Is Fleck’s agent actively looking for other coaching jobs?

Gophers_4life

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You’re right. If the team next year has the worst record it’s had since 2017 next year people will be upset.
Nuance and context matters.

I've moved the goalposts a bit. Fine. Slap my wrists. I admit it.


New goalposts = lose to Wisconsin on Sat + (2022 bowl game is absolutely meaningless) + lose to Iowa in 2023 + lose to Wisc in 2023 + not bowl eligible in 2023.


I've marked my claim. My stake is in the ground. It's clear.


He goes -- and he should!
 

Some guy

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Nuance and context matters.

I've moved the goalposts a bit. Fine. Slap my wrists. I admit it.


New goalposts = lose to Wisconsin on Sat + (2022 bowl game is absolutely meaningless) + lose to Iowa in 2023 + lose to Wisc in 2023 + not bowl eligible in 2023.


I've marked my claim. My stake is in the ground. It's clear.


He goes -- and he should!
Baring a scandal there is a 0% chance he is gone next year. He very much could put himself in a make or break 2024
 

Gophers_4life

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You could easily be correct. If so, kudos, I lost.

Hopefully, we'll never find out because we win on Sat!

Go Gophers!!
 


Go Gophs

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Your analysis lacks all context.

1.) Fleck walked into a situation with a new stadium, new facilities, and a supportive AD including money for his staff.
2.) The prior coach was not fired due to the performance of the team on the field - the immediate year prior, they went 9-4
3.) When Fleck took over, the Gophers had re-established a bowl tradition - 5 bowls in the prior 5 seasons

Now, compare that to Glen Mason
1.) He needed to schedule recruiting trips around tractor pulls and monster truck shows at a stadium in no way connected to the campus with horrible attendance
2.) The prior coach had just gone 4-7 and was fired for the product on the field and averaged a shade over 3 wins a year during the prior 5 seasons.
3.) The Gophers had not gone bowling the prior decade

Now, I am not saying that Mason was God's gift to coaching - BUT - PJ's results are by no means astonishing given the situation he walked into. Off the top of my head, he had the following future NFL players on the squad:

Blake Cashman
TJ
Santoso
Carter Coughlin
Kamal Martin

This is far from a bare cupboard that Mason and the other coaches walked into with way less AD support etc.

I think Gopher fans are scared to make a coaching move because of the utterly moronic move to hire Tim Brewster. This is not even hiring one of the high flying coordinators or up and coming coaches - this was a completely reach move for a guy I think no one even knew was interviewing. For PJ, he is supposed to be a great recruiter and motivator - well, I question both given the drop off in talent after MO and for the entire receiver core as well as our lack of any halftime adjustment where the team actually plays better in the 2nd half.

Now, I am not saying that we need to fire PJ - but, we need to bring some realism to what would likely come next (not a Brewster 2.0 situation) as well as judge his performance based on the situation he was handed.
I can agree with alot of your post.

Honestly, I still feel like Glen Mason was a pretty good coach and if we are being honest, he is the one that turned Gopher football around from being a terrible doormat to a respectable Big Ten program.

I feel like at the time Fleck was one of the better up and coming coaching candidates out there, so I don't agree with you on that part.

What boggles my mind is the fact that at Western Michigan, Fleck was seen as a pretty darn good recruiter. Since he got here, he has been at the best average, but mostly, not good.
This and his in game coaching are his two biggest downfalls IMO.

Still think it's foolish to move on from him. And if I am being honest, I didn't like it when they fired Glen Mason either. Maybe it was just growing up watching some terrible Gopher football in the 80's that make me appreciate these guys more than most.
 


Tucker32

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What has he been then? Gophers are historically a 4-6 win team. I'm not talking back before cars were invented.
Really? That's funny. He has had the advantage of playing in the Big Ten West and having 12-game seasons. Not that hard to figure out.
 

short ornery norwegian

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at WMU, Fleck had to recruit better athletes than other MAC teams.

at MN, Fleck has to try and recruit athletes who are equal to or better than other B1G teams.

It's one thing to out-recruit Ohio U, Bowling Green and Kent State.

It's an entirely different challenge to recruit with WI, IA, Purdue, MSU, etc.

and I'm not even talking about Mich and OSU.

it's like a baseball player going from Triple-A to the Major Leagues. You're probably not going to bat for as high an average when you're facing better competition.
 

Go Gophs

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Really? That's funny. I get a couple of you love PJ so much, but he really hasn't done much other than 2019, and even then only beat one good team in PSU. He has had the advantage of playing in the Big Ten West and having 12 game seasons. Not that hard to figure out.
I don't love him. I just feel like this place is never going to be a program that averages 10 wins a year. I get it, we haven't done what Iowa and Wisky have done. It makes me mad too. I just don't see anyone doing any better than Fleck or Mason until we start breaking the same rules all the rest of them do.

And just for arguments sake, 2019 DID happen. Mason had a 10-win year, then you have to go back a long long ways to find anything close to those 2 seasons. Does every coach we hire here suck?
 

Some guy

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I don't love him. I just feel like this place is never going to be a program that averages 10 wins a year. I get it, we haven't done what Iowa and Wisky have done. It makes me mad too. I just don't see anyone doing any better than Fleck or Mason until we start breaking the same rules all the rest of them do.

And just for arguments sake, 2019 DID happen. Mason had a 10-win year, then you have to go back a long long ways to find anything close to those 2 seasons. Does every coach we hire here suck?
Iowa and Wisconsin don’t average 10 wins
 



3399

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I certainly hope he’s been working behind the scenes to find a good landing spot as soon as possible.
Whether anyone likes it or not, it is probably the right time for him to move on IF he wants to be at a big time school in the future. He's 42, been at MN for six years, and has probably maxed out what he can do here. The issue he has in the immediate future is the schedule in 2023. Michigan, Ohio State, at Iowa, and at North Carolina. The Gophers could play well in all four games and easily lose. Not to mention any other game on the schedule in the Big Ten. The losses in the senior class are not big in numbers but are high in impact. Fleck could find himself having to rebuild his own program. I am not sure that he would want to do that or should do that to move up the ladder. He would be better off rebuilding another program that might have a higher ceiling. Especially considering that USC and possibly UCLA coming into the league. Building up a second program will bring credibility and possibly get him into an "elite" program by the time he is fifty. Arizona State and Colorado will be able to climb the ladder faster in the new Pac 12. There will be other openings.
 

tjgopher

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Really? That's funny. He has had the advantage of playing in the Big Ten West and having 12-game seasons. Not that hard to figure out.

12-game seasons have been around for two decades, including almost the entire tenure of Mason and all of Kill/Claeys/Fleck.

What is new, is a 9-game Big Ten schedule. Mason got a cupcake in that spot.
 

ecoperson

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Some of you have exceptionally short term memories. Makes me think that you were born this millenium or maybe even this decade. Fleck has recruited far higher ranked players on average than any coach since Holtz. Fleck has also won at a much higher and more consistent basis than any coach since then.
 

FanSinceTheFifties

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Taken a team that has been throughout it's history a roughly 4-8 team and gotten it to a point when people are pissed off about an 8-4 season.

Here's the deal. Gopher football has never been good, or even average and now they are at worst average. Go ahead and get rid of him and see where we land. My guess back to 4-8, 5-7 years hoping for 6-6 to get into a bowl of any sort.
Gopher football was prominent prior to 1961. It began a slide and by 1969 it had begun to be what you see now.
 



Bayfieldgopher

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Two years in a row we throw only more than the academies. PJ has issues.
PJ @ WMU threw the rock around 30 x per game or 40% of the time. Of course he had Zach Terrell who was an excellent passer and runner. Now we are one dimensional.

With that offensive philosophy, who would want him along with his brand?
 

Dupreefor3

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I can agree with alot of your post.

Honestly, I still feel like Glen Mason was a pretty good coach and if we are being honest, he is the one that turned Gopher football around from being a terrible doormat to a respectable Big Ten program.

I feel like at the time Fleck was one of the better up and coming coaching candidates out there, so I don't agree with you on that part.

What boggles my mind is the fact that at Western Michigan, Fleck was seen as a pretty darn good recruiter. Since he got here, he has been at the best average, but mostly, not good.
This and his in game coaching are his two biggest downfalls IMO.

Still think it's foolish to move on from him. And if I am being honest, I didn't like it when they fired Glen Mason either. Maybe it was just growing up watching some terrible Gopher football in the 80's that make me appreciate these guys more than most.
Fleck brought in the number one recruiting class in the MAC every year. His last class had he not left would have included guys like JMS, CrAB, Morgan and a couple other guys who contributed here as well. However, it's a completely diffeent game in this league, I never thought he would be able to out recruit Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State at Minnesota, just not going to happen, same with Nebby, UCLA and USC. People want top 25 classes, but if you look at the rankings. Bama, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, Florida, A&M FSU, Miami, Clemson, Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Oregon, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State, you can guarentee a spot in the top 25 for those 17 schools every year. Than you have schools like Tennessee, Ole Miss, Arkansas, Nebraska, UCLA that are semi regular on those lists who make it more often than not, along with the likes MIssissippi State and South Carolina, that's 24 teams that you can take to the bank that will either always or more often than not make the top 25 in composite class rankings, so you ave to develop and properly deploy talent to be successful here. Our booster pool sucks, our NIL collective is mediocre at best, there isn't a large talent pool of high school players here and as far as the hot talent spots in the Midwest our competitors have a location advantage and the reason the SEC cleans up in these rankings is most of the high school talent is in the Sun Belt, it's easier to convince a kid to only go three hours to get away than to come to the North
 


Some guy

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12-game seasons have been around for two decades, including almost the entire tenure of Mason and all of Kill/Claeys/Fleck.

What is new, is a 9-game Big Ten schedule. Mason got a cupcake in that spot.
The easiest time to be a big ten head coach was when it was an 11 team conference (not conference title game) with a 8 game conference schedule and 12 game schedule.

There was a small set of years where you could win the conference with two losses by being in a big tie where you could lose to one of the top teams and avoid the others.
At the very same time you could go 2-6 in conference and still make a bowl.

Before there was penn state it was hard to avoid people.
Before there were 12 games you didn’t have an easy of a time getting to 6 wins.
After Nebraska was added even if you had a great 12 games you still had to go beat one of the top teams in the conference again…either for a second time or the first time (because you lost to them or avoided them)

The sweet spot was 2000-2010 and it isn’t even close. 2000-2010 was the easiest time to be a big ten coach at any program.
From 2000-2010

9 of the 11 big ten programs won a share of a title.
RIP MINNESOTA AND INDIANA
(2000) 3 teams did it with 2 losses.
(2001) Illinois did it while losing to the number 2 team in the conference (would’ve had to had a Michigan rematch now to win)
(2002) undefeated co champs who didn’t have to play each other
(2003) I would say Michigan was a true legitimate champ…Minnesota was a 4th quarter away from making it 10/11 with titles by forcing a 4 way tie where Minnesota would’ve been 1-1 vs the top 5 in the conference
(2004) two teams tie with 1 loss, Iowa gets to claim a conference title despite losing the head to head with the team they tied with, no rematch for either side
(2005) two teams tie with 1 loss, Ohio state gets to claim a conference title even though they lost head to head with the same team they tied with…no rematch for either of the two
(2006) Ohio state wins the title, unbeaten, doesn’t have to play 1 loss wisconsin
(2007) Ohio state wins the conference, they are 1-1 against the top 3. No rematches
(2008) penn state and Ohio state tie. Penn state beat them head to head. Ohio state doesn’t have to play Iowa…the team that gave penn state their one loss
(2009) Ohio state wins title, beat 2nd place Iowa in OT, no rematch
(2010) wisconsin Michigan state share title despite Wisconsin losing head to head. No rematch


2001 - 3-5 Michigan state has a 7 win season
2002 - 3-5 Minnesota has an 8 win season AND 2-6 wisconsin has an 8 win season due to getting an extra game for playing @Hawaii
2004 - 3-5 Minnesota has a 7 win season
2006 - 3-5 Minnesota has a 6 win season AND 2-6 Iowa has a 6 win season (I guess they stuck with Ferentz through that 2-6 big ten season)
2007 - 3-5 Purdue wins 8, 3-5 Indiana wins 7, 3-5 Michigan state wins 7, 3-5 northwestern wins 6.
2008 - 3-5 Minnesota and Wisconsin both win 7
2009 - 3-5 Minnesota wins 6
2010 - 3-5 Michigan and northwestern both win 7, 1-7 Indiana wins 5



Someone from the pac or the big 12 should look at that model and realize that it would help them get bids in a 12 team playoff
 
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PMWinSTP

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PJ @ WMU threw the rock around 30 x per game or 40% of the time. Of course he had Zach Terrell who was an excellent passer and runner. Now we are one dimensional.

With that offensive philosophy, who would want him along with his brand?
Morgan wasn't a runner, so what do you mean?
 

JoeSchmoe

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Some of you have exceptionally short term memories. Makes me think that you were born this millenium or maybe even this decade. Fleck has recruited far higher ranked players on average than any coach since Holtz. Fleck has also won at a much higher and more consistent basis than any coach since then.
Why does his higher ranked players not win on the field?
 



Some guy

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I hope he lands at a place with smarter fans
I think all fans are generally pretty much the same. Most see everything and think it happens in a vacuum. Almost nothing happens in a vacuum.

They didn’t ask Athan to run again after he got his bell rung. Maybe there is a reason.
 

JoeSchmoe

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They have won more
Fleck has the highest winning % since Bierman

Lol
LOL. you're kidding right. his recruits haven't won a game against a team with a winning record. keep drinking the kool aid. If he is such great recruiter how can you explain this year's results. These are ALL his kids that he recruited and coached up. So which is it...he sucks at recruiting or sucks at development? All the skill players he has had except for this year, were already on campus when he took the job.
 


Gophers_4life

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I can agree with alot of your post.

Honestly, I still feel like Glen Mason was a pretty good coach and if we are being honest, he is the one that turned Gopher football around from being a terrible doormat to a respectable Big Ten program.

I feel like at the time Fleck was one of the better up and coming coaching candidates out there, so I don't agree with you on that part.

What boggles my mind is the fact that at Western Michigan, Fleck was seen as a pretty darn good recruiter. Since he got here, he has been at the best average, but mostly, not good.
This and his in game coaching are his two biggest downfalls IMO.

Still think it's foolish to move on from him. And if I am being honest, I didn't like it when they fired Glen Mason either. Maybe it was just growing up watching some terrible Gopher football in the 80's that make me appreciate these guys more than most.
Think about that, I believe, JMS, CrAB, Tanner Morgan, probably some others all committed to play for Fleck at WMU.
 

csom_1991

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I can agree with alot of your post.

Honestly, I still feel like Glen Mason was a pretty good coach and if we are being honest, he is the one that turned Gopher football around from being a terrible doormat to a respectable Big Ten program.
Mason was out after he openly flirted with OSU - even Minnesota has enough pride to not accept that. The meltdown vs. TT sealed the deal but the reality was that Mason was NEVER given the tools that PJ was given. Also, and this is huge in my opinion - because of Mason, Minnesota was getting weekly mentioned during NFL broadcasts as the place for RBs with Barber, Maroney, and Gary Russell. We had a true identity that Mason could have capitalized on IF he actually cared about recruiting or had more money for assistants proficient at it. For me, that was the sin of Brewster - he wanted to install the spread offense to fix the problem that we didn't have - our problem was on defense under Mason. As a result, we lost our identity as a program which is really our only chance to ever win a title. I take Northwestern's early adoption of the spread as their one and only chance to actually compete. Once we settle for 'out recruiting, coaching up, and running the same scheme as everyone else but we will do it better' - we will never win anything meaningful. For me, that is the problem with PJ - there is nothing unique other than his cult of personality and thus far, they is not good enough to move the Gophers to the next level and the excuses are all used up. These are his guys and next year is likely to be a giant step backwards - not forwards.
 

Ignore This Post

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My biggest complaint with PJ is keeping the starters in during a blowout. I would rather he put others in to give them more experience.

I don't get the pessimism about next year. Two tough games for sure, but after that there isn't one team to fear. Last year at this time we thought MSU would be a tough game in 2022.
 

btowngopher

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LOL. you're kidding right. his recruits haven't won a game against a team with a winning record. keep drinking the kool aid. If he is such great recruiter how can you explain this year's results. These are ALL his kids that he recruited and coached up. So which is it...he sucks at recruiting or sucks at development? All the skill players he has had except for this year, were already on campus when he took the job.
Wtf are you even talking about?
 






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