Is This the End of College Football?

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MplsGopher said:
Medical doctors are not scientists. It is a fallacy to present the opinion of a medical doctor on a scientific topic as if they are a scientific expert.

Exactly the same as if you presented the opinion of an electrical engineer that designs circuit boards for a living as if they were an expert in quantum mechanics. Same fallacy
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Gigantic over generalization.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Gigantic over generalization.
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I think it's closer to what I said, than what you're implying. Of course, the real truth is a sliding scale, not binary. It always is. But to make an impactful point, sometimes a bold declaration is needed.


I stand by this: to present the opinion of a GP physician on the topic of advanced microbiology/virology, as an expert opinion simply because they went to med school, is absurd on its face.

The point is: you don't need to be an expert in virology to be a doctor. You only need to be an expert in which medicine to prescribe someone who is experiencing symptoms of a disease.

If the person also has additional scientific credentials, then perhaps their opinion is more justified as expert.
 

MplsGopher said:
I think it's closer to what I said, than what you say here.

Of course, the truth is a sliding scale, not binary.


But to present, and ask that common folk trust, the opinion of a GP physician, on the topic of advanced microbiology/virology, as an expert opinion, is absurd on its face.
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No, what you stated in that post is exactly that, a gigantic over generalization.
 

PMWinSTP said:
No, what you stated in that post is exactly that, a gigantic over generalization.
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The most basic fact I stated, is objectively correct. Medical doctors aren't scientists.

They do some study of some scientific topics during medical school. So?
 

MplsGopher said:
The most basic fact I stated, is objectively correct. Medical doctors aren't scientists.

They do some study of some scientific topics during medical school. So?
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The problem with @MplsGopher is that he imagines that "Science"="Settled Science". But science has morphed into Scientism, and now we have the Reproducibility Crisis

Big Government funding of science research has become heavily politicized and corrupt.

Go Gophers.
 




MplsGopher said:
Your example is an academic scientist, who also is a medical doctor. Most doctors aren’t that. Not an example of what I was talking about.
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Again, that post was a gigantic overstatement, and by your added qualifiers and pivot responses, you clearly know it was. There are many, many doctors who are scientists, and some scientists are doctors.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Again, that post was a gigantic overstatement, and by your added qualifiers and pivot responses, you clearly know it was. There are many, many doctors who are scientists, and some scientists are doctors.
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False. No doctor who isn’t also a PhD is a scientist. You didn’t know that MD-PhD is a specific thing, on its own, that I wasn’t referring to. Now you do.

No idea why you’re trying to make this a thing. Were you personally offended? Or on behalf of someone close to you? If so, I apologize. No offense was meant, nor should any be taken.

There’s nothing special about being a scientist. It doesn’t make you a good person or a smart person. Nor does being a medical doctor mean you aren’t those.

It just means you’re qualified to have an expert opinion on scientific topics. Doctors don’t.
 



MplsGopher said:
False. No doctor who isn’t also a PhD is a scientist. You didn’t know that MD-PhD is a specific thing, on its own, that I wasn’t referring to. Now you do.

No idea why you’re trying to make this a thing. Were you personally offended? Or on behalf of someone close to you? If so, I apologize. No offense was meant, nor should any be taken.

There’s nothing special about being a scientist. It doesn’t make you a good person or a smart person. Nor does being a medical doctor mean you aren’t those.

It just means you’re qualified to have an expert opinion on scientific topics. Doctors don’t.
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But doesn't having an MD mean your qualified to have an expert opinion on Medical topics? Epidemiology is both a medical and scientific feild, not just one or the other, so it would follow that both scientists and doctors would be able to give expert opinions. Just trying to understand your argument here.

Obviously, a doctor cannot comment on the veracity of a particular study or paper unless they have a background in research as well. The same could be said about an epidemiologist commenting on the serverity of a heart condition related to COVID. That is best left to a heart doctor who is familiar with the medical condition and it's treatments.
 

MplsGopher said:
False. No doctor who isn’t also a PhD is a scientist. You didn’t know that MD-PhD is a specific thing, on its own, that I wasn’t referring to. Now you do.

No idea why you’re trying to make this a thing. Were you personally offended? Or on behalf of someone close to you? If so, I apologize. No offense was meant, nor should any be taken.

There’s nothing special about being a scientist. It doesn’t make you a good person or a smart person. Nor does being a medical doctor mean you aren’t those.

It just means you’re qualified to have an expert opinion on scientific topics. Doctors don’t.
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Make it personal? Really? Wow you are thin-skinned, if this is considered personal. Any idea how silly that sounds? You again pivot here with a few more qualifiers. Bold part is just not true, Google failed you here.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Make it personal? Really? Wow you are thin-skinned, if this is considered personal. Any idea how silly that sounds? You again pivot here with a few more qualifiers. Bold part is just not true, Google failed you here.
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You're doubling down on your ignorance. That's what the internet is for, I guess.

MD-PhD is its own separate thing. Don't take it from me, see for yourself from the University of Minnesota: https://med.umn.edu/education-training/medical-scientist-training-program-mdphd

A regular MD does not follow any such track. They are not scientists. You have no argument.
 

Taji34 said:
But doesn't having an MD mean your qualified to have an expert opinion on Medical topics? Epidemiology is both a medical and scientific feild, not just one or the other, so it would follow that both scientists and doctors would be able to give expert opinions. Just trying to understand your argument here.

Obviously, a doctor cannot comment on the veracity of a particular study or paper unless they have a background in research as well. The same could be said about an epidemiologist commenting on the serverity of a heart condition related to COVID. That is best left to a heart doctor who is familiar with the medical condition and it's treatments.
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You're qualified to have an expert opinion on which approved medicines are best treatments for particular disease.

That's literally the job, and what is studied and practiced (along with the art of diagnosis).

Many on this board, but particularly PE, have pushed the fallacy of presenting some opinion by a physician on a scientific/research topic, as if they should have credibility. Patently false.
 



MplsGopher said:
You're doubling down on your ignorance. That's what the internet is for, I guess.

MD-PhD is its own separate thing. Don't take it from me, see for yourself from the University of Minnesota: https://med.umn.edu/education-training/medical-scientist-training-program-mdphd

A regular MD does not follow any such track. They are not scientists. You have no argument.
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You have brought all this stuff up in subsequent responses to try to pivot from, and heavily qualify your post that I originally responded to so you can keep up your own personal belief/facade that you are all knowing. That post was a gigantic over generalization.
 

PMWinSTP said:
You have brought all this stuff up in subsequent responses to try to pivot from, and heavily qualify your post that I originally responded to so you can keep up your own personal belief/facade that you are all knowing. That post was a gigantic over generalization.
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Tripling down on your ignorance. I’ve proven that what I said is correct.

“doctors” just means regular MDs. You brought up a tangential technicality (and a very small percentage of folks at that) that doesn’t disprove what I said.


If it would make you feel better, I’m happy to clarify that I’m more than happy to accept the opinion of any MD-PhD as an expert in their scientific area of expertise as an expert opinion.

But it won’t. You think you have a point, and you certainly have an axe to grind, for some reason you won’t disclose.


And I never said or implied I was all-knowing. Why such a silly statement? The things I don’t know dwarf the things I think I know, considerably, as is with almost all people.
 

GoldenRodents said:
Herd immunity has already happened in Sweden, we should send the boys over there to play football.

Yes a few thousand people died due to inadequate nursing home protections. A tiny number of young people died.

Check your facts, don't follow the herd. They are ignorant, gullible and cowardly.
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You look ridiculous.

www.yahoo.com

Sweden has admitted its coronavirus immunity predictions were wrong as cases soar across the country

Sweden's chief epidemiologist has admitted that the country is experiencing a second wave of coronavirus as cases and deaths from the disease surge.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
 

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PoockItInfor6 said:
Not that it’s great, but Sweden still is in the bottom 1/3 of cases per million citizens in Europe...
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Yes the Nordic countries are on the later end of this wave, compared to the surrounding countries Sweden isn't doing that great:

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I'm not a team apocalypse/lockdown advocate by any means, GRs attacks and claims have been ridiculous.
 

RahSkiUMah said:
Yes the Nordic countries are on the later end of this wave, compared to the surrounding countries Sweden isn't doing that great:

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I'm not a team apocalypse/lockdown advocate by any means, GRs attacks and claims have been ridiculous.
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I didn’t go back through the thread, but I certainly thought numbers across the globe wouldn’t be quite where they are at today...
 



I think I can help with the whole Pam Pam thing....
 

I have a question for the group about experts. If I say take college courses, do thousands of hours of research on my own, interview people, shadow people, and make my life about researching something does that make me an expert. Or do I only get an expert label if I have the degree?
 

alaska said:
I have a question for the group about experts. If I say take college courses, do thousands of hours of research on my own, interview people, shadow people, and make my life about researching something does that make me an expert. Or do I only get an expert label if I have the degree?
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You can use the same argument to challenge any credential.

The simple reality of "if you're going to put that much effort into it, why wouldn't you just get the credential then?" means we don't really need to entertain this hypothetical.
 

MplsGopher said:
You can use the same argument to challenge any credential.

The simple reality of "if you're going to put that much effort into it, why wouldn't you just get the credential then?" means we don't really need to entertain this hypothetical.
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I have a great example. My wife has made it her life's duty to learn about food and how it heals the body. When we go to the doctor they ask her questions. She has no inspiration to get some degree for nutrition or whatever it is they have. But I will say she knows more about food and its healing powers than most people in this country...but doesn't have a degree....sooo where do we categorize her opinion and expertise?

Now I dont even care if you respond, its just some thoughts to throw out there, that the power of expertise is not if you have a degree, its the amount of time you put into finding out things.
 

alaska said:
I have a great example. My wife has made it her life's duty to learn about food and how it heals the body. When we go to the doctor they ask her questions. She has no inspiration to get some degree for nutrition or whatever it is they have. But I will say she knows more about food and its healing powers than most people in this country...but doesn't have a degree....sooo where do we categorize her opinion and expertise?

Now I dont even care if you respond, its just some thoughts to throw out there, that the power of expertise is not if you have a degree, its the amount of time you put into finding out things.
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But if you have the degree, then you've spent the necessary amount of time and effort to become an expert.

In other words, you don't need to wonder if someone with the degree is an expert. They are.

Hence why we usually only deal with people who've taken that time and effort to get the credential.
 

alaska said:
I have a great example. My wife has made it her life's duty to learn about food and how it heals the body. When we go to the doctor they ask her questions. She has no inspiration to get some degree for nutrition or whatever it is they have. But I will say she knows more about food and its healing powers than most people in this country...but doesn't have a degree....sooo where do we categorize her opinion and expertise?

Now I dont even care if you respond, its just some thoughts to throw out there, that the power of expertise is not if you have a degree, its the amount of time you put into finding out things.
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It really boils down to where you are getting your knowledge and how it's been tested.

Went to a University and got a 4 year degree or higher? Cool, I know your information came from a reputable source and your retention and interpretation of that knowledge was thoroughly tested.

Went to a trade school and did an apprenticeship? Cool, you were taught and tested by an expert and so I trust your knowledge.

Have no formal training, but have worked in your industry for 5+ years? Cool, your knowledge has been acquired and tested thoroughly in the real world, otherwise you wouldn't still have a job.

Not working in that field, no degree, but self taught? It gets dicey here. I have no idea where you learned you information from, and if your knowledge on the matter has been thoroughly tested. My Girlfriends dad is a huge american history buff and knows quite a bit more than a regular person. He's been doing self learning for decades now, but I wouldn't call him an expert because I have no idea where his information is from. It could be from a well known book or documentary, or something he found once somewhere online from an unknown source.
 


alaska said:
I have a question for the group about experts. If I say take college courses, do thousands of hours of research on my own, interview people, shadow people, and make my life about researching something does that make me an expert. Or do I only get an expert label if I have the degree?
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You're an expert if you are a guest on a TV talk show answering some questions from a talking head while a picture of the city you're currently located in is superimposed onto the background...or you're on a grainy stream that keeps cutting out while you stare into your laptop camera with the best part of your house showing in the background.
 

This thread aged like unrefrigerated cheese. Good one, GWG.
 

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