Is Fleck’s agent actively looking for other coaching jobs?

[Some guy]

Nope. I never made a statement about that, either way, and will continue to not make that statement.

That’s bold

You won’t even say if you think guys would be better or worse than fleck?
Then why would anyone possibly discuss coaches with you. I’m out

You think it is very easy for Mn to get a coach better than fleck. But you’re unwilling to name one coach that would fit that criteria

 

[Gophers_4life]

Suit yourself.

You like to try to dictate terms of discussion, and I won't play your game.

 

[Some guy]

Suit yourself.

You like to try to dictate terms of discussion, and I won't play your game.

Yeah I do.
You want to discuss coaching changes without actually naming any coaches. That’s lame

If you aren’t willing to agree to my term of talking about coaches when discussing coaches…that’s not me setting the terms, that’s you

 

[Gophers_4life]

I only want to discuss the idea of if it's reasonable to fire Fleck. That's it. I don't have any interest in looking through who is coaching where and trying to actually identify candidates.

I can see that would be a fun subject for some, but I'm not there, for myself right now.

 

[Gophers_4life]

You think it is very easy for Mn to get a coach better than fleck.

Where did I say "it would be very easy for MN to get a coach better than Fleck"?

Dude.

When I say something like "I don't agree that it's impossible that the U could hire an upgrade over fleck" ..... I really don't understand how you can misrepresent that as me saying "it would be very easy ...".

Those are opposite statements.

 

[Gophers_4life]

I don't think it would be easy.

I do think there is a significant chance that the next would be a downgrade over Fleck.



It's really no different than anything else in life:
- do you accept what you have/where you are, and keep going on like that
- or are you driven enough (for whatever reasons) to risk what you have and try for something better?

Not saying either is the "correct" choice.

 

[Cobra]

Luke Fickell would be my primary target.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Luke Fickell would be my primary target.

Why would he come here?

He already took Cincinnati to the CFP. I think he's waiting for Ohio State or that level.

 

[Cobra]

Maybe he wants to be challenged. Maybe he wants to coach in the big ten. Maybe OSU is off the table. Who knows?
I'd sure find out.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

On Recruiting: Used the 247 composite standings for MN.

Year-overall -B1G
2018: 38 --- 7
2019: 45 --- 10
2020: 38 --- 9
2021: 38 --- 8
2022: 49 --- 14
2023: 42 --- 9

So in the last 6 years of recruiting (2023 still in progress), the best overall ranking is 38th and the best conference ranking is 7th.

but last year was the lowest-ranked class of the Fleck era, and the in-progress class of 23 is 4th out of his 6 full classes. not the trend you would like to see.

 

[GophersWin!]

Why would he come here?

He already took Cincinnati to the CFP. I think he's waiting for Ohio State or that level.

I Think jerry kill has another try in him.

 

[GopherGod]

Maybe he wants to be challenged. Maybe he wants to coach in the big ten. Maybe OSU is off the table. Who knows?
I'd sure find out.

He already turned down Michigan State when they hired Tucker. That is a better job than Minnesota, he wouldn’t even consider this job is my guess.

 

[Some guy]

On Recruiting: Used the 247 composite standings for MN.

Year-overall -B1G
2018: 38 --- 7
2019: 45 --- 10
2020: 38 --- 9
2021: 38 --- 8
2022: 49 --- 14
2023: 42 --- 9

So in the last 6 years of recruiting (2023 still in progress), the best overall ranking is 38th and the best conference ranking is 7th.

but last year was the lowest-ranked class of the Fleck era, and the in-progress class of 23 is 4th out of his 6 full classes. not the trend you would like to see.

At the same time it’s much harder to gauge in this day and age. The difference between being the 12 class in the conference and the 4th class in the conference can be as little as taking 3 high school recruits instead of 3 transfers

 

[howeda7]

I only want to discuss the idea of if it's reasonable to fire Fleck. That's it. I don't have any interest in looking through who is coaching where and trying to actually identify candidates.

I can see that would be a fun subject for some, but I'm not there, for myself right now.

It's not reasonable at this time. 2 years from now, maybe.

 

[Some guy]

It's not reasonable at this time. 2 years from now, maybe.

It’s never reasonable to discuss firing a guy if you are unwilling to discuss what comes next

 

[howeda7]

It’s never reasonable to discuss firing a guy if you are unwilling to discuss what comes next

True. You always need to ask yourself 3 questions:

Can you easily name 3 realistic candidates to replace this person?

Are they pretty clearly an upgrade?

Is the person you're firing likely to get an equivalent or better job within one year?

If the answers aren't Yes, Yes, and No you're probably making a mistake. Right now the answers are No, No and Yes.

 

[Some guy]

True. You always need to ask yourself 3 questions:

Can you easily name 3 realistic candidates to replace this person?

Are they pretty clearly an upgrade?

Is the person you're firing likely to get an equivalent or better job within one year?

If the answers aren't Yes, Yes, and No you're probably making a mistake. Right now the answers are No, No and Yes.

If Nebraska had hired PJ Fleck, on paper, I’d argue that’s a better hire than Rhule

 

[Gopherchase]

Whether anyone likes it or not, it is probably the right time for him to move on IF he wants to be at a big time school in the future. He's 42, been at MN for six years, and has probably maxed out what he can do here. The issue he has in the immediate future is the schedule in 2023. Michigan, Ohio State, at Iowa, and at North Carolina. The Gophers could play well in all four games and easily lose. Not to mention any other game on the schedule in the Big Ten. The losses in the senior class are not big in numbers but are high in impact. Fleck could find himself having to rebuild his own program. I am not sure that he would want to do that or should do that to move up the ladder. He would be better off rebuilding another program that might have a higher ceiling. Especially considering that USC and possibly UCLA coming into the league. Building up a second program will bring credibility and possibly get him into an "elite" program by the time he is fifty. Arizona State and Colorado will be able to climb the ladder faster in the new Pac 12. There will be other openings.

Boosters at big time programs are not gonna buy into FAMILY and all of that BS. He’s going to be our bobo until we decide otherwise.

 

[Gophers_4life]

It's not reasonable at this time. 2 years from now, maybe.

I set a clear line in the sand. Lost tomorrow, bowl game is meaningless, then lose again to Iowa and Wisc next year while ending up 5-7.

If I was emperor of the U, I'd decree that he be fired. No matter the cost -- literal and figurative.

I don't have any name to give for who I'd prefer. Those are two separate things.


But the fact of the matter is that Minnesota(ns) is(are) way too cheap to pay $7M to fire a guy. So that alone likely prevents it. Nothing to do with merit.

 

[Gophers_4life]

True. You always need to ask yourself 3 questions:

Can you easily name 3 realistic candidates to replace this person?

Are they pretty clearly an upgrade?

Is the person you're firing likely to get an equivalent or better job within one year?

If the answers aren't Yes, Yes, and No you're probably making a mistake. Right now the answers are No, No and Yes.

This is exactly how it went for hiring Brewster and hiring Kill, right?

 

[Some guy]

This is exactly how it went for hiring Brewster and hiring Kill, right?

If you aren’t willing to discuss who to replace him with, then you aren’t ready for a new coach

 

[gopherbadgerman]

This is exactly how it went for hiring Brewster and hiring Kill, right?

Totally different situations.

 

[PMWinSTP]

LOL. you're kidding right. his recruits haven't won a game against a team with a winning record. keep drinking the kool aid. If he is such great recruiter how can you explain this year's results. These are ALL his kids that he recruited and coached up. So which is it...he sucks at recruiting or sucks at development? All the skill players he has had except for this year, were already on campus when he took the job.

Living up to your moniker.

 

[PMWinSTP]

- Two games in which we have literally no shot (@OSU, Mich)
- One game in which we have almost no shot (@UNC)
- One game in which we have little shot against a rival we haven't beaten since the Obama administration (@IA)

Now, if you assume we'll go 0-4 in those games (I certainly do), that leaves 8 others. Even supposing we're favored in all 8 of them (no sure thing), given our success rate as favorites this year we'll be lucky to win 6.

Striving to eke out 6 wins in year 7 under Fleck - I know that's what I was hoping for when I stood in Tampa and watched us dismantle a top-10 SEC team almost 3 years ago.

I am not impressed with North Carolina. Nice record but in a weak division in a pretty weak conference.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I set a clear line in the sand. Lost tomorrow, bowl game is meaningless, then lose again to Iowa and Wisc next year while ending up 5-7.

If I was emperor of the U, I'd decree that he be fired. No matter the cost -- literal and figurative.

I don't have any name to give for who I'd prefer. Those are two separate things.


But the fact of the matter is that Minnesota(ns) is(are) way too cheap to pay $7M to fire a guy. So that alone likely prevents it. Nothing to do with merit.

Firing a HC and hiring their replacement are two separate things? Good grief.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Firing a HC and hiring their replacement are two separate things?

Thanks for asking. Yes, that's correct.

- the decision to fire Mason was its own decision. It was made. Then, eventually, Maturi decided to hire Tim Brewster
- the decision to fire Brewster was its own decision. It was made. Then, eventually, Maturi decided to hire Jerry Kill
- the decision to fire Claeys was its own decision, and we know the reason why (the scandal, the Tweet, etc.). It was made. Then, Coyle quickly moved to hire Fleck.


I do absolutely believe that Coyle already had Fleck as his #1 candidate, if the opportunity were to arise. He may even have tried to hire him at Syracuse, but that school was not on "the list".


So while that certainly can be a thing (AD having a guy in mind, if the situation arises), they are still completely separate decisions. Both have to be approved by the president, but unless there are strong public reactions for some reason, the prez is likely to defer to the AD I would assume.

 

[I'm A Maroon 2!]

Wow Fleck couldn't even beat out Rhule. Another loss for PJ and his agent.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Maybe he wants to be challenged. Maybe he wants to coach in the big ten. Maybe OSU is off the table. Who knows?
I'd sure find out.

Cincinnati is already paying Fickell $5M per year through 2028.

There are only a few programs that will be able to significantly better that, and Minnesota sure ain't one of them. And that's also paying a $7M buyout to Fleck if fired after next season.

 

[Tucker32]

If you aren’t willing to discuss who to replace him with, then you aren’t ready for a new coach

Let’s be honest. You will never be ready to discuss someone other than PJ as you are not even ready to discuss what PJ could simply do better. I don’t want him fired because that means the bottom dropped out for us. I want him to demonstrate some growth as a coach, without the same mistakes repeatedly. There are a ton of positives, but too many limits that get in the way continually of taking next step.

I do want more than what he’s given us because he has been an average coach at best in a terrible division. After today he likely falls behind Brohm (division champ), Bielema, Ferentz. If Nebraska does hire Ruhl he’s likely behind him (at best he’s even). He’s not better than Fitz, but as a program has all kinds of advantages so we should be able to keep beating NW. That leaves us with a coach ahead of whoever WI hires? How long does that last?

His results don’t demonstrate he is a long-term answer but I hope he takes a step in the right direction today with a win over WI

 

[Some guy]

Let’s be honest. You will never be ready to discuss someone other than PJ as you are not even ready to discuss what PJ could simply do better. I don’t want him fired because that means the bottom dropped out for us. I want him to demonstrate some growth as a coach, without the same mistakes repeatedly. There are a ton of positives, but too many limits that get in the way continually of taking next step.

I do want more than what he’s given us because he has been an average coach at best in a terrible division. After today he likely falls behind Brohm (division champ), Bielema, Ferentz. If Nebraska does hire Ruhl he’s likely behind him (at best he’s even). He’s not better than Fitz, but as a program has all kinds of advantages so we should be able to keep beating NW. That leaves us with a coach ahead of whoever WI hires? How long does that last?

His results don’t demonstrate he is a long-term answer but I hope he takes a step in the right direction today with a win over WI

Let’s be honest, you haven’t read my posts as I’ve criticized him quite a bit

I criticized him last year for the offense when everyone thought it was Sanford. I said it was more fleck’s offense than Sanford’s.
I criticized him for bringing back KC. I would be okay letting go both the OC and WR coach. I wish he would bring in someone more innovative as OC and really turn it over to him.
I disagree with him on punt and punt return strategy.
I think he undervalues a timeout over delay of games In punting situations.

I think he has a huge recruiting gap at the WR position.



I also think that he has won more than any coach since the 1960s
I also think if you fire him you don’t get a coach as good at Rhule to come to Minnesota…and id rather have fleck than Rhule. Fleck’s Minnesota is pretty similar to Rhule’s Baylor but with a larger sample size. Fleck’s western Michigan was better than Rhule’s temple. Of the last 3 coaches at Baylor Rhule is the only one who didn’t win a conference title. I think if you fire fleck you are either going to replace him with a known downgrade or a complete unknown. And our success is a bit disappointing the past two years but it’s not so disappointing that I want to downgrade or hire a complete unknown. I would rather hire the unknown as a new OC.