Jack Wilson commits

[cjbfbp]

There has to be HUNDREDS of other guys we could have tried for

Well, let me educate you about that. As of 8:54 AM Central Time this morning, there were exactly 115 uncommitted centers listed on Verbal Commits. There are fewer centers listed than any other position. Also, the center listing is a little uncertain. Some of those listed as centers really appear to be forwards if you look at their numbers and some players listed as forwards could be de facto centers.

Now, I'm not going to bother going through all 115 at this time to see which of them meet the following criteria:

1) One year scholarship only; AND
2) Willing to accept limited playing time.

I have gone through many of them previously. I would say that many of those who meet the first factor would not be willing to come here under the second condition. They have better resumes than to come to a place under that condition. I suspect the primary purpose of Wilson is to have a really massive opponent for Payne to practice against and use in spot game situations.

Is this who I would have chosen to recruit? Probably not. I checked out Wilson shortly after he dropped in the portal and my reaction was "Uh...no!" But, I suspect that Johnson also wants to use Fox there and maybe occasionally Ihnen (who I thought was a fairly decent small ball center on those occasions when he played the post during his first two years).

 

[MNVCGUY]

Timing for me is a part of it yes. Again, fully aware we aren't going to get an all American C here, fine. But this is just giving up without even trying. There has to be HUNDREDS of other guys we could have tried for, if ben says man I tried for guys and in June this was it, well thats not good but the concept and perception is a little better.

Think of it like going to the used car lot with $15k as a budget. The first car you see has no radio, AC is out, 2 windows don't work and the rust is so bad you can put your foot through it. Instead of doing your due diligence you walk up and offer the dealer all $15k when the sticker says $850! And you walk out going hey it starts and stops, man what a deal I got!!

It seems very likely that Ben's future with the program is going to be dictated a lot by what happens next season.

So if he has a role he wants to fill, and he finds a transfer that he feels can fill that roll....should he spend time pursuing tons of other big men for a very limited back of the rotation spot, or should he take the player he feels fills the need and keep the focus on the much higher priority guards?

 

[DarthGopher]

Not replying to you specifically but it is weird how bashing former players is cool but criticizing coach and team is toxic on this board. Especially if you're an idiot questioning the use of this scholarship. I should shut my mouth, sit back, and allow this staff to keep winning at the extremely high rate they have been the last two seasons. They have already earned unquestionable support right? BTW, people are happy with this signing because now we have a tall guy in a jersey for Payne to practice against.

Are you under the impression you can disallow something and enforce a different outcome? Because I've got news for you - you can't. There isn't a damn thing you can do about it. You know it. I know it. Everybody knows it. You could strap yourself to a tree and refuse to eat until the University made things right in your eyes. Unfortunately, you'll starve to death and CBJ will still be the coach this fall.

Don't confuse accepting the brutal truth of the situation with being pollyannish about it. The program either takes significant steps this season or there will be changes. If something can't continue, it won't.

Do I think CBJ turns it around? Truthfully, no. But I've been wrong before and I'm hoping I'm wrong again. We have another year on this lease for sure. In the meantime, I am choosing to wait and see what happens. Much less stressful than constantly fretting over something I literally have zero control over.

 

[eker0016]

Well, let me educate you about that. As of 8:54 AM Central Time this morning, there were exactly 115 uncommitted centers listed on Verbal Commits. There are fewer centers listed than any other position. Also, the center listing is a little uncertain. Some of those listed as centers really appear to be forwards if you look at their numbers and some players listed as forwards could be de facto centers.

Now, I'm not going to bother going through all 115 at this time to see which of them meet the following criteria:

1) One year scholarship only; AND
2) Willing to accept limited playing time.

I have gone through many of them previously. I would say that many of those who meet the first factor would not be willing to come here under the second condition. They have better resumes than to come to a place under that condition. I suspect the primary purpose of Wilson is to have a really massive opponent for Payne to practice against and use in spot game situations.

Is this who I would have chosen to recruit? Probably not. I checked out Wilson shortly after he dropped in the portal and my reaction was "Uh...no!" But, I suspect that Johnson also wants to use Fox there and maybe occasionally Ihnen (who I thought was a fairly decent small ball center on those occasions when he played the post during his first two years).

This is a dose of reality. Payne looked great to close out the season and it is clear he will play a lot. The only obstacles are foul trouble/injury. And we haven't been a good team making tourney runs, so nobody is coming here for a promise of postseason glory. Good luck selling that picture to a grad transfer.

EDITED due to error: I think it is similar to the Dan Oturu/Matz Stockman situation. Matz Stockman decided to transfer in the summer of 2018 when Oturu got to campus, because he only had one year of eligibility remaining and saw that Oturu would be the starter. He committed to Cal and only came back when something fell through with admission. It's tough to sell a marginal backup role to a center in their final year of eligibility, even when they are already on your team!

Stockman was about 3 tiers better of a player than Jack Wilson and he still only saw 10 minutes/game, and only committed to us because he didn't really have any other options that late in the game.

Other people mentioned the "order" of commits thing. If Ben waited until June or July to sign his depth center, that is how he ends up with 6'7" 215lb D-2 Danny Ogele, who is not going to help Payne or against an Edey. Or if you are waiting around for Sterling Manley (who we could have made our starting center!) and he turns you down in July, you are screwed. IMO this is evidence that Ben is actually learning and improving. Call me delusional, whatever.

Ben absolutely needs to land an impact guard (Wrightsell or other), and ideally another depth guard or wing. If Payne goes down with a season ending injury in October (knocking on wood) yes we are screwed, we don't have a lot of margin for error. But Ben is not going to be able to sign a post who would rescue the season if that happened anyway.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

I am almost certain those who are saying ‘we need to see next season’ said the exact same thing this time last year.

 

[cjbfbp]

This is a dose of reality. Payne looked great to close out the season and it is clear he will play a lot. The only obstacles are foul trouble/injury. And we haven't been a good team making tourney runs, so nobody is coming here for a promise of postseason glory. Good luck selling that picture to a grad transfer.

I think it is similar to the Dan Oturu/Matz Stockman situation. After playing 24 minutes/game his freshman year, he went up to 34 minutes/game his sophomore year. It was clear as day that Matz Stockman was not going to see a lot of time in his final year of eligibility, so he entered the transfer portal in June. This was AFTER sitting out an entire year in Minnesota! He only came back to Minnesota in August when something fell through with his admission to Cal. Freshman Sam Freeman was the only healthy player left on our roster in August who was capable of playing the post (Curry was still rehabbing).

Stockman was about 3 tiers better of a player than Jack Wilson and he still only saw 10 minutes/game, and only committed to us because he didn't really have any other options that late in the game.

Ben absolutely needs to land an impact guard (Wrightsell or other), and ideally another depth guard or wing. If Payne goes down with a season ending injury in October (knocking on wood) yes we are screwed, we don't have a lot of margin for error. But Ben is not going to be able to sign a post who would rescue the season if that happened anyway.

Slight technical correction: Stockman played his one year when Oturu was a freshman. But, your point is well taken. Stockman would have been much more valuable when he transferred had the one-time transfer rule been in effect at the time. The fact that he had to sit out a year diminished his value on the transfer market. Of course, we also had the advantage of him transferring from dad's school. That's why his entry into the transfer market and his commitment to Minnesota were listed on the same day!

 

[Ragnor]

IF this is as a scholarship player it's an absolute joke. Downgrading from Treyton Thompson was quite a task, but Ben might have managed to do it. Remember when people claimed he was a "good" recruiter, some even claimed "great"? If 4 of the 13 scholarships go to Ramberg, Wilson, and two guys coming off double serious knee injuries...I don't want to hear a single word all year about an injury or illness or any nonsense claiming "bad luck".

Why is Ramburg brought up as coming back? Didn't he go through the senior ceremony on the last home game this year?

 

[eker0016]

Slight technical correction: Stockman played his one year when Oturu was a freshman. But, your point is well taken. Stockman would have been much more valuable when he transferred had the one-time transfer rule been in effect at the time. The fact that he had to sit out a year diminished his value on the transfer market. Of course, we also had the advantage of him transferring from dad's school. That's why his entry into the transfer market and his commitment to Minnesota were listed on the same day!

My bad, thank you for the correction. I misremembered that. I'm going to charitably re-interpret my argument then. When Oturu showed up in the summer, Stockman saw the writing on the wall that Oturu would get big minutes as a freshman and decided to transfer somewhere he could get more PT.

Center is a little like QB -- you can't play them together like you can forwards/guards, so if you have a talented guy out front it's hard for other players to see a path to playing time.

 

[60's Guy]

I think the order of the commitment is part of what is driving some of the negativity (not that this board needs any help on that front). If we had multiple guards committed and were looking at a base roster of:

Backcourt - Mitchell, Carrington, Christie, Transfer Guard, Transfer Guard
Frontcourt - Payne, Garcia, Betts, JOJ, Fox, Ihnen

Then this commitment is viewed for what it actually is which is an emergency big man/back of the bench kind of guy because with that roster above there aren't going to be many minutes available as long as everyone is healthy.

So, if I add Jack to the frontcourt list above that's 12 scholarships.
Who is the 13th? Didn't we have 4 available before Jack? Why only two left?
Who we forgetting?
Isn't the walkon from New Life at center also filling the backup center role?

 

[Big Dawg]

This is a dose of reality. Payne looked great to close out the season and it is clear he will play a lot. The only obstacles are foul trouble/injury. And we haven't been a good team making tourney runs, so nobody is coming here for a promise of postseason glory. Good luck selling that picture to a grad transfer.

EDITED due to error: I think it is similar to the Dan Oturu/Matz Stockman situation. Matz Stockman decided to transfer in the summer of 2018 when Oturu got to campus, because he only had one year of eligibility remaining and saw that Oturu would be the starter. He committed to Cal and only came back when something fell through with admission. It's tough to sell a marginal backup role to a center in their final year of eligibility, even when they are already on your team!

Stockman was about 3 tiers better of a player than Jack Wilson and he still only saw 10 minutes/game, and only committed to us because he didn't really have any other options that late in the game.

Other people mentioned the "order" of commits thing. If Ben waited until June or July to sign his depth center, that is how he ends up with 6'7" 215lb D-2 Danny Ogele, who is not going to help Payne or against an Edey. Or if you are waiting around for Sterling Manley (who we could have made our starting center!) and he turns you down in July, you are screwed. IMO this is evidence that Ben is actually learning and improving. Call me delusional, whatever.

Ben absolutely needs to land an impact guard (Wrightsell or other), and ideally another depth guard or wing. If Payne goes down with a season ending injury in October (knocking on wood) yes we are screwed, we don't have a lot of margin for error. But Ben is not going to be able to sign a post who would rescue the season if that happened anyway.

If you were a P6 starting 5 type player (in the portal), would you come to MN with a returning front court of Payne/Garcia/Ihnen/Fox/Betts? I wouldn't. The best we could expect would be a guy who would be willing to spell Payne for a few minutes per night on a team that is projected to be (my opinion) a weakling Wednesday/non NCAA tourney team. What does that leave you? Guys like Wilson. His HS recruiting profile looks better than TT's. If TT and Wilson were standing in the Barn right now and I had to take one and send the other packing, TT would be picking up that duffle bag and walking. Barring injuries Wilson is playing, at best, 4-5 min/gm. I don't care about the order as long as Ben picks up a minimum of 1 more G, preferably 2. Or a PG and a comboG/wing-shooter. I will be satisfied (not happy) with a G situation or Mitchell, Christie/Carrington/portal G. From the outside looking in, I would think Ben could sell at least one more G (playing time). Good luck Ben. I'm staying optimistic because that's all I have.

 

[GopherTheJugular]

Now, I'm not going to bother going through all 115 at this time to see which of them meet the following criteria:

1) One year scholarship only; AND
2) Willing to accept limited playing time.

Interesting. Regarding #2, did you make that up yourself? Or is Ben somehow opposed to offering guys that could legitimately earn more playing time? And surely the last thing we'd want is to bring in someone who could compete with Payne, right? Pity the thought!

I'm not sure I see the brilliance in the anti-PJ Fleck approach: "you're kinda good and have potential, so I'll make sure to bring in people worse than you".

I like the Fleck approach of trying to out-recruit your roster, but that's just me.

 

[GopherTheJugular]

Other people mentioned the "order" of commits thing. If Ben waited until June or July to sign his depth center, that is how he ends up with 6'7" 215lb D-2 Danny Ogele, who is not going to help Payne or against an Edey. Or if you are waiting around for Sterling Manley (who we could have made our starting center!) and he turns you down in July, you are screwed. IMO this is evidence that Ben is actually learning and improving. Call me delusional, whatever.

If what you just described is "learning and improving" then where in the F did Ben even start from????? What you described is pretty common sense to even casual fans.

"Hmmm, if I wait too long I could miss out on a player", that's some rocket science right there.

 

[Big Dawg]

Interesting. Regarding #2, did you make that up yourself? Or is Ben somehow opposed to offering guys that could legitimately earn more playing time? And surely the last thing we'd want is to bring in someone who could compete with Payne, right? Pity the thought!

I'm not sure I see the brilliance in the anti-PJ Fleck approach: "you're kinda good and have potential, so I'll make sure to bring in people worse than you".

I like the Fleck approach of trying to out-recruit your roster, but that's just me.

How would you (or Ben) sell that? "Hey stud 5 in the portal. Come to MN (consectutive last place finishes in the BIG) and compete for PT with a guy is is projected to be a pretty good 5 in the BIG this coming season. BTW the 5 we have (Payne) is only a Soph". In my opinion, any decent 5 who would be able to compete with Payne would certainly not come to MN. Maybe a middle of the conference team, but not MN.

 

[USAF]

If you were a P6 starting 5 type player (in the portal), would you come to MN with a returning front court of Payne/Garcia/Ihnen/Fox/Betts? I wouldn't. The best we could expect would be a guy who would be willing to spell Payne for a few minutes per night on a team that is projected to be (my opinion) a weakling Wednesday/non NCAA tourney team. What does that leave you? Guys like Wilson. His HS recruiting profile looks better than TT's. If TT and Wilson were standing in the Barn right now and I had to take one and send the other packing, TT would be picking up that duffle bag and walking. Barring injuries Wilson is playing, at best, 4-5 min/gm. I don't care about the order as long as Ben picks up a minimum of 1 more G, preferably 2. Or a PG and a comboG/wing-shooter. I will be satisfied (not happy) with a G situation or Mitchell, Christie/Carrington/portal G. From the outside looking in, I would think Ben could sell at least one more G (playing time). Good luck Ben. I'm staying optimistic because that's all I have.

We're a weakling Wednesday team but the front court is so stacked this stiff is the best Johnson can do?

Lol

Gumby-like contortions continue.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I actually think this guy is a better fit for a back up big than Thompson. He should be able to body up a guy like Edey. Thompsons problem was that he wasn’t strong enough to defend in the paint and wasn’t quick enough to defend the perimeter.

And he thought he was a 3-point sniper.

 

[DarthGopher]

I am almost certain those who are saying ‘we need to see next season’ said the exact same thing this time last year.

Borrowing from the infamous words of Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, there is a chance, albeit a very, very small one, that God could miracle our asses up the standings next season.

 

[leib0039]

We're a weakling Wednesday team but the front court is so stacked this stiff is the best Johnson can do?

Lol

Gumby-like contortions continue.

THIS! People on here act like we have the best front court since Bird McHale and Parrish. Payne is good, but there were games he only could play 10-15 minutes between fouls, injury and ineffectiveness. There was plenty to offer, and we took the worst of the group right away.

At least no one should feel bad when Ben is fired, he's digging his own grave, and he's digging it DEEP

 

[eker0016]

If what you just described is "learning and improving" then where in the F did Ben even start from????? What you described is pretty common sense to even casual fans.

"Hmmm, if I wait too long I could miss out on a player", that's some rocket science right there.

Well he didn't have any head coaching experience, and got caught with his pants down in back to back years with massive roster deficiencies (post then guard). So he clearly was not starting from a great space. I'm not defending his hire as I wanted Craig Smith. But he's the coach we have and I want him to succeed, and I still have hope he can.

 

[MNVCGUY]

So, if I add Jack to the frontcourt list above that's 12 scholarships.
Who is the 13th? Didn't we have 4 available before Jack? Why only two left?
Who we forgetting?
Isn't the walkon from New Life at center also filling the backup center role?

There were 8 spots accounted for coming in - Payne, Garcia, Carrington, Fox, Ihnen, Betts, JOJ, and Christie.

That leaves room for 5 transfers - Mitchell, Wilson, and then 3 more. The math adds up as I had 2 place holders in that 12 mentioned. Right now we have 10 of 13 used, 3 available for transfers or walk-ons.

 

[MNVCGUY]

THIS! People on here act like we have the best front court since Bird McHale and Parrish. Payne is good, but there were games he only could play 10-15 minutes between fouls, injury and ineffectiveness. There was plenty to offer, and we took the worst of the group right away.

At least no one should feel bad when Ben is fired, he's digging his own grave, and he's digging it DEEP

Literally nobody is saying anything close to that. But we do have a front court of Payne, Garcia, JOJ, Betts, Ihnen, and Fox so there isn't a lot to offer a transfer in terms of guaranteed playing time which makes it unlikely that an impact front court guy is going to consider us as an option.

 

[scools12]

Literally nobody is saying anything close to that. But we do have a front court of Payne, Garcia, JOJ, Betts, Ihnen, and Fox so there isn't a lot to offer a transfer in terms of guaranteed playing time which makes it unlikely that an impact front court guy is going to consider us as an option.

Not in this thread but someone has posted the Gophers have the best or one of the best front courts in the conference can’t remember which but it was definitely said.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I'm shocked that the posters who don't like Ben Johnson are the most upset with this signing.

Look - maybe this season will turn out to be a disaster. Maybe Wilson can't play. Maybe Johnson will not sign any more players, or will sign two guards who can't play.

Maybe a giant meteor will head towards the Earth and some oil-well drillers will have to fly up on the space shuttle to set off a nuke and save the world.

But, we don't know any of that for sure until or unless it happens.

Ben Johnson is coaching for his job. he has to know that. Until he is fired, he has the right to make his own choices, and he will live with the consequences of his decisions. As do we all.

And 1 more thing: Let's say for the sake of argument that the Gophers show a lot of improvement next year. I will be happy. Because I am rooting for the program. I am not rooting against the Coach.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Not in this thread but someone has posted the Gophers have the best or one of the best front courts in the conference can’t remember which but it was definitely said.

Fair enough but even if someone said potentially best in the conference that still isn't saying the front court is Bird, McHale, Parrish level. Not even close.

We do have a chance to have a pretty solid front court, don't know how it will stack up with the rest of the conference but it should be decent as long as Fox and Ihnen are healthy and can contribute.

 

[cjbfbp]

Interesting. Regarding #2, did you make that up yourself? Or is Ben somehow opposed to offering guys that could legitimately earn more playing time? And surely the last thing we'd want is to bring in someone who could compete with Payne, right? Pity the thought!

I'm not sure I see the brilliance in the anti-PJ Fleck approach: "you're kinda good and have potential, so I'll make sure to bring in people worse than you".

I like the Fleck approach of trying to out-recruit your roster, but that's just me.

First of all, shove your snarky attitude up your ass, jerk off. I deal politely with gentlemen. The rest of the riff-raff who post here can go to hell.

I don't have a problem with Fleck's approach per se but I'm not the coach. I think that's something many of you fail to grasp. YOU'RE NOT IN CHARGE!!!!!!!!!!!

Ben is who he is and he appears to want to keep his primary players happy with playing time with the hope that they don't look elsewhere. That approach didn't seem to work with Battle, Cooper, and Henley but that doesn't mean he will throw that approach out the window with the players who remained.

The coach is entitled to do what he wants and recruit who he wants as long as he has the job. He bears the risks and rewards of his decisions. He's the coach we have now so he's the one I hope succeeds. If not, well, we'll start over again.

 

[PMWinSTP]

It seems very likely that Ben's future with the program is going to be dictated a lot by what happens next season.

So if he has a role he wants to fill, and he finds a transfer that he feels can fill that roll....should he spend time pursuing tons of other big men for a very limited back of the rotation spot, or should he take the player he feels fills the need and keep the focus on the much higher priority guards?

Stop making sense...

 

[Gopheritnow]

BJ could make the Elite 8 next year, and in late March GH would be full of: "Why can’t BJ make it to the Elite 7! Lol. NOTHING he does and or does not do will satisfy many of the posters here. I think I saw 90 some % of teams had portal entries, but BJ for some reason should have managed to avoid that fate?

 

[MNVCGUY]

BJ could make the Elite 8 next year, and in late March GH would be full of: "Why can’t BJ make it to the Elite 7! Lol. NOTHING he does and or does not do will satisfy many of the posters here. I think I saw 90 some % of teams had portal entries, but BJ for some reason should have managed to avoid that fate?

Not so sure I agree with that take. Right now everything Johnson does is wrong in the eyes of some posters but if he starts winning they will quickly come around.

There were posters that hated Fleck with a passion and bristled at everything he said and did. Those posters are much much harder to find now since the program has had success under Fleck.

 

[cjbfbp]

Right now everything Johnson does is wrong in the eyes of some posters but if he starts winning they will quickly come around.

I'm not so sure about that. Many of these people see Johnson as nothing but an incompetent affirmative action hire who got the job for those reasons over far more deserving people. For some of those, that resentment won't subside even with better success. There are also some who had other coaches they wanted hired for the position. Some of them won't let go of that very quickly either. I never get emotionally invested in any potential coach or recruit. I learned a long time ago that doesn't pay.

 

[BleedGopher]

BJ could make the Elite 8 next year, and in late March GH would be full of: "Why can’t BJ make it to the Elite 7! Lol. NOTHING he does and or does not do will satisfy many of the posters here. I think I saw 90 some % of teams had portal entries, but BJ for some reason should have managed to avoid that fate?

100% wrong. We’ve won 6 BT games in 2 years. Fans want and deserve better.

Go Gophers!!

 

[SamSquatch]

BJ could make the Elite 8 next year, and in late March GH would be full of: "Why can’t BJ make it to the Elite 7! Lol. NOTHING he does and or does not do will satisfy many of the posters here. I think I saw 90 some % of teams had portal entries, but BJ for some reason should have managed to avoid that fate?

This is over the top. The team he coaches has absolutely sucked while he has been the coach. In both talent and preparation/coaching. If he made the elite 8, the team will not have sucked and people will be happy with the coach.