an OC/HC who are able to put him in good situations. AK has not found his guru yet. maybe he never will.
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Problem with AK would seem to be that .... if he is being coached on bad techniques.... it is not sinking it....
 

short ornery norwegian said:
in all fairness, there were people including Chip Scoggins and Ryan Burns who watched Athan K. in practice and came away raving about his "arm talent." I distinctly remember Burns saying (I believe this was before the 2023 season) that AK had more raw talent than any Gopher QB during Burns' time covering the program.

so some people clearly saw potential in AK. as to why he - to this point - has not unlocked that potential - I think it's likely fair to say the blame can be spread around on AK, his various coaches and coordinators.

it's not an exact science - looking at 16- and 17-yr old athletes and trying to project how they will develop over the next 5 or 6 years. some guys peak in HS. some guys continue growing and developing all the way through college and into the pros.

Look at Sam Darnold. He's playing some of the best football of his career at MN because he's in a QB-friendly system with a QB Coach, and an OC/HC who are able to put him in good situations. AK has not found his guru yet. maybe he never will.
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Love burns, but he is a massive fan boy of guys we’re bringing in. It was the same hype about Demry Croft. I’d put zero stock in his grading for our commits/targets.

That said, the scouts were clearly off on him. Allen Trieu for 247 said he was a 4th-7th round draft pick type recruit coming out of HS despite mentioning his mechanics. That, to me, coupled with his slow processing is why he’ll never take the next step. You can’t throw with your feet misaligned at this level and be consistently accurate unless you’re in the top 1% of the 1% of QBs. It was such a huge miss to not beat that out of him while he watched Morgan but the throwing motion and stance have stayed the same. Ball comes out fast but he’d be better served getting his feet under him to it had a single iota of accuracy
 




Really hope for a W on 11/9! We need & want this W for many reasons. Talk all we want but gotta get this W!
 


RememberMurray said:
Thank goodness Fleck — after giving the kid every opportunity — saw that it wasn't going to work, and made other plans.

Fleck's next moves:

— Finding Max Brosmer to be the bridge QB

— Recruiting Drake Lindsey to sit and learn the offense (and then step in as starter after this season)

Those look like pretty good decisions (so far).
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All of which make Athan one of the key players in Gopher football history. He's the guy who triggered Fleck into changing his best and becoming a good football coach.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
in all fairness, there were people including Chip Scoggins and Ryan Burns who watched Athan K. in practice and came away raving about his "arm talent." I distinctly remember Burns saying (I believe this was before the 2023 season) that AK had more raw talent than any Gopher QB during Burns' time covering the program.

so some people clearly saw potential in AK. as to why he - to this point - has not unlocked that potential - I think it's likely fair to say the blame can be spread around on AK, his various coaches and coordinators.

it's not an exact science - looking at 16- and 17-yr old athletes and trying to project how they will develop over the next 5 or 6 years. some guys peak in HS. some guys continue growing and developing all the way through college and into the pros.

Look at Sam Darnold. He's playing some of the best football of his career at MN because he's in a QB-friendly system with a QB Coach, and an OC/HC who are able to put him in good situations. AK has not found his guru yet. maybe he never will.
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You are making it too complicated for AK. There are just two things:

1) He doesn't see the field. He focuses on one receiver and tries to force the ball home. His mind says, the harder I throw it the best chance it will get through.

2) His brain just does not process touch. He throws one way -- hard.
 

Dakota2 said:
All of which make Athan one of the key players in Gopher football history. He's the guy who triggered Fleck into changing his best and becoming a good football coach.
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Fleck has always been a good, not great, coach.

Even so, he himself frequently says 'failure is growth', so it's certainly possible that last year's failures led to growth this season.

The simple fact that Brosmer is a far more capable QB than AK is the main source of improvement, however. A good QB makes his coach look good.
 
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RememberMurray said:
The simple fact that Brosmer is a far more capable QB than AK is the main source of improvement, however. A good QB makes his coach look good.
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Yeah that's football.

There are "genius" HCs and coordinators out there whose entire career was defined by hitting the QB jackpot one time ... and otherwise they're mediocre or straight ass.
 

I like AK; he has great arm talent, which you can't teach. But after many B1G starts, he still lacks touch and field awareness, and isn't good a going through progressions--things you can teach.

Brosmer has a less lively arm, but excels in field awareness and has great touch. And, on the winning TD throw to Taylor against UCLA, I heard some analyst say that Taylor was the no. 5 read in progressions! Clearly wasn't the first, if you watch Max's eyes on that play. I don't think we beat either USC or UCLA this year (especially with our less dominant running game) if AK were at the helm. And Murray certainly wouldn't be fantasizing about winning out ...
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Yeah that's football.

There are "genius" HCs and coordinators out there whose entire career was defined by hitting the QB jackpot one time ... and otherwise they're mediocre or straight ass.
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The head coach is responsible for the entire team's success or failure.

Fleck, by that light, failed when he decided that Kaliakmanis was THE guy.

However, he responded to that failure by picking up the pieces, and going out and finding. Max Brosmer. He then convinced Max to leave a school where he had been very successful, leading the FBS in passing. P.J. was able to sell Brosmer on the idea of playing his last season at Minnesota, in a much tougher arena.

In addition, Fleck also successfully recruited a very promising freshman (Lindsey).

I'd give Fleck a pretty good grade on his response to the Kaliakmanis disaster.
 

Gophergrandpa said:
And Murray certainly wouldn't be fantasizing about winning out ...
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I'm pretty sure your reference to me was all in fun.

Not that it matters, but if you were to actually read my posts on that subject, you'd find certain words and phrases, like "very unlikely", "daunting", etc.

But, yeah, I have been dreaming big dreams on that subject...:cool:
 

Gophergrandpa said:
I like AK; he has great arm talent, which you can't teach. But after many B1G starts, he still lacks touch and field awareness, and isn't good a going through progressions--things you can teach.

Brosmer has a less lively arm, but excels in field awareness and has great touch. And, on the winning TD throw to Taylor against UCLA, I heard some analyst say that Taylor was the no. 5 read in progressions! Clearly wasn't the first, if you watch Max's eyes on that play. I don't think we beat either USC or UCLA this year (especially with our less dominant running game) if AK were at the helm. And Murray certainly wouldn't be fantasizing about winning out ...
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It was a nice play that hid Taylor in traffic. It might have been designed for him, we'll probably never know. Driver was open on the sideline too but probably doesn't make it across the goal line.

To your point, I think most Gopher QBs we've seen would have forced it to Spencer who was open only for a brief moment but right in front of the QBs eyes.
 

A different thread maybe, but that little game winning toss to Taylor looked like something we see in the NFL. It seems like the Pack has scored numerous TDs against the Vikes on plays like that. Marshall Faulk, LaDainian Tomlinson, Roger Craig in the past and McCaffrey now make careers on those plays.
 

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