Is Fleck’s agent actively looking for other coaching jobs?


MGGopher

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Wtf are you even talking about?
I know lol. I was going to respond, but man it's just like spitting into the wind with some people. PJ isn't perfect. He makes mistakes. The players make mistakes too. But the team unquestionably has more talent and depth almost across the board than they did when he took over. Maybe not as much as some had hoped for or predicted (myself included), but there's been progress. Like others, I hope PJ takes a hard look at his approach to game theory and works hard to improve both offense and STs. But any talk of canning him or hoping he leaves is ludicrous IMO.
 


Some guy

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Yes. And right about the time of the Space Race. And each had an equal effect on Gopher football.
You don’t think black players playing at SEC schools, notre dame, Texas, etc en masse in the 1970s had an impact on programs like Michigan state, Pitt, and Minnesota who were winning national championships with rosters comprised of black players in the 60s

I disagree
 
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Gophers_4life

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Mason was out after he openly flirted with OSU - even Minnesota has enough pride to not accept that. The meltdown vs. TT sealed the deal but the reality was that Mason was NEVER given the tools that PJ was given. Also, and this is huge in my opinion - because of Mason, Minnesota was getting weekly mentioned during NFL broadcasts as the place for RBs with Barber, Maroney, and Gary Russell. We had a true identity that Mason could have capitalized on IF he actually cared about recruiting or had more money for assistants proficient at it. For me, that was the sin of Brewster - he wanted to install the spread offense to fix the problem that we didn't have - our problem was on defense under Mason. As a result, we lost our identity as a program which is really our only chance to ever win a title. I take Northwestern's early adoption of the spread as their one and only chance to actually compete. Once we settle for 'out recruiting, coaching up, and running the same scheme as everyone else but we will do it better' - we will never win anything meaningful. For me, that is the problem with PJ - there is nothing unique other than his cult of personality and thus far, they is not good enough to move the Gophers to the next level and the excuses are all used up. These are his guys and next year is likely to be a giant step backwards - not forwards.
Agree with a lot of the spirit of your post -- but disagree that the spread offense can be an elixir for programs that can't "out recruit" as a way to still win.

Mike Leach has tried to make it work at three different "little brother" schools, and has very few major seasons to show for it.
 


FanSinceTheFifties

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You don’t think black players playing at SEC schools, notre dame, Texas, etc en masse in the 1970s had an impact on programs like Michigan state, Pitt, and Minnesota who were winning national championships with rosters comprised of black players in the 60s

I disagree
If so, why was Minnesota most severely impacted?
 


Gophers_4life

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Right about when the South desegragated
This is what it is. Plain truth.

Sorry, if you don't like it.


Gopher football won national titles because they allowed Blacks to play on the team, before the South allowed it.

Sorry if you don't like that, but that's the plain honest truth.
 

btowngopher

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Mason was out after he openly flirted with OSU - even Minnesota has enough pride to not accept that. The meltdown vs. TT sealed the deal but the reality was that Mason was NEVER given the tools that PJ was given. Also, and this is huge in my opinion - because of Mason, Minnesota was getting weekly mentioned during NFL broadcasts as the place for RBs with Barber, Maroney, and Gary Russell. We had a true identity that Mason could have capitalized on IF he actually cared about recruiting or had more money for assistants proficient at it. For me, that was the sin of Brewster - he wanted to install the spread offense to fix the problem that we didn't have - our problem was on defense under Mason. As a result, we lost our identity as a program which is really our only chance to ever win a title. I take Northwestern's early adoption of the spread as their one and only chance to actually compete. Once we settle for 'out recruiting, coaching up, and running the same scheme as everyone else but we will do it better' - we will never win anything meaningful. For me, that is the problem with PJ - there is nothing unique other than his cult of personality and thus far, they is not good enough to move the Gophers to the next level and the excuses are all used up. These are his guys and next year is likely to be a giant step backwards - not forwards.
It looked like we were on track with mirroring elements of Iowa and Wisconsin, but it appeared we’d have the added advantage of a superior pass game. Unfortunately that advantage hasn’t sustained.
 



FanSinceTheFifties

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Because MN, Michigan state, and Pitt and a select few others had pick of the litter for a pool of recruits. And after everyone integrated they no longer got as many of them
And Iowa and Wisconsin e.g. didn't enjoy that advantage? And they started to overtake MN at that time why? What changed about MN that didn't hurt the rest of the Big ten?
 

Some guy

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And Iowa and Wisconsin e.g. didn't enjoy that advantage? And they started to overtake MN at that time why? What changed about MN that didn't hurt the rest of the Big ten?
Wisconsin sucked until the 90s and didn’t overtake Mn then. They don’t overtake MN at this time

Iowa won a national title in 1958 and 1960 per various selectors


It’s fine if you don’t know what you’re talking about but quit acting like you do.
 

FanSinceTheFifties

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Wisconsin sucked until the 90s and didn’t overtake Mn then. They don’t overtake MN at this time

Iowa won a national title in 1958 and 1960 per various selectors


It’s fine if you don’t know what you’re talking about but quit acting like you do.
Ok. Thank you for the suggestion. Be well.
 




Bayfieldgopher

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Mason was out after he openly flirted with OSU - even Minnesota has enough pride to not accept that. The meltdown vs. TT sealed the deal but the reality was that Mason was NEVER given the tools that PJ was given. Also, and this is huge in my opinion - because of Mason, Minnesota was getting weekly mentioned during NFL broadcasts as the place for RBs with Barber, Maroney, and Gary Russell. We had a true identity that Mason could have capitalized on IF he actually cared about recruiting or had more money for assistants proficient at it. For me, that was the sin of Brewster - he wanted to install the spread offense to fix the problem that we didn't have - our problem was on defense under Mason. As a result, we lost our identity as a program which is really our only chance to ever win a title. I take Northwestern's early adoption of the spread as their one and only chance to actually compete. Once we settle for 'out recruiting, coaching up, and running the same scheme as everyone else but we will do it better' - we will never win anything meaningful. For me, that is the problem with PJ - there is nothing unique other than his cult of personality and thus far, they is not good enough to move the Gophers to the next level and the excuses are all used up. These are his guys and next year is likely to be a giant step backwards - not forwards.
After 10 years, Mase went on record by saying the program was "rebuilding"! My thought was that was all on him. No excuse for that, especially on the D side.

My concern is that PJ may be in the same position as his past three classes and the 23 group looks underwhelming. Just a couple of 4 star recruits in three classes!! Plus the only one in the 21-22 groups to start is Walley then AK by default and a bit of Brockington. The 20 class is concerning as well as only Ersery, Linbenberg, JLR, Joyner, Striggow, and Jackson have earned meaningful minutes. In comparison OSU has a good number of underclass starters and their 2 deep is full of them. Probably not a fair comparison but still...........

This was the year to make hay and PJ burned down the barn. Maybe we can beat Becky and get a moral victory and then look forward to a decent bowl game.

PJ has no option but to rely heavily on the portal to fix the bleeding. And probably the next couple of years unless his recruiting can somehow improve.
 

Denver_Gopher

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Whether anyone likes it or not, it is probably the right time for him to move on IF he wants to be at a big time school in the future. He's 42, been at MN for six years, and has probably maxed out what he can do here. The issue he has in the immediate future is the schedule in 2023. Michigan, Ohio State, at Iowa, and at North Carolina. The Gophers could play well in all four games and easily lose. Not to mention any other game on the schedule in the Big Ten. The losses in the senior class are not big in numbers but are high in impact. Fleck could find himself having to rebuild his own program. I am not sure that he would want to do that or should do that to move up the ladder. He would be better off rebuilding another program that might have a higher ceiling. Especially considering that USC and possibly UCLA coming into the league. Building up a second program will bring credibility and possibly get him into an "elite" program by the time he is fifty. Arizona State and Colorado will be able to climb the ladder faster in the new Pac 12. There will b8am

And Iowa and Wisconsin e.g. didn't enjoy that advantage? And they started to overtake MN at that time why? What changed about MN that didn't hurt the rest of the Big ten?
The Vikings
 

dpodoll68

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I don't get the pessimism about next year. Two tough games for sure, but after that there isn't one team to fear. Last year at this time we thought MSU would be a tough game in 2022.
- Two games in which we have literally no shot (@OSU, Mich)
- One game in which we have almost no shot (@UNC)
- One game in which we have little shot against a rival we haven't beaten since the Obama administration (@IA)

Now, if you assume we'll go 0-4 in those games (I certainly do), that leaves 8 others. Even supposing we're favored in all 8 of them (no sure thing), given our success rate as favorites this year we'll be lucky to win 6.

Striving to eke out 6 wins in year 7 under Fleck - I know that's what I was hoping for when I stood in Tampa and watched us dismantle a top-10 SEC team almost 3 years ago.
 

beatles

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- Two games in which we have literally no shot (@OSU, Mich)
- One game in which we have almost no shot (@UNC)
- One game in which we have little shot against a rival we haven't beaten since the Obama administration (@IA)

Now, if you assume we'll go 0-4 in those games (I certainly do), that leaves 8 others. Even supposing we're favored in all 8 of them (no sure thing), given our success rate as favorites this year we'll be lucky to win 6.

Striving to eke out 6 wins in year 7 under Fleck - I know that's what I was hoping for when I stood in Tampa and watched us dismantle a top-10 SEC team almost 3 years ago.
Way too many assumptions in your post to take it seriously. I don’t accept we’ll be 0-4 in those games or that we’ll be fighting for a 6th or 7th win overall. And if that happens then it’s just one year. Look back at UW under Alvarez in the nineties. One or two average years after ‘93 but then came ‘99 and ‘00. Relax and enjoy the Fleck years. We’re damn lucky he’s here.
 



Some guy

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- Two games in which we have literally no shot (@OSU, Mich)
- One game in which we have almost no shot (@UNC)
- One game in which we have little shot against a rival we haven't beaten since the Obama administration (@IA)

Now, if you assume we'll go 0-4 in those games (I certainly do), that leaves 8 others. Even supposing we're favored in all 8 of them (no sure thing), given our success rate as favorites this year we'll be lucky to win 6.

Striving to eke out 6 wins in year 7 under Fleck - I know that's what I was hoping for when I stood in Tampa and watched us dismantle a top-10 SEC team almost 3 years ago.
Lol
 

dpodoll68

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Way too many assumptions in your post to take it seriously. I don’t accept we’ll be 0-4 in those games or that we’ll be fighting for a 6th or 7th win overall. And if that happens then it’s just one year. Look back at UW under Alvarez in the nineties. One or two average years after ‘93 but then came ‘99 and ‘00. Relax and enjoy the Fleck years. We’re damn lucky he’s here.
Feel free to bookmark it and talk to me a year from now.

Bringing up Alvarez is hilarious. I'd be giving Fleck a lot more leeway if he had a conference championship, a Rose Bowl win, hell even a division championship by now.
 

csom_1991

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Agree with a lot of the spirit of your post -- but disagree that the spread offense can be an elixir for programs that can't "out recruit" as a way to still win.

Mike Leach has tried to make it work at three different "little brother" schools, and has very few major seasons to show for it.
Sorry, I may have been unclear. I don't think the spread is the elixir - especially after it has been around for years. Just like now implementing RPO is not the same as if you were the first time to implement it. My comment is that Brewster thought this was a solution - but our offense was already strong, it was our D that was the problem. But, I think he was likely influenced by Northwestern as when they first did the spread (one of the early adopters), they were able to win B1G titles with teams made up of margin talent. The lesson for me was not that the spread was the solution - but that you need to do something unique on offense to be effective if you are not in the same league as OSU, Michigan, Alabama, etc talent-wise.

With Mason's run offense, we had that and could recruit RBs based on this reputation. Right now under PJ, we are back to 'we will do the same thing as everyone else but just do it better' - and for me, that will never get us over the hump because the competition in the Big Ten is simply too much. Adding in USC just adds one additional team that will also have better talent, etc. I assume the Big Ten will drop divisions in favor of 'top 2 teams meet for the title' approach - which will forever doom our hopes of a Rose Bowl. The chances that we finish better than (assuming OSU is top team) Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin, Iowa, USC + MSU/UCLA in a season where we don't do anything unique on offense is basically zero in my book.

Our last chance to really make that leap was THIS year of the lightning in a bottle year of 2019. But even for 2019, we could not beat Wisconsin or Iowa and we didn't have to play the top of the league in Michigan or OSU. Going forward, we likely will in addition to USC/UCLA/Michigan state and other than Wisconsin and Iowa possibly being worst, the talent gap with OSU/Michigan/USC with the rest of the Big Ten has only grown.
 

Gophers_4life

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Way too many assumptions in your post to take it seriously. I don’t accept we’ll be 0-4 in those games or that we’ll be fighting for a 6th or 7th win overall. And if that happens then it’s just one year. Look back at UW under Alvarez in the nineties. One or two average years after ‘93 but then came ‘99 and ‘00. Relax and enjoy the Fleck years. We’re damn lucky he’s here.
Couldn't your exact post have been said about Kill?

Say Kill never has health problems. You would've been fine if he had never left and was still the coach here to this day?

I think most fans (not all, fine) think Fleck was an upgrade hire at coach.


Why suddenly is it absolutely, physically impossible that the U could ever hire a coach, ever again, that is an upgrade over Fleck??
 

Gophers_4life

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Sorry, I may have been unclear. I don't think the spread is the elixir - especially after it has been around for years. Just like now implementing RPO is not the same as if you were the first time to implement it. My comment is that Brewster thought this was a solution - but our offense was already strong, it was our D that was the problem. But, I think he was likely influenced by Northwestern as when they first did the spread (one of the early adopters), they were able to win B1G titles with teams made up of margin talent. The lesson for me was not that the spread was the solution - but that you need to do something unique on offense to be effective if you are not in the same league as OSU, Michigan, Alabama, etc talent-wise.

With Mason's run offense, we had that and could recruit RBs based on this reputation. Right now under PJ, we are back to 'we will do the same thing as everyone else but just do it better' - and for me, that will never get us over the hump because the competition in the Big Ten is simply too much. Adding in USC just adds one additional team that will also have better talent, etc. I assume the Big Ten will drop divisions in favor of 'top 2 teams meet for the title' approach - which will forever doom our hopes of a Rose Bowl. The chances that we finish better than (assuming OSU is top team) Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin, Iowa, USC + MSU/UCLA in a season where we don't do anything unique on offense is basically zero in my book.

Our last chance to really make that leap was THIS year of the lightning in a bottle year of 2019. But even for 2019, we could not beat Wisconsin or Iowa and we didn't have to play the top of the league in Michigan or OSU. Going forward, we likely will in addition to USC/UCLA/Michigan state and other than Wisconsin and Iowa possibly being worst, the talent gap with OSU/Michigan/USC with the rest of the Big Ten has only grown.
Thanks for clarifying, great post.

I think they'll figure out how to get the Rose Bowl to be part of the new 12 team playoff format. Thinking it will have to always be a quarter-final game?

So, I do think we can make the playoff as a double-digit seed, every now and then, and if we can pull off a win in that first round, then that next round would be at the Rose Bowl potentially. We'll see how it all works out ...


I'm not sure what Brewster was thinking or where he got his ideology on offense from. I know he spent a lot of years coaching with Mack Brown (at UNC and then a few at Texas), so maybe that was it. But then he was in the NFL for a few years before coming to the U. Anyway, always a TE coach.

Also not really sure what Joel was thinking there .... oh well.
 

mngolf

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Couldn't your exact post have been said about Kill?

Say Kill never has health problems. You would've been fine if he had never left and was still the coach here to this day?

I think most fans (not all, fine) think Fleck was an upgrade hire at coach.


Why suddenly is it absolutely, physically impossible that the U could ever hire a coach, ever again, that is an upgrade over Fleck??
I think finding a replacement for Kill was much easier than finding a replacement for Fleck would be. The program is a little higher now but still has the same drawbacks. So who do you think we could get that is better? Most names people throw out here are just names, not showing any discernable difference.
 

Gophers_4life

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I think finding a replacement for Kill was much easier than finding a replacement for Fleck would be. The program is a little higher now but still has the same drawbacks. So who do you think we could get that is better? Most names people throw out here are just names, not showing any discernable difference.
Can't I point that same accusation right back at you for your first sentence?

I think finding a replacement for Kill was much easier than finding a replacement for Fleck would be.

Why? Most people just throw this out there, with zero proof or explanation.
 

Gophers_4life

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As to your actual question (who), that was already posed as a whole separate thread. I will give the same answer here as I did there:

I have no idea. I have no names for you. I haven't even really looked.

AND that does not disprove that it is possible to hire a coach that would be an upgrade over Fleck ...
 

Some guy

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Can't I point that same accusation right back at you for your first sentence?

I think finding a replacement for Kill was much easier than finding a replacement for Fleck would be.

Why? Most people just throw this out there, with zero proof or explanation.
there is no proof or explanation either way, it’s an opinion question.

Here is a question
Who are 20 coaches you think would be an upgrade over fleck?
And then I can decide if I think they’d make a jump here.

For instance we already established you don’t think Kansas coach or Iowa state coach would be upgrades.
 


Gophers_4life

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The question is not who are coaches that would be better than Fleck.

The real question is: who are coaches that we could hire here in the next couple years that would be better than Fleck.


No idea. I just know that that question is not preposterous and not impossible.
 




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