Jaylen Waters Hit

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The kicker should have been kicked out for targeting against Michigan last week.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I'm with those that think it was dirty and unnecessary but also not really worth of an ejection. Waters needs to be smarter then that and not let his emotions get the better of him in that situation.
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Agreed. Julius was taking his mouthpiece off.

I am wondering about team discipline on the field. Claeys need to reign in the players. Actions by Myrick in the previous game and now this. These players can show some restrain by keeping their emotions in check or they may end up hurting the team by changing the tone or the outcome of the game.

Waters's action angered the PSU players, and may have cost us the game. They were playing emotionless in the first half until then.

At what point can a kicker be treated like a linebacker when he goes deliberately full throttle to put the hurt on returners? Kickers get a lot of latitude of protection by the refs and rightly so. But, can they also be called for targeting?

I think that was quite an acting job on Julius' part. Sooner or later, someone will truly put the hurt on him. What goes around comes around.

Headline: "Big Toe's In-grown Nails Got Much Needed Clipping".
 

Waters is a punk. He has been pulling crap like this all year on kickoffs. His stupid play fired up the team and crowd. Kill would at least have given him a public and much deserved a.. chewing on the sideline. Claeys should bench him for a week to send a message.
 

IDK. It looked like the kicker let up well before the hit and was in a bit of a defenseless position at the time. Waters should have just checked him to make sure he wasn't going to be involved in a potential tackle. I'm sure he got and an earful about letting him get involved in the tackle on the previous kickoff and was a little overzealous. Waters needed to be smarter about how he played that situation if you look at it impartially.
 

beavergopher said:
Waters is a punk. He has been pulling crap like this all year on kickoffs. His stupid play fired up the team and crowd. Kill would at least have given him a public and much deserved a.. chewing on the sideline. Claeys should bench him for a week to send a message.
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Sorry, but no. His dirty play really had nothing to do with the outcome. The crowd was already fired up, as the kickoff where he got himself tossed came after McSorely's TD run, which extended PSU's scoring streak to 17 unanswered. And even with his dumb penalty, the Gophers marched 87 yards to tie it on Brooks' TD run. The crowd and players weren't into it until that 80 yard bomb. That's the big problem.
 


beavergopher said:
Waters is a punk. He has been pulling crap like this all year on kickoffs. His stupid play fired up the team and crowd. Kill would at least have given him a public and much deserved a.. chewing on the sideline. Claeys should bench him for a week to send a message.
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I have been extremely pleased with his play on special teams. Constantly lighting some guy up does make him a "punk." In fact he has turned into one of my favorites.
 

beavergopher said:
Waters is a punk. He has been pulling crap like this all year on kickoffs. His stupid play fired up the team and crowd. Kill would at least have given him a public and much deserved a.. chewing on the sideline. Claeys should bench him for a week to send a message.
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hot take dude if i had to guess you're a white dude over the age of 55 with little athletic competency how far off am i?
 


Still haven't seen an angle from either endzone that would show the ball and hit at the same time. I would imagine that exists. Until you see that is impossible to judge the play.
If the ball is in play - no penalty
If it is a little late - penalty, no ejection
If it was multiple seconds late - ejection


The fact they haven't shown the play tells me it probably wasn't multiple seconds late or they would have shown it
 



I never saw a good replay that let me tell when the hit came relative to the whistle, but if that hit was dirty, it was only dirty for being late. It was a shoulder to shoulder block on a player moving towards the ball carrier. The special teams penalty that really ticked me off was the boneheaded hit on the punt returner.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I'm with those that think it was dirty and unnecessary but also not really worth of an ejection. Waters needs to be smarter then that and not let his emotions get the better of him in that situation.
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Screw that, this is football. 11 vs 11. nothing is dirty or unnecessary on this play as long as the hit is inside the rules. There are no "too far away from the action" rules. Guy is still running down the field, neither player hears a whistle (both still actively engaged), nor does the PSU player in the background. Now if there was a whistle that Waters should have heard.... then ok, then we get into dirty territory. However, the dirty is only due to timing.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
What does his race have to do with anything?
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why do you care if i included it? are you uncomfortable? im not going any deeper down this rabbit hole after your reaction on the board if you actually care and arent just trying to stir the pot you can pm me.

get back to the topic
 

hungan1 said:
Agreed. Julius was taking his mouthpiece off.

I am wondering about team discipline on the field. Claeys need to reign in the players. Actions by Myrick in the previous game and now this. These players can show some restrain by keeping their emotions in check or they may end up hurting the team by changing the tone or the outcome of the game.

Waters's action angered the PSU players, and may have cost us the game. They were playing emotionless in the first half until then.

At what point can a kicker be treated like a linebacker when he goes deliberately full throttle to put the hurt on returners? Kickers get a lot of latitude of protection by the refs and rightly so. But, can they also be called for targeting?

I think that was quite an acting job on Julius' part. Sooner or later, someone will truly put the hurt on him. What goes around comes around.

Headline: "Big Toe's In-grown Nails Got Much Needed Clipping".
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The same way Kill reined in guys like Epping when they picked up personal foul after personal foul? This is to be expected at some level. Kill came in with a play "whistle to whistle" strategy and when you play with your eyes like BBs, you're going to go past the whistle. Key is playing in control and that's been a problem since Kill came to town.

As per yesterday, it was a dirty play by Walters. I don't know if it merited ejection, but maybe the refs thought it was best for his own safety. As for the Penn State kicker Fatty Smurf, if he wants to be a football player, maybe he should expect to get hit and maybe he should leave his mouthguard in until he reaches the sidelines (I think it's a rule that players have to have their mouthguards on while on the field of play. Help me out someone who knows.). If he's going to barrel down the field, he's fair game. Just because the sporting press has picked him out as their new favorite player shouldn't encase him in metaphorical bubble wrap.
 



This is much ado about little. Late hit, not dirty, on a headhunter that was begging for it. Of all the fails that hurt the team yesterday, players, coaches, officials, this was the one that frustrated me the least. All of those mistakes were also preventable.

That said, I agree if it was after the whistle Waters needs to get his emotions under control or sit. Personally I give him a pass on it but Claeys does not have that luxury.
 

die hard gopher said:
I have been extremely pleased with his play on special teams. Constantly lighting some guy up does make him a "punk." In fact he has turned into one of my favorites.
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Why is he only on special teams? Punk is harsh but there's a reason he doesn't see the field otherwise.


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Pompous Elitist said:
This is much ado about little. Late hit, not dirty, on a headhunter that was begging for it. Of all the fails that hurt the team yesterday, players, coaches, officials, this was the one that frustrated me the least. All of those mistakes were also preventable.

That said, I agree if it was after the whistle Waters needs to get his emotions under control or sit. Personally I give him a pass on it but Claeys does not have that luxury.
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By "dirty," I meant "cheap," but not "flagrant." I agree it didn't create an insurmountable disadvantage.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
This is much ado about little. Late hit, not dirty, on a headhunter that was begging for it. Of all the fails that hurt the team yesterday, players, coaches, officials, this was the one that frustrated me the least. All of those mistakes were also preventable.

That said, I agree if it was after the whistle Waters needs to get his emotions under control or sit. Personally I give him a pass on it but Claeys does not have that luxury.
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Really? He now has to sit the first half of the Iowa game. Hurts his team in two games.


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Breakin' The Plane said:
Not sure it was worth kicking him out. It was dirty, but not targeting. DBs and LBs take cheap shots like that on offensive players all the time.
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I would agree with this. Looked like a bit of acting by the kicker to me. Not deserving of kicking waters out.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Really? He now has to sit the first half of the Iowa game. Hurts his team in two games.


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That comes back to whether one agrees it was deserving of ejection. As one of our resident officials your tendency is to give the benefit of the doubt to same. That's a fair viewpoint.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
That comes back to whether one agrees it was deserving of ejection. As one of our resident officials your tendency is to give the benefit of the doubt to same. That's a fair viewpoint.
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Have to take the facts. It was late and if late, unnecessary. It's not reviewable because targeting was not involved. The officials got one look at it and two officials agreed to eject. After we've seen it 100 times in slow motion I agree he should not have been ejected because of the soccer flop.

Don't put the official in a place to make that call.


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Correct me if the rule has changed, but a flagrant personal foul resulting in ejection is defined as:

"By rule a flagrant personal foul is a rule infraction so extreme or deliberate that it places an opponent in danger of catastrophic injury that it results in an ejection."

Do you agree a shoulder to shoulder, non-blindside hit is within this definition? Or is it better defined as a late hit. How late is still unknown.
 

Mike Grimm just said hit was "8 seconds after play was over".


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Couple of points;

First off, I have no clue why this guy is so far down field on KO. Typically, albeit not always a strong tackler, the kicker is the last line of defense, stays behind the play making sure nobody gets past the coverage. Unless they've designated someone else as their safety valve because this numbnuts is intent on barreling down field to find contact, he's leaving his team open for big returns

Secondly, if this didn't happen this week, it was going to happen sooner or later. Most players, especially ones that are primarily special teams guys, don't take kindly to kickers/punters making themselves part of the story. I doubt this is the last time this happens, unless this assclown starts staying back in coverage. He will get lit up again, and probably again.
 

CentralGopher said:
I would agree with this. Looked like a bit of acting by the kicker to me. Not deserving of kicking waters out.
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Just a bit. Soccer players are calling him for tips on how to flop. It may have stung a bit but he laid there like he just got knocked out. Then was joking around on the sideline shortly after.

Something I thought of last night, a bunch of their players left the bench after the hit. I know Diggs for the Vikings got a penalty for doing that. Is it not a penalty in college to leave the bench in that situation?
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Couple of points;

First off, I have no clue why this guy is so far down field on KO. Typically, albeit not always a strong tackler, the kicker is the last line of defense, stays behind the play making sure nobody gets past the coverage. Unless they've designated someone else as their safety valve because this numbnuts is intent on barreling down field to find contact, he's leaving his team open for big returns

Secondly, if this didn't happen this week, it was going to happen sooner or later. Most players, especially ones that are primarily special teams guys, don't take kindly to kickers/punters making themselves part of the story. I doubt this is the last time this happens, unless this assclown starts staying back in coverage. He will get lit up again, and probably again.
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A faster player is the safety. 99's job is to kick and run down the middle of the field and make a tackle. It has zero to do with what Waters did to him. Saying someone deserves it is saying he's done something outside a rule. The guy expects to get hit, but within the rules.


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MaxyJR1 said:
Really? He now has to sit the first half of the Iowa game. Hurts his team in two games.


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It wasn't targeting, so he does not need to sit out any of the Iowa game.
 


die hard gopher said:
I have been extremely pleased with his play on special teams. Constantly lighting some guy up does make him a "punk." In fact he has turned into one of my favorites.
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100%. I hope he keeps lighting people up all season. I also hope it becomes a tradition for every team to take out Julius if he comes charging down the field like a gunner. It'd be fun to put together a highlight tape of different teams taking him out.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
100%. I hope he keeps lighting people up all season. I also hope it becomes a tradition for every team to take out Julius if he comes charging down the field like a gunner. It'd be fun to put together a highlight tape of different teams taking him out.
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Agreed, hate to say it, but sometimes you have to send a message.
 

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