Joey King: Is he a liability on the court?

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Blitzkrieg

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Every time I watch the Gophers play of late, I continually find myself nervous when Joey has the ball in his hands. From poor decision making when throwing the ball in bounds to watching him think he can continually take on 6'10 PF's in the lane, it appears as though he is prone to turning over the ball. I know the other options available aren't appealing but he consistently finds ways to make unforced errors. It can probably said for many on the team but he is just increasingly frustrating to watch. Is he nervous? Is it his inexperience? He needs to become more reliable if the Gophers hope to improve their chances of making the tourney. Thoughts?
 

I think I know what you're feeling. I too find myself nervous before and during games of late. A couple large whiskies works for me. Give it a try!
 

He has a long way to go, but I think he'll end up being a serviceable bench player for the next couple years. He's shown the ability to knock down an occasional jump shot, so at least they have to guard him.
 

Another thing...early on, it seemed he committed an average of a foul per minute. He seems to have fixed that problem to some extent.
 

He has been fine. First year of big-time ball and he has made a few mistakes, of course. He has also made his share of heady plays and rarely takes a shot that he does not have a good chance of making. He is a legitimate 3-point threat and unselfish. I wish he would be stronger on the glass and just stronger overall, however. One place where this team has not done well is in the 50-50 ball department.
 


Block M said:
He has been fine. First year of big-time ball and he has made a few mistakes, of course. He has also made his share of heady plays and rarely takes a shot that he does not have a good chance of making. He is a legitimate 3-point threat and unselfish. I wish he would be stronger on the glass and just stronger overall, however. One place where this team has not done well is in the 50-50 ball department.
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Agreed. He is also always hustling. One series against Iowa, he took an open 3 (missed) hustled to follow his own shot, got the rebound and shot the put back (missed) yet was still the first guy back to break up the Iowa alley-OOP attempt.

Missing shots is fine with me as long as they are open shots and you are hustling. He does that. And is a sophomore playing his first season of Big10 ball.

Would also add he has had a large portion of the post feeds into Mo Walker that results in points.
 

He can be a liability at times a well as major asset. I have to admit, he did some things the other night that just about sunk his team including two ill-advised entry passes to Big Mo late in the game. On the other hand he's made some plays for us and can do some things Oto can't do. As much of a darling as Buggs is at the moment, there will come times when Joey will look pretty good by comparison.

Long term, I'm just not sure what role he has on a better team - a first division team, God willing. He just doesn't possess the physicality or athleticism to play the prototypical forward position at a high level in this league.
 

PitinoFan said:
He has a long way to go, but I think he'll end up being a serviceable bench player for the next couple years. He's shown the ability to knock down an occasional jump shot, so at least they have to guard him.
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+1

I believe there is potential to be a nice role player. But he has to start going up with authority instead of trying to short-arm bunny shots from 2-5 feet out. He can shoot the 3, but he needs to shoot it with some confidence, which he never does. Step one in the offseason should be to gain 10 pounds of muscle. I think things will only get better from there.
 

You should be nervous when he gets the ball, but you should also be encouraged because he's made some major strides this year.
 



But Joey is 3rd on the team in ORtg and basically tied for 2nd in eFG% during conference play!!!! Gopher Warrior, help me out.

Honestly though, I think Joey gets too much crap on here. Yeah, he's not starter-caliber in the BT, but he wasn't brought in to be. We were supposed to have Buckles. Joey is a solid backup considering how much time Pitino had to recruit for that class. I really don't get that frustrated with Joey because he's been one of our best players in terms of knowing his limits offensively. He really doesn't take that many bad shots. He has solid footwork in the post, it's just unfortunate that he's not bigger. He's also a decent playmaker near the rim because of his unselfishness, patience and vision (as well as footwork). His turnovers usually don't bother me as much as when other players turn it over. He's typically trying to make a pass where if it's successful we're going to get an easy basket. It's not like a careless one on the perimeter that gets picked off like we've had problems with for years. Most of all though, he plays his ass off and sacrifices his body for the team (diving for loose balls and taking charges). It would be nice if he had better rebounding numbers, but quite often his contribution in rebounding just doesn't show up in the stats. He does a solid job of boxing out, almost to the point that he forgets he can actually grab the ball if it gets close to him. Let's also not forget that he's an underclassman, he's playing his first yr in a major conference, and he's playing under a new system. I think he'll surprise people next year. People are getting their hopes up too much for Martin like they tend to do for most freshmen.
 


underground629 said:
But Joey is 3rd on the team in ORtg and basically tied for 2nd in eFG% during conference play!!!! Gopher Warrior, help me out.

Honestly though, I think Joey gets too much crap on here. Yeah, he's not starter-caliber in the BT, but he wasn't brought in to be. We were supposed to have Buckles. Joey is a solid backup considering how much time Pitino had to recruit for that class. I really don't get that frustrated with Joey because he's been one of our best players in terms of knowing his limits offensively. He really doesn't take that many bad shots. He has solid footwork in the post, it's just unfortunate that he's not bigger. He's also a decent playmaker near the rim because of his unselfishness, patience and vision (as well as footwork). His turnovers usually don't bother me as much as when other players turn it over. He's typically trying to make a pass where if it's successful we're going to get an easy basket. It's not like a careless one on the perimeter that gets picked off like we've had problems with for years. Most of all though, he plays his ass off and sacrifices his body for the team (diving for loose balls and taking charges). It would be nice if he had better rebounding numbers, but quite often his contribution in rebounding just doesn't show up in the stats. He does a solid job of boxing out, almost to the point that he forgets he can actually grab the ball if it gets close to him. Let's also not forget that he's an underclassman, he's playing his first yr in a major conference, and he's playing under a new system. I think he'll surprise people next year. People are getting their hopes up too much for Martin like they tend to do for most freshmen.
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We got Joey because we found out that Buckles couldn't come here. King should not be a Big Ten starter, but he is forced into the role. I think he could be a solid role player in shorter minutes. We need Martin to be a step up next year.
 

bga1 said:
We got Joey because we found out that Buckles couldn't come here. King should not be a Big Ten starter, but he is forced into the role. I think he could be a solid role player in shorter minutes. We need Martin to be a step up next year.
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I thought Shell got the Buckles scholly.

King was coming here, Buckles or no Buckles.
 



I like King. He's not overly athletic and needs to be stronger with the ball. But, he's about the only guy on the team that's willing to give up his body for anything - the other being our littlest guy. King plays hard and pretty physical for a guy who is really physically overmatched. If he hits the weights, I truly see him being a poor mans Dusty.
 

Ski U Mah Gopher said:
I thought Shell got the Buckles scholly.

King was coming here, Buckles or no Buckles.
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I went back and checked the timing - you are correct. King made his decision in June and Buckles was not denied until August. Thanks for the correction.
 

King frustrates me at times but we have to step back and realize what he is. He's a transfer from Drake who really didn't set the MVC on fire so our expectations should have been low to begin with. He works hard, has a pretty nice shooting stroke, and a solid hook shot in the paint. He's obviously lacking in the size and atheticism department, especially as a PF, but I think a year in the S+C program will do him a lot of good and I think he'll be a solid backup his last two years here.
 

King has guts. He does not play scared. The problem is that his skill level and confidence don't match up. He tries to make plays that he is not capable of making. That said, I am glad that he is on the team. He is the kind of guy that I would hate on any other team, but love to have him on my favorite team.
 

I think King is having a good season for his size, abilities and experience. In a perfect world, he redshirts next year and gets bulked up- he looks as though he has never lifted in his life.

Even if he doesn't redshirt, I think he will be a big part of the team for the next few years and take on an even bigger role- he can score and wants to score, that is always needed.
 

We need to remember: this kid's just a sophomore. He's got plenty of time left to develop his game.
 

Joey can be a contributor over the course of his Gopher career. Think a lot of us would agree that in a couple years when (presumably) Pitino has had enough time to upgrade the talent on the roster, ideally Joey would be an 8th man. He's being thrown into the fire this season because our current roster demands that. Yes, he struggles quite a bit vs. the talent in the Big Ten, but he's given the Gophers some good moments, too.
 

The title of the thread and 20 comments and not one discussing his defense? Joey is fine offensively in comparison to his teammates.
He is a liability defensively. Does he hustle? Yes. Does he get beat on ball routinely? Yes Does he understand the concept of help defense? Evidence lacking to suggest he might.

I like Joey. His problem isn't offense.
 

King is a liability, but he is being asked to do more than he should have to since we don't have a true PF on the roster. I'll take him over Oto any time though. King is the better shooter, better low post player on offense, and generally brings a lot more energy. Starting next year, I see King being a good hustle guy off the bench at PF and possibly even SF. His defense is weak, but a lot of that is because he is shorter, smaller, and less athletic than most teams' starting PF. I'm more concerned about effort and desire when a player is lacking in physical gifts. Oto is lacking in effort and desire when he is in the game, or at least that's the way it looks most of the time.
 

Bad Gopher said:
He can be a liability at times a well as major asset. I have to admit, he did some things the other night that just about sunk his team including two ill-advised entry passes to Big Mo late in the game. On the other hand he's made some plays for us and can do some things Oto can't do. As much of a darling as Buggs is at the moment, there will come times when Joey will look pretty good by comparison.

Long term, I'm just not sure what role he has on a better team - a first division team, God willing. He just doesn't possess the physicality or athleticism to play the prototypical forward position at a high level in this league.
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King can be faulted for a number of things , but don't blame him for that last entry pass to Mo. He was wide open 4feet from the basket and the pass hit him square in the hands. I realize Malik was wide open on the wing , but given recent shooting %s , I would rather have Mo put up the shot.
 

bigticket1 said:
King can be faulted for a number of things , but don't blame him for that last entry pass to Mo. He was wide open 4feet from the basket and the pass hit him square in the hands. I realize Malik was wide open on the wing , but given recent shooting %s , I would rather have Mo put up the shot.
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That was a terrible play by King because of the time on the clock (13 seconds?). In that situation job #1 is to make sure that Iowa doesn't get the ball back with more than 3 seconds left and the whole court to run. After that- scoring on the possession is a bonus. King put the ball inside well before it was supposed to be. He got an ear full from Pitino for it.
 



I don't like the title to the thread. Joey may not have a 5 star skill set, but he's the best alternative that we have at this present time. That being the case, Joey King is an asset on the court because we'd really be in tough shape if he wasn't here at Minnesota right now. He is giving us everything that he's got. I can't ask for more.

Will he get better? I expect that he will and I expect that he will always be an asset for the Gophers.
 

tinyarch said:
I don't like the title to the thread. Joey may not have a 5 star skill set, but he's the best alternative that we have at this present time. That being the case, Joey King is an asset on the court because we'd really be in tough shape if he wasn't here at Minnesota right now. He is giving us everything that he's got. I can't ask for more.

Will he get better? I expect that he will and I expect that he will always be an asset for the Gophers.
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I agree with you on this. Not sure why people expect anything more from him? King is doing fine.
 

tinyarch said:
I don't like the title to the thread. Joey may not have a 5 star skill set, but he's the best alternative that we have at this present time. That being the case, Joey King is an asset on the court because we'd really be in tough shape if he wasn't here at Minnesota right now. He is giving us everything that he's got. I can't ask for more.

Will he get better? I expect that he will and I expect that he will always be an asset for the Gophers.
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Good post. It always amazes me how people harsh on guys for being put in the position to have to play a role at the fringe of their capabilities. It's not King's fault that he is being relied upon more heavily than he should. King gives everything he has, can score a little, is only a sophomore and is quite clearly coachable. Lay off, please, people.
 

Completely agree with the last few posts. How is he a "liability"? He is clearly a good option at PF relative to what else we could do, he is a HUGE asset as a starter for us. He's been dependable. Even when he makes a mistake, he's hustling and working hard (someone already mentioned his missed bunny followed by hustling back and breaking up an oop, that was a critical defensive play for us). He also almost won us the game @ Purdue.
 

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