Jim Souhan column: If Tubby can't turn this around, it's time to get Smart

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dpodoll68 said:
Again, proximity to talent means nothing if you can't actually secure the talent. Further, one entire border of Minnesota is taken up by the Dakotas, which produce almost no high-major players. Iowa borders Minnesota, Nebraska, Wisconsin, and most importantly, Illinois. I would agree with the proposition that Minnesota has the potential to be a better job than ISU, but it currently is not, and has not been based on history.
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Very good point about the talent that Iowa borders. Best thing for all involved is for Tubby and this team to finish the season strong. In terms of what's on the horizon for recruits, this is a very bad time for this team to be trending downward.
 


My god the stupidity in this thread is off the charts. ISU a better job than Minnesota? There is no coach in America that would choose to try to recruit to Ames, Iowa over Minneapolis, Minnesota. T
 

EG#9 said:
My god the stupidity in this thread is off the charts. ISU a better job than Minnesota? There is no coach in America that would choose to try to recruit to Ames, Iowa over Minneapolis, Minnesota. T
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dpdoll is more concerned with what happened over the past 30 years than what lies ahead.

Winning in MN cant happen since it has not happened historically.
 

EG#9 said:
My god the stupidity in this thread is off the charts. ISU a better job than Minnesota? There is no coach in America that would choose to try to recruit to Ames, Iowa over Minneapolis, Minnesota. T
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ISU is a much better job than Minnesota, and it's not close. Who would want to recruit to Lexington, KY, over New York City? St. John's is a better job than Kentucky.
 


ISU is not a far better job than MN. They aren't far apart either way.
 

dpodoll68 said:
ISU is a much better job than Minnesota, and it's not close. Who would want to recruit to Lexington, KY, over New York City? St. John's is a better job than Kentucky.
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Your Lexington vs NYC analogy doesn't hold up because KY has TRADITION!

ISU's tradition is very limited and probably worse than Minnesota's. Factor in a growing Twin Cities metro area that is producing at least 4 NBA draft picks this year and boasts 3 of the top 30 kids in 2014 and the Ames gig can't hold a candle to the Gophers gig. Also, the Big 12 is on life support. One more team bolts from that conference and it could crumble completely.
 

U of M is the only division 1 school in the state.

Moses87 said:
Your Lexington vs NYC analogy doesn't hold up because KY has TRADITION!

ISU's tradition is very limited and probably worse than Minnesota's. Factor in a growing Twin Cities metro area that is producing at least 4 NBA draft picks this year and boasts 3 of the top 30 kids in 2014 and the Ames gig can't hold a candle to the Gophers gig. Also, the Big 12 is on life support. One more team bolts from that conference and it could crumble completely.
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Any other state with 5 million people has 2-6 division one schools. If any coach could get a consistent winning team here they should be just fine. Wisconsin battles for recruits with Marquette instate, Indiana and Purdue battle. Here in colorado with fewer division one caliber players every year its CU, CSU, Air Force, and Northern Colordao. Yes the last 2 aren't big recruiters but i bet the players they do get hurts the "walk-on" canidates at the other 2. CSU is now in the top 25 and colorado is close. This state averages 1 high major recruit a year. I am sick of all the excuses, Minnesota despite all the cold weather disadvantage has many advantages its just the lack of a consistent winner that hinders it.
 




People keep talking like MN has a tremendous amount of top end talent. 2014 is not the norm by any means. Yes, Wisconsin has two top end programs in the state. But the talent in that state has been much higher than MN high school talent. I posted this in another thread, but in the past three years, just one MN kid has been ranked in the Rivals top 150 (Joe Coleman). In that same time frame, Iowa has produced four and Wisconsin 12.

At this point, I'd give Iowa St. the slight edge because their facilities are much better. The whole large metro area vs. small college town can be an advantage for the U, but it also can be a disadvantage. Not everyone wants to go to a big city. Some probably couldn't care less either way.
 



march madness said:
Any other state with 5 million people has 2-6 division one schools. If any coach could get a consistent winning team here they should be just fine. Wisconsin battles for recruits with Marquette instate, Indiana and Purdue battle. Here in colorado with fewer division one caliber players every year its CU, CSU, Air Force, and Northern Colordao. Yes the last 2 aren't big recruiters but i bet the players they do get hurts the "walk-on" canidates at the other 2. CSU is now in the top 25 and colorado is close. This state averages 1 high major recruit a year. I am sick of all the excuses, Minnesota despite all the cold weather disadvantage has many advantages its just the lack of a consistent winner that hinders it.
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Unfortunately, Wisconsin has been successfully battling the Gophers for Minnesota recruits. Dan Monson opened the door for the Badgers to raid in-state talent and Tubby has done little to to the bleeding.
 



Mikie S said:
Unfortunately, Wisconsin has been successfully battling the Gophers for Minnesota recruits. Dan Monson opened the door for the Badgers to raid in-state talent and Tubby has done little to to the bleeding.
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So which recruits from Minnesota went to Wisconsin that Tubby wanted?
 

GophersInIowa said:
People keep talking like MN has a tremendous amount of top end talent. 2014 is not the norm by any means. Yes, Wisconsin has two top end programs in the state. But the talent in that state has been much higher than MN high school talent. I posted this in another thread, but in the past three years, just one MN kid has been ranked in the Rivals top 150 (Joe Coleman). In that same time frame, Iowa has produced four and Wisconsin 12.

At this point, I'd give Iowa St. the slight edge because their facilities are much better. The whole large metro area vs. small college town can be an advantage for the U, but it also can be a disadvantage. Not everyone wants to go to a big city. Some probably couldn't care less either way.
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I'm not claiming we have an endless supply of top talent, but we do have enough talent here to keep the roster stable. The coaches job of 'securing the boarders' well enough to keep most of that talent here should mean less stress on finding talent elsewhere. Tubby has done that for the most part, but we will see if he can do it with the next big year. Iowa/Iowa St. does not have an advantage in that category. Every college has this advantage or that disadvantage, but Iowa St. has nothing that blows us away in any way. We are very similar overall while having many specific differences. Same with Iowa.
 


Minnesconsin fan said:
not sure which Tubby thread to put this in but it needs to be somewhere. This sort of toughness from the head coach would resonate with the staff and then the players and then the fans---and if it doesn't it still is a funny story to read.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...tate-buckeyes-urban-meyers-woody-hayes-turtle
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That is funny and horrifying at the same time. I liked this little snippet at the bottom: "Woody Hayes was advocating for Maryland to the Big Ten long before anyone else was."
 

jamiche said:
He would come here in less time than it will take you to finish reading this sentence.

It's probably a moot point because we are $2.5M shy of making that happen. Secondly, I'm not sure it works anyway. He's in his late 50's and hasn't recruited since he was a community college coach. As much as he's "one of us" he's in the retread category in NBA coaching circles. It might be an interesting experiment and maybe Tyus Jones would buy the "I can make you an NBA ready point guard" sales job. But it would be difficult to see it happening unless Flip said he would do it for a buck the first year.
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Flip had seven years as a college assistant (Minnesota and Tulsa) after Golden Valley. It has been a while, though.

I'd take him in a heartbeat. Not my first choice, but I don't think we're getting our first choices -- including Shaka. I expect Flip would be the best available to us.
 

I didn't realize Iowa has been producing more high division 1 players than Minnesota over the last 3 years. That is crazy, what do they have 1 million people. And Iowa and Iowa St. are fighting for those players. Either way, Minnesota produces more than Colorado and they have 2 pretty successful teams right now. We need a consistent winner and less excuses.
 

march madness said:
I didn't realize Iowa has been producing more high division 1 players than Minnesota over the last 3 years. That is crazy, what do they have 1 million people. And Iowa and Iowa St. are fighting for those players. Either way, Minnesota produces more than Colorado and they have 2 pretty successful teams right now. We need a consistent winner and less excuses.
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I'm not sure if that was directed at anyone in particular but just so everyone knows, I'm not trying to make excuses or anything. Regardless of how much talent you have in your backyard, you'll always have to recruit across the country.

The talent in MN has increased over the years, but I don't think it's as good as some believe compared to other Big Ten states.
 

I see the argument. We have some slower guys who are highly skilled in minnesota high school some years. Other years we have top 50 type guys. When we lose to Iowa, Northwestern, Wisconsin, who can start 4 players who can hit 3's it is fustrating. I wouldnt trade the Hollins duo for much and Trevor impresses me. I would love a pure pg getting both of those 2 open jumpers. i would enjoy some real picks and movement and a "get the ball into trevor" or find a seat by me attitude. It is yet another year where i get my hopes up and get dissappointed. Nothing besides a win or two in the tourney is going to save this season to me.
 

It wasn't directed at anyone. Just remember you have 1 team fighting for that talent. Iowa and Iowa st., Drake, northern Iowa all get guys from Iowa.
 

jamiche said:
He would come here in less time than it will take you to finish reading this sentence.

It's probably a moot point because we are $2.5M shy of making that happen. Secondly, I'm not sure it works anyway. He's in his late 50's and hasn't recruited since he was a community college coach. As much as he's "one of us" he's in the retread category in NBA coaching circles. It might be an interesting experiment and maybe Tyus Jones would buy the "I can make you an NBA ready point guard" sales job. But it would be difficult to see it happening unless Flip said he would do it for a buck the first year.
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I for one think he would do it for a buck for the first year. He banked about 15 million on the Washington deal. He would have a great story to pitch to the locals: "Let's bring a championship to Minnesota" and it would ring true because he has been a Gopher booster for so long. He's been in contact with all of the local kids. I am guessing he still had the fire and I'm sure he would hire some good recuriting and bench coach help. I would be pumped if they went this direction and I think you'd see a surge in season tickets.
 

bga1 said:
I for one think he would do it for a buck for the first year. He banked about 15 million on the Washington deal. He would have a great story to pitch to the locals: "Let's bring a championship to Minnesota" and it would ring true because he has been a Gopher booster for so long. He's been in contact with all of the local kids. I am guessing he still had the fire and I'm sure he would hire some good recuriting and bench coach help. I would be pumped if they went this direction and I think you'd see a surge in season tickets.
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Is Flip still getting paid by Washington?
 

station19 said:
Is Flip still getting paid by Washington?
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From Wiki:
On April 14, 2009, Saunders reached an agreement to become the new coach of the Washington Wizards.[4][5] The deal was reportedly worth $18 million over 4 years.
On January 24, 2012, Saunders was fired as the coach of the Wizards. Replaced by former Minnesota Timberwolves head coach Randy Wittman, Saunders departed the Wizards with a record of 51-130.[6]

It looks like he would finish getting paid the end of this year? Anyway- it would appear he isn't hurting for cash.
 

Saunders is also an 'ESPN NBA analyst,' he was on Mike and Mike this morning and they gave him that title.
 

From the Barn said:
So which recruits from Minnesota went to Wisconsin that Tubby wanted?
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Agree with this. Tubs can be blamed for not getting big time talent to stay in the program and for not coaching up the decent talent he has, but Wisconsin has hardly raided anyone from MN that the Gophs really wanted, unless I am really having a brain fart on someone. They have some good MN players, but Tubs had Williams and White from MN that year. Doubt any of the big three go to Wisconsin either. Although I do agree that MN has been beaten out by Wisconsin for other players, just not for MN kids.
 

Call it bad luck with.... Royce being such a flake , the mutiple injuries over the last 5 years, or the players leaving the program causing a lack of stability and true depth at every position moving forward, but unless the skys part and We end up with The big tree recruits in Minnesota plus theb onus of Jahil Okafer.who seems to be a package with Tyus...... Tubby is gone. The question ultimately has to be what is next for the program? I have read countless threads and opinions. My hunch is Norwood Teague is acutely awhere of who is possibly available to lift the program long term. He has a strong relationship with Dave Telep who has a strong pulse on recruiting and those who recruit well and would have the ability to move the program forward. Tubby was not his hire and the string of events seems to lead Norwood to put his stamp on this. Whoever is hired next coach will have the tools to solidify the program for years to come.
 

DuggieD said:
Call it bad luck with.... Royce being such a flake , the mutiple injuries over the last 5 years, or the players leaving the program causing a lack of stability and true depth at every position moving forward, but unless the skys part and We end up with The big tree recruits in Minnesota plus theb onus of Jahil Okafer.who seems to be a package with Tyus...... Tubby is gone. The question ultimately has to be what is next for the program? I have read countless threads and opinions. My hunch is Norwood Teague is acutely awhere of who is possibly available to lift the program long term. He has a strong relationship with Dave Telep who has a strong pulse on recruiting and those who recruit well and would have the ability to move the program forward. Tubby was not his hire and the string of events seems to lead Norwood to put his stamp on this. Whoever is hired next coach will have the tools to solidify the program for years to come.
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Actually well said. I agree.
 

Didn't want to start a new thread for this, but with VCU v. butler right now, Shaka V. Stevens. Damien Johnson weighs in with his thoughts about Shaka Smart (he's a pretty good coach)

@VIPJohnson34: Man I love #VCU style of play i would have fit in perfect with that style...I was about to transfer there after my freshman yr wit Monson

@VIPJohnson34: Damn Shaka Smart is a better coach than I gave him credit for. His off sets are cold his players play with a swagger n his squad has killa D
 

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