Jeff Jones, former top recruit, leaving Gophers football

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Pompous Elitist said:
I don't recall frequent reports of migraine. I remember a report of concussion and a lower limb issue and perhaps one report of migraine. Regardless, if he is a chronic migraine sufferer or post-concussive it would seem unlikely and perhaps punitive to enroll him in dafuq, Iowa, away from the top experts at the university that would be best qualified help him find the triggers and find proper treatments.

I really enjoy your informative posts Ice. Well, not really but I'll tolerate you like everyone else.
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Yeah, much better to imply that he's stupid. "True fans" don't talk about bad Bowl Games, they go after the players instead.

Your memory, like many of your posts, is pretty faulty.

August:

Jones has dealt with migraine headaches in camp, but Kill said Jones is fine and has dealt with those issues "his whole life...

http://www.twincities.com/gophers/c...all-jeff-jones-making-strides-year-adjustment

September:

• Jeff Jones - we'll get updated on him pretty soon, they're doing some tests.
http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...-Gophers-played-a-quot-terrible-quot-1st-half

December:

This fall, Jones switched positions again, this time to defensive back. He also struggled with concussions and migraines this season.

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_29264538/gophers-football-jeff-jones-jewel-2014-recruiting-class
 

Again, why would we send him packing if the issue is as debilitating as you suggest? They expect it to improve at Iowa Western, away from academic and medical resources, and family? That really makes no sense.

True chronic migraine sufferers are essentially disabled. They are unhireable. I'd much rather be labeled as a goof-off kid with the ability to get the ship upright than having a debilitating medical problem.

Nobody is calling him stupid, except you. There are plenty of gifted kids that get terrible marks in school for all types of reasons. Distractions, family issues, maturity, etc etc etc.
 

A scholarship player who can't cut the mustard does not belong in college. There is far too much help available for a scholarship player to not remain on course for graduation.

I will argue to the end with anyone who says players are GIVEN scholarships or say they have it easier than the student body.

HOWEVER, in regards to academic assistance it's not even close. Players have more than enough academic assistance, their grades and attendance is looked at on a weekly basis. There is no reason the should get to the point of flunking out of school.

I'm speculating but it appears obvious to me he wasn't playing because of this. No disrespect to the kids who did the right thing but from what I know and IMO they pale in comparison to Jeff as RB's. It's a damn shame he couldn't nut up for 24 months? He could have spent the rest of his life never stepping inside a school again.


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Pompous Elitist said:
Again, why would we send him packing if the issue is as debilitating as you suggest? They expect it to improve at Iowa Western, away from academic and medical resources, and family? That really makes no sense.

True chronic migraine sufferers are essentially disabled. They are unhireable. I'd much rather be labeled as a goof-off kid with the ability to get the ship upright than having a debilitating medical problem.

Nobody is calling him stupid, except you. There are plenty of gifted kids that get terrible marks in school for all types of reasons. Distractions, family issues, maturity, etc etc etc.
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Oh and health issues which the coaches have referenced but you've ignored, but again, you are pompous.

Well, you're the guy who don't recall it to be a problem but since your an expert on migraines now aren't many of them stress related? Just getting him out of the Twin Cities may help. You may have said that yourself.

As for being stupid the below comes pretty close doesn't it?

wow-- I have to say I find it really hard to feel sorry for someone that has every resource available to them to succeed (free tuition and tutors) that most kids do not have yet they can't make it work. He had people watching his back, helping him navigate the system and making sure he would go to class. I have a tough time thinking going to a CC will help his study habits.

Judge Smails: Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too
 

Sportsfan24 said:
I scholarship player who can't cut the mustard does not belong in college. There is far too much help available for a scholarship player to not remain on course for graduation.

I will argue to the end with anyone who says these are GIVEN scholarships or say they have it easier than the student body.

HOWEVER, in regards to academic assistance it's not even close. Players have more than enough academic assistance, their grades and attendance is looked at on a weekly basis.

I'm speculating but it appears obvious to me he wasn't playing because of this. No disrespect to the kids who did the right thing but from what I know and IMO they pale in comparison to Jeff as RB's. It's a damn shame he couldn't nut up for 24 months? He could have spent the rest of his life never stepping inside a school again.


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I tend to agree on your speculation. It was often discussed on here "why isn't he playing?" & I know 2 things for sure about Kill:
1. If you were not attending and/or struggling in school - you wouldn't play
2. He wouldn't make that public

Kill was all over this topic and I am sure even more so with JJ. Also explains why the Spring and early Fall chatter about him from the coaches dies down.

Good Luck JJ. Thanks for picking the Gophers. I hope you make it back here in a couple years.
 


Spoofin said:
I tend to agree on your speculation. It was often discussed on here "why isn't he playing?" & I know 2 things for sure about Kill:
1. If you were not attending and/or struggling in school - you wouldn't play
2. He wouldn't make that public

Kill was all over this topic and I am sure even more so with JJ. Also explains why the Spring and early Fall chatter about him from the coaches dies down.

Good Luck JJ. Thanks for picking the Gophers. I hope you make it back here in a couple years.
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Unless you were a Brewster recruit. Kill had NO compunction about telling people how those guys weren't attending class or cutting it academically. Kill never even had to say something about those players. Didn't he have special jersey covers for those guys to wear at practice?
 

Iceland12 said:
Unless you were a Brewster recruit. Kill had NO compunction about telling people how those guys weren't attending class or cutting it academically. Kill never even had to say something about those players. Didn't he have special jersey covers for those guys to wear at practice?
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It takes tough love to clean up a program
 

Spoofin said:
It takes tough love to clean up a program
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Don't disagree with that or think it was a bad idea. Just pointing out that Kill never mentioning those problems was factually wrong.
 

Iceland12 said:
Don't disagree with that or think it was a bad idea. Just pointing out that Kill never mentioning those problems was factually wrong.
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I will agree that his stance changed over time on that topic. He kept things very internal by the end.
 



Iceland12 said:
Oh and health issues which the coaches have referenced but you've ignored, but again, you are pompous.

Well, you're the guy who don't recall it to be a problem but since your an expert on migraines now aren't many of them stress related? Just getting him out of the Twin Cities may help. You may have said that yourself.

As for being stupid the below comes pretty close doesn't it?

wow-- I have to say I find it really hard to feel sorry for someone that has every resource available to them to succeed (free tuition and tutors) that most kids do not have yet they can't make it work. He had people watching his back, helping him navigate the system and making sure he would go to class. I have a tough time thinking going to a CC will help his study habits.

Judge Smails: Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too
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Nobody is ignoring his health issues. I simply dont buy that they are the main reason he wasnt playing. Maybe he missed some practices. He was two sport athlete in high school? Did well in his first year of college, per Claeys. If stress is causing near daily migraines, as you recklessly suggest, then i think he should take a break from school or football to figure things out.

Yes, i am familiar with migraines.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Well, this sucks but somewhat explains the mysterious goings-ons the last several months. The explanations Kill and others gave seemed like hogwash after all the praise heaped on him last spring. he was practicing yet not playing, questionable injuries etc. We will never know the particulars of why but obviously the pressures of big-time athletics and academics came to a head... Hopefully getting away from home and away from possibly distracting influences will help. Then again, maybe he doesn't have the desire to be great.Maddening. He has/had all kinds of talent... True chronic migraine sufferers are essentially disabled. They are unhireable. I'd much rather be labeled as a goof-off kid with the ability to get the ship upright than having a debilitating medical problem....
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"If stress is causing near daily migraines, as you recklessly suggest".

"Recklessly"? That's psychological projection on you part isn't it.

Don't know why Jones failed academically. Do know that Kill and Claeys both said he had programs with migraines here and that he has dealt with them "his whole life". Last year without football T.C. said he did well. Don't know if he applied himself in the schoolroom either. Ignore the possibility that the migraines kept him from doing his work and stating again and again how he may just be a "goof off" or lazy in the classroom? That seems far more reckless.

Now go ahead and change the subject and throw in another personal attack. That's all you got.
 

I don't think we should let the Minneapolis School District off the hook either. Jones simply wasn't ready for college and while a lion's share of that can be laid at his feet, the Minneapolis School District is just letting too many kids--athletically-talented and otherwise--fall through the cracks. When school support staff saw Jones' athletic talent, they should have had an academic plan in place for him to make sure he would be in the right position to earn a scholarship. Again, I'm not letting Jones off the hook, but it should have never come to this.
 

Im not the one throwing around assertions he has a chronic and debilitating medical condition. Then to suggest we throw him out of the bus after one bad semester. Ive never seen or heard of a program that would do such a thing. Probation and medical assistance would seem like a better way to go. More likely, its not chronic migraines.

Speculation on the cause of his academic issues could encompass a pretty wide range of issues. Like i said in my post we will never know the particulars here. Jeff is in the public eye, like it or not. People are going to speculate. Including you. I just think your theory is probably not correct. I really hope its not the case, for his sake.
 



50PoundHead said:
I don't think we should let the Minneapolis School District off the hook either. Jones simply wasn't ready for college and while a lion's share of that can be laid at his feet, the Minneapolis School District is just letting too many kids--athletically-talented and otherwise--fall through the cracks. When school support staff saw Jones' athletic talent, they should have had an academic plan in place for him to make sure he would be in the right position to earn a scholarship. Again, I'm not letting Jones off the hook, but it should have never come to this.
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My kids are products of the MPLS public schools (including Washburn High), and although the class sizes are large and the amount of resources compared to some of the wealthier suburban districts is small, it is still possible to get a great education.
Best of luck to Jeff! He will get a chance to play and his class work will be lighter.
 

WorkingMyTailOff said:
My kids are products of the MPLS public schools (including Washburn High), and although the class sizes are large and the amount of resources compared to some of the wealthier suburban districts is small, it is still possible to get a great education.
Best of luck to Jeff! He will get a chance to play and his class work will be lighter.
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It can be a great fit for the right kids and I apologize if I painted the district as a cesspool. Southwest is one of the five best HSs in the state and there are all kinds of opportunities at each high school site. I'm just saying there should have been interventions for Jones by the time he got to high school so he had an academic plan to follow and would face consequences if he didn't follow it. I don't know about Minneapolis per se, but Minnesota ranks near the bottom nationally in guidance counselors per student and I think this is one place where it shows up.
 


Sorry to see this but I understand and wish him nothing but the best. I hope he returns to the U, but it wouldn't shock me if he doesn't.
 

50PoundHead said:
It can be a great fit for the right kids and I apologize if I painted the district as a cesspool. Southwest is one of the five best HSs in the state and there are all kinds of opportunities at each high school site. I'm just saying there should have been interventions for Jones by the time he got to high school so he had an academic plan to follow and would face consequences if he didn't follow it. I don't know about Minneapolis per se, but Minnesota ranks near the bottom nationally in guidance counselors per student and I think this is one place where it shows up.
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Not saying he had things easy in life, but it's Jeff's responsibility for his situation and Jeff's responsibility to get himself out if he wants to play again. If he does he will be a better person for it in the end.
 

So are we still pretending he didn't play because of concussions? Sometimes things are not exactly as they seem.
 

Regarding eligibility, you get five years to play four the day you start class. You only get the fifth year by declaring one year a redshirt, which is, generally speaking, a year you are on the team and don't play.

JJ used year one taking classes while not a member of the team, year two was this year, year three would be at the CC, year four could be at the U. He could still redshirt and practice a year, but it wouldn't give him another year of eligibility.

Alex Erickson at Wisconsin is in the same boat. He's trying to get an extra year by pleading ignorance/mercy about his fall semester freshman year when he was not on the team. I don't think he'll get it, but I suppose JJ could do the same.

Ideally JJ would have done a PG year out east or greyshirted (started in the spring). However I'm not sure a greyshirt would have worked for JJ given his academic status at the time.
 


Iceland12 said:
Unless you were a Brewster recruit. Kill had NO compunction about telling people how those guys weren't attending class or cutting it academically. Kill never even had to say something about those players. Didn't he have special jersey covers for those guys to wear at practice?
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Don't say nothing, don't nothing, don't say nothing, don't say nothing..........[emoji35]


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I'm not saying this is a huge loss, cause it isn't. But it would be nice to see a 4* succeed here.
 

Spoofin said:
I will agree that his stance changed over time on that topic. He kept things very internal by the end.
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I don't believe his stance ever changed. It's the part of college football I hate.

Coaches have too or choose to manipulate the fans through the media. The best coaches stay true to themselves therefore they remain consistent. The rest fall somewhere in between.

Kill mostly certainly treated Brewster recruits differently than his own. That's a negative in my book.

However my guy Brewster chose to play Trumaine Brock up until he was academically ineligible; this means Brock ignored what he needed to do (academic staff would have been on him for a while and Brewster would have received reports every step of the way) and Brewster played him anyway.

Kill IMO correctly chose to protect his player from scrutiny but also hold him accountable. Unfortunately the whole consistency thing.......

Results. Brewsters guy is collecting checks. Kills guy will be found somewhere in south Mpls in the near future; if he couldn't make it at the U.........

Who's right, Who's wrong? I heavily lean toward Kill but the class is half empty (or full) for both IMO.


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Sportsfan24 said:
However my guy Brewster chose to play Trumaine Brock up until he was academically ineligible; this means Brock ignored what he needed to do (academic staff would have been on him for a while and Brewster would have received reports every step of the way) and Brewster played him anyway.
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If a coach knowingly encouraged a player to ignore academics because they knew it wouldn't matter if they were declared ineligible after the season and didn't arrange assistance or help the student, to me that is a fire-able offense. Student first, athlete second. No compromises on what should be the core value of the program.
 

Ski U Master said:
If a coach knowingly encouraged a player to ignore academics because they knew it wouldn't matter if they were declared ineligible after the season and didn't arrange assistance or help the student, to me that is a fire-able offense. Student first, athlete second. No compromises on what should be the core value of the program.
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I would agree 100% with you....but that's not what happened.


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badgergopher said:
Regarding eligibility, you get five years to play four the day you start class. You only get the fifth year by declaring one year a redshirt, which is, generally speaking, a year you are on the team and don't play.

JJ used year one taking classes while not a member of the team, year two was this year, year three would be at the CC, year four could be at the U. He could still redshirt and practice a year, but it wouldn't give him another year of eligibility.

Alex Erickson at Wisconsin is in the same boat. He's trying to get an extra year by pleading ignorance/mercy about his fall semester freshman year when he was not on the team. I don't think he'll get it, but I suppose JJ could do the same.

Ideally JJ would have done a PG year out east or greyshirted (started in the spring). However I'm not sure a greyshirt would have worked for JJ given his academic status at the time.
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The situation for Jones is different than most student-athletes because of the academic circumstances under which he entered the U. He would only receive a fourth year if he continued to make progress toward a degree. It's why there was constant debate about whether he was classified as a freshman or sophomore this year. The question is whether his struggles this semester and detour to a JUCO indicate a lack of progress and put his fourth year in jeopardy.
 

We all had high hopes for Jones with the Gophers, but in terms of what we're actually losing it doesn't really matter all that much. At this point, Jones has to be considered a bust...plus we have two really nice freshman RBs. Losing the ACTUAL Jones affects our team very little...it just puts a damper on what we dreamt 'could have been.' I would only be upset if it left our RB core bare because he wasted time on a kid who couldn't cut it. Best of luck to him, though. I hope he finds his path.
 

Iceland12 said:
There were reports throughout the season, including from Coaches T.C. and Kill, that Jones was dealing with migraines on an almost regular basis. That could certainly be a solid reason for falling behind academically. Particularly for a single semester.

That said it's a free, anonymous internet board. People speculating like d-bags is to be expected.
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+1 I was thinking the same thing.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
I don't believe his stance ever changed. It's the part of college football I hate.

Coaches have too or choose to manipulate the fans through the media. The best coaches stay true to themselves therefore they remain consistent. The rest fall somewhere in between.

Kill mostly certainly treated Brewster recruits differently than his own. That's a negative in my book.

However my guy Brewster chose to play Trumaine Brock up until he was academically ineligible; this means Brock ignored what he needed to do (academic staff would have been on him for a while and Brewster would have received reports every step of the way) and Brewster played him anyway.

Kill IMO correctly chose to protect his player from scrutiny but also hold him accountable. Unfortunately the whole consistency thing.......

Results. Brewsters guy is collecting checks. Kills guy will be found somewhere in south Mpls in the near future; if he couldn't make it at the U.........

Who's right, Who's wrong? I heavily lean toward Kill but the class is half empty (or full) for both IMO.


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This is a great post. Thanks.
 

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